An intuitive search when you are in the guild trader menu is really all the current system needs. Would be nice if we received the mail as soon as we purchased but I like that we get them in the mail. Often I buy things that I want a different character to have.

when the player base drops to a certain point, i am pretty sure, it will force the changes we wish...but until then = shop til you drop! woot!

That's why i am glad i use:

https://eu.tamrieltradecentre.com/pc/Trade/Search

unfortunately, the real reason why guild traders are never going away is that it is single most effective gold sink in this game. it is the main reason why this is the only long lasting MMO that I have ever played that does NOT suffer from hyperinflation, while still allowing for multiple venues to make (create) gold, even if you wish not to participate in trading system and only use the gold to buy things from npc vendors.

so as annoying as the system is... I doubt ZoS will ever manage to come up with a better gold sink (in case you are wondering which part of the system is gold sink - weekly trader bids, listing tax is there, but its relatively negligible)

that said... they really do need to fix all the lag and search issues you have mentioned. especially since 2/3 of the game population have no acess to addons . reminder - consoles exist!

Mayrael wrote: »

Wauw, I love it hahahha

Linaleah wrote: »

unfortunately, the real reason why guild traders are never going away is that it is single most effective gold sink in this game.

I am afraid I am not following you.

If you are referring to the aggregate amount of in-game currency players spend on in-game purchases, this would theoretically remain the same even if the "Guild Store" mechanism were replaced by a "global" auction house.

If you are referring to the "commission" or "tax" levied (against sellers) on sales... for the purpose of creating a gold sink, this could easily be levied equally by a "global" auction house.

If you are referring to the expense of maintaining a "guild trader" NPC (guilds having to bid/pay regularly to gain/retain possession of it, as their "point of sale"), I confess I have no idea what that typically costs. But as far as I can tell, this "point of sale" mechanic is pretty uniformly funded in-game by the "commission" or "tax" levied on sales, a portion of which is surrendered directly to the "game" and a portion of which reverts to the guild that controls the "point of sale" NPC (the "guild cut"... which in turn is ALSO surrendered to the game to retain control of the "point of sale" NPC). For the purposes of creating a gold sink, this could also easily be levied equally by a "global" auction house. In fact, from the perspective of the seller, nothing about this would change. Either way, it is subsumed by the "tax" paid on sales.

Finally, based on my experience in other games (World of Warcraft and Guild Wars 2), I am aware that guild activities require a steady supply of resources, both in-game and in the real world (the real world typically involves voice communications, a website with forums, etc, all of which represents real-world expense). In my experience, these resources have always been donated by the members

But it crossed my mind that the design purpose of the "Guild Store" mechanism is to provide an in-game mechanism for bankrolling guild activities. If so, all I can say is: sheesh! What a distorted/tortured way to go about it!

And none of the ESO guilds to which I belong that maintain a "point of sale" NPC undertake any sort of in-game activity other than selling stuff via the "point of sale" NPC. Guilds organized around more conventional purposes (content, progression, etc) don't maintain a "point of sale" NPC. So, regardless of design intent, that doesn't seem to be how the "Guild Store" mechanism is actually used.

Conclusion: there doesn't seem to be anything uniquely advantageous about the "Guild Store" mechanism, for the purposes of creating a gold sink. A "global" auction house would work equally well for this purpose.

Aca2017 wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

unfortunately, the real reason why guild traders are never going away is that it is single most effective gold sink in this game.

I am afraid I am not following you.

If you are referring to the expense of maintaining a "guild trader" NPC (guilds having to bid/pay regularly to gain/retain possession of it, as their "point of sale"), I confess I have no idea what that typically costs. But as far as I can tell, this "point of sale" mechanic is pretty uniformly funded in-game by the "commission" or "tax" levied on sales, a portion of which is surrendered directly to the "game" and a portion of which reverts to the guild that controls the "point of sale" NPC (the "guild cut"... which in turn is ALSO surrendered to the game to retain control of the "point of sale" NPC). For the purposes of creating a gold sink, this could also easily be levied equally by a "global" auction house. In fact, from the perspective of the seller, nothing about this would change. Either way, it is subsumed by the "tax" paid on sales.

Bolded the correct answer in your quote. I'm on XB-NA and admit I don't have exact figures because I'm not an officer in my main city trading guilds, but I would conservatively estimate the bid rate is in the mid-high millions, per week, per trader in the major hubs. The one guild I can control bids in, was losing spots in secondary cities like Daggerfall when bidding at 2mil. Even the outlaws refuges in Marbruk, Greenshade is several hundred thousand. (Not sure on exact figure as my bid hasn't been high enough for months, but I keep inching higher).

Even if you went with an average of 1 mil per trader across the board (which is probably a reasonable figure), multiply that by the current number of guild traders available (204) = 204 million gold per week sunk into binary nothingness of Oblivion. An auction house would have to implement one heck of a sales tax to reach those figures.

My thought is that we SHOULD have an auction house for each alliance, but that in order to BUY and collect the item, you must travel to the specific guild vendor.

That way it gives us the ability to search everything in one place (yes you may get fewer bargains, but also fewer rip offs), but still sends players to distant locations that they may not otherwise frequent, retaining some realism since you must still pay the specific guild vendor (and an element of risk etc as if you're chasing something rare, someone else may beat you to it)

kargen27 wrote: »

An intuitive search when you are in the guild trader menu is really all the current system needs. Would be nice if we received the mail as soon as we purchased but I like that we get them in the mail. Often I buy things that I want a different character to have.

