What do we need servers for? Let's have an off line mode.

Mystrius_Archaion · August 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

Davor wrote: »

I would like to thank everyone for the good comments. I have learned some stuff. Thank you.

As for cheating, why can't we play off line and then when we go online, there is a program to see if the game has been cheated? The game can verify if the game was played without cheats. Again, I am not knowledgeable but I thought lots of things can be done in this day and age now.

Also if people are off line, wouldn't that help the online people? Isn't that what lots of us are asking for? Better online play? I can understand if ESO was a pure MMO but it's not a pure MMO so why not let the un MMO stuff be off line. It's been over 4 years now and Zenimax can't have a smooth game play for everyone. So why not make part of the game smoother? Again an idea, not saying this is the correct answer.

Well, the part of online play that I want to go better is PVP, so having less people online wouldn't actually help me there.

But aside from that, the whole game is an MMO. From the guild based economy to the amount of chests and resource nodes, from the group events like Dolmens and world bosses to public dungeons, the entire overland world of the game is based around massive numbers of online players, even before you hit group content.

There really isn't a way to cut out the "non MMO stuff" and make that offline, except for maybe the rare quests that are solo instances like most of the Main Quest.

I can solo the entire overworld, for the most part. How is that not ready to go offline?
Not every zone has a lot of players in it. I can often go into any zone really and find an area completely empty of players, even Summerset is often so empty at slower times that the geyser outside Alinor is untouched waiting for me to solo it, and solo it I do.

The game doesn't need any economy because an original player needs to get the item the old fashioned grinding way to be able to sell it in that economy. The crafting nodes and enemies are perfectly happy, as happy as inanimate objects can be, to sit there and wait for that one single solitary player to come along without feeling lonely because there isn't another player.

We're just asking for an offline option while you "everyone must be online" tunnel-vision people can have your online version you already have. You'll end up joining us though if you still care about the game when it inevitably dies, as every last mmo eventually does and most of them have already done so.
Just embrace the inevitability and prepare for it.

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Mystrius_Archaion · August 2018

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

Davor wrote: »

I would like to thank everyone for the good comments. I have learned some stuff. Thank you.

As for cheating, why can't we play off line and then when we go online, there is a program to see if the game has been cheated? The game can verify if the game was played without cheats. Again, I am not knowledgeable but I thought lots of things can be done in this day and age now.

Also if people are off line, wouldn't that help the online people? Isn't that what lots of us are asking for? Better online play? I can understand if ESO was a pure MMO but it's not a pure MMO so why not let the un MMO stuff be off line. It's been over 4 years now and Zenimax can't have a smooth game play for everyone. So why not make part of the game smoother? Again an idea, not saying this is the correct answer.

ESO is a pure MMO, pure MMO are open world rpg with a large amount of players with online connectivity required. You can't play an MMO 100% solo as another player has a hand in some stuff you do.

Completely wrong.

Everything, literally, has to be done by somebody before any other player interaction can take place.
1) Crafting nodes sit there until gathered by a player who can then choose to use or sell the items.
2) Containers like wardrobes and bags and chests all have to be opened by a player before their items can be used or sold.
3) Gold must be earned by players doing quest and defeating NPCs before it can be spent on anything.
4) Even the rarest items come from drops on a per player basis.
5) If stats could get high enough then even the 12 player trials could be soloed, as other MMOs have shown with their content being soloed and ESO's content being soloed in 4-man dungeons and even some trials before One Tamriel scaling.

The only thing requiring other players is trading, which is easily made pointless by drop rate changes. Even group content only requires a group because numbers of enemies and numbers on boss health bars are multiplied to require it, but those can easily be scaled down also. Gimmick group required mechanics are rare and still just fake group requirements.
Really, nothing truly requires grouping in an mmo, thus why people solo as much as they can.

Mystrius_Archaion · August 2018

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

vometia wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

no, it shouldn't change... it's an mmo.

you signed up to an mmo.

you want a single player game?

play one, there are plenty to choose from.

I'm not really sure why his request is a problem: if it's technically feasible (which is anyone's guess, but things like KoA and Sacred 2 came in essence with a single-player server, as I understand it) then why not? It's not affecting people who want to play it as an MMO and in fact it will probably benefit them by taking players out of the equation who want more Elder Scrolls (let's face it, it's been a while, and IMHO Skyrim was pretty lacklustre) but don't particularly want to be online. Everyone wins, including Zenimax because they then grab all the people who don't play because it's an MMO but would do otherwise.

For me personally, I've been invested in TES for a long time. I'm here for that reason, and I'm here in spite of it being an MMO. It doesn't make a lot of sense to say there's other stuff to choose from if what I'd quite like to play is TES.

