Transform stones to be able to sell Trial/Dungeon items?

Bevik · August 2018

Can we have an option to collect 10 stones dropping from Dungeons and Trials with low chance which of those can transform any Trial and Dungeon items sellable? I'm not saying it should be easy to convert them but atleast it can make a bit more flexible to collect sets in a long run. Especially for casuals or people who are not playing that much and don't really have time to farm sets but have enough gold.

redspecter23 · August 2018

Trial and dungeon sets are bound for a reason (I may not completely comprehend the reasoning for all the sets being bound) and if ZOS has any intentions of unbinding some or all of them, I'd prefer they just go ahead and have them drop unbound instead of jumping through hoops to make it happen.

Taleof2Cities · August 2018

The reason, @redspecter23, is that players would not be doing the dungeon or Trials content the gear sets drop in.

Merlin13KAGL · August 2018

Bevik wrote: »

Can we have an option to collect 10 stones dropping from Dungeons and Trials with low chance which of those can transform any Trial and Dungeon items sellable? I'm not saying it should be easy to convert them but atleast it can make a bit more flexible to collect sets in a long run. Especially for casuals or people who are not playing that much and don't really have time to farm sets but have enough gold.

This part makes no sense.

If you have enough time to get large amounts of gold, you have enough time to get gear and Transmute stones. The only cooldown for gear drop is the speed at which you can clear the content. And honestly, if you're that casual, what's the hurry in the first place?

starkerealm · August 2018

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

The reason, @redspecter23, is that players would not be doing the dungeon or Trials content the gear sets drop in.

Yeah, this is the big thing. It's to encourage players to actually run the dungeons. The 50 transmute crystals thing means you don't have to farm until your eyes bleed, but, you do need to go in there.

I mean, I could see a transmute system that let you change the item type, or move the set bonus to a new item, destroying the original, but as for actually unbinding? No.

redspecter23 · August 2018

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

The reason, @redspecter23, is that players would not be doing the dungeon or Trials content the gear sets drop in.

Certainly I understand the reason for some of the sets like monster helms and asylum weapons. Does hircine's veneer need to be bound? Viper's sting? In the past these sets were bind on equip and I don't think that was a reason that players didn't run dungeons. Also, pvp sets are bind on equip and there doesn't seem to be an argument that it causes people to ignore pvp and just buy the sets outright. If there is any population issue in pvp, I don't believe it has anything to do with the sets being unbound.

Bevik · August 2018

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Bevik wrote: »

Can we have an option to collect 10 stones dropping from Dungeons and Trials with low chance which of those can transform any Trial and Dungeon items sellable? I'm not saying it should be easy to convert them but atleast it can make a bit more flexible to collect sets in a long run. Especially for casuals or people who are not playing that much and don't really have time to farm sets but have enough gold.

This part makes no sense.

If you have enough time to get large amounts of gold, you have enough time to get gear and Transmute stones. The only cooldown for gear drop is the speed at which you can clear the content. And honestly, if you're that casual, what's the hurry in the first place?

Would make sense if in the past I had more hours to play so I could collect millions also have a spare little time / day to do daily writs on some chars so can get 100-200k / week easily. But would not spend time waiting for trial groups to form and run for example HRC which is long just to farm a min/max set for 4 of my chars. Hope in this case make sense what I just said.

starkerealm · August 2018

redspecter23 wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

The reason, @redspecter23, is that players would not be doing the dungeon or Trials content the gear sets drop in.

Certainly I understand the reason for some of the sets like monster helms and asylum weapons. Does hircine's veneer need to be bound? Viper's sting? In the past these sets were bind on equip and I don't think that was a reason that players didn't run dungeons. Also, pvp sets are bind on equip and there doesn't seem to be an argument that it causes people to ignore pvp and just buy the sets outright. If there is any population issue in pvp, I don't believe it has anything to do with the sets being unbound.

Yes. Though, it's nothing intrinsic to the sets themselves. You need incentives to get players into those instances. Binding all of the sets in the dungeon makes more sense than binding ones at random.

