Class stun for Warden

Skander · August 2018

As title, ultimates aren't counted over "class stuns"

_Ahala_ · August 2018

No

Lol... I think I misunderstood the poll... my vote should be yes... I meant to say warden needs a stun and permafrost doesn’t fill that void

We have one “class stun”... it costs 200 ult so it’s not really on demand (no the random bear heavy attacks don’t count as they are uncontrollable)... furthermore choosing permafrost means you lose the 8% mag you would have gotten from northern storm...

If we are counting ult stuns in class stuns then nb has 4 stuns 1 root, dk has 4 stuns 2 roots 1 pull, templar has 2 stuns 0 roots 1 eclipse (useless against good players), sorc has 4 stuns 1 root 1 silence, and warden has 1 stun 2 roots 1 pull... its really simplistic to list them like this because different stuns have different ease of access and different effectiveness...

If we are counting non ult ccs then nb has 2 stuns 1 root, dk has 3 stuns 1 root 1 pull, templar has 1 stun and eclipse, sorc has 3 stuns 1 pull and negate, and warden has no stun (lol) 2 roots and 1 pull (am I’m kind of cheating on the soft cc for magden cause one of the roots is also the pull and on a awkward trap ability and the other root scales on health and causes you to lose one of your main pve dots)

I think this gets the point across that templar and especially warden are gimped for cc... but their really is no point in arguing this seeing as zos has already put it on their to do list to give magden more cc next patch

Kadoin · August 2018

I honestly don't see how it would change much, considering CC immunity exists. In fact, it would make it easier for me to block dawnbreaker combo that I block 99.9% of the time already. From my perspective using mag warden in PvP, I use Sellistrix helm anyway for the NBs out there

It works reliably enough on singles (and especially zergs at the breeches in my ice wall combined with winterborn proc, and also in BGs), that I would never slot an additional skill to gain a stun.

Skander · August 2018

You can't solo on magden anyway

Kadoin wrote: »

I honestly don't see how it would change much, considering CC immunity exists. In fact, it would make it easier for me to block dawnbreaker combo that I block 99.9% of the time already. From my perspective using mag warden in PvP, I use Sellistrix helm anyway for the NBs out there It works reliably enough on singles (and especially zergs at the breeches in my ice wall combined with winterborn proc, and also in BGs), that I would never slot an additional skill to gain a stun.

Saying stuns don't change much becouse there's cc immunity. It's saying that damage doesn't change much becouse there's healing

Kadoin · August 2018

Skander wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

I honestly don't see how it would change much, considering CC immunity exists. In fact, it would make it easier for me to block dawnbreaker combo that I block 99.9% of the time already. From my perspective using mag warden in PvP, I use Sellistrix helm anyway for the NBs out there It works reliably enough on singles (and especially zergs at the breeches in my ice wall combined with winterborn proc, and also in BGs), that I would never slot an additional skill to gain a stun.

Saying stuns don't change much becouse there's cc immunity. It's saying that damage doesn't change much becouse there's healing

I'm saying it won't mean much in PvP because you will only give the person CC immunity before you actually burst them down. How will that be useful? You can claim it will be, but we will see if they add a stun. An immobilize would be better in my opinion, at least for PvP, on both mag templar and mag warden, and would be the sensible direction for the dev team to take.

For me, a stun is worthless when most targets are CC immune or simply will be out of range most of the time during combat.

If you want a preview of how useful a stun would be, use a sorc and make sure to look at rune cage when you pvp someone. Even in a 1v1 its not often you can use it. Also note how fast the opponent breaks free and blocks. In that situation, its a waste of a slot. Where Sellistrix is useful is NOT the fact that it is a stun alone, it's that its AoE, can't be dodged, and its also unpredictable to both you and the opponent. Without predictability, no one can be prepared 100% for its stun and ready to block, but it also means you can't show any signs you are ready to burst your opponent down. See how unpredictability is actually a STRENGTH in real combat? If the stun isn't random, it will have little to no use versus anyone with a brain. If it is random, both you and your opponent have to be on guard and ready to either seize victory or defend when it comes.

Tell me how a warden class skill would replace that element of unpredictability? You and I both know ZOS doesn't care about interesting or non-rotational mechanics. We both know that the hypothetical stun or whatever they do with warden won't and instead eventually lead to you being read and that's the end of you on a mag templar or mag warden in PvP, unless you are running a build with god-like healing and in that case you won't be killing anyone and the stun is still useless because you will either be in a zerg or on the defense all the time!

Clarified enough?

Skander · August 2018

You can't solo on magden anyway

Kadoin wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

I honestly don't see how it would change much, considering CC immunity exists. In fact, it would make it easier for me to block dawnbreaker combo that I block 99.9% of the time already. From my perspective using mag warden in PvP, I use Sellistrix helm anyway for the NBs out there It works reliably enough on singles (and especially zergs at the breeches in my ice wall combined with winterborn proc, and also in BGs), that I would never slot an additional skill to gain a stun.

