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Balancing is toxic to the game
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Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »Thank you for voicing your opinion.
I disagree.
Game is 98% balanced.
People are loosing their mind over the remaining 2%.
Sure... if you're just making up numbers, then that might be true in your own little world.
For anyone interested in actual facts, though, the DPS gap is far more than 2%. At the extremes, the best Wardens are still 30k+ behind the best Nightblades and Sorcs. Looking at average players, there's still a 10-20k gap. That's far more than 2%.
Lies! A magden in my guild does 60k dps in trials.
Good for you. I'd go as far as to say most magdens dont achieve this.
Because the rotation is the rotation version of darksouls and most people dont got time for that.
True xD but just sayin! It aint impossible
Magwarden in terms of difficulty is like using a non-pet magsorcs. Not the easiest, but definitely not the dark souls of rotations....lol xD0 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »Thank you for voicing your opinion.
I disagree.
Game is 98% balanced.
People are loosing their mind over the remaining 2%.
Sure... if you're just making up numbers, then that might be true in your own little world.
For anyone interested in actual facts, though, the DPS gap is far more than 2%. At the extremes, the best Wardens are still 30k+ behind the best Nightblades and Sorcs. Looking at average players, there's still a 10-20k gap. That's far more than 2%.
Lies! A magden in my guild does 60k dps in trials.
Good for you. I'd go as far as to say most magdens dont achieve this.
Because the rotation is the rotation version of darksouls and most people dont got time for that.
True xD but just sayin! It aint impossible
Magwarden in terms of difficulty is like using a non-pet magsorcs. Not the easiest, but definitely not the dark souls of rotations....lol xD
Magsorc is honestly pretty easy from what I've seen once you get over using three godamn bars.
The hardest rotations are definately Magden, Stamden, and Stamblade in no particular order. But still.
It really just comes down to the fact rotations feel like a mathematical equasion that takes eons to solve. And I dont play this game to solve math problems. I play this game to have fun.Edited by Doctordarkspawn on August 16, 2018 8:53AM0 -
Silver_Strider✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Balance isn't toxic, only poor balance is, which is the problem. ESO in its current state cannot be properly balanced, full stop. The classes, content designs, etc would all need to be rebuilt from the ground up because it's way too narrow in scope as it currently is.
There are ways to make each class equally viable for whatever role they so choose if ZOS would have a focus for each class in a specific role. Things like making Sorc the Pet Healer, NB the HoT Healer, DK the Shield Healer, Templar the Burst Healer and Warden the Buff Healer could all work if ZOS would adjust their skills to do so. Instead, they just give every class a burst heal and call it a day. Same with Tanking and Chains. Instead of making each class actually play differently from one another, with some extra tools thrown in for everyone, they would rather that each class play more or less the same. This is particularly true for Stamina builds that all play almost entirely the same with very little variety between them due to a heavy reliance on weapon skills.
The best way, IMO, to balance the classes is by a complete overhaul of each class and an introduction of a 2nd set of morph options to each skill. Give each class a designated Tank/Heal/DPS skill line and grant them Stamina and Magic Morphs for all their abilities. Give each class a specialization for their selected role and have their class skills reflect this specialty. NB Healers are mostly HoT based so grant them skills that synergize with that playstyle, have Sorc Tanks be able to mitigate damage by sharing it with their Pets, etc. This way, each class plays differently from one another without immediately being the best at a given role. By giving each class the tools it needs to function, while also being unique to that class, it leads to more diversity in the game. This, however, leads into another issue.
Content design in this game is absolutely atrocious; OHKO's everywhere, untauntable enemies, Burst Heals or bust, the list goes on. In order to make things like a HoT healer or Pet Sorc Tank viable, the content needs to be flexible enough that these playstyles are not handicapped for playing as intended. You bring a Sorc Tank that uses Clannfear as their burst heal into something like vAA, you're going to have a bad time because the content punishes you for doing so. THIS SHOULD NOT HAPPEN!!! Why bother making classes viable for all roles if the content itself doesn't allow for this? How can you expect Healers to be viable when content is designed that everything is practically a OHKO, even for a Tank? It's these asinine design choices that made the player base so heavily bias on certain aspects that still linger today. Content shouldn't have mechanics that punish specific class builds for utilizing their toolkits but be built with these toolkits in mind.
