RGD wrote: »

I've been a DK main for a while now, first a Tank, then a Stam DPS, then a Mag DK, and finally a Stam DPS again. Mag DK was fun primarily because of the decent passives, although the sustain was pretty rough, and the abundance of fun Magicka based skills to use, like Whip, Ash Cloud, Petrify, Chains, Flames of Oblivion and so on. The issue I see, though, is that the only 2 classes that have a good amount of Stamina morphs are Nightblade and Warden. I've literally been playing Nightblade and Warden more purely because they have better stamina based passives and more varying skills to utilise.

I know someone's gonna suggest or say "why don't you go back to Mag DK if you liked it so much?" - the problem is I've never been that big into magic type classes, I prefer using Sword&Board, Swords, Bows, etc. I enjoyed the evil, balrog feel, but it didn't feel like my "main" - which my DK is, it's where all my crafting stuff is and most of my achievements are, which is why I switched back to a Stamina based build. Although I saw why StamDK was weaker (at least for PvP) pretty quickly when I learned more about all of the other classes and their options. Warden, for example (at least for Stamina,) feels like a more powerful Dragonknight with different visual effects and better options, which sucks because I much prefer the Dragon theme of the DK.

Now I'm not sure what exactly I'd change the passives to, I'm sure someone's suggested some better passives before though and I could only really suggest changing morphs of Whip, Stone Fist, potentially Inhale, maybe Inferno or Obsidian Shield. It's difficult for me to say what exactly would work or be an improvement, as I'd probably suggest something under or over powered, however I really feel like Stamina DKs need a little loving in the way of options for their type of setup.

SmellyUnlimited wrote: »

RGD wrote: »

I've been a DK main for a while now, first a Tank, then a Stam DPS, then a Mag DK, and finally a Stam DPS again. Mag DK was fun primarily because of the decent passives, although the sustain was pretty rough, and the abundance of fun Magicka based skills to use, like Whip, Ash Cloud, Petrify, Chains, Flames of Oblivion and so on. The issue I see, though, is that the only 2 classes that have a good amount of Stamina morphs are Nightblade and Warden. I've literally been playing Nightblade and Warden more purely because they have better stamina based passives and more varying skills to utilise.

I know someone's gonna suggest or say "why don't you go back to Mag DK if you liked it so much?" - the problem is I've never been that big into magic type classes, I prefer using Sword&Board, Swords, Bows, etc. I enjoyed the evil, balrog feel, but it didn't feel like my "main" - which my DK is, it's where all my crafting stuff is and most of my achievements are, which is why I switched back to a Stamina based build. Although I saw why StamDK was weaker (at least for PvP) pretty quickly when I learned more about all of the other classes and their options. Warden, for example (at least for Stamina,) feels like a more powerful Dragonknight with different visual effects and better options, which sucks because I much prefer the Dragon theme of the DK.

Now I'm not sure what exactly I'd change the passives to, I'm sure someone's suggested some better passives before though and I could only really suggest changing morphs of Whip, Stone Fist, potentially Inhale, maybe Inferno or Obsidian Shield. It's difficult for me to say what exactly would work or be an improvement, as I'd probably suggest something under or over powered, however I really feel like Stamina DKs need a little loving in the way of options for their type of setup.

You can still play with a sword/board, swords, bows, if you like, but don’t expect it to be attractive to group play. But you can complete any overland and quest content that’s perfectly viable with your preferences. In group play where other people are relying on you to pull your weight, and wanting to maximize their free time during the activity, it’s not reasonable to place a greater weight on their shoulders simply because you don’t like the play style that provides maximum benefit. If everyone did that, group activities would take significantly more time to complete, and time is the most valuable resource we as human beings will ever have. There’s no regen ticks on time; use it and lose it.