Also, it kinda makes sense to bind Hircine's, because it is a group focused set. So it makes more sense for you to get it from group content. Same with Ebon, Sanctuary, Worm Cult, and the Aegis and Slayer sets.

redspecter23 · August 2018

starkerealm wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

The reason, @redspecter23, is that players would not be doing the dungeon or Trials content the gear sets drop in.

Certainly I understand the reason for some of the sets like monster helms and asylum weapons. Does hircine's veneer need to be bound? Viper's sting? In the past these sets were bind on equip and I don't think that was a reason that players didn't run dungeons. Also, pvp sets are bind on equip and there doesn't seem to be an argument that it causes people to ignore pvp and just buy the sets outright. If there is any population issue in pvp, I don't believe it has anything to do with the sets being unbound.

Yes. Though, it's nothing intrinsic to the sets themselves. You need incentives to get players into those instances. Binding all of the sets in the dungeon makes more sense than binding ones at random.

Also, it kinda makes sense to bind Hircine's, because it is a group focused set. So it makes more sense for you to get it from group content. Same with Ebon, Sanctuary, Worm Cult, and the Aegis and Slayer sets.

Like I said, I don't understand it with the logical thought process I'm using. I get that there will be different opinions. I just can't imagine that "players won't run dungeons" is the main reason these sets are bound. I have no issues blasting through any dungeon on normal and upgrading/transmuting the gear to be what I'm looking for. Players can get the things they need easily enough, whether it's by speed farming like that or simply buying it off others that have done the same. Either way, someone is running the dungeon for the gear. It's coming from somewhere. The content is being run.

notyuu · August 2018

What if, instead of the stones and stuff, they implement a system which allows you to, once you know all the traits for a particular item, research a set using said item, with a point equivalent based on the set's amount

i.e. you know all 9 traits on resto staves, you can research a spc resto staff to gain 1 point, resarch 4 other items from the spc set and then you can make your own spc set which is boe

Merlin13KAGL · August 2018

notyuu wrote: »

What if, instead of the stones and stuff, they implement a system which allows you to, once you know all the traits for a particular item, research a set using said item, with a point equivalent based on the set's amount

i.e. you know all 9 traits on resto staves, you can research a spc resto staff to gain 1 point, resarch 4 other items from the spc set and then you can make your own spc set which is boe

Because people would no longer run the dungeons, making it that much harder for people that hadn't researched yet to get the sets they're after.

You don't need to get it all in one swoop. Most here acquired the sets they have over multiple runs over multiple time frames.

Add a piece at a time until you're full. Transmute if you need to with the many stones you will have acquired in the process.

starkerealm · August 2018

redspecter23 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

The reason, @redspecter23, is that players would not be doing the dungeon or Trials content the gear sets drop in.

Certainly I understand the reason for some of the sets like monster helms and asylum weapons. Does hircine's veneer need to be bound? Viper's sting? In the past these sets were bind on equip and I don't think that was a reason that players didn't run dungeons. Also, pvp sets are bind on equip and there doesn't seem to be an argument that it causes people to ignore pvp and just buy the sets outright. If there is any population issue in pvp, I don't believe it has anything to do with the sets being unbound.

Yes. Though, it's nothing intrinsic to the sets themselves. You need incentives to get players into those instances. Binding all of the sets in the dungeon makes more sense than binding ones at random.

Also, it kinda makes sense to bind Hircine's, because it is a group focused set. So it makes more sense for you to get it from group content. Same with Ebon, Sanctuary, Worm Cult, and the Aegis and Slayer sets.

Like I said, I don't understand it with the logical thought process I'm using. I get that there will be different opinions. I just can't imagine that "players won't run dungeons" is the main reason these sets are bound. I have no issues blasting through any dungeon on normal and upgrading/transmuting the gear to be what I'm looking for. Players can get the things they need easily enough, whether it's by speed farming like that or simply buying it off others that have done the same. Either way, someone is running the dungeon for the gear. It's coming from somewhere. The content is being run.

