my take on DLC dungeons

ayu_fever · August 2018

dlc dungeons are paid content, and ZOS wants players to get their moneys worth out of them so they are going to be difficult dungeons. they ALWAYS are. theres not really anything wrong with that, excpet for normal mode. it HAS TO be nerfed.

by design, the dlc dungeons are very well made. kudos to ZOS!
they are made for hardcore groups and they leave behind the solo players like me.
i dread dlc dungeon releases, because it is content i have PAID FOR and either i cant enjoy it or cant complete it.
I BOUGHT IT, AND I EXPECT CUSTOMER SATISFACTION!

because of this, i just avoid all dlc dungeons like the plague.
i played WGT enough to get 5 pieces of spc and didnt care about the trait, i just rerolled them. that was the most painful struggle i have ever experienced in this game! i still have nightmares of the planar inhibitor!
all other dlc dungeons i complete on NORMAL just once to get the skill point, and even this is very stressful to do, and then NOPE NEVER GOING IN THERE AGAIN!!!

(this rant is about NORMAL MODE only. you have been warned.)

i dont expcet paid dlc dungeons to be as easy as fungal grotto 1.
we all would be disappointed and angry if that were the case (but at least there would be more players doing the daily random!).
dlc dungeons are designed for groups, guilds and hardcore players, not for solo players and PUGs.

my issue with dlc dungeons is even on normal mode they are just too much to deal with.
they are just way too hard!

there is no group communication (myself personally i refuse to voice chat with random punk kids who constantly use racial slurs, “build-shame,” hit a vape, have 2012’s finest dubstep music in the background all while getting yelled at by their mom/wife/GF with a baby crying and 37 dogs barking), which means mechanics are more than an obstacle.
they are a WALL.

boss health is too high,
mechanics one shot,
dps race not possible from all the level 28 bow light attackers,

i dont do the random daily dungeon for fear of getting a dlc dungeon (majority of players feel this way as well, so this is a problem ZOS!)
normal mode should be brought down to be in line with base game dungeon difficulty.
AGAIN, THIS IS FOR NORMAL MODE ONLY! THE TRYHARDS AND HARDCORES HAVE THEIR YARD IN VETERAN MODE. LET US HAVE OURS IN NORMAL!!!

it is NOT as easy as “make friends, join a guild, git gud” because theres a thousand reasons why those concepts are not the solution: social anxiety, build shaming, punk kids being punk kids, elitism, getting kicked, etc

however... veteran mode and reading the scroll should stay the same as it is now.
hardcore groups and min/maxers dont play normal anyway so this change doesnt affect them.
they get to keep on keepin on.

i dont play games to be stressed out. i want to cruise on through and not think about it too much, and i think normal mode should be brought down several notches by the nerf hammer to make this content WE PAID FOR more accessible and playable by the majority of the players.

Doctordarkspawn · August 2018

Thank you. The normal mode is to the point where like every team I try to run it with just gets straight up screwed.

It's just a slog unless your DPS is good enough and even then you should be doing vet. It's fine if the vet versions are hard. The normal version should be Normal. That's what the mode is for.

jaschacasadiob16_ESO · August 2018

Learn to play your class and the mechanics of the dungeons. f you wanna pay for something and enjoy it without any kind of challenge, buy a book or rent a movie.

Merlin13KAGL · August 2018

Why are you buying content you purposely avoid?
If you're counting ESO+ in the mix, you're not buying, you're leasing.

Why should even normal be expected to hand itself over to you? It's group content, it's already expected that it's going to be a step harder than base game, yet it's nothing that can't be bypassed by a semi-competent group.

And regarding solo options, it's group content. If any of a handful of reasons prevent you from choosing to group up successfully, then I defer to my initial statement. Why are you buying content you anticipate not playing?

Not every content has to cater to ever type of player, but there should be some content for every type of player, which there is.

Doctordarkspawn · August 2018

jaschacasadiob16_ESO wrote: »

Learn to play your class and the mechanics of the dungeons. f you wanna pay for something and enjoy it without any kind of challenge, buy a book or rent a movie.

Is this legitimately what we've come to? Anyone who does not share my view needs to move to an entirely different medium?

Screw that and the horse it rode in on.

Merlin13KAGL · August 2018

And what of the people that don't want Normal toned down any further, that still want a challenge, but are not yet ready for Vet for any of a handful of reasons?

Is it fair to take their challenge away to accommodate an easier clear for someone else? It's not unreasonable for someone to learn their class and learn the mechanics.

Nerf is not the answer, more than three difficulty tiers is.

Doctordarkspawn · August 2018

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Why are you buying content you purposely avoid?

If you're counting ESO+ in the mix, you're not buying, you're leasing.

Why should even normal be expected to hand itself over to you? It's group content, it's already expected that it's going to be a step harder than base game, yet it's nothing that can't be bypassed by a semi-competent group.

And regarding solo options, it's group content. If any of a handful of reasons prevent you from choosing to group up successfully, then I defer to my initial statement. Why are you buying content you anticipate not playing?

Not every content has to cater to ever type of player, but there should be some content for every type of player, which there is.

Here's the thing:

Nerfing the normal mode doesn't make it less hard on the vet mode.

We cant control when we go into these dungeons if we queue for random normal.

And leased or not, the only way to prevent myself from having the chance to suffer through them (Mostly just the wolf-hunter ones, the others are allright on normal) is to cancel my sub and wait for it to run out.

This is not a reasonable position. Nerf normal, leave vet untouched. You missed the point by a country mile, attempt indoctrination of new subjects somewhere else.

Guppet · August 2018

jaschacasadiob16_ESO wrote: »

Learn to play your class and the mechanics of the dungeons. f you wanna pay for something and enjoy it without any kind of challenge, buy a book or rent a movie.

Or if you like hard content, understand that’s what vet is for. Normal is supposed to be for normal players not hardcore.

One is supposed to be completeable by the average joe, the other by more skilled players. Currently you need to be skilled for both.

ZoS has the stats they are the only ones that do. If more dungeons are run by preformed groups than pugs, then harder content is the way forward, as more people are organised. If more are run by pugs, then the player base is less organised and less capable of harder content.

