Nice-Born-Star - An all-round Setup for Battlegrounds

Brutusmax1mus · August 2018

Often the 2 thru 4 pcs are superior options over tbs, and sets like spriggans can be front barred, allowing for 2pc agility for an additional 1400 stam.

The point is if your focus for tbs is for it to be your damage set, there are better options. If you're planning on changing the 2nd mundus a lot, then it's a great option for the flexibility, but carrying alternate sets is still a better option in reality.

Thlepse · August 2018

when i would use the TBS setups i would run thief + apprentice/warrior with 3 willpower/agility + monster set+ DSA staff/vma 2handed

old days you didnt need to stack so much mitigation cause overall damage was lower compared to what people can pull off today

when 1 Tamalam dropped i would use 5 tbs 5 spinner/spriggan 1 kena

but its really a gimped setup, like the person above said youre better off carrying a few setups with you for example i generally run around with

1 zergsurf setup (gotta be honest yo)
1 solo setup
1 tbagger revenge setup
1 """"fun""""" setup

Rianai · August 2018

Masel92 wrote: »

Many mundus stones are still superior to their equivalent 5-piece sets:

Lover = 4196 Spell and Physical Pen, while Spinner/Spriggan = 3450
Apprentice/Warrior = 365 SD/WD, while julianos/Hundings = 299
Mage/Tower = 3096 Unconditional stamina/magicka, while necropotence is 3150 only with pet and draugr hulk is 2540.
Atronach/Serpent are 363, and there is no equivalent set that gives simple regen (amberplasm gives 250 each but that's only valid on magicka).
Thief gives 10.7% critical, and is better than leviathan/sorrow with 8.78%.

How did you run TBS in the old days? Impen and cps were the only way to get critical resistance back then, or am I missing something.

Not really fair comparisons, because you are comparing a 5p set bonus including armor traits to set boni alone. So it's more like 4196 pen vs 3450 pen + 27% crit resistance in case of Spinner/Spriggan. And are 746 additional penetration really worth more than 27% crit resistance? Or big cost reductions to block or dodge?

Divines is simply an inefficient armor trait, compared to impen, well-fitted or sturdy. It becomes most obvious when comparing impen to divines with shadow mundus. Less than 5% crit dmg bonus vs 27% crit dmg reduction. It's not even close.

Yes, TBS basically doubles the benefits from divines, but it is still kinda subpar compared to some other traits. The problem is that TBS needs divine traits to be "good" and divines is ... meh. So despite the synergy between TBS and divines other combinations will usually still result in better, well ... results.

A few examples:

This is a TBS + Impreg build (magblade). Not exactly the same as your stats, due to different class/buffs/skills/whatever, but still fairly close i'd say.

This is the same build just with different gear (Shackle + Trans + 1x WP). Dmg, sustain and defense are pretty much the same, but it offeres support in addition.

This is Impreg + Shackle. Again i can get pretty similar dmg and sustain, but with even more crit resistance.

Yes the difference isn't huge and i don't want to devalue your build. But you asked why it isn't a common build and i think this explains it quite well. It is simply not optimal. Once flexibility isn't a concern, there isn't really a reason to run TBS.

Masel · August 2018

Rianai wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

Many mundus stones are still superior to their equivalent 5-piece sets:

Lover = 4196 Spell and Physical Pen, while Spinner/Spriggan = 3450
Apprentice/Warrior = 365 SD/WD, while julianos/Hundings = 299
Mage/Tower = 3096 Unconditional stamina/magicka, while necropotence is 3150 only with pet and draugr hulk is 2540.
Atronach/Serpent are 363, and there is no equivalent set that gives simple regen (amberplasm gives 250 each but that's only valid on magicka).
Thief gives 10.7% critical, and is better than leviathan/sorrow with 8.78%.

How did you run TBS in the old days? Impen and cps were the only way to get critical resistance back then, or am I missing something.

Not really fair comparisons, because you are comparing a 5p set bonus including armor traits to set boni alone. So it's more like 4196 pen vs 3450 pen + 27% crit resistance in case of Spinner/Spriggan. And are 746 additional penetration really worth more than 27% crit resistance? Or big cost reductions to block or dodge?

Divines is simply an inefficient armor trait, compared to impen, well-fitted or sturdy. It becomes most obvious when comparing impen to divines with shadow mundus. Less than 5% crit dmg bonus vs 27% crit dmg reduction. It's not even close.