Do some research, MMO are built from the ground up to require internet connectivity.

Actually, no they are not.
The developers either have private test servers that use LAN(local area network) or virtual servers on the same computer to test content internally before public tests or the live version. The game just requires something to simulate the server calculations and communication.

If World of Warcraft, which has a lot more money and better anti-cheat software and everything, has private servers for people that can essentially solo then every MMO can have a solo version through a personal server without any internet required, and that is one step away from offline versions.

Mystrius_Archaion · August 2018

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

Just play on the PTS. It's way less populated and you can easily get any gear you want. Basically single-player cheat mode.

Another example of how an offline mode for the game would actually work well. They already prove it has a similar version already on the PTS.

Mystrius_Archaion · August 2018

Odnoc wrote: »

Too much info server-side, wouldn't work. That's how MMO's are designed.

Easy answer, move the server calculations into a separate ".exe" that communicates to eso.exe.
That's actually how servers really work, just a lot longer connection between the programs and more of them.

Mystrius_Archaion · August 2018

I don't understand the posts here....

Why are people arguing that "this can't be done" when it definitely can be done and they should really just be arguing "it should not be done" if any argument at all?
At least then it wouldn't be easy to refute their post with proof that it can be done and it would distill this thread down to the very essence of the argument between "we should have offline mode" and "we should not have offline mode" as a personal preference, which is why there should be an offline mode for those who prefer that.

Mystrius_Archaion · August 2018

dave011 wrote: »

The day this happens will be my last!

"If everyone else leaves me then I'll leave them!"

Mystrius_Archaion · August 2018

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

The game isn't designed that way and never will be.

Never say never or maybe pigs will fly and hell will freeze over.

My parents would have said the world we live in would never exist as it is if you told them before it snuck up on them.
The ESO developers can do anything they want given enough time/money and ideas.

RedRook · August 2018

I think it's probably just too late for ESO to try out having an offline mode. It's been out for years and they're not all that good at keeping it maintained as it already stands, I just wouldn't expect this to ever happen.

It's not a terrible idea. It would probably be most helpful for people playing in countries where they can't get good ping no matter how the tech gods are feeling on any given day. VMA with no lag even in Australia! But yeah, there would be abuses, and no, I have no faith ZOS could overcome that.

The only MMORPG I know of that has an offline mode keeps your online and offline progress strictly segregated: Shroud of the Avatar. Single Player Offline: Enjoy the full game experience without the need for an internet connection. Recruit NPC companions to accompany you on your travels and aid you in times of need. Your online Avatar will not share the progress of your offline Avatar; you advance on different tracks through the story due to interacting differently with the world. Haven't tried it because the game doesn't look fun to me, but if that goes well for them maybe we'll see it in more MMOs in the future. I'd be interested in a game I could play offline that had a huge world to explore and ongoing content updates for years.

Azuramoonstar · August 2018

RedRook wrote: »

I think it's probably just too late for ESO to try out having an offline mode. It's been out for years and they're not all that good at keeping it maintained as it already stands, I just wouldn't expect this to ever happen.

It's not a terrible idea. It would probably be most helpful for people playing in countries where they can't get good ping no matter how the tech gods are feeling on any given day. VMA with no lag even in Australia! But yeah, there would be abuses, and no, I have no faith ZOS could overcome that.

The only MMORPG I know of that has an offline mode keeps your online and offline progress strictly segregated: Shroud of the Avatar. Single Player Offline: Enjoy the full game experience without the need for an internet connection. Recruit NPC companions to accompany you on your travels and aid you in times of need. Your online Avatar will not share the progress of your offline Avatar; you advance on different tracks through the story due to interacting differently with the world. Haven't tried it because the game doesn't look fun to me, but if that goes well for them maybe we'll see it in more MMOs in the future. I'd be interested in a game I could play offline that had a huge world to explore and ongoing content updates for years.

Looked into it, isn't that an early access game from kickstarter and mostly an oprg. It doesn't state it is an mmo but multiplayer rpg which was commonly called orpg. Looks like a similar premiss to guild wars and pso. 2 other orpg.

Ohtimbar · August 2018

It's certainly doable, but it won't be done. We can't even get a passable in-game mail system ffs, so a major project like offline mode is extremely unlikely. I wouldn't object to it in any way, but again, it will never ever happen.

Minyassa · August 2018

What I'd like even better would be to host our own private servers, like the original NWN had, so you could invite your friends and play with just the people you want to play with. Maybe just a MORPG, get rid of the massively part. Letting us play without the griefers and bad sports and jerks and cheaters and bots and trolls would make it a lot better experience. I'd pay an extra sub fee for that.