Saying stuns don't change much becouse there's cc immunity. It's saying that damage doesn't change much becouse there's healing

I'm saying it won't mean much in PvP because you will only give the person CC immunity before you actually burst them down. How will that be useful? You can claim it will be, but we will see if they add a stun. An immobilize would be better in my opinion, at least for PvP, on both mag templar and mag warden, and would be the sensible direction for the dev team to take.

For me, a stun is worthless when most targets are CC immune or simply will be out of range most of the time during combat.

If you want a preview of how useful a stun would be, use a sorc and make sure to look at rune cage when you pvp someone. Even in a 1v1 its not often you can use it. Also note how fast the opponent breaks free and blocks. In that situation, its a waste of a slot. Where Sellistrix is useful is NOT the fact that it is a stun alone, it's that its AoE, can't be dodged, and its also unpredictable to both you and the opponent. Without predictability, no one can be prepared 100% for its stun and ready to block, but it also means you can't show any signs you are ready to burst your opponent down. See how unpredictability is actually a STRENGTH in real combat? If the stun isn't random, it will have little to no use versus anyone with a brain. If it is random, both you and your opponent have to be on guard and ready to either seize victory or defend when it comes.

Tell me how a warden class skill would replace that element of unpredictability? You and I both know ZOS doesn't care about interesting or non-rotational mechanics. We both know that the hypothetical stun or whatever they do with warden won't and instead eventually lead to you being read and that's the end of you on a mag templar or mag warden in PvP, unless you are running a build with god-like healing and in that case you won't be killing anyone and the stun is still useless because you will either be in a zerg or on the defense all the time!

Clarified enough?

You can't kill anyone without stunning them.

Aedaryl · August 2018

Yes

Every one and every build should have access to a good stun.

Kadoin · August 2018

Skander wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

I honestly don't see how it would change much, considering CC immunity exists. In fact, it would make it easier for me to block dawnbreaker combo that I block 99.9% of the time already. From my perspective using mag warden in PvP, I use Sellistrix helm anyway for the NBs out there It works reliably enough on singles (and especially zergs at the breeches in my ice wall combined with winterborn proc, and also in BGs), that I would never slot an additional skill to gain a stun.

Saying stuns don't change much becouse there's cc immunity. It's saying that damage doesn't change much becouse there's healing

I'm saying it won't mean much in PvP because you will only give the person CC immunity before you actually burst them down. How will that be useful? You can claim it will be, but we will see if they add a stun. An immobilize would be better in my opinion, at least for PvP, on both mag templar and mag warden, and would be the sensible direction for the dev team to take.

For me, a stun is worthless when most targets are CC immune or simply will be out of range most of the time during combat.

If you want a preview of how useful a stun would be, use a sorc and make sure to look at rune cage when you pvp someone. Even in a 1v1 its not often you can use it. Also note how fast the opponent breaks free and blocks. In that situation, its a waste of a slot. Where Sellistrix is useful is NOT the fact that it is a stun alone, it's that its AoE, can't be dodged, and its also unpredictable to both you and the opponent. Without predictability, no one can be prepared 100% for its stun and ready to block, but it also means you can't show any signs you are ready to burst your opponent down. See how unpredictability is actually a STRENGTH in real combat? If the stun isn't random, it will have little to no use versus anyone with a brain. If it is random, both you and your opponent have to be on guard and ready to either seize victory or defend when it comes.

Tell me how a warden class skill would replace that element of unpredictability? You and I both know ZOS doesn't care about interesting or non-rotational mechanics. We both know that the hypothetical stun or whatever they do with warden won't and instead eventually lead to you being read and that's the end of you on a mag templar or mag warden in PvP, unless you are running a build with god-like healing and in that case you won't be killing anyone and the stun is still useless because you will either be in a zerg or on the defense all the time!

Clarified enough?

You can't kill anyone without stunning them.

Completely missed the point, but whatever. You're free to believe that it would be a great addition and change things. I'll reference this post when it doesn't and/or makes the class worse. It will be interesting to see what skill they add the stun to and what they do to "balance" it. My prediction? It won't end well.

If you seriously believe warden will somehow be as good as it was at launch because a stun is added, even though we now how a massive dump of defensive sets that can completely negate any damage a warden can do and players are also not as stupid and have gotten better across the board, then you are going to learn the hard way that won't be the case. Chances are if you need a stun to win every fight in Cyro or BG, you're sitting in heavy anyway and your damage must be a joke. A stun won't change that.

The Elder Scrolls Online

Class stun for Warden

Class stun for Warden 37 votes