Yes, TBS and divines benefit from the synergy between those two. But other combinations can still result in better, well ... results.

A few examples:

This is a TBS + Impreg build (magblade). Not exactly the same as your stats, due to different class/buffs/skills/whatever, but still fairly close i'd say.

This is the same build just with different gear (Shackle + Trans + 1x WP). Dmg, sustain and defense are pretty much the same, but it offeres support in addition.

This is Impreg + Shackle. Again i can get pretty similar dmg and sustain, but with even more crit resistance.

Yes the difference isn't huge and i don't want to devalue your build. But you asked why it isn't a common build and i think this explains it quite well. It is simply not optimal. Once flexibility isn't a concern, there isn't really a reason to run TBS.

I get what you're staying, but again, you forgot that divines also buffs your first mundus stone by 52.5%. So it effectively gives you 746 Penetration and 129 Weapon/Spell damage, recovery or whatever you need. I'd be interested in the full builds though, can you share me a links to them on uesp?

Emma_Overload · August 2018

TBS is good if you are a mag sorc who uses Dawnbreaker as an ult. Thief + Lover boosts your Dawnbreaker damage for free!

Rianai · August 2018

Masel92 wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

Many mundus stones are still superior to their equivalent 5-piece sets:

Lover = 4196 Spell and Physical Pen, while Spinner/Spriggan = 3450
Apprentice/Warrior = 365 SD/WD, while julianos/Hundings = 299
Mage/Tower = 3096 Unconditional stamina/magicka, while necropotence is 3150 only with pet and draugr hulk is 2540.
Atronach/Serpent are 363, and there is no equivalent set that gives simple regen (amberplasm gives 250 each but that's only valid on magicka).
Thief gives 10.7% critical, and is better than leviathan/sorrow with 8.78%.

How did you run TBS in the old days? Impen and cps were the only way to get critical resistance back then, or am I missing something.

Not really fair comparisons, because you are comparing a 5p set bonus including armor traits to set boni alone. So it's more like 4196 pen vs 3450 pen + 27% crit resistance in case of Spinner/Spriggan. And are 746 additional penetration really worth more than 27% crit resistance? Or big cost reductions to block or dodge?

Divines is simply an inefficient armor trait, compared to impen, well-fitted or sturdy. It becomes most obvious when comparing impen to divines with shadow mundus. Less than 5% crit dmg bonus vs 27% crit dmg reduction. It's not even close.

Yes, TBS and divines benefit from the synergy between those two. But other combinations can still result in better, well ... results.

A few examples:

This is a TBS + Impreg build (magblade). Not exactly the same as your stats, due to different class/buffs/skills/whatever, but still fairly close i'd say.

This is the same build just with different gear (Shackle + Trans + 1x WP). Dmg, sustain and defense are pretty much the same, but it offeres support in addition.

This is Impreg + Shackle. Again i can get pretty similar dmg and sustain, but with even more crit resistance.

Yes the difference isn't huge and i don't want to devalue your build. But you asked why it isn't a common build and i think this explains it quite well. It is simply not optimal. Once flexibility isn't a concern, there isn't really a reason to run TBS.

I get what you're staying, but again, you forgot that divines also buffs your first mundus stone by 52.5%. So it effectively gives you 746 Penetration and 129 Weapon/Spell damage, recovery or whatever you need. I'd be interested in the full builds though, can you share me a links to them on uesp?

TBS + Impreg: http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=78588
Shackle + Trans: http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=66388
Shackle + Impreg: http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=78593

Keep in mind that i didn't try to optimize those builds, i just tried to get similar dmg, sustain and health on all builds (and similar to the stats you posted) for easier comparison.

Masel · August 2018

Rianai wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

Many mundus stones are still superior to their equivalent 5-piece sets:

Lover = 4196 Spell and Physical Pen, while Spinner/Spriggan = 3450
Apprentice/Warrior = 365 SD/WD, while julianos/Hundings = 299
Mage/Tower = 3096 Unconditional stamina/magicka, while necropotence is 3150 only with pet and draugr hulk is 2540.
Atronach/Serpent are 363, and there is no equivalent set that gives simple regen (amberplasm gives 250 each but that's only valid on magicka).
Thief gives 10.7% critical, and is better than leviathan/sorrow with 8.78%.

How did you run TBS in the old days? Impen and cps were the only way to get critical resistance back then, or am I missing something.

