Healthy Offering Mechanics - NB heal skill
Halke
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I main a NB healer. I love it. When I heard that they were getting a heal that was more targeted I was so happy. Then I used it. For those of you that don't know, let me count the reasons I hate the implementation of this attempt at a skill.
1) It is /not/ a smart heal. It must be targeted.
2) You hurt yourself to heal with it, even if you do not heal what you wanted to heal.
2) In combat people are moving, stacked on each other, and damage comes and goes faster than candy that is left within my reach.
3) Someone decided that this heal should target bloody everything. That scamp your friend brought? Targetable. That NPC that can't even die? Targetable.
4) You can only heal yourself with it if you have somehow found a place with no other targets.
WHY!? WHY DID YOU DO THIS!? Bad ZoS.
I -never- want to heal an NPC. I -never- want to heal a combat pet. I don't want only one single target heal in this game to be the only heal that ISN'T A SMART HEAL!
This skill can be so great. Especially by giving us access to Minor Mending. It is the implementation that is so wrong. I am even alright with it staying something that I have to target so I can stack that extra HoT onto my tank and proceed to ignore them. But at the very least, please trim down the fat of the excess targetables. This skill should be our Breath of Life, our Twilight Matriarch, our Cauterize. Please make it something that is actually useful. By hurting the healer it already requires some skill to use, we don't need RNGeesus making things worse.
, your friendly neighborhood Tal'Raja
1) It is /not/ a smart heal. It must be targeted.
2) You hurt yourself to heal with it, even if you do not heal what you wanted to heal.
2) In combat people are moving, stacked on each other, and damage comes and goes faster than candy that is left within my reach.
3) Someone decided that this heal should target bloody everything. That scamp your friend brought? Targetable. That NPC that can't even die? Targetable.
4) You can only heal yourself with it if you have somehow found a place with no other targets.
WHY!? WHY DID YOU DO THIS!? Bad ZoS.
I -never- want to heal an NPC. I -never- want to heal a combat pet. I don't want only one single target heal in this game to be the only heal that ISN'T A SMART HEAL!
This skill can be so great. Especially by giving us access to Minor Mending. It is the implementation that is so wrong. I am even alright with it staying something that I have to target so I can stack that extra HoT onto my tank and proceed to ignore them. But at the very least, please trim down the fat of the excess targetables. This skill should be our Breath of Life, our Twilight Matriarch, our Cauterize. Please make it something that is actually useful. By hurting the healer it already requires some skill to use, we don't need RNGeesus making things worse.
, your friendly neighborhood Tal'Raja 4
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Halke✭✭✭Hey guys! We got some looks into the upcoming patch, and being the dorky NB healer that I am, one of the first things I noticed was the change to this skill. An instant heal!? Oh my! I do have a question/concern though that you guys (esp if one of you beautiful people that got to see things manages to see this) may be able to answer: Is this skill a smart heal now or is it still a target heal? I really, really want to be able to use this, but if it is a target heal still it just isn't useful in practice.0
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exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Unlike all other smart heals however, it cant heal the caster. This was not something i expected when the change was announced.0 -
Halke✭✭✭exeeter702 wrote: »Unlike all other smart heals however, it cant heal the caster. This was not something i expected when the change was announced.
Wha!? I trusted them so I didn't test that. Odd. Maybe a coding issue and not intended?0 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭exeeter702 wrote: »Unlike all other smart heals however, it cant heal the caster. This was not something i expected when the change was announced.
Wha!? I trusted them so I didn't test that. Odd. Maybe a coding issue and not intended?
I was expecting to see it fixed this pts, but ill have to check myself.0 -
Halke✭✭✭@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom
Necro-ing this over putting up a new thread. Could we get information as to why Healthy Offering can no longer heal the caster? There are so many places I would love to be able to use it to save myself but that is no longer an option and I am just curious as to why. I loved the skill but in most content it has lost a place on my bar because Combat Prayer does the same job but better.
A good example is in vCR. I play as our team's kite healer. Out there a lot of damage comes in. I have so many HoTs up, but having a burst heal I could use could save my life so many times over.0 -
Oumalakasha✭✭✭It can no longer heal the caster because it is a strong instant heal at the cost of a weaker DoT. It would be a bit OP to cast on oneself unless they increased the DoT damage if cast on self (could be a morph). I understand where you're coming from though.