RGD wrote: »

I've been a DK main for a while now, first a Tank, then a Stam DPS, then a Mag DK, and finally a Stam DPS again. Mag DK was fun primarily because of the decent passives, although the sustain was pretty rough, and the abundance of fun Magicka based skills to use, like Whip, Ash Cloud, Petrify, Chains, Flames of Oblivion and so on. The issue I see, though, is that the only 2 classes that have a good amount of Stamina morphs are Nightblade and Warden. I've literally been playing Nightblade and Warden more purely because they have better stamina based passives and more varying skills to utilise.

I know someone's gonna suggest or say "why don't you go back to Mag DK if you liked it so much?" - the problem is I've never been that big into magic type classes, I prefer using Sword&Board, Swords, Bows, etc. I enjoyed the evil, balrog feel, but it didn't feel like my "main" - which my DK is, it's where all my crafting stuff is and most of my achievements are, which is why I switched back to a Stamina based build. Although I saw why StamDK was weaker (at least for PvP) pretty quickly when I learned more about all of the other classes and their options. Warden, for example (at least for Stamina,) feels like a more powerful Dragonknight with different visual effects and better options, which sucks because I much prefer the Dragon theme of the DK.

Now I'm not sure what exactly I'd change the passives to, I'm sure someone's suggested some better passives before though and I could only really suggest changing morphs of Whip, Stone Fist, potentially Inhale, maybe Inferno or Obsidian Shield. It's difficult for me to say what exactly would work or be an improvement, as I'd probably suggest something under or over powered, however I really feel like Stamina DKs need a little loving in the way of options for their type of setup.

erlewine wrote: »

I agree with you, but it also applies to pretty much every class except maybe Nightblade/Warden.

DK/Sorc/Templar each have 2-3 Stam morphs, unfortunately. It'd be great to see things revamped, some abilities changed to 3 morphs, with a 3rd Stam morph added, etc.

Marshall1289 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Builds always use like 3-4 dmg skills at most with the rest being buff and support skills.

Stam dk's have enough dk support skills, wings/ igneous/ hardened

They also have 2 stamina morphs of their dots.

Ignoring the skills that every stamina class uses such a vigor/ rally/ forward momentum/ shuffle etc..

They have enough skills tbh. Buff skills that both mag and stam use with a few dmg morphs including a dmg ult and a defensive ult.

Your comment seems to be about pvp which I don't think is the problem with stam classes in the game, the current setup works alright with mag skills being used for utility sake in pvp on stam classes. OP is talking about pve where all stam classes are roughly the same and how there are passives that don't benefit us at all, but benefit mag classes.

How useful is 6% poison aoe dmg.. This is an awful passive, there is literally 2 skills in the game if I'm correct. Acid spray and noxious breath. So this passive is almost useless in every build for pve because DK's are built for close range fighting, they are one of the worst bow classes, not to mention bow is a support weapon and does poorly with a bow/bow build right now anyway. Viable, but not great in comparison to dw/bow..

Now lets take a look at magicka. They have blockade, eruption, engulfing flames, and MANY ult options that are in every pve dps build that benefit as aoe fire dmg. Both stam and mag use flames of oblivion yet only mag gets the cp benefits for causing fire dmg, also lowering the chance to proc the poison status effect for stam classes. A mag DK can go completely fire dmg in every way while stam gets... poison injection, noxious breath and venomous claw. 3/12 skill slots when mag can go 12/12.

Poison status effect is a 6 second DoT that does less dmg per tick than burning status effect that is 4 seconds long. Magicka has destruction staves that increase status effect proc chances by double and everything they use is fire so they keep the burning status efffect active 24/7 and because of that they get resources back via the combustion passive and get a constant increased dmg tick per second providing more dps. The only plus side is stam builds get 500 stamina back every 38 seconds from molten armaments. They do get the 5% minor brutality buff but it's only for 20 seconds and it's a group buff, it may be a dps loss to cast molten armaments every 20 seconds. I'm not sure what people choose to do.