Septimus_Magna · August 2018

Every random group combination can complete normal DLC dungeons. Even if your dps is low you’ll be fine if you follow the mechanics. On normal failing the mechanics usually doesnt even kill you as long as you block, dodge or shield.

There are a lot of players that find vet DLC dungeons too hard but get a challenge out of normal DLC dungeons. Making the difference bigger would only mean more players dont get challenged on normal and are far from ready for vet.

If anything, normal dungeons should become more difficult so the step to non-DLC vet dungeons isnt so big.

greylox · August 2018

Clearly need 3 difficulty modes, actually I'd go 4...solo, rookie, normal and vet.

Merlin13KAGL · August 2018

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Why are you buying content you purposely avoid?

If you're counting ESO+ in the mix, you're not buying, you're leasing.

Why should even normal be expected to hand itself over to you? It's group content, it's already expected that it's going to be a step harder than base game, yet it's nothing that can't be bypassed by a semi-competent group.

And regarding solo options, it's group content. If any of a handful of reasons prevent you from choosing to group up successfully, then I defer to my initial statement. Why are you buying content you anticipate not playing?

Not every content has to cater to ever type of player, but there should be some content for every type of player, which there is.

Here's the thing:

Nerfing the normal mode doesn't make it less hard on the vet mode.

We cant control when we go into these dungeons if we queue for random normal.

And leased or not, the only way to prevent myself from having the chance to suffer through them (Mostly just the wolf-hunter ones, the others are allright on normal) is to cancel my sub and wait for it to run out.

This is not a reasonable position. Nerf normal, leave vet untouched. You missed the point by a country mile, attempt indoctrination of new subjects somewhere else.

So ask for a way to exclude DLC dungeons from the RDF, or exit group if that's one you get. You're right, it's not a reasonable position. You're automatically assuming the majority want it simplified further. You're assuming yours is the common opinion.

In your defense, I hadn't added this part yet:

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Is it fair to take their challenge away to accommodate an easier clear for someone else? It's not unreasonable for someone to learn their class and learn the mechanics.

If you want a method to base game only RDF, then request it in feedback. If you want more than just 3 tiers of difficulty, request it in feedback.

Don't assume because new content doesn't give itself up to you during week one that the majority that run even normal want it simplified.

There are more skill levels of player than just Norm, Vet, and HM. You're providing the exact same argument on the opposite end of the scale "If you don't want an easy Norm, then go to Vet or get out."

Again, what of those out there that are not ready for Vet, but don't want norm handed to them?

Guppet · August 2018

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Why are you buying content you purposely avoid?

If you're counting ESO+ in the mix, you're not buying, you're leasing.

Why should even normal be expected to hand itself over to you? It's group content, it's already expected that it's going to be a step harder than base game, yet it's nothing that can't be bypassed by a semi-competent group.

And regarding solo options, it's group content. If any of a handful of reasons prevent you from choosing to group up successfully, then I defer to my initial statement. Why are you buying content you anticipate not playing?

Not every content has to cater to ever type of player, but there should be some content for every type of player, which there is.

Here's the thing:

Nerfing the normal mode doesn't make it less hard on the vet mode.

We cant control when we go into these dungeons if we queue for random normal.

And leased or not, the only way to prevent myself from having the chance to suffer through them (Mostly just the wolf-hunter ones, the others are allright on normal) is to cancel my sub and wait for it to run out.

This is not a reasonable position. Nerf normal, leave vet untouched. You missed the point by a country mile, attempt indoctrination of new subjects somewhere else.

So ask for a way to exclude DLC dungeons from the RDF, or exit group if that's one you get. You're right, it's not a reasonable position. You're automatically assuming the majority want it simplified further. You're assuming yours is the common opinion.

In your defense, I hadn't added this part yet:

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Is it fair to take their challenge away to accommodate an easier clear for someone else? It's not unreasonable for someone to learn their class and learn the mechanics.

If you want a method to base game only RDF, then request it in feedback. If you want more than just 3 tiers of difficulty, request it in feedback.

Don't assume because new content doesn't give itself up to you during week one that the majority that run even normal want it simplified.

There are more skill levels of player than just Norm, Vet, and HM. You're providing the exact same argument on the opposite end of the scale "If you don't want an easy Norm, then go to Vet or get out."

Again, what of those out there that are not ready for Vet, but don't want norm handed to them?

Norm on dlc is the same difficulty as non dlc vet, so that content exists at that level of difficulty for those players. Making dlc norms easier does not remove all content at that difficulty level.

Doctordarkspawn · August 2018

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Why are you buying content you purposely avoid?

If you're counting ESO+ in the mix, you're not buying, you're leasing.

Why should even normal be expected to hand itself over to you? It's group content, it's already expected that it's going to be a step harder than base game, yet it's nothing that can't be bypassed by a semi-competent group.

And regarding solo options, it's group content. If any of a handful of reasons prevent you from choosing to group up successfully, then I defer to my initial statement. Why are you buying content you anticipate not playing?

Not every content has to cater to ever type of player, but there should be some content for every type of player, which there is.

Here's the thing:

Nerfing the normal mode doesn't make it less hard on the vet mode.

We cant control when we go into these dungeons if we queue for random normal.

And leased or not, the only way to prevent myself from having the chance to suffer through them (Mostly just the wolf-hunter ones, the others are allright on normal) is to cancel my sub and wait for it to run out.

This is not a reasonable position. Nerf normal, leave vet untouched. You missed the point by a country mile, attempt indoctrination of new subjects somewhere else.

So ask for a way to exclude DLC dungeons from the RDF, or exit group if that's one you get. You're right, it's not a reasonable position. You're automatically assuming the majority want it simplified further. You're assuming yours is the common opinion.

In your defense, I hadn't added this part yet:

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Is it fair to take their challenge away to accommodate an easier clear for someone else? It's not unreasonable for someone to learn their class and learn the mechanics.

If you want a method to base game only RDF, then request it in feedback. If you want more than just 3 tiers of difficulty, request it in feedback.

Don't assume because new content doesn't give itself up to you during week one that the majority that run even normal want it simplified.

There are more skill levels of player than just Norm, Vet, and HM. You're providing the exact same argument on the opposite end of the scale "If you don't want an easy Norm, then go to Vet or get out."

Again, what of those out there that are not ready for Vet, but don't want norm handed to them?

