New reasons Stam DK needs a whip.

Bobleeswaggen · August 2018

In the 2 years I have been playing a stam dk in pvp, I have probably had dizzying swing equipped 98% of the time. I hear and understand the argument that its too easily countered (blocked/dodged/out-maneuvered) but I always come back to it and for the most part I have felt comfortable with my ability to land hits with it when needed. My very humble opinion is that the alternative to using dizzy swing is to slot both noxious/venom claw and make us of a damaging proc set to make up the damage, though obviously that is not always the case.

The problem I am seeing now is the swift jewelry meta is making it so that dizzy swing is almost unusable against these fast opponents. In general I have no problem with swift, I think its a nice addition to the game and leads to another alternative to mitigate damage - but it does make dizzy swing near impossible to land (I have noticed that even when I speed up my character, its still difficult to target and hit a fast opponent). I don't see snaring as strong enough counter-play to make up for this.

So my suggestion is this: Don't change swift jewelry, don't change dizzy swing.. give stam dk (and probably stam sorc) an instant cast, direct damage stamina ability. Give these classes an identity instead of relying on proc sets or the - now hurting - dizzy swing spam.

Aliyavana · August 2018

Dizzying swing is such a clunky skill and I hate using it on a stam sorc

Ragnarock41 · August 2018

At this point stamina DK needs an entire rework. As long as bleeds and oblivion damage stays as in their current state(single bleed ticks for 2k , sloads can't even come close lmao), it will never and ever be good again. Stamina whip won't even change anything. But sure, I would like to be a discount stamblade.

Gulkrim-mur · August 2018

If you hold a heavy attack during ur dizzy it is faster

Xvorg · August 2018

Bobleeswaggen wrote: »

In the 2 years I have been playing a stam dk in pvp, I have probably had dizzying swing equipped 98% of the time. I hear and understand the argument that its too easily countered (blocked/dodged/out-maneuvered) but I always come back to it and for the most part I have felt comfortable with my ability to land hits with it when needed. My very humble opinion is that the alternative to using dizzy swing is to slot both noxious/venom claw and make us of a damaging proc set to make up the damage, though obviously that is not always the case.

The problem I am seeing now is the swift jewelry meta is making it so that dizzy swing is almost unusable against these fast opponents. In general I have no problem with swift, I think its a nice addition to the game and leads to another alternative to mitigate damage - but it does make dizzy swing near impossible to land (I have noticed that even when I speed up my character, its still difficult to target and hit a fast opponent). I don't see snaring as strong enough counter-play to make up for this.

So my suggestion is this: Don't change swift jewelry, don't change dizzy swing.. give stam dk (and probably stam sorc) an instant cast, direct damage stamina ability. Give these classes an identity instead of relying on proc sets or the - now hurting - dizzy swing spam.

It's not whip or the absence of a class spammable. The big problem of StamDK are the passives that by no way benefit the idea of a Knight class.

Sure, stam whip could be quite cool, but what benefit will you have on using it if no passive in the Ardent Flame line increases its dmg?

Imho, DKs don't need another Indiana Jones on HA that is played exactly the same as the magicka one: S/B and permablocking. Maybe a ranged stam skill that can be paired with bow would be a great option, though we know ZoS will never do it

Ragnarock41 · August 2018

DrInsanity666 wrote: »

If you hold a heavy attack during ur dizzy it is faster

its still a lot slower than no cast time abilities

Xvorg wrote: »

Bobleeswaggen wrote: »

In the 2 years I have been playing a stam dk in pvp, I have probably had dizzying swing equipped 98% of the time. I hear and understand the argument that its too easily countered (blocked/dodged/out-maneuvered) but I always come back to it and for the most part I have felt comfortable with my ability to land hits with it when needed. My very humble opinion is that the alternative to using dizzy swing is to slot both noxious/venom claw and make us of a damaging proc set to make up the damage, though obviously that is not always the case.

The problem I am seeing now is the swift jewelry meta is making it so that dizzy swing is almost unusable against these fast opponents. In general I have no problem with swift, I think its a nice addition to the game and leads to another alternative to mitigate damage - but it does make dizzy swing near impossible to land (I have noticed that even when I speed up my character, its still difficult to target and hit a fast opponent). I don't see snaring as strong enough counter-play to make up for this.