Molten Armaments gives you 40% heavy attack dmg but with no major brutality, just major sorcery - clearly meant for mag builds yet it actually benefits stam builds more with quicker heavy attacks using DW. What does the stam side get? Nothing. Igneous weapons just gives the major brutality/sorcery as a group buff but every class in the game has this active 100% of the time through a class skill or weapon power potions.

Stam classes just feel like a complete afterthought, like ZoS never planned for them to be their own builds and part way through development of the game they put together some weapon skill lines to support stam builds. After 4 years of the game being out stamina classes are a bit tired of the same skills. There isn't much variety or class synergy for pve, I don't even play stam dk, but I'm making a mag dk and all I thought was how awful the passives/skills would be if I was interested in stam dks like I am in stam sorc.

Update the passives, give 1-2 skills to replace skills like rearming trap or a spammable, make a poison themed ult thats useful, increase proc chance of poison? I don't know, give something to enforce the idea that stam dks love poison and benefit from investing in to it.

leepalmer95 wrote: »

JobooAGS wrote: »

Marshall1289 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Builds always use like 3-4 dmg skills at most with the rest being buff and support skills.

Stam dk's have enough dk support skills, wings/ igneous/ hardened

They also have 2 stamina morphs of their dots.

Ignoring the skills that every stamina class uses such a vigor/ rally/ forward momentum/ shuffle etc..

They have enough skills tbh. Buff skills that both mag and stam use with a few dmg morphs including a dmg ult and a defensive ult.

Your comment seems to be about pvp which I don't think is the problem with stam classes in the game, the current setup works alright with mag skills being used for utility sake in pvp on stam classes. OP is talking about pve where all stam classes are roughly the same and how there are passives that don't benefit us at all, but benefit mag classes.

How useful is 6% poison aoe dmg.. This is an awful passive, there is literally 2 skills in the game if I'm correct. Acid spray and noxious breath. So this passive is almost useless in every build for pve because DK's are built for close range fighting, they are one of the worst bow classes, not to mention bow is a support weapon and does poorly with a bow/bow build right now anyway. Viable, but not great in comparison to dw/bow..

Now lets take a look at magicka. They have blockade, eruption, engulfing flames, and MANY ult options that are in every pve dps build that benefit as aoe fire dmg. Both stam and mag use flames of oblivion yet only mag gets the cp benefits for causing fire dmg, also lowering the chance to proc the poison status effect for stam classes. A mag DK can go completely fire dmg in every way while stam gets... poison injection, noxious breath and venomous claw. 3/12 skill slots when mag can go 12/12.

Poison status effect is a 6 second DoT that does less dmg per tick than burning status effect that is 4 seconds long. Magicka has destruction staves that increase status effect proc chances by double and everything they use is fire so they keep the burning status efffect active 24/7 and because of that they get resources back via the combustion passive and get a constant increased dmg tick per second providing more dps. The only plus side is stam builds get 500 stamina back every 38 seconds from molten armaments. They do get the 5% minor brutality buff but it's only for 20 seconds and it's a group buff, it may be a dps loss to cast molten armaments every 20 seconds. I'm not sure what people choose to do.

Molten Armaments gives you 40% heavy attack dmg but with no major brutality, just major sorcery - clearly meant for mag builds yet it actually benefits stam builds more with quicker heavy attacks using DW. What does the stam side get? Nothing. Igneous weapons just gives the major brutality/sorcery as a group buff but every class in the game has this active 100% of the time through a class skill or weapon power potions.

Stam classes just feel like a complete afterthought, like ZoS never planned for them to be their own builds and part way through development of the game they put together some weapon skill lines to support stam builds. After 4 years of the game being out stamina classes are a bit tired of the same skills. There isn't much variety or class synergy for pve, I don't even play stam dk, but I'm making a mag dk and all I thought was how awful the passives/skills would be if I was interested in stam dks like I am in stam sorc.