We have requested these things. Over. And Over. And OVer. And OVER.

These are not new requests. We've been vocal about it and they've never *** lisened. So dont give me that. A middle-difficulty between normal and vet would fill this nieche and I've been suggesting it for litteral years.

I absolutely agree with you, that the people who want to train for vet will suffer for it if we change what is currently, but I have to point out that normal as it stands isn't a good training ground as it is. I have long suggested a revamp of the difficulty system, making vet -harder-, and giving a more tiered experience to help ease people into this. A story-based difficulty for those who want that, maybe with green geardrops at a lower rate. A training difficulty with blue drops, which I would make the difficulty that Vet was pre-morrowind. And finally, vet, turned up a notch. It would be good for everyone because it would improve things for the casuals and the hardcore players both, and give a better bridge for those who wanted to aspire to the other.

But ZOS has never responded. Now if you want to lobby for it, and lobby hard, I will stand shoulder to shoulder with you because I agree wholeheartedly but I wont hold my breath. And it's more likely they'll just nerf it to be in line with the other DLC normal modes, which honestly, is a short term solution for a problem that needs a long-term solution.

Also: I didn't assume anything. Threads like this keep poping up because people just dread doing these dungeons. It dont take a genius to put two and two together.

Kel · August 2018

It's really as simple as learning mechanics. It's as simple as writing in chat that you don't know the mechanics, and 9 times out of 10, someone will explain.
You mention the planar inhibitor. When her flame goes blue, someone takes the orb and runs to the other side of the room, and when the orb pops up, someone else takes the orb (it automatically returns to the center) and does the same in the opposite direction. Rinse and repeat until her flame goes back to red.
It's a simple mechanic, but of course it'll be difficult if no one speaks up about not knowing.
And if asking fails, and you know you'll be spending significant time farming there, maybe look up a guide on youtube or something.
And before you complain about "homework", there's no MMO in existence that teaches you how to do dungeon/trial/raid content in game. Your choices if you don't know are to ask (in voice or chat) or learn yourself by watching a video.
How else are you supposed to learn and improve? Again, before you say "The game should teach me!"...yeah, no game does that. What would be the point if the game told you how to beat it?

Ask or learn yourself....really that simple.

I do agree about the voice coms, though. That is a nightmare.....

Merlin13KAGL · August 2018

Guppet wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Why are you buying content you purposely avoid?

If you're counting ESO+ in the mix, you're not buying, you're leasing.

Why should even normal be expected to hand itself over to you? It's group content, it's already expected that it's going to be a step harder than base game, yet it's nothing that can't be bypassed by a semi-competent group.

And regarding solo options, it's group content. If any of a handful of reasons prevent you from choosing to group up successfully, then I defer to my initial statement. Why are you buying content you anticipate not playing?

Not every content has to cater to ever type of player, but there should be some content for every type of player, which there is.

Here's the thing:

Nerfing the normal mode doesn't make it less hard on the vet mode.

We cant control when we go into these dungeons if we queue for random normal.

And leased or not, the only way to prevent myself from having the chance to suffer through them (Mostly just the wolf-hunter ones, the others are allright on normal) is to cancel my sub and wait for it to run out.

This is not a reasonable position. Nerf normal, leave vet untouched. You missed the point by a country mile, attempt indoctrination of new subjects somewhere else.

So ask for a way to exclude DLC dungeons from the RDF, or exit group if that's one you get. You're right, it's not a reasonable position. You're automatically assuming the majority want it simplified further. You're assuming yours is the common opinion.

In your defense, I hadn't added this part yet:

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Is it fair to take their challenge away to accommodate an easier clear for someone else? It's not unreasonable for someone to learn their class and learn the mechanics.

If you want a method to base game only RDF, then request it in feedback. If you want more than just 3 tiers of difficulty, request it in feedback.

Don't assume because new content doesn't give itself up to you during week one that the majority that run even normal want it simplified.

There are more skill levels of player than just Norm, Vet, and HM. You're providing the exact same argument on the opposite end of the scale "If you don't want an easy Norm, then go to Vet or get out."

Again, what of those out there that are not ready for Vet, but don't want norm handed to them?

Norm on dlc is the same difficulty as non dlc vet, so that content exists at that level of difficulty for those players. Making dlc norms easier does not remove all content at that difficulty level.

So, you're not allowed to have a challenge below level 50, got it?

Because someone below level 50 doesn't have the option to do non dlc vet.

And if you're going to argue that it's not that hard to get to level 50, I'm going to counterargue that it's not that hard to learn the new mechanics of a dungeon, synergize with your group, and get a clear if you're reasonably built and familiar with your class.

The new dungeons require:

A little bit of DPS
An actual tank (yep, one that can take some hits, even on Norm)
Situational awareness of all players
Group cooperation (interrupts and synergies)

These things are all within the realm of any reasonable player, norm or otherwise. They are not going to be impassible for the majority of normal players, given enough time and practice.

kylewwefan · August 2018

Yeah. I’ll agree with you on this one. Normal mode is still over the top on the casuals. I pug a lot. DLC dungeon with the most casual of pug can be super stressful. No burn, can’t do mechanics, wipe over and over. Not fun. Also, if you want to solo farm, theyre still too much.

Silver_Strider · August 2018

There isn't a single normal mode dungeon, DLC or otherwise, that requires much thought or skills.

If you can't be bothered to learn the very, VERY simple mechanics these dungeons have, then that's an issue with the player, not the content.

Doctordarkspawn · August 2018

Silver_Strider wrote: »

There isn't a single normal mode dungeon, DLC or otherwise, that requires much thought or skills.

If you can't be bothered to learn the very, VERY simple mechanics these dungeons have, then that's an issue with the player, not the content.

I point to the Archivist of Moon Hunter Keep.

He has a enrage circle around him that causes any werewolves in that circle to enrage and deal oneshot damage.

And I have never seen it once. It's not simple mechanics if it's hard to see, and that's just hard to see. Apparently it's like a teeny tiny red outline and I've never seen it once, so sod off with that. Some of these are genuinelty dumb.

Guppet · August 2018

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Why are you buying content you purposely avoid?

If you're counting ESO+ in the mix, you're not buying, you're leasing.