ZOS needs to go thru their game with a fine toothed comb and adjust EVERYTHING accordingly. Make each class have its own self contained identity for a role that is equally viable for all content as the next class and adjust content so that they aren't gimped for playing as they're intended. Only then can the game reach at least some semblance of balance.Edited by Silver_Strider on August 16, 2018 10:53AMArgonian forever3 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
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The opposite actually. I never asked ZOS to stop balancing. I supported sload introduction into the game, which itself was a balancing act to counter overperforming builds.0 -
SugaComa✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »DuskMarine wrote: »lets be honest if they had more classes say around 10 they could balance the game so much easier than the current 5 we have. their limiting themselves and instead of actually balancing the game their only breaking it. in order for true balance we need 5 more classes cause you dont have enough counterability in the game right now for 5 classes. practically every patch something comes up broken for a class cause they cant get it right cause there is to few things to balance.
Oh god no, have you seen what happens when they try to make other classes? And specifically do so for PVP?
You get Warden, a class that's useless in PVE DPS and broken in PVP. No thank you.
I still really can't see how Warden is broken for PvP
Me neither ... Wardens and DKs kill me more than any other class and apparently they're the worst classes ... I'm clearly missing something0 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Silver_Strider wrote: »Balance isn't toxic, only poor balance is, which is the problem. ESO in its current state cannot be properly balanced, full stop. The classes, content designs, etc would all need to be rebuilt from the ground up because it's way too narrow in scope as it currently is.
There are ways to make each class equally viable for whatever role they so choose if ZOS would have a focus for each class in a specific role. Things like making Sorc the Pet Healer, NB the HoT Healer, DK the Shield Healer, Templar the Burst Healer and Warden the Buff Healer could all work if ZOS would adjust their skills to do so. Instead, they just give every class a burst heal and call it a day. Same with Tanking and Chains. Instead of making each class actually play differently from one another, with some extra tools thrown in for everyone, they would rather that each class play more or less the same. This is particularly true for Stamina builds that all play almost entirely the same with very little variety between them due to a heavy reliance on weapon skills.
The best way, IMO, to balance the classes is by a complete overhaul of each class and an introduction of a 2nd set of morph options to each skill. Give each class a designated Tank/Heal/DPS skill line and grant them Stamina and Magic Morphs for all their abilities. Give each class a specialization for their selected role and have their class skills reflect this specialty. NB Healers are mostly HoT based so grant them skills that synergize with that playstyle, have Sorc Tanks be able to mitigate damage by sharing it with their Pets, etc. This way, each class plays differently from one another without immediately being the best at a given role. By giving each class the tools it needs to function, while also being unique to that class, it leads to more diversity in the game. This, however, leads into another issue.
Content design in this game is absolutely atrocious; OHKO's everywhere, untauntable enemies, Burst Heals or bust, the list goes on. In order to make things like a HoT healer or Pet Sorc Tank viable, the content needs to be flexible enough that these playstyles are not handicapped for playing as intended. You bring a Sorc Tank that uses Clannfear as their burst heal into something like vAA, you're going to have a bad time because the content punishes you for doing so. THIS SHOULD NOT HAPPEN!!! Why bother making classes viable for all roles if the content itself doesn't allow for this? How can you expect Healers to be viable when content is designed that everything is practically a OHKO, even for a Tank? It's these asinine design choices that made the player base so heavily bias on certain aspects that still linger today. Content shouldn't have mechanics that punish specific class builds for utilizing their toolkits but be built with these toolkits in mind.
ZOS needs to go thru their game with a fine toothed comb and adjust EVERYTHING accordingly. Make each class have its own self contained identity for a role that is equally viable for all content as the next class and adjust content so that they aren't gimped for playing as they're intended. Only then can the game reach at least some semblance of balance.
Just gonna adress the last bit of this:
IT'LL NEVER HAPPEN. And if it did it'll be done in such a way that is toxic. I do generally like your suggestions otherwise and quite frankly this game needs a Secret World Legends style re-branding and a combat system overhaul. And the extra morphs would indeed solve -alot- of issues but I doubt it'd ever happen.Edited by Doctordarkspawn on August 16, 2018 11:18AM0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DuskMarine wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »DuskMarine wrote: »lets be honest if they had more classes say around 10 they could balance the game so much easier than the current 5 we have. their limiting themselves and instead of actually balancing the game their only breaking it. in order for true balance we need 5 more classes cause you dont have enough counterability in the game right now for 5 classes. practically every patch something comes up broken for a class cause they cant get it right cause there is to few things to balance.
Oh god no, have you seen what happens when they try to make other classes? And specifically do so for PVP?
You get Warden, a class that's useless in PVE DPS and broken in PVP. No thank you.
its not broken in pvp its probly the most useless class in the game if their not running borderline heavy armor.
Stam warden has been a top 3 class since release and for 6 months it was 100% the best. It wasn't even close.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0