Not really fair comparisons, because you are comparing a 5p set bonus including armor traits to set boni alone. So it's more like 4196 pen vs 3450 pen + 27% crit resistance in case of Spinner/Spriggan. And are 746 additional penetration really worth more than 27% crit resistance? Or big cost reductions to block or dodge?

Divines is simply an inefficient armor trait, compared to impen, well-fitted or sturdy. It becomes most obvious when comparing impen to divines with shadow mundus. Less than 5% crit dmg bonus vs 27% crit dmg reduction. It's not even close.

Yes, TBS and divines benefit from the synergy between those two. But other combinations can still result in better, well ... results.

A few examples:

This is a TBS + Impreg build (magblade). Not exactly the same as your stats, due to different class/buffs/skills/whatever, but still fairly close i'd say.

This is the same build just with different gear (Shackle + Trans + 1x WP). Dmg, sustain and defense are pretty much the same, but it offeres support in addition.

This is Impreg + Shackle. Again i can get pretty similar dmg and sustain, but with even more crit resistance.

Yes the difference isn't huge and i don't want to devalue your build. But you asked why it isn't a common build and i think this explains it quite well. It is simply not optimal. Once flexibility isn't a concern, there isn't really a reason to run TBS.

I get what you're staying, but again, you forgot that divines also buffs your first mundus stone by 52.5%. So it effectively gives you 746 Penetration and 129 Weapon/Spell damage, recovery or whatever you need. I'd be interested in the full builds though, can you share me a links to them on uesp?

TBS + Impreg: http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=78588
Shackle + Trans: http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=66388
Shackle + Impreg: http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=78593

Keep in mind that i didn't try to optimize those builds, i just tried to get similar dmg, sustain and health on all builds (and similar to the stats you posted) for easier comparison.

Thanks, nice!

Masel · August 2018

Rianai wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

Many mundus stones are still superior to their equivalent 5-piece sets:

Lover = 4196 Spell and Physical Pen, while Spinner/Spriggan = 3450
Apprentice/Warrior = 365 SD/WD, while julianos/Hundings = 299
Mage/Tower = 3096 Unconditional stamina/magicka, while necropotence is 3150 only with pet and draugr hulk is 2540.
Atronach/Serpent are 363, and there is no equivalent set that gives simple regen (amberplasm gives 250 each but that's only valid on magicka).
Thief gives 10.7% critical, and is better than leviathan/sorrow with 8.78%.

How did you run TBS in the old days? Impen and cps were the only way to get critical resistance back then, or am I missing something.

Not really fair comparisons, because you are comparing a 5p set bonus including armor traits to set boni alone. So it's more like 4196 pen vs 3450 pen + 27% crit resistance in case of Spinner/Spriggan. And are 746 additional penetration really worth more than 27% crit resistance? Or big cost reductions to block or dodge?

Divines is simply an inefficient armor trait, compared to impen, well-fitted or sturdy. It becomes most obvious when comparing impen to divines with shadow mundus. Less than 5% crit dmg bonus vs 27% crit dmg reduction. It's not even close.

Yes, TBS and divines benefit from the synergy between those two. But other combinations can still result in better, well ... results.

A few examples:

This is a TBS + Impreg build (magblade). Not exactly the same as your stats, due to different class/buffs/skills/whatever, but still fairly close i'd say.

This is the same build just with different gear (Shackle + Trans + 1x WP). Dmg, sustain and defense are pretty much the same, but it offeres support in addition.

This is Impreg + Shackle. Again i can get pretty similar dmg and sustain, but with even more crit resistance.

Yes the difference isn't huge and i don't want to devalue your build. But you asked why it isn't a common build and i think this explains it quite well. It is simply not optimal. Once flexibility isn't a concern, there isn't really a reason to run TBS.

I get what you're staying, but again, you forgot that divines also buffs your first mundus stone by 52.5%. So it effectively gives you 746 Penetration and 129 Weapon/Spell damage, recovery or whatever you need. I'd be interested in the full builds though, can you share me a links to them on uesp?

TBS + Impreg: http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=78588
Shackle + Trans: http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=66388
Shackle + Impreg: http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=78593

Keep in mind that i didn't try to optimize those builds, i just tried to get similar dmg, sustain and health on all builds (and similar to the stats you posted) for easier comparison.