Why should even normal be expected to hand itself over to you? It's group content, it's already expected that it's going to be a step harder than base game, yet it's nothing that can't be bypassed by a semi-competent group.

And regarding solo options, it's group content. If any of a handful of reasons prevent you from choosing to group up successfully, then I defer to my initial statement. Why are you buying content you anticipate not playing?

Not every content has to cater to ever type of player, but there should be some content for every type of player, which there is.

Here's the thing:

Nerfing the normal mode doesn't make it less hard on the vet mode.

We cant control when we go into these dungeons if we queue for random normal.

And leased or not, the only way to prevent myself from having the chance to suffer through them (Mostly just the wolf-hunter ones, the others are allright on normal) is to cancel my sub and wait for it to run out.

This is not a reasonable position. Nerf normal, leave vet untouched. You missed the point by a country mile, attempt indoctrination of new subjects somewhere else.

So ask for a way to exclude DLC dungeons from the RDF, or exit group if that's one you get. You're right, it's not a reasonable position. You're automatically assuming the majority want it simplified further. You're assuming yours is the common opinion.

In your defense, I hadn't added this part yet:

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Is it fair to take their challenge away to accommodate an easier clear for someone else? It's not unreasonable for someone to learn their class and learn the mechanics.

If you want a method to base game only RDF, then request it in feedback. If you want more than just 3 tiers of difficulty, request it in feedback.

Don't assume because new content doesn't give itself up to you during week one that the majority that run even normal want it simplified.

There are more skill levels of player than just Norm, Vet, and HM. You're providing the exact same argument on the opposite end of the scale "If you don't want an easy Norm, then go to Vet or get out."

Again, what of those out there that are not ready for Vet, but don't want norm handed to them?

Norm on dlc is the same difficulty as non dlc vet, so that content exists at that level of difficulty for those players. Making dlc norms easier does not remove all content at that difficulty level.

So, you're not allowed to have a challenge below level 50, got it?

Because someone below level 50 doesn't have the option to do non dlc vet.

And if you're going to argue that it's not that hard to get to level 50, I'm going to counterargue that it's not that hard to learn the new mechanics of a dungeon, synergize with your group, and get a clear if you're reasonably built and familiar with your class.

The new dungeons require:
A little bit of DPS

An actual tank (yep, one that can take some hits, even on Norm)

Situational awareness of all players

Group cooperation (interrupts and synergies)

These things are all within the realm of any reasonable player, norm or otherwise. They are not going to be impassible for the majority of normal players, given enough time and practice.

Your suggesting they should be left as is so people below level 50 have challenging content? That’s your argument?

How disconnected from reality are you?

Challenging content of that nature is for end game only, Always was.

Tell me how a pug of dlc goes with a group under 50.

That sir deserves comedy if the year award.

Merlin13KAGL · August 2018

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

There isn't a single normal mode dungeon, DLC or otherwise, that requires much thought or skills.

If you can't be bothered to learn the very, VERY simple mechanics these dungeons have, then that's an issue with the player, not the content.

I point to the Archivist of Moon Hunter Keep.

He has a enrage circle around him that causes any werewolves in that circle to enrage and deal oneshot damage.

And I have never seen it once. It's not simple mechanics if it's hard to see, and that's just hard to see. Apparently it's like a teeny tiny red outline and I've never seen it once, so sod off with that. Some of these are genuinelty dumb.

And yet you know of its existence?

Did you see the adds turn red (enraged)? Did you try tanking the adds elsewhere?

Every new content has things to figure out. Pre-guide, these are figured out by trial and error, a simple matter of "That didn't work, let's try something differernt."

Now if you have a visual bug, that's a whole different story, one completely unrelated to difficulty of the dungeon.

The simplest tells, if unable to be seen are going to pose as difficult.

IMO, they did a fairly good job of letting you know what you need to do. The Khajiit NPC is barking out suggestions for the entire duration of the Hedge Maze fight, giving you initial suggestions, then more dire recommendations if you ignore/miss the first ones. Death recap tooltips also give some insight, the dungeon/boss specific ones, not the generic use a CC / craft a potion ones, that is.

I don't recall if she does the same for the Archivist. Personally, I've never had issue seeing the circle around the boss. Didn't necessarily know what it did at first, but knew it was there for some reason.

profundidob16_ESO · August 2018

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

There isn't a single normal mode dungeon, DLC or otherwise, that requires much thought or skills.

If you can't be bothered to learn the very, VERY simple mechanics these dungeons have, then that's an issue with the player, not the content.

I point to the Archivist of Moon Hunter Keep.

He has a enrage circle around him that causes any werewolves in that circle to enrage and deal oneshot damage.

And I have never seen it once. It's not simple mechanics if it's hard to see, and that's just hard to see. Apparently it's like a teeny tiny red outline and I've never seen it once, so sod off with that. Some of these are genuinelty dumb.

the red line is there on the floor the whole time throughout the entire fight. Can't miss it unless either your graphic settings are too low or you are genuinly colorblind. In most cases people just didn't look at the floor at all and the second they do they go: "AAAHHH right..."

Raraaku · August 2018

I think it is dependent upon your PUG group. I have been able to clear all DLC content on normal with pugs. The first thing I ask is if anybody else has run it before, if anyone has (including myself) I ask for mechanics or offer to explain mechanics. If nobody has done it, we just roll along until we encounter a boss that wipes us twice or more. At that point I switch to my browser and look-up the specific boss's mechanics and tell my group what I've learned and we go from there.

Has worked for me so far; but I have also been fortunate enough that my group is willing to wait a minute or two for me to look up the relevant info and are receptive to the explanation and suggestions that I give. I know that won't always be the case.

profundidob16_ESO · August 2018

ayu_fever wrote: »

dlc dungeons are paid content, and ZOS wants players to get their moneys worth out of them so they are going to be difficult dungeons. they ALWAYS are. theres not really anything wrong with that, excpet for normal mode. it HAS TO be nerfed.

by design, the dlc dungeons are very well made. kudos to ZOS!
they are made for hardcore groups and they leave behind the solo players like me.
i dread dlc dungeon releases, because it is content i have PAID FOR and either i cant enjoy it or cant complete it.
I BOUGHT IT, AND I EXPECT CUSTOMER SATISFACTION!

because of this, i just avoid all dlc dungeons like the plague.
i played WGT enough to get 5 pieces of spc and didnt care about the trait, i just rerolled them. that was the most painful struggle i have ever experienced in this game! i still have nightmares of the planar inhibitor!
all other dlc dungeons i complete on NORMAL just once to get the skill point, and even this is very stressful to do, and then NOPE NEVER GOING IN THERE AGAIN!!!