ZOS_Mika · August 2018

We have recently removed a few unnecessary comments. Please keep this discussion civil and constructive. Thank you for your understanding.

LadyNalcarya · August 2018

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

I don't understand the posts here....

Why are people arguing that "this can't be done" when it definitely can be done and they should really just be arguing "it should not be done" if any argument at all?
At least then it wouldn't be easy to refute their post with proof that it can be done and it would distill this thread down to the very essence of the argument between "we should have offline mode" and "we should not have offline mode" as a personal preference, which is why there should be an offline mode for those who prefer that.

"I want an offline mode, and I don't care that the game will be ruined by cheaters for everyone who prefers online version".
Because you must be really naive if you think it wont be like this. At the moment, ESO anticheat cannot even autodetect botting software, there's no reason to believe they will do anything to stop you from modifying your files in offline mode.

Bruccius · August 2018

An offline mode for an online game sounds beyond silly, though I would really like a singleplayer edition of the game.

That's why I hope that when ESO is starting to die out a bit, rather than pulling the plug and all your progress being lost, you actually get the game as singleplayer.

Is that a realistic idea? Certainly not, but I still hope it. An offline mode is almost certainly not coming.

Sylvermynx · August 2018

What I really want is to be able to leave steam offline. Yeah, I know that's not possible, but their latest stupidity is their own "chat/friends" client, and even if I close that, since the "upgrade" with that steam is using up a lot of my bandwidth behind the scenes. Usage went from a percent or so a day for the game to 5 percent with steam's new "fun tool".

I might have to see if I can get support to unlink me from steam - I have very little bw available, and steam is eating it all.

Stovahkiin · August 2018

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

I don't understand the posts here....

Why are people arguing that "this can't be done" when it definitely can be done and they should really just be arguing "it should not be done" if any argument at all?
At least then it wouldn't be easy to refute their post with proof that it can be done and it would distill this thread down to the very essence of the argument between "we should have offline mode" and "we should not have offline mode" as a personal preference, which is why there should be an offline mode for those who prefer that.

I hate to break it to you, but constantly using the underline and bold keys in your posts really don’t make them more convincing.

jlmurra2 · August 2018

This topic makes me think of a time in the future when the servers will be eventually shut down, as it will happen one day.

At that time I would appreciate an off-line single player version, but only then.

Much work would have to be done to the game as it functions now. This task would probably fall to modders as I doubt there would be enough, if any profit in doing such a thing.

vometia · August 2018

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

Lastly, no true MMO has an offline mode. MMO have existed since the early 90s, and prior to those you had text based MUD which have been out since the 80s from what i heard/read.

They did indeed. I briefly played one in 1987 but quickly got tired of people yelling stupid stuff in the chatbox: how times change!

But I still don't entirely accept that stuff like ESO can't be both MMO and single--player; though I do accept that it would be impractical and inadvisable to allow unrestricted transfer of characters and assets between the two media.

Azuramoonstar · August 2018

vometia wrote: »

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

Lastly, no true MMO has an offline mode. MMO have existed since the early 90s, and prior to those you had text based MUD which have been out since the 80s from what i heard/read.

They did indeed. I briefly played one in 1987 but quickly got tired of people yelling stupid stuff in the chatbox: how times change!

But I still don't entirely accept that stuff like ESO can't be both MMO and single--player; though I do accept that it would be impractical and inadvisable to allow unrestricted transfer of characters and assets between the two media.

do more research into it then. MMO are hosted on servers, none of the games data is on our pc or console, just textures and net connections. All the game data is server side not client side. Single player games are hosted client side.
All single player games with a multiplayer aspect similar to MMO (but not the same as an mmo) are call orpg, or online role play game. It is more of a psuedo mmo as you have a hub area, and then go off on instanced areas. One such set games are like this is the phantasy star games. Which have a single player mode with optional online mode. Games like guild wars 1 was also an orpg as it did the hub + instanced areas.

A bit of research goes a long way. MMO are too big to have 2 clients. I also did some research into avatar of the shrouds and it is a early access orpg, NOT an mmo. the 2 guys making it do have MMO backgrounds, but the game is just a multiplayer rpg, not an MMO.

Ragebull · August 2018

It’s a shame we have to contemplate an offline mode just because ZOS doesn’t want to fix the servers

Also, implementing an offline mode would take work from ZOS, so that ain’t happening (unless you can buy offline mode via crown store)

Azuramoonstar · August 2018

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

Davor wrote: »

I would like to thank everyone for the good comments. I have learned some stuff. Thank you.

As for cheating, why can't we play off line and then when we go online, there is a program to see if the game has been cheated? The game can verify if the game was played without cheats. Again, I am not knowledgeable but I thought lots of things can be done in this day and age now.