Have to agree with this. I use an add-on, but I have no idea how everyone on console shops without going insane.

Aca2017 wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

unfortunately, the real reason why guild traders are never going away is that it is single most effective gold sink in this game.

I am afraid I am not following you.

If you are referring to the aggregate amount of in-game currency players spend on in-game purchases, this would theoretically remain the same even if the "Guild Store" mechanism were replaced by a "global" auction house.

If you are referring to the "commission" or "tax" levied (against sellers) on sales... for the purpose of creating a gold sink, this could easily be levied equally by a "global" auction house.

If you are referring to the expense of maintaining a "guild trader" NPC (guilds having to bid/pay regularly to gain/retain possession of it, as their "point of sale"), I confess I have no idea what that typically costs. But as far as I can tell, this "point of sale" mechanic is pretty uniformly funded in-game by the "commission" or "tax" levied on sales, a portion of which is surrendered directly to the "game" and a portion of which reverts to the guild that controls the "point of sale" NPC (the "guild cut"... which in turn is ALSO surrendered to the game to retain control of the "point of sale" NPC). For the purposes of creating a gold sink, this could also easily be levied equally by a "global" auction house. In fact, from the perspective of the seller, nothing about this would change. Either way, it is subsumed by the "tax" paid on sales.

Finally, based on my experience in other games (World of Warcraft and Guild Wars 2), I am aware that guild activities require a steady supply of resources, both in-game and in the real world (the real world typically involves voice communications, a website with forums, etc, all of which represents real-world expense). In my experience, these resources have always been donated by the members

But it crossed my mind that the design purpose of the "Guild Store" mechanism is to provide an in-game mechanism for bankrolling guild activities. If so, all I can say is: sheesh! What a distorted/tortured way to go about it!

And none of the ESO guilds to which I belong that maintain a "point of sale" NPC undertake any sort of in-game activity other than selling stuff via the "point of sale" NPC. Guilds organized around more conventional purposes (content, progression, etc) don't maintain a "point of sale" NPC. So, regardless of design intent, that doesn't seem to be how the "Guild Store" mechanism is actually used.

Conclusion: there doesn't seem to be anything uniquely advantageous about the "Guild Store" mechanism, for the purposes of creating a gold sink. A "global" auction house would work equally well for this purpose.

1 I actualy state in my very post exactly which part of the system is a major gold sink. weekly trader fees. no, they are NOT funded by taxes, not even remotely, the sales taxes are not nearly enough to fund it. but even if they were - this is gold that gets consistently removed from the game. players buying from each other is not a gold sink. guilds bidding millions and millions of gold each week just to keep their trader? THAT is a gold sink, becasue each week, these millions get completely removed out of the economy, since they go back to NPC's essentially. so what you mentioned there about members donating resources to the guild? this is what is absolutely necessary at this point to keep traders. even my pve guild that just happens to maintain a trader, one of those out of the way, non hub traders that are supposed to be cheap? pretty much requires donations to afford aforementioned trader.

why you ask? becasue traders are finite and if you want to sell to players outside of your guild without spending ours advertising in zone chat and risk being cheated? you need a trader NPC.

whether its advantageous or not for a regular player is not the issue here. the issue here is that at this point? its the only consistent gold sink this game has. ZoS tried to add more gold sinks. various furnishing npc's, lux vendors, housing in general. but its just not consistent enough and its also designed in a way to allow people to spend RL money.

guild traders are inconvenient, especially if you are a buyer. some of that can and SHOULD be fixed. but at this point, too much of the health of the game depends on their existence.

P.S. I play WoW actualy, actively. and to be honest? lately I've had horrible time with auction house. some of that is at least in part due to the age of the game. but ... either things are way too expensive due to hyperinflation that blizzard allowed during WoD and especially Legion. or they just don't sell. at least in ESO I can still sell pretty much everything. I don't know if its becasue of traders or despite them. all I know is that auction house is a convenience thing, not a economy improvement thing. and as much as I would LOVE to have that convenience (and trust me, not having to be in a guild just to sell things, not having to worry about minimum contributions, not spending hours even with TTC - to find a few items at the lower price that I'd like to buy - that would be quite lovely), the fact tht there is nothing else in this game that will prevent hyperinflation as effectively as traders? means they will stay in. so why is it so important to prevent hyperinflation? becasue you want those people who actualy generate gold INTO the economy - the questers, the thief's, the grinders... to be able to afford to buy shinies just as much traders can. and why is it so important? because the more people you can sell to, the better things move, and the more people can afford to enjoy the games luxuries - the happier they are and the healthier the playerbase is.

until/if zos finds something to replace the consistency of trader fees? (and trust me, the very same people who will gladly donate vast amounts of gold to their guild community? will balk immediately at higher listing fees and taxes that are set by impersonal auction house, so higher fees alone will not do that) auction house is not happening. aka... auction house in this game is probably not happening. so.. at this point, I'd rather campaign for improved UI. and I say that as someone who has done my share of "guild traders are awful, why can't we have auction house" posts. this game is not set up to work with an auction house.

Mayrael wrote: »

QFE