Update the passives, give 1-2 skills to replace skills like rearming trap or a spammable, make a poison themed ult thats useful, increase proc chance of poison? I don't know, give something to enforce the idea that stam dks love poison and benefit from investing in to it.

Although there is no statement that bow is a support weapon, I wish it wasnt balanced as one. Bow/bow should be competitive like destro/destro or dw/bow.

It's designed that way to both magicka and stamina have a support type weapon.

leepalmer95 wrote: »

JobooAGS wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

JobooAGS wrote: »

Marshall1289 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Builds always use like 3-4 dmg skills at most with the rest being buff and support skills.

Stam dk's have enough dk support skills, wings/ igneous/ hardened

They also have 2 stamina morphs of their dots.

Ignoring the skills that every stamina class uses such a vigor/ rally/ forward momentum/ shuffle etc..

They have enough skills tbh. Buff skills that both mag and stam use with a few dmg morphs including a dmg ult and a defensive ult.

Your comment seems to be about pvp which I don't think is the problem with stam classes in the game, the current setup works alright with mag skills being used for utility sake in pvp on stam classes. OP is talking about pve where all stam classes are roughly the same and how there are passives that don't benefit us at all, but benefit mag classes.

How useful is 6% poison aoe dmg.. This is an awful passive, there is literally 2 skills in the game if I'm correct. Acid spray and noxious breath. So this passive is almost useless in every build for pve because DK's are built for close range fighting, they are one of the worst bow classes, not to mention bow is a support weapon and does poorly with a bow/bow build right now anyway. Viable, but not great in comparison to dw/bow..

Now lets take a look at magicka. They have blockade, eruption, engulfing flames, and MANY ult options that are in every pve dps build that benefit as aoe fire dmg. Both stam and mag use flames of oblivion yet only mag gets the cp benefits for causing fire dmg, also lowering the chance to proc the poison status effect for stam classes. A mag DK can go completely fire dmg in every way while stam gets... poison injection, noxious breath and venomous claw. 3/12 skill slots when mag can go 12/12.

Poison status effect is a 6 second DoT that does less dmg per tick than burning status effect that is 4 seconds long. Magicka has destruction staves that increase status effect proc chances by double and everything they use is fire so they keep the burning status efffect active 24/7 and because of that they get resources back via the combustion passive and get a constant increased dmg tick per second providing more dps. The only plus side is stam builds get 500 stamina back every 38 seconds from molten armaments. They do get the 5% minor brutality buff but it's only for 20 seconds and it's a group buff, it may be a dps loss to cast molten armaments every 20 seconds. I'm not sure what people choose to do.

Molten Armaments gives you 40% heavy attack dmg but with no major brutality, just major sorcery - clearly meant for mag builds yet it actually benefits stam builds more with quicker heavy attacks using DW. What does the stam side get? Nothing. Igneous weapons just gives the major brutality/sorcery as a group buff but every class in the game has this active 100% of the time through a class skill or weapon power potions.

Stam classes just feel like a complete afterthought, like ZoS never planned for them to be their own builds and part way through development of the game they put together some weapon skill lines to support stam builds. After 4 years of the game being out stamina classes are a bit tired of the same skills. There isn't much variety or class synergy for pve, I don't even play stam dk, but I'm making a mag dk and all I thought was how awful the passives/skills would be if I was interested in stam dks like I am in stam sorc.

Update the passives, give 1-2 skills to replace skills like rearming trap or a spammable, make a poison themed ult thats useful, increase proc chance of poison? I don't know, give something to enforce the idea that stam dks love poison and benefit from investing in to it.

Although there is no statement that bow is a support weapon, I wish it wasnt balanced as one. Bow/bow should be competitive like destro/destro or dw/bow.

It's designed that way to both magicka and stamina have a support type weapon.

And which zos reprentative said it was bow?

The playerbase has.

Its a weapon that gives mobility, range, aoe ground dots, the longest range skill in the game and a passive execute skill.