I posted this in the Discord, but I think it would be cool if Shrewd Offering changed the self DoT to magic damage instead of oblivion. I can spam the hell out of Healthy Offering in PvE, but in PvP with Battle Spirit affected my heal size but not the DoT, it feels much more punishing. I still like to use it though because it ignores LoS, but I have to be very careful with it.Edited by Oumalakasha on August 20, 2018 6:31PM0 -
Halke✭✭✭But BoL is a strong instant heal that doesn't even need to be facing the person you are saving and doesn't hurt the caster. I guess to me it is just weird that NB is the only class with a burst heal (sorry Wardens) that can't heal the caster. BoL, Matriarch, Stonefist thing and fire balls, all heal the caster if needed. Hrm, I guess I don't have to agree or like their reasoning, but thank you for giving it to me.0
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Oumalakasha✭✭✭But BoL is a strong instant heal that doesn't even need to be facing the person you are saving and doesn't hurt the caster. I guess to me it is just weird that NB is the only class with a burst heal (sorry Wardens) that can't heal the caster. BoL, Matriarch, Stonefist thing and fire balls, all heal the caster if needed. Hrm, I guess I don't have to agree or like their reasoning, but thank you for giving it to me.
Well I should have said that it just my guess to why it is not self-castable. But I do understand where you are coming from. In Cyrodiil I have been slotting both Healthy Offering and Symbiosis, which puts me down 2 slots. My bars are extremely tight and the DoT from Healthy Offering goes through Healing Ward since it's Oblivion damage, so I have to be extremely careful about my positioning. I have attempted to use Blessing of Restoration as a burst heal but it still doesn't do that much. It is a pretty big weakness to the build because it puts me at a much higher risk to burst.Edited by Oumalakasha on August 20, 2018 7:22PM0 -
Halke✭✭✭Oumalakasha wrote: »But BoL is a strong instant heal that doesn't even need to be facing the person you are saving and doesn't hurt the caster. I guess to me it is just weird that NB is the only class with a burst heal (sorry Wardens) that can't heal the caster. BoL, Matriarch, Stonefist thing and fire balls, all heal the caster if needed. Hrm, I guess I don't have to agree or like their reasoning, but thank you for giving it to me.
Well I should have said that it just my guess to why it is not self-castable. But I do understand where you are coming from. In Cyrodiil I have been slotting both Healthy Offering and Symbiosis, which puts me down 2 slots. My bars are extremely tight and the DoT from Healthy Offering goes through Healing Ward since it's Oblivion damage, so I have to be extremely careful about my positioning. I have attempted to use Blessing of Restoration as a burst heal but it still doesn't do that much. It is a pretty big weakness to the build because it puts me at a much higher risk to burst.
Yeah and my issue with it comes from a purely PvE point of view. It still only heals one target unlike BoL. It makes no sense to me to hurt it by making it unable to heal the caster.0 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Oumalakasha wrote: »But BoL is a strong instant heal that doesn't even need to be facing the person you are saving and doesn't hurt the caster. I guess to me it is just weird that NB is the only class with a burst heal (sorry Wardens) that can't heal the caster. BoL, Matriarch, Stonefist thing and fire balls, all heal the caster if needed. Hrm, I guess I don't have to agree or like their reasoning, but thank you for giving it to me.
Well I should have said that it just my guess to why it is not self-castable. But I do understand where you are coming from. In Cyrodiil I have been slotting both Healthy Offering and Symbiosis, which puts me down 2 slots. My bars are extremely tight and the DoT from Healthy Offering goes through Healing Ward since it's Oblivion damage, so I have to be extremely careful about my positioning. I have attempted to use Blessing of Restoration as a burst heal but it still doesn't do that much. It is a pretty big weakness to the build because it puts me at a much higher risk to burst.
Yeah and my issue with it comes from a purely PvE point of view. It still only heals one target unlike BoL. It makes no sense to me to hurt it by making it unable to heal the caster.