That's probably because you're thinking of this in an absolute sense, which isn't true.

If there were no unique rewards for clearing dungeons, it wouldn't create a state where, "no one" did them. You'd still see individual players running the dungeons for the skill points and achievements. You'd still see some players hitting the DLC dungeons for the motifs, cosmetic unlocks, and other goodies.

But, it would shift attention off of replaying the dungeons.

So you wouldn't have a situation where no one ever queued, but you would drastically reduce the size of the dungeon running population at any given moment.

Waffennacht · August 2018

On MA sure.

It's solo so your drops will never effect the world market

redspecter23 · August 2018

starkerealm wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

The reason, @redspecter23, is that players would not be doing the dungeon or Trials content the gear sets drop in.

Certainly I understand the reason for some of the sets like monster helms and asylum weapons. Does hircine's veneer need to be bound? Viper's sting? In the past these sets were bind on equip and I don't think that was a reason that players didn't run dungeons. Also, pvp sets are bind on equip and there doesn't seem to be an argument that it causes people to ignore pvp and just buy the sets outright. If there is any population issue in pvp, I don't believe it has anything to do with the sets being unbound.

Yes. Though, it's nothing intrinsic to the sets themselves. You need incentives to get players into those instances. Binding all of the sets in the dungeon makes more sense than binding ones at random.

Also, it kinda makes sense to bind Hircine's, because it is a group focused set. So it makes more sense for you to get it from group content. Same with Ebon, Sanctuary, Worm Cult, and the Aegis and Slayer sets.

Like I said, I don't understand it with the logical thought process I'm using. I get that there will be different opinions. I just can't imagine that "players won't run dungeons" is the main reason these sets are bound. I have no issues blasting through any dungeon on normal and upgrading/transmuting the gear to be what I'm looking for. Players can get the things they need easily enough, whether it's by speed farming like that or simply buying it off others that have done the same. Either way, someone is running the dungeon for the gear. It's coming from somewhere. The content is being run.

That's probably because you're thinking of this in an absolute sense, which isn't true.

If there were no unique rewards for clearing dungeons, it wouldn't create a state where, "no one" did them. You'd still see individual players running the dungeons for the skill points and achievements. You'd still see some players hitting the DLC dungeons for the motifs, cosmetic unlocks, and other goodies.

But, it would shift attention off of replaying the dungeons.

So you wouldn't have a situation where no one ever queued, but you would drastically reduce the size of the dungeon running population at any given moment.

So why are battleground rewards bind on equip? Shouldn't the same logical process apply there as well? Bound gear would lead to more people using the queue. In the case of battlegrounds, we actually have a situation where people complain about the current size/quality of the queue. Nobody is complaining about nobody running dungeons. People are complaining about a lack of tanks in queues, but binding the gear doesn't lead to a solution there at all.

Bevik · August 2018

Hell would be nice if you wouldn't need to run Trials and Dungeons hundreds of times until you get a desired weapon. Because even with transmute you either buy off a desired item (if it's rare like weapons) or just ask and get it for free. But there is no guarantee anyone is gonna get the item you need, means you still need to run it multiple times which just burns the people out of doing those contents. They can still add extremely powerful moster sets, weapons, motifs to the old Trials and Dungeons if they want to. Which they can drop with like 0.0001%.

therift · August 2018

Bind-on-Pickup gear in Dungeons and Trials is a direct response to the player community asking for exclusive incentives to run that content.

Prior to Update 12 (One Tamriel), gear acquired in Dungeons and Trials could be sold. There weren't any incentives to run the content other than the Skill Point, Achievement, and Title. These are all one-time-only rewards and not particularly useful.

This created several issues:

1.) The pool of players with the skills and experience for end-game content was small and stagnant. End-game players were particularly vocal in their concerns that the lack of incentives to practice group content skills by running Dungeons and Trials repetitively meant few new players were joining the 'end-game' community.