So my suggestion is this: Don't change swift jewelry, don't change dizzy swing.. give stam dk (and probably stam sorc) an instant cast, direct damage stamina ability. Give these classes an identity instead of relying on proc sets or the - now hurting - dizzy swing spam.

It's not whip or the absence of a class spammable. The big problem of StamDK are the passives that by no way benefit the idea of a Knight class.

Sure, stam whip could be quite cool, but what benefit will you have on using it if no passive in the Ardent Flame line increases its dmg?

Imho, DKs don't need another Indiana Jones on HA that is played exactly the same as the magicka one: S/B and permablocking. Maybe a ranged stam skill that can be paired with bow would be a great option, though we know ZoS will never do it

The terrible state of dizzying swing is also the part of problem. Try using that skill against anyone with a brain. Just try.

Jjitsuboy98 · August 2018

I hate dizzy swing. It's garbage. Especially with lag.

SneaK · August 2018

Below was my suggestion, it’s a punch not a whip, though.

Obsidian Shard: Converts to Stamina, decreased range 7m (now a spammable punch), combo increases damage and stuns. First hit sets off balance, stuns off balance enemies.

Bobleeswaggen · August 2018

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

The terrible state of dizzying swing is also the part of problem. Try using that skill against anyone with a brain. Just try.

I hear you. Its not viable at all in a 1v1 and even in the chaos of a battle ground it can be tough once a good opponent sees you using it it can be really hard to get it to land. Kind of like when a good opponent sees you dark deal on a stam sorc. The only reason I use it is the 1 in 4 (maybe) times I land it and then follow with a dbos or take flight its usually gg. Its a situational thing for sure. But with swift jewelry and speed meta its a dying skill.

Ender1310 · August 2018

I'll co sign this. Everything said is correct. Throw templars into the mix unmitigated damage is killing both of those classes.

Juhasow · August 2018

Ah so stam dk needs a whip because You dont want to adapt and stop using 2 hander as primary offensive weapon ? Ok....

Savos_Saren · August 2018

SneaK wrote: »

Below was my suggestion, it’s a punch not a whip, though.

Obsidian Shard: Converts to Stamina, decreased range 7m (now a spammable punch), combo increases damage and stuns. First hit sets off balance, stuns off balance enemies.

While I like the concept- you need to realize that they just reworked Obsidian Shard (again). Every time you spam punched someone you'd gain health? That might be a little much.

Now- I wouldn't mind so much if they converted Stone Giant into the punch and made Obsidian Shard a higher damage flame-based heal, though. That way- StamDKs can get a spammable, hard-hitting physical attack and mDKs can get something closer to an execute.

John_Falstaff · August 2018

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Every time you spam punched someone you'd gain health? That might be a little much.

Well, game already has a spammable that not only heals the player for 25% damage done, but also heals one nearby ally for same amount. So, maybe even a bit too little. Then again, maybe it's reserved only for ZOS-beloved class.

Savos_Saren · August 2018

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Every time you spam punched someone you'd gain health? That might be a little much.

Well, game already has a spammable that not only heals the player for 25% damage done, but also heals one nearby ally for same amount. So, maybe even a bit too little. Then again, maybe it's reserved only for ZOS-beloved class.

@John_Falstaff - but that's also for magicka. Remember- the whole premise behind ZOS not overloading stamina classes with healing abilities is that stamina naturally gets higher damage. If you're doing massive damage while healing yourself (even moreso that what a mNB or mDK or mSorc can put out) then it would be really unbalanced.

John_Falstaff · August 2018

@Savos_Saren , it looked good on paper. But that condition isn't holding anymore, sadly. Stamina does good damage on a dummy (and even so, mNB is now outparsing sDK, I think), but in recent trials, stamina's damage plummets through the floor, so there goes the balance. And stamina - being melee - is less survivable than magicka, so in the end, we have no damage, and no extra survivability magicka has (no range, no shields, and no added healing like NB's spammable gives). So it is already pretty unbalanced as it is.