After discovering how insanely strong the burst heal is, I understand completely why it cant be cast on self. That would be completely broken. The heal is not goverend by magicka resource for its continued use. If you allow it to he cast on self, you then create scenarios where the nb literally becomes immortal so long as you can garuntee no other applicable targets are with the 180 range. In pve this has very severe implications for group content and in pvp, and again i should stress in no cp this thing crits for 12k easy, you would create obscenely tanky magblades, since the price of the spell is negated by its own heal. Im not sure if your looking at the heal from a non healer setup, perhaps a health based tank or whatnot where the heal is very mediocre, but on a mag build not to mention an actual healer build, it is objectively the strongest burst heal in the game in regards to tooltip values.
The spell needs to stay the way it is.Edited by exeeter702 on August 21, 2018 4:43AM2 -
SickDuck✭✭✭✭✭exeeter702 wrote: »Oumalakasha wrote: »But BoL is a strong instant heal that doesn't even need to be facing the person you are saving and doesn't hurt the caster. I guess to me it is just weird that NB is the only class with a burst heal (sorry Wardens) that can't heal the caster. BoL, Matriarch, Stonefist thing and fire balls, all heal the caster if needed. Hrm, I guess I don't have to agree or like their reasoning, but thank you for giving it to me.
Well I should have said that it just my guess to why it is not self-castable. But I do understand where you are coming from. In Cyrodiil I have been slotting both Healthy Offering and Symbiosis, which puts me down 2 slots. My bars are extremely tight and the DoT from Healthy Offering goes through Healing Ward since it's Oblivion damage, so I have to be extremely careful about my positioning. I have attempted to use Blessing of Restoration as a burst heal but it still doesn't do that much. It is a pretty big weakness to the build because it puts me at a much higher risk to burst.
Yeah and my issue with it comes from a purely PvE point of view. It still only heals one target unlike BoL. It makes no sense to me to hurt it by making it unable to heal the caster.
After discovering how insanely strong the burst heal is, I understand completely why it cant be cast on self. That would be completely broken. The heal is not goverend by magicka resource for its continued use. If you allow it to he cast on self, you then create scenarios where the nb literally becomes immortal so long as you can garuntee no other applicable targets are with the 180 range. In pve this has very severe implications for group content and in pvp, and again i should stress in no cp this thing crits for 12k easy, you would create obscenely tanky magblades, since the price of the spell is negated by its own heal. Im not sure if your looking at the heal from a non healer setup, perhaps a health based tank or whatnot where the heal is very mediocre, but on a mag build not to mention an actual healer build, it is objectively the strongest burst heal in the game in regards to tooltip values.
The spell needs to stay the way it is.
But if you spam it the DOTs add up significantly. Even in PVE it will diminish the heal, in PVP much more.Holdviola - Khira'de Regalo - Lélekvadász - Used To Be An Adventurer - Zetor - Does-Not-Give-A-Duck - Lord Sugar - Tenar Arha - Da'rinka - Violent Moon - Extreme Runner0 -
Oumalakasha✭✭✭exeeter702 wrote: »Oumalakasha wrote: »But BoL is a strong instant heal that doesn't even need to be facing the person you are saving and doesn't hurt the caster. I guess to me it is just weird that NB is the only class with a burst heal (sorry Wardens) that can't heal the caster. BoL, Matriarch, Stonefist thing and fire balls, all heal the caster if needed. Hrm, I guess I don't have to agree or like their reasoning, but thank you for giving it to me.
Well I should have said that it just my guess to why it is not self-castable. But I do understand where you are coming from. In Cyrodiil I have been slotting both Healthy Offering and Symbiosis, which puts me down 2 slots. My bars are extremely tight and the DoT from Healthy Offering goes through Healing Ward since it's Oblivion damage, so I have to be extremely careful about my positioning. I have attempted to use Blessing of Restoration as a burst heal but it still doesn't do that much. It is a pretty big weakness to the build because it puts me at a much higher risk to burst.
Yeah and my issue with it comes from a purely PvE point of view. It still only heals one target unlike BoL. It makes no sense to me to hurt it by making it unable to heal the caster.