(this rant is about NORMAL MODE only. you have been warned.)

i dont expcet paid dlc dungeons to be as easy as fungal grotto 1.
we all would be disappointed and angry if that were the case (but at least there would be more players doing the daily random!).
dlc dungeons are designed for groups, guilds and hardcore players, not for solo players and PUGs.

my issue with dlc dungeons is even on normal mode they are just too much to deal with.
they are just way too hard!

there is no group communication (myself personally i refuse to voice chat with random punk kids who constantly use racial slurs, “build-shame,” hit a vape, have 2012’s finest dubstep music in the background all while getting yelled at by their mom/wife/GF with a baby crying and 37 dogs barking), which means mechanics are more than an obstacle.
they are a WALL.

boss health is too high,
mechanics one shot,
dps race not possible from all the level 28 bow light attackers,

i dont do the random daily dungeon for fear of getting a dlc dungeon (majority of players feel this way as well, so this is a problem ZOS!)
normal mode should be brought down to be in line with base game dungeon difficulty.
AGAIN, THIS IS FOR NORMAL MODE ONLY! THE TRYHARDS AND HARDCORES HAVE THEIR YARD IN VETERAN MODE. LET US HAVE OURS IN NORMAL!!!

it is NOT as easy as “make friends, join a guild, git gud” because theres a thousand reasons why those concepts are not the solution: social anxiety, build shaming, punk kids being punk kids, elitism, getting kicked, etc

however... veteran mode and reading the scroll should stay the same as it is now.
hardcore groups and min/maxers dont play normal anyway so this change doesnt affect them.
they get to keep on keepin on.

i dont play games to be stressed out. i want to cruise on through and not think about it too much, and i think normal mode should be brought down several notches by the nerf hammer to make this content WE PAID FOR more accessible and playable by the majority of the players.

If you want to play solo, all the overland dungeons exist just for you. If you paid for or leased group dungeons content you're expected to play in group. I EXPECT COMMON SENSE !!

Merlin13KAGL · August 2018

Guppet wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Why are you buying content you purposely avoid?

If you're counting ESO+ in the mix, you're not buying, you're leasing.

Why should even normal be expected to hand itself over to you? It's group content, it's already expected that it's going to be a step harder than base game, yet it's nothing that can't be bypassed by a semi-competent group.

And regarding solo options, it's group content. If any of a handful of reasons prevent you from choosing to group up successfully, then I defer to my initial statement. Why are you buying content you anticipate not playing?

Not every content has to cater to ever type of player, but there should be some content for every type of player, which there is.

Here's the thing:

Nerfing the normal mode doesn't make it less hard on the vet mode.

We cant control when we go into these dungeons if we queue for random normal.

And leased or not, the only way to prevent myself from having the chance to suffer through them (Mostly just the wolf-hunter ones, the others are allright on normal) is to cancel my sub and wait for it to run out.

This is not a reasonable position. Nerf normal, leave vet untouched. You missed the point by a country mile, attempt indoctrination of new subjects somewhere else.

So ask for a way to exclude DLC dungeons from the RDF, or exit group if that's one you get. You're right, it's not a reasonable position. You're automatically assuming the majority want it simplified further. You're assuming yours is the common opinion.

In your defense, I hadn't added this part yet:

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Is it fair to take their challenge away to accommodate an easier clear for someone else? It's not unreasonable for someone to learn their class and learn the mechanics.

If you want a method to base game only RDF, then request it in feedback. If you want more than just 3 tiers of difficulty, request it in feedback.

Don't assume because new content doesn't give itself up to you during week one that the majority that run even normal want it simplified.

There are more skill levels of player than just Norm, Vet, and HM. You're providing the exact same argument on the opposite end of the scale "If you don't want an easy Norm, then go to Vet or get out."

Again, what of those out there that are not ready for Vet, but don't want norm handed to them?

Norm on dlc is the same difficulty as non dlc vet, so that content exists at that level of difficulty for those players. Making dlc norms easier does not remove all content at that difficulty level.

So, you're not allowed to have a challenge below level 50, got it?

Because someone below level 50 doesn't have the option to do non dlc vet.

And if you're going to argue that it's not that hard to get to level 50, I'm going to counterargue that it's not that hard to learn the new mechanics of a dungeon, synergize with your group, and get a clear if you're reasonably built and familiar with your class.

The new dungeons require:
A little bit of DPS

An actual tank (yep, one that can take some hits, even on Norm)

Situational awareness of all players

Group cooperation (interrupts and synergies)

These things are all within the realm of any reasonable player, norm or otherwise. They are not going to be impassible for the majority of normal players, given enough time and practice.

Your suggesting they should be left as is so people key below level 50 have challenging content? That’s your argument?

How disconnected from reality are you?

Challenging content of that nature is for end game only, Always was.

Tell me how a pug of dlc goes with a group under 50.

That sir deserves comedy if the year award.

It went smashingly, just yesterday. Once everyone heard what to do and did it, there were no issues at all.

End game content being the only required challenge would leave a pretty big gap in this game. Your insistence that the majority game is obligated to be casual friendly (it already is) is absurd.

Why not pay your crowns, buy the trophy in the Crown Store, and skip the content entirely?

Again, not everyone wants it handed to them, especially not more than it already is.

This is coming from pre-1T, pre-CP, non-scaled, zone leveled, it's-ok-it-something-actually-hands-you-your-ass, from before Day 1 gameplay.

It's not an achievement if there's nothing to achieve.

Doctordarkspawn · August 2018

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

There isn't a single normal mode dungeon, DLC or otherwise, that requires much thought or skills.

If you can't be bothered to learn the very, VERY simple mechanics these dungeons have, then that's an issue with the player, not the content.

I point to the Archivist of Moon Hunter Keep.

He has a enrage circle around him that causes any werewolves in that circle to enrage and deal oneshot damage.