2.) Without incentives for players to run group content more than once or twice, the pool of players available in Group Finder was exceedingly small. Unless a player belonged to a guild that was active in group content, players could expect extremely long queues in Group Finder.

3.) Since gear found acquired in group content could be sold, many players could avoid group content altogether and simply buy the gear they wanted. And since the pool of players farming that gear was very small, supply was scant and prices were very high.

So Zenimax's solution was to provide useful gear and other items that could only be acquired by playing group content. Update 12 introduced something like 30 new gear sets and 17 Monster sets. This meant every Trial and Dungeon had incentives to run the content, learn how to play the content, and improve player skills.

As a corollary, providing Dungeons and Trials with exclusive gear also revitalized group play. Suddenly, everyone wanted to run group content.

As you said, "Nobody is complaining about nobody running Dungeons". You're right. The changes introduced in Update 12 are the main reason why.

starkerealm · August 2018

redspecter23 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

The reason, @redspecter23, is that players would not be doing the dungeon or Trials content the gear sets drop in.

Certainly I understand the reason for some of the sets like monster helms and asylum weapons. Does hircine's veneer need to be bound? Viper's sting? In the past these sets were bind on equip and I don't think that was a reason that players didn't run dungeons. Also, pvp sets are bind on equip and there doesn't seem to be an argument that it causes people to ignore pvp and just buy the sets outright. If there is any population issue in pvp, I don't believe it has anything to do with the sets being unbound.

Yes. Though, it's nothing intrinsic to the sets themselves. You need incentives to get players into those instances. Binding all of the sets in the dungeon makes more sense than binding ones at random.

Also, it kinda makes sense to bind Hircine's, because it is a group focused set. So it makes more sense for you to get it from group content. Same with Ebon, Sanctuary, Worm Cult, and the Aegis and Slayer sets.

Like I said, I don't understand it with the logical thought process I'm using. I get that there will be different opinions. I just can't imagine that "players won't run dungeons" is the main reason these sets are bound. I have no issues blasting through any dungeon on normal and upgrading/transmuting the gear to be what I'm looking for. Players can get the things they need easily enough, whether it's by speed farming like that or simply buying it off others that have done the same. Either way, someone is running the dungeon for the gear. It's coming from somewhere. The content is being run.

That's probably because you're thinking of this in an absolute sense, which isn't true.

If there were no unique rewards for clearing dungeons, it wouldn't create a state where, "no one" did them. You'd still see individual players running the dungeons for the skill points and achievements. You'd still see some players hitting the DLC dungeons for the motifs, cosmetic unlocks, and other goodies.

But, it would shift attention off of replaying the dungeons.

So you wouldn't have a situation where no one ever queued, but you would drastically reduce the size of the dungeon running population at any given moment.

So why are battleground rewards bind on equip? Shouldn't the same logical process apply there as well? Bound gear would lead to more people using the queue. In the case of battlegrounds, we actually have a situation where people complain about the current size/quality of the queue. Nobody is complaining about nobody running dungeons. People are complaining about a lack of tanks in queues, but binding the gear doesn't lead to a solution there at all.

Battlegrounds have stuff that's bind on pickup, including the new outfit pieces. So, that is already a thing.

What is different is that PvP doesn't gate stuff that provides a tangible advantage in combat behind grinding the content.

PlagueSD · August 2018

Bevik wrote: »

Can we have an option to collect 10 stones dropping from Dungeons and Trials with low chance which of those can transform any Trial and Dungeon items sellable? I'm not saying it should be easy to convert them but atleast it can make a bit more flexible to collect sets in a long run. Especially for casuals or people who are not playing that much and don't really have time to farm sets but have enough gold.

Translation:
I don't have enough friends to run trials to get my own gear. Can we do something so all I have to do is buy gear with the gold I collected from all my bots in Grahtwood.

Bevik · August 2018

PlagueSD wrote: »

Bevik wrote: »

Can we have an option to collect 10 stones dropping from Dungeons and Trials with low chance which of those can transform any Trial and Dungeon items