After discovering how insanely strong the burst heal is, I understand completely why it cant be cast on self. That would be completely broken. The heal is not goverend by magicka resource for its continued use. If you allow it to he cast on self, you then create scenarios where the nb literally becomes immortal so long as you can garuntee no other applicable targets are with the 180 range. In pve this has very severe implications for group content and in pvp, and again i should stress in no cp this thing crits for 12k easy, you would create obscenely tanky magblades, since the price of the spell is negated by its own heal. Im not sure if your looking at the heal from a non healer setup, perhaps a health based tank or whatnot where the heal is very mediocre, but on a mag build not to mention an actual healer build, it is objectively the strongest burst heal in the game in regards to tooltip values.
The spell needs to stay the way it is.
But if you spam it the DOTs add up significantly. Even in PVE it will diminish the heal, in PVP much more.
The value is being able to spam it without denting your magicka pool. In PvE the DoT is a joke when you have HoTs rolling on yourself. I can spam it 8+ times without really having to worry if I'm standing in my Refreshing Path with Funnel Health and Regen going. In PvP the cost is definitely quite noticeable, but to me it's still absolutely worth slotting. I'll usually alternate between Offering and Symbiosis HA for single target burst heals. Symbiosis also has some nice interactions with Siphoning Attacks to help sustain health.1 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭exeeter702 wrote: »Oumalakasha wrote: »But BoL is a strong instant heal that doesn't even need to be facing the person you are saving and doesn't hurt the caster. I guess to me it is just weird that NB is the only class with a burst heal (sorry Wardens) that can't heal the caster. BoL, Matriarch, Stonefist thing and fire balls, all heal the caster if needed. Hrm, I guess I don't have to agree or like their reasoning, but thank you for giving it to me.
Well I should have said that it just my guess to why it is not self-castable. But I do understand where you are coming from. In Cyrodiil I have been slotting both Healthy Offering and Symbiosis, which puts me down 2 slots. My bars are extremely tight and the DoT from Healthy Offering goes through Healing Ward since it's Oblivion damage, so I have to be extremely careful about my positioning. I have attempted to use Blessing of Restoration as a burst heal but it still doesn't do that much. It is a pretty big weakness to the build because it puts me at a much higher risk to burst.
Yeah and my issue with it comes from a purely PvE point of view. It still only heals one target unlike BoL. It makes no sense to me to hurt it by making it unable to heal the caster.
After discovering how insanely strong the burst heal is, I understand completely why it cant be cast on self. That would be completely broken. The heal is not goverend by magicka resource for its continued use. If you allow it to he cast on self, you then create scenarios where the nb literally becomes immortal so long as you can garuntee no other applicable targets are with the 180 range. In pve this has very severe implications for group content and in pvp, and again i should stress in no cp this thing crits for 12k easy, you would create obscenely tanky magblades, since the price of the spell is negated by its own heal. Im not sure if your looking at the heal from a non healer setup, perhaps a health based tank or whatnot where the heal is very mediocre, but on a mag build not to mention an actual healer build, it is objectively the strongest burst heal in the game in regards to tooltip values.
The spell needs to stay the way it is.
But if you spam it the DOTs add up significantly. Even in PVE it will diminish the heal, in PVP much more.
This is simply not true sorry. The most you will ever sustain is 8 stacks since you are only ever able to cast offering once a second, by the time the 9th stack would come, the first has already completed its 8 second length. In pve this is completely negligible with the NBs kit, managing 8 stacks is a cake walk between path and funnel health alone. On a healer in pve the price is practically non existent when you add in rapid regen, siphoning attacks. On a tank in pve its hardly a factor as well.
In pvp from experience, a properly built magblade healer without being pressured too hard can comfortably manage 4 stacks, 5 if they are really going hard with a resto ult / pot ready. If you were to be able to spam this on yourself ie fire it off every second, without a magivka cost, you are talking about literally having infinite uptime on 10k (at the least) health per second in pvp. Then lets take 8 stacks of the price per second, roughly 550ish x 8 meaning at worst you are looking at 4400ish per second. So not considering crits which sends the heal easily into the 18k region in cp, you are looking at 6 to 7k health a second, and by the time you no longer need to heal yourself, say having escaped pressure, the lingering dot can easy be slowly managed down since you will always heal for more than its cost.
Again... the skill needs to be left alone.2