And I have never seen it once. It's not simple mechanics if it's hard to see, and that's just hard to see. Apparently it's like a teeny tiny red outline and I've never seen it once, so sod off with that. Some of these are genuinelty dumb.

And yet you know of its existence?

Did you see the adds turn red (enraged)? Did you try tanking the adds elsewhere?

Every new content has things to figure out. Pre-guide, these are figured out by trial and error, a simple matter of "That didn't work, let's try something differernt."

Now if you have a visual bug, that's a whole different story, one completely unrelated to difficulty of the dungeon.

The simplest tells, if unable to be seen are going to pose as difficult.

IMO, they did a fairly good job of letting you know what you need to do. The Khajiit NPC is barking out suggestions for the entire duration of the Hedge Maze fight, giving you initial suggestions, then more dire recommendations if you ignore/miss the first ones. Death recap tooltips also give some insight, the dungeon/boss specific ones, not the generic use a CC / craft a potion ones, that is.

I don't recall if she does the same for the Archivist. Personally, I've never had issue seeing the circle around the boss. Didn't necessarily know what it did at first, but knew it was there for some reason.

Only after being explicitly being told that was what was happening.

The enrage-mechanic could be litterally anything. The flesh golems on imperial city prison originally enraged if left alive too long. And I assumed, you're only recourse was to immediately burst them down. It was only after raising concerns on the forum that someone told me what was happening, and it had made sense.

And no, I didn't try tanking them elsewhere. The one group I encountered it on broke up after the first few attempts running into the problem and subsequent groups either didn't get that far, or were DPS machines murdering anything and everything they came into contact with. (And as for the first end of the spectrum, I've met one group that simply didn't get farther then the first boss because they were that bad. Those are the people that make the nerf necessary. Or another difficulty dedicated to story entirely.)

So please, stop with the condescension. It was a crappily communicated mechanic especially when juxtoposed with other bossfights which give you clear audio queues. Like the lurcher.

But it mostly just seems like you're here to witch-hunt people who dont agree with the current difficulty, like git-gud culture conditions you to do. So anything further directed at you seems a waste.

idk · August 2018

Maybe OP does not have much experience in different major MMORPGs but end game content, dungeons and trials, often mature with the game.

Meaning newer dungeons and trials are more challenging that the content released earlier in the game. More often than not it is a good improvement though in ESO Zos has been getting lazy with their trial development.

In other words it has nothing to do with it being paid content. If that were the case it would be easier since most in the game are fairly casual.

Edit: this just seems to be a rant from a solo player who refuses to be part of a group even when (s)he is in a group. That is a choice. This is an MMORPG so Zos is right to create challenging group content. It is rather irrelevant is a player chooses to not participate because they prefer to be a solo payer in a community game.

Merlin13KAGL · August 2018

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

There isn't a single normal mode dungeon, DLC or otherwise, that requires much thought or skills.

If you can't be bothered to learn the very, VERY simple mechanics these dungeons have, then that's an issue with the player, not the content.

I point to the Archivist of Moon Hunter Keep.

He has a enrage circle around him that causes any werewolves in that circle to enrage and deal oneshot damage.

And I have never seen it once. It's not simple mechanics if it's hard to see, and that's just hard to see. Apparently it's like a teeny tiny red outline and I've never seen it once, so sod off with that. Some of these are genuinelty dumb.

And yet you know of its existence?

Did you see the adds turn red (enraged)? Did you try tanking the adds elsewhere?

Every new content has things to figure out. Pre-guide, these are figured out by trial and error, a simple matter of "That didn't work, let's try something differernt."

Now if you have a visual bug, that's a whole different story, one completely unrelated to difficulty of the dungeon.

The simplest tells, if unable to be seen are going to pose as difficult.

IMO, they did a fairly good job of letting you know what you need to do. The Khajiit NPC is barking out suggestions for the entire duration of the Hedge Maze fight, giving you initial suggestions, then more dire recommendations if you ignore/miss the first ones. Death recap tooltips also give some insight, the dungeon/boss specific ones, not the generic use a CC / craft a potion ones, that is.

I don't recall if she does the same for the Archivist. Personally, I've never had issue seeing the circle around the boss. Didn't necessarily know what it did at first, but knew it was there for some reason.

Only after being explicitly being told that was what was happening.

The enrage-mechanic could be litterally anything. The flesh golems on imperial city prison originally enraged if left alive too long. And I assumed, you're only recourse was to immediately burst them down. It was only after raising concerns on the forum that someone told me what was happening, and it had made sense.

And no, I didn't try tanking them elsewhere. The one group I encountered it on broke up after the first few attempts running into the problem and subsequent groups either didn't get that far, or were DPS machines murdering anything and everything they came into contact with. (And as for the first end of the spectrum, I've met one group that simply didn't get farther then the first boss because they were that bad. Those are the people that make the nerf necessary.)

So please, stop with the condescension. It was a crappily communicated mechanic especially when juxtoposed with other bossfights which give you clear audio queues. Like the lurcher.

And which part is the condescension?

Not every intended method is clear on every piece of content, I will absolutely give you that.

Figuring it out, sometimes by complete accident, sometimes by trying different methods until something clicks or seems to make sense works.

Some people, myself included, purposely go into new content blind, with the full intention of figuring out the puzzle, so to speak. Announce your intent at the beginning, and most groups are willing to accommodate.

I've purposely requested wipes before because I wanted to test something out.

Because your first group didn't care to take the time to let that happen, and your second had high enough DPS it didn't need to are neither one, failures of the game.

Again, its week one.

Doctordarkspawn · August 2018

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

There isn't a single normal mode dungeon, DLC or otherwise, that requires much thought or skills.

If you can't be bothered to learn the very, VERY simple mechanics these dungeons have, then that's an issue with the player, not the content.

I point to the Archivist of Moon Hunter Keep.

He has a enrage circle around him that causes any werewolves in that circle to enrage and deal oneshot damage.

And I have never seen it once. It's not simple mechanics if it's hard to see, and that's just hard to see. Apparently it's like a teeny tiny red outline and I've never seen it once, so sod off with that. Some of these are genuinelty dumb.

And yet you know of its existence?

Did you see the adds turn red (enraged)? Did you try tanking the adds elsewhere?