Also if people are off line, wouldn't that help the online people? Isn't that what lots of us are asking for? Better online play? I can understand if ESO was a pure MMO but it's not a pure MMO so why not let the un MMO stuff be off line. It's been over 4 years now and Zenimax can't have a smooth game play for everyone. So why not make part of the game smoother? Again an idea, not saying this is the correct answer.

ESO is a pure MMO, pure MMO are open world rpg with a large amount of players with online connectivity required. You can't play an MMO 100% solo as another player has a hand in some stuff you do.

Completely wrong.

Everything, literally, has to be done by somebody before any other player interaction can take place.
1) Crafting nodes sit there until gathered by a player who can then choose to use or sell the items.
2) Containers like wardrobes and bags and chests all have to be opened by a player before their items can be used or sold.
3) Gold must be earned by players doing quest and defeating NPCs before it can be spent on anything.
4) Even the rarest items come from drops on a per player basis.
5) If stats could get high enough then even the 12 player trials could be soloed, as other MMOs have shown with their content being soloed and ESO's content being soloed in 4-man dungeons and even some trials before One Tamriel scaling.

The only thing requiring other players is trading, which is easily made pointless by drop rate changes. Even group content only requires a group because numbers of enemies and numbers on boss health bars are multiplied to require it, but those can easily be scaled down also. Gimmick group required mechanics are rare and still just fake group requirements.
Really, nothing truly requires grouping in an mmo, thus why people solo as much as they can.

must have skipped over the "some" part of that. I never said everything, i said SOME.

still gotta learn the game, which in most cases (not all) is done from other players. etc.

been playing an MMO a long time, seems to me you have too much pride and can't be humbled by the thought other players have a hand in stuff you do at times.

vometia · August 2018

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

do more research into it then. MMO are hosted on servers, none of the games data is on our pc or console, just textures and net connections. All the game data is server side not client side. Single player games are hosted client side. [snip]

I don't really buy the argument that it's "too big" to run on the client side. Okay, I admit that I don't have a lot of direct experience with coding MMOs, but I do have a lot of experience programming client-server stuff and it's typically not the case that the server is a vast resource-intensive beast except inasmuch as it needs to maintain a large number of clients and information pertaining to them all. Most of the assets that are seen from the client side of ESO are already on the PC anyway: it would simply be way too inefficient to attempt to transfer anything but the most minor amount of information in real-time, which indicates to me that it is not outside the realm of possibility that a single-user server could be hosted on one's PC.

Of course actually converting a large multi-user system into a single-user one if its design isn't already conducive to doing so may be a prohibitive amount of effort, but based on my own experience, my inclination is that development effort (well, and politics) would be the stumbling block rather than the resources required to host it.

DanteYoda · August 2018

OP you might like a game called Kingdoms of Amalur : Reckoning.. Its similar to this game in every way except its totally singleplayer.

In many ways its actually better than ESO imo. Its also pretty cheap these days and it was an amazing game.

starkerealm · August 2018

vometia wrote: »

Of course actually converting a large multi-user system into a single-user one if its design isn't already conducive to doing so may be a prohibitive amount of effort, but based on my own experience, my inclination is that development effort (well, and politics) would be the stumbling block rather than the resources required to host it.

Yeah, the time and resources necessary are the big issue here. Maintaining a separate fork for single player would be a nightmare.

vometia · August 2018

starkerealm wrote: »

vometia wrote: »

Of course actually converting a large multi-user system into a single-user one if its design isn't already conducive to doing so may be a prohibitive amount of effort, but based on my own experience, my inclination is that development effort (well, and politics) would be the stumbling block rather than the resources required to host it.

Yeah, the time and resources necessary are the big issue here. Maintaining a separate fork for single player would be a nightmare.

In theory, they could use the same back-end for both, perhaps minus some of the more gnarly licenced bits, as with the likes of Construction Set, for instance; but in practice, I imagine they didn't plan for that. Pity, as a stand-alone "Elder Scrolls Offline" would be a nice contingency for when the servers are eventually shut down, but I guess "buy our shiny new thing" will be the official response.

Dr_Rektar · August 2018

Lets check on GTA V. The GTA online has plenty of holes in it, where you can spawn tons of money, vehicles etc or exploit stuff to oneshot players. Want same thing with ESO?

Chaos2088 · August 2018

I get the logic of what you meant......but I do not think it would be even manageable without seriously rewriting the base code of the game...plus some.....so I doubt very much it would happen.

ktdotexe · August 2018

I'd like an offline mode only if the main online servers shut down, so I could continue my adventures solo. I'd be sad, but also happy that my character was still 'alive', so it would be bittersweet.

Mantis187 · August 2018

new elder scrolls SP is coming, just a matter of time....