Your TBS build misses ~186 spell damage because for a reason the impregnable inferno staff on that one only gives 1180 spell damage... The TBS Build gets to roughly 180 more effective spell power through that. Not a lot, but still

Here are the correct stats:

Rianai · August 2018

You are right. Weird bug. No idea what is causing this, but swapping the Impreg staff for a TBS one fixes it. But my point still remains imo. This puts TBS ~ 50 effective spellpower above the Trans build, but is that worth the same as 20% crit resistance for the whole team? And impreg can be paired with more dmg oriented sets than shackle for pretty much the same dmg while still retaining higher tankyness thanks to impen traits (though with a small tradeoff in the stamina (or magicka for stam builds) department - depends on the build and playstyle whether that's an issue).

Overall it is nice to see that "stat sets" tend to be relatively balanced compared to each other - now if that would be the case with proc sets too ...

Metemsycosis · August 2018

This is super close to if not exactly what I wanna do on my Magicka DK. (but with well fitted because I love the dodge mechanic)

Nice work op

Metemsycosis · August 2018

I've heard of double but triple

Metemsycosis · August 2018

...

Masel · August 2018

Rianai wrote: »

You are right. Weird bug. No idea what is causing this, but swapping the Impreg staff for a TBS one fixes it. But my point still remains imo. This puts TBS ~ 50 effective spellpower above the Trans build, but is that worth the same as 20% crit resistance for the whole team? And impreg can be paired with more dmg oriented sets than shackle for pretty much the same dmg while still retaining higher tankyness thanks to impen traits (though with a small tradeoff in the stamina (or magicka for stam builds) department - depends on the build and playstyle whether that's an issue).

Overall it is nice to see that "stat sets" tend to be relatively balanced compared to each other - now if that would be the case with proc sets too ...

Yeah,proc sets are an issue, especially in no cp... If u see one more lethal arrow+sloads+skoria on my death recap

kaithuzar · August 2018

I’m going to play the bad guy here.
Let me start off by saying I tried this combo about a year ago & the end result was “meh”.

Sure a good player can make anything decent work but it was just nothing great & wasn’t even better than the stuff I was already running. TBS just isn’t that great for pvp imo.

So I scraped TBS & recently tried a new combo, which is better but not quite as good as my normal setup.
IMO, impreg alone on a magic build is not enough survivability to 1vx in unless you build this way:
Heavy chest, heavy head or legs, the rest light.
Heavy pieces reinforced, light pieces nirnhoned, make sure it’s on both bars & sets must be gold.
This is the only way I would ever consider running impreg over my current build. Also, tri-stat glyphs on almost everything; balance it out so you have 12-12.5 stam. Your max magic will be low, but you can build for higher regen; need at least 1.8k + siphoning attacks.

My impreg build is:
5 impreg (both bars), 5 spinners (front bar only), 2 willpower rings, 1 resto of your choice (masters is probably best), 1 infused reduce cost enchant, 2 infused spell damage enchants, sharpened 2h, atro regen mundus.

I think I was using max mag + mag regen food with this.
To be honest, I haven’t finished golding everything but in its current state with half purple & half gold it wasn’t quite giving me the damage mitigation I wanted in comparison to my normal build, however, this build is leaps & bounds above what most people are running; so glhf

-Kai

mursie · August 2018

Masel92 wrote: »

Thing is that I don't really like the blocking and roll-dodging builds... So these traits won't really do a lot for my playstyle.

Thing is.... if you don't like blocking or roll dodging - then you must like dieing. that's the thing. The thing is literally that. There is no other thing. Outside of cloak - block and roll dodge are about as efficient a defensive mechanic as the game offers - and your thing is indicating you like neither of them. wow. what a thing. get another thing. really. try the thing that you're not liking. live longer. do it!

JUST DO IT!

Masel · August 2018

mursie wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

Thing is that I don't really like the blocking and roll-dodging builds... So these traits won't really do a lot for my playstyle.

Thing is.... if you don't like blocking or roll dodging - then you must like dieing. that's the thing. The thing is literally that. There is no other thing. Outside of cloak - block and roll dodge are about as efficient a defensive mechanic as the game offers - and you're thing is indicating you like neither of them. wow. what a thing. get another thing. really. try the thing that you're not liking. live longer. do it!

JUST DO IT!

Erm... Nope

I'll stick with what I like, and dying is definetely not the thing I like

JAwtunes · August 2018

Nice idea! I haven't thought about TBS on a more conventional build tbh but pairing with a good defensive set (as you have) looks interesting. As someone else said, I would drop the weapons and go for a monster set - but this is in part because I am too lazy to farm most things in the game, and thankfully I have been able to buy most of the monster sets since the golden vendor was added.

You probably already know, or someone may have mentioned it, but TBS became a good option for high dmg burst builds in cyro when ZOS completely overhauled the Mundus stones a while back.

Urvoth · August 2018

Has anyone tried TBS on a magsorc recently? I'm thinking of trying it with shacklebreaker now that jewelry is craftable.

Amdar_Godkiller · August 2018

Divines is just too weak in PVP for this to be a good option. I've pondered it before when theorycrafting an argonian healer build using the shadow and the ritual on a magwarden to get my healing done and crit modifier up to about 200%.

Masel · August 2018

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

Divines is just too weak in PVP for this to be a good option. I've pondered it before when theorycrafting an argonian healer build using the shadow and the ritual on a magwarden to get my healing done and crit modifier up to about 200%.

Getting your critical modifier to 200% is not useful damagewise anyway. If you wanted to use the shadow then the results are never good. It is the weakest of all the offensive mundus stones. Shadow does not apply to healing anyway if I remember correctly. Ritual however is an insane amount of healing, flat 15% on any healing done, no other five piece gets even close to that.

I listed effective mundus stones above, which yield me very good results in battlegrounds and in cyrodiil.

Masel · August 2018

Urvoth wrote: »

Has anyone tried TBS on a magsorc recently? I'm thinking of trying it with shacklebreaker now that jewelry is craftable.

TBS is only good if you use Divines, otherwise there are a lot of other better options out there. You'd be a real glasscannon, but you can definetely wreck things with TBS+shackle. On a magsorc the burst should be quite nice, and the bit of health and stam never hurts.

Amdar_Godkiller · August 2018

Masel92 wrote: »

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

Divines is just too weak in PVP for this to be a good option. I've pondered it before when theorycrafting an argonian healer build using the shadow and the ritual on a magwarden to get my healing done and crit modifier up to about 200%.

Getting your critical modifier to 200% is not useful damagewise anyway. If you wanted to use the shadow then the results are never good. It is the weakest of all the offensive mundus stones. Shadow does not apply to healing anyway if I remember correctly. Ritual however is an insane amount of healing, flat 15% on any healing done, no other five piece gets even close to that.

I listed effective mundus stones above, which yield me very good results in battlegrounds and in cyrodiil.

It was for critical healing, not for damage. The goal was to get 4x base healing using healing done and crit modifier, with another 50% buff to healing received, which put me at 600% healing when I crit.

Amdar_Godkiller · August 2018

Masel92 wrote: »

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

Divines is just too weak in PVP for this to be a good option. I've pondered it before when theorycrafting an argonian healer build using the shadow and the ritual on a magwarden to get my healing done and crit modifier up to about 200%.

Getting your critical modifier to 200% is not useful damagewise anyway. If you wanted to use the shadow then the results are never good. It is the weakest of all the offensive mundus stones. Shadow does not apply to healing anyway if I remember correctly. Ritual however is an insane amount of healing, flat 15% on any healing done, no other five piece gets even close to that.

I listed effective mundus stones above, which yield me very good results in battlegrounds and in cyrodiil.

There are no effective mundus options was my point, because impen provides 8-10 times the buff to mitigation that divines can possibly provide as a damage buff. The only reason to ever use impen is in order to utilize full well-fittd or full sturdy in PVP. That's its purpose.

The Ritual and the Lover are the two strongest mundi, for what it's worth in PVP.

The ritual becomes stronger based on your crit damage modifier, healing taken bonuses, and healing received bonuses. They work multiplicatively. And with the Vengeance champion point passive "Guarantees your next spell will be a critical hit, after you block 3 spells within 10 seconds of each other", high crit damage means an almost guaranteed huge burst heal whenever you "turtle" up in high pressure situations.

I suppose an argument could be made for the serpent or atronach, but those two are arguably worse with divines than they'd be with 7 invigorating for the most part. You give up only about 40 resource recovery of one resource type to get nearly 80 of the other two.

kaithuzar · August 2018

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

Divines is just too weak in PVP for this to be a good option. I've pondered it before when theorycrafting an argonian healer build using the shadow and the ritual on a magwarden to get my healing done and crit modifier up to about 200%.

Getting your critical modifier to 200% is not useful damagewise anyway. If you wanted to use the shadow then the results are never good. It is the weakest of all the offensive mundus stones. Shadow does not apply to healing anyway if I remember correctly. Ritual however is an insane amount of healing, flat 15% on any healing done, no other five piece gets even close to that.

I listed effective mundus stones above, which yield me very good results in battlegrounds and in cyrodiil.

It was for critical healing, not for damage. The goal was to get 4x base healing using healing done and crit modifier, with another 50% buff to healing received, which put me at 600% healing when I crit.

You must be thinking of the past. Shadow doesn’t boost crit heals anymore & hasn’t for maybe a year? It only boost crit damage now.

Amdar_Godkiller · August 2018

kaithuzar wrote: »

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

Divines is just too weak in PVP for this to be a good option. I've pondered it before when theorycrafting an argonian healer build using the shadow and the ritual on a magwarden to get my healing done and crit modifier up to about 200%.

Getting your critical modifier to 200% is not useful damagewise anyway. If you wanted to use the shadow then the results are never good. It is the weakest of all the offensive mundus stones. Shadow does not apply to healing anyway if I remember correctly. Ritual however is an insane amount of healing, flat 15% on any healing done, no other five piece gets even close to that.

I listed effective mundus stones above, which yield me very good results in battlegrounds and in cyrodiil.

It was for critical healing, not for damage. The goal was to get 4x base healing using healing done and crit modifier, with another 50% buff to healing received, which put me at 600% healing when I crit.

You must be thinking of the past. Shadow doesn’t boost crit heals anymore & hasn’t for maybe a year? It only boost crit damage now.

It was like a patch ago that it was changed, but yes, this was for a build I was working on a long time ago.

Minno · August 2018

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

Divines is just too weak in PVP for this to be a good option. I've pondered it before when theorycrafting an argonian healer build using the shadow and the ritual on a magwarden to get my healing done and crit modifier up to about 200%.

Getting your critical modifier to 200% is not useful damagewise anyway. If you wanted to use the shadow then the results are never good. It is the weakest of all the offensive mundus stones. Shadow does not apply to healing anyway if I remember correctly. Ritual however is an insane amount of healing, flat 15% on any healing done, no other five piece gets even close to that.

I listed effective mundus stones above, which yield me very good results in battlegrounds and in cyrodiil.

It was for critical healing, not for damage. The goal was to get 4x base healing using healing done and crit modifier, with another 50% buff to healing received, which put me at 600% healing when I crit.

There is an old saying from one of the great templar pvpers; "By mitigating OVERALL damage, you are killing two birds with 1 stone. Reduction to overall damage is a reduction to critical damage."

The same can almost be said for damage/healing; increasing your damage will thus increase your crit dmg and in turn your heals.

Masel · August 2018

Minno wrote: »

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

Divines is just too weak in PVP for this to be a good option. I've pondered it before when theorycrafting an argonian healer build using the shadow and the ritual on a magwarden to get my healing done and crit modifier up to about 200%.

Getting your critical modifier to 200% is not useful damagewise anyway. If you wanted to use the shadow then the results are never good. It is the weakest of all the offensive mundus stones. Shadow does not apply to healing anyway if I remember correctly. Ritual however is an insane amount of healing, flat 15% on any healing done, no other five piece gets even close to that.

I listed effective mundus stones above, which yield me very good results in battlegrounds and in cyrodiil.

It was for critical healing, not for damage. The goal was to get 4x base healing using healing done and crit modifier, with another 50% buff to healing received, which put me at 600% healing when I crit.

There is an old saying from one of the great templar pvpers; "By mitigating OVERALL damage, you are killing two birds with 1 stone. Reduction to overall damage is a reduction to critical damage."

The same can almost be said for damage/healing; increasing your damage will thus increase your crit dmg and in turn your heals.

And the thing is also: your critical hits are usually higher with warrior/apprentice. Shadow literally does not make sense, they overnerfed it a little... It'd be interesting to see how large the difference between apprentice and ritual is in terms of healing output and damage. If the healing is great enough to justify losing the damaged from apprentice, then it might be a good contender.

Minno · August 2018

Masel92 wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

Divines is just too weak in PVP for this to be a good option. I've pondered it before when theorycrafting an argonian healer build using the shadow and the ritual on a magwarden to get my healing done and crit modifier up to about 200%.

Getting your critical modifier to 200% is not useful damagewise anyway. If you wanted to use the shadow then the results are never good. It is the weakest of all the offensive mundus stones. Shadow does not apply to healing anyway if I remember correctly. Ritual however is an insane amount of healing, flat 15% on any healing done, no other five piece gets even close to that.

I listed effective mundus stones above, which yield me very good results in battlegrounds and in cyrodiil.

It was for critical healing, not for damage. The goal was to get 4x base healing using healing done and crit modifier, with another 50% buff to healing received, which put me at 600% healing when I crit.

There is an old saying from one of the great templar pvpers; "By mitigating OVERALL damage, you are killing two birds with 1 stone. Reduction to overall damage is a reduction to critical damage."

The same can almost be said for damage/healing; increasing your damage will thus increase your crit dmg and in turn your heals.

And the thing is also: your critical hits are usually higher with warrior/apprentice. Shadow literally does not make sense, they overnerfed it a little... It'd be interesting to see how large the difference between apprentice and ritual is in terms of healing output and damage. If the healing is great enough to justify losing the damaged from apprentice, then it might be a good contender.

I think if your healing is already at a nice level because your stats are where you need them to be, the healing from mundas/powered is not bad.

But then again apprentice is super efficient for what it does, so its hard to beat it.

Urvoth · August 2018

Masel92 wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

Has anyone tried TBS on a magsorc recently? I'm thinking of trying it with shacklebreaker now that jewelry is craftable.

TBS is only good if you use Divines, otherwise there are a lot of other better options out there. You'd be a real glasscannon, but you can definetely wreck things with TBS+shackle. On a magsorc the burst should be quite nice, and the bit of health and stam never hurts.

Yeah, I'd use divines and The Mage, and then probably either Lover, Apprentice, or Atronarch for the 2nd stone. I'm already using 5 Well-fitted, so that's what I'm mostly concerned about giving up since I'm pretty much a glass cannon already.

Amdar_Godkiller · August 2018

Minno wrote: »

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

Divines is just too weak in PVP for this to be a good option. I've pondered it before when theorycrafting an argonian healer build using the shadow and the ritual on a magwarden to get my healing done and crit modifier up to about 200%.

Getting your critical modifier to 200% is not useful damagewise anyway. If you wanted to use the shadow then the results are never good. It is the weakest of all the offensive mundus stones. Shadow does not apply to healing anyway if I remember correctly. Ritual however is an insane amount of healing, flat 15% on any healing done, no other five piece gets even close to that.

I listed effective mundus stones above, which yield me very good results in battlegrounds and in cyrodiil.

It was for critical healing, not for damage. The goal was to get 4x base healing using healing done and crit modifier, with another 50% buff to healing received, which put me at 600% healing when I crit.

There is an old saying from one of the great templar pvpers; "By mitigating OVERALL damage, you are killing two birds with 1 stone. Reduction to overall damage is a reduction to critical damage."

The same can almost be said for damage/healing; increasing your damage will thus increase your crit dmg and in turn your heals.

I don't think you are understanding me. My purpose was to see how far I could take it. It was an experiment in taking game mechanics to their extreme. It wasn't an issue of taking too much damage or not being able to heal enough, and I was using heals that scaled to both resources as well as those that scaled to neither.

I was trying to see how much I could buff the warden heal that scales to health for example, as well as the light attack heal from lotus. The only way to do that was through healing done, healing received, healing taken, and crit damage modifier.

I agree that the shadow is too weak of a mundus for a traditional single resource meta build. I know the math behind it. At 100% crit chance you'd get about a 9.15% increase to healing/damage done from it, and the lover (in PVE) at its worst provides 8.4% so long as you are not over-penetrating; so to have a shot at beating the Lover, the Shadow would need a crit chance of roughly 92%. The warrior typically adds about 7.5% damage/healing all the time, which means that in order for the shadow to surpass it, you'd need an 82% crit chance and no other modifiers to crit damage, which means that in order for it to win you essentially must gimp your build.

I get that. But when you are trying to buff magicka and stamina based healing and when you are working with skills that scale in manners more unorthodox as well, your greatest benefit to healing strength will come from the ritual and the shadow. You're greatest increase to damage will come from the lover and the shadow in those scenarios.

The goal was thus to see how high of a "healing multiplier" could be created.