Every new content has things to figure out. Pre-guide, these are figured out by trial and error, a simple matter of "That didn't work, let's try something differernt."

Now if you have a visual bug, that's a whole different story, one completely unrelated to difficulty of the dungeon.

The simplest tells, if unable to be seen are going to pose as difficult.

IMO, they did a fairly good job of letting you know what you need to do. The Khajiit NPC is barking out suggestions for the entire duration of the Hedge Maze fight, giving you initial suggestions, then more dire recommendations if you ignore/miss the first ones. Death recap tooltips also give some insight, the dungeon/boss specific ones, not the generic use a CC / craft a potion ones, that is.

I don't recall if she does the same for the Archivist. Personally, I've never had issue seeing the circle around the boss. Didn't necessarily know what it did at first, but knew it was there for some reason.

Only after being explicitly being told that was what was happening.

The enrage-mechanic could be litterally anything. The flesh golems on imperial city prison originally enraged if left alive too long. And I assumed, you're only recourse was to immediately burst them down. It was only after raising concerns on the forum that someone told me what was happening, and it had made sense.

And no, I didn't try tanking them elsewhere. The one group I encountered it on broke up after the first few attempts running into the problem and subsequent groups either didn't get that far, or were DPS machines murdering anything and everything they came into contact with. (And as for the first end of the spectrum, I've met one group that simply didn't get farther then the first boss because they were that bad. Those are the people that make the nerf necessary.)

So please, stop with the condescension. It was a crappily communicated mechanic especially when juxtoposed with other bossfights which give you clear audio queues. Like the lurcher.

And which part is the condescension?

Not every intended method is clear on every piece of content, I will absolutely give you that.

Figuring it out, sometimes by complete accident, sometimes by trying different methods until something clicks or seems to make sense works.

Some people, myself included, purposely go into new content blind, with the full intention of figuring out the puzzle, so to speak. Announce your intent at the beginning, and most groups are willing to accommodate.

I've purposely requested wipes before because I wanted to test something out.

Because your first group didn't care to take the time to let that happen, and your second had high enough DPS it didn't need to are neither one, failures of the game.

Again, its week one.

So what it really seems like is this:

You want the content to be difficult so it caters to you so you can figure it out like a puzzle.

I'd just like something fun to run.

Are you any less entitled then I am, by that logic? And that's about as far as I'm willing to entertain this thought experriment, because it seems like you're not here to adress any of the criticism and do nothing more then spread your git gud culture. Well I'm not converting, because it demands I come into threads and other dicussions like this and demands I berate people until they submit to 'enlightenment'.

Pass.

Qbiken · August 2018

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

There isn't a single normal mode dungeon, DLC or otherwise, that requires much thought or skills.

If you can't be bothered to learn the very, VERY simple mechanics these dungeons have, then that's an issue with the player, not the content.

I point to the Archivist of Moon Hunter Keep.

He has a enrage circle around him that causes any werewolves in that circle to enrage and deal oneshot damage.

And I have never seen it once. It's not simple mechanics if it's hard to see, and that's just hard to see. Apparently it's like a teeny tiny red outline and I've never seen it once, so sod off with that. Some of these are genuinelty dumb.

And yet you know of its existence?

Did you see the adds turn red (enraged)? Did you try tanking the adds elsewhere?

Every new content has things to figure out. Pre-guide, these are figured out by trial and error, a simple matter of "That didn't work, let's try something differernt."

Now if you have a visual bug, that's a whole different story, one completely unrelated to difficulty of the dungeon.

The simplest tells, if unable to be seen are going to pose as difficult.

IMO, they did a fairly good job of letting you know what you need to do. The Khajiit NPC is barking out suggestions for the entire duration of the Hedge Maze fight, giving you initial suggestions, then more dire recommendations if you ignore/miss the first ones. Death recap tooltips also give some insight, the dungeon/boss specific ones, not the generic use a CC / craft a potion ones, that is.

I don't recall if she does the same for the Archivist. Personally, I've never had issue seeing the circle around the boss. Didn't necessarily know what it did at first, but knew it was there for some reason.

Only after being explicitly being told that was what was happening.

And this is the pros of joining a PvE/Social guild. If you find yourself struggling while doing DLC dungeons with random groups (and dislike doing it at the same time), why not do the dungeons with people that know what they´re doing? Sure, we all have our preferences of how we like to play (solo or in group). Personally I rarely do new dungeons without having 1-2 people in the group that already knows the mechanics and can explain them to me. It makes it more fun for me, and less time-consuming and frustrating.

My best advice to OP is to join a PvE/Social guild with people that know mechanics of the DLC dungeons. Most likely it will make your experience with those dungeons a bit more pleasant.

Merlin13KAGL · August 2018

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

There isn't a single normal mode dungeon, DLC or otherwise, that requires much thought or skills.

If you can't be bothered to learn the very, VERY simple mechanics these dungeons have, then that's an issue with the player, not the content.

I point to the Archivist of Moon Hunter Keep.

He has a enrage circle around him that causes any werewolves in that circle to enrage and deal oneshot damage.

And I have never seen it once. It's not simple mechanics if it's hard to see, and that's just hard to see. Apparently it's like a teeny tiny red outline and I've never seen it once, so sod off with that. Some of these are genuinelty dumb.

And yet you know of its existence?

Did you see the adds turn red (enraged)? Did you try tanking the adds elsewhere?

Every new content has things to figure out. Pre-guide, these are figured out by trial and error, a simple matter of "That didn't work, let's try something differernt."

Now if you have a visual bug, that's a whole different story, one completely unrelated to difficulty of the dungeon.

The simplest tells, if unable to be seen are going to pose as difficult.

IMO, they did a fairly good job of letting you know what you need to do. The Khajiit NPC is barking out suggestions for the entire duration of the Hedge Maze fight, giving you initial suggestions, then more dire recommendations if you ignore/miss the first ones. Death recap tooltips also give some insight, the dungeon/boss specific ones, not the generic use a CC / craft a potion ones, that is.

I don't recall if she does the same for the Archivist. Personally, I've never had issue seeing the circle around the boss. Didn't necessarily know what it did at first, but knew it was there for some reason.

Only after being explicitly being told that was what was happening.

The enrage-mechanic could be litterally anything. The flesh golems on imperial city prison originally enraged if left alive too long. And I assumed, you're only recourse was to immediately burst them down. It was only after raising concerns on the forum that someone told me what was happening, and it had made sense.

And no, I didn't try tanking them elsewhere. The one group I encountered it on broke up after the first few attempts running into the problem and subsequent groups either didn't get that far, or were DPS machines murdering anything and everything they came into contact with. (And as for the first end of the spectrum, I've met one group that simply didn't get farther then the first boss because they were that bad. Those are the people that make the nerf necessary.)

So please, stop with the condescension. It was a crappily communicated mechanic especially when juxtoposed with other bossfights which give you clear audio queues. Like the lurcher.

And which part is the condescension?

Not every intended method is clear on every piece of content, I will absolutely give you that.

Figuring it out, sometimes by complete accident, sometimes by trying different methods until something clicks or seems to make sense works.

Some people, myself included, purposely go into new content blind, with the full intention of figuring out the puzzle, so to speak. Announce your intent at the beginning, and most groups are willing to accommodate.

I've purposely requested wipes before because I wanted to test something out.

Because your first group didn't care to take the time to let that happen, and your second had high enough DPS it didn't need to are neither one, failures of the game.

Again, its week one.

So what it really seems like is this:

You want the content to be difficult so it caters to you so you can figure it out like a puzzle.

I'd just like something fun to run.

Are you any less entitled then I am, by that logic? And that's about as far as I'm willing to entertain this thought experriment, because it seems like you're not here to adress any of the criticism and do nothing more then spread your git gud culture. Well I'm not converting, because it demands I come into threads and other dicussions like this and demands I berate people until they submit to 'enlightenment'.

Pass.

See, thing is, the current setup already provides both for each of us. I don't, for one minute, believe you incapable of clearing the content, especially if you made it as far as the Archivist. (You're already beaten the most difficult bosses in the dungeon.)

Again, no one's being berated, just expected to take the time necessary and do what is necessary to have their desired outcome.

It's not broken. It doesn't need fixed.

Doctordarkspawn · August 2018

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

There isn't a single normal mode dungeon, DLC or otherwise, that requires much thought or skills.

If you can't be bothered to learn the very, VERY simple mechanics these dungeons have, then that's an issue with the player, not the content.

I point to the Archivist of Moon Hunter Keep.

He has a enrage circle around him that causes any werewolves in that circle to enrage and deal oneshot damage.

And I have never seen it once. It's not simple mechanics if it's hard to see, and that's just hard to see. Apparently it's like a teeny tiny red outline and I've never seen it once, so sod off with that. Some of these are genuinelty dumb.

And yet you know of its existence?

Did you see the adds turn red (enraged)? Did you try tanking the adds elsewhere?

Every new content has things to figure out. Pre-guide, these are figured out by trial and error, a simple matter of "That didn't work, let's try something differernt."

Now if you have a visual bug, that's a whole different story, one completely unrelated to difficulty of the dungeon.

The simplest tells, if unable to be seen are going to pose as difficult.

IMO, they did a fairly good job of letting you know what you need to do. The Khajiit NPC is barking out suggestions for the entire duration of the Hedge Maze fight, giving you initial suggestions, then more dire recommendations if you ignore/miss the first ones. Death recap tooltips also give some insight, the dungeon/boss specific ones, not the generic use a CC / craft a potion ones, that is.

I don't recall if she does the same for the Archivist. Personally, I've never had issue seeing the circle around the boss. Didn't necessarily know what it did at first, but knew it was there for some reason.

Only after being explicitly being told that was what was happening.

The enrage-mechanic could be litterally anything. The flesh golems on imperial city prison originally enraged if left alive too long. And I assumed, you're only recourse was to immediately burst them down. It was only after raising concerns on the forum that someone told me what was happening, and it had made sense.

And no, I didn't try tanking them elsewhere. The one group I encountered it on broke up after the first few attempts running into the problem and subsequent groups either didn't get that far, or were DPS machines murdering anything and everything they came into contact with. (And as for the first end of the spectrum, I've met one group that simply didn't get farther then the first boss because they were that bad. Those are the people that make the nerf necessary.)

So please, stop with the condescension. It was a crappily communicated mechanic especially when juxtoposed with other bossfights which give you clear audio queues. Like the lurcher.

And which part is the condescension?

Not every intended method is clear on every piece of content, I will absolutely give you that.

Figuring it out, sometimes by complete accident, sometimes by trying different methods until something clicks or seems to make sense works.

Some people, myself included, purposely go into new content blind, with the full intention of figuring out the puzzle, so to speak. Announce your intent at the beginning, and most groups are willing to accommodate.

I've purposely requested wipes before because I wanted to test something out.

Because your first group didn't care to take the time to let that happen, and your second had high enough DPS it didn't need to are neither one, failures of the game.

Again, its week one.

So what it really seems like is this:

You want the content to be difficult so it caters to you so you can figure it out like a puzzle.

I'd just like something fun to run.

Are you any less entitled then I am, by that logic? And that's about as far as I'm willing to entertain this thought experriment, because it seems like you're not here to adress any of the criticism and do nothing more then spread your git gud culture. Well I'm not converting, because it demands I come into threads and other dicussions like this and demands I berate people until they submit to 'enlightenment'.

Pass.

See, thing is, the current setup already provides both for each of us. I don't, for one minute, believe you incapable of clearing the content, especially if you made it as far as the Archivist. (You're already beaten the most difficult bosses in the dungeon.)

Again, no one's being berated, just expected to take the time necessary and do what is necessary to have their desired outcome.

It's not broken. It doesn't need fixed.

Clearly it doesn't. If casuals that I see running it cant make it past the first boss of moon-hunter keep.

And I'm not incapable of clearing the content, what is with you're presumptions? I've competed both dungeons on normal. But will never attempt them on vet because I hate tryhard design and everything that comes with it. I hate it. I play this game to have fun. Suffering so you can have your puzzle isn't fun. Stop trying to justify me being a martyr, it wont *** work.

I beat both these dungeons and I still stand by this complaint. You're misconceptions speak more about you then my position does about me. I have beat these dungeons and I still think they need nerfed. I defy you.

And no, you're not berating me, you're just being a presumtive condescending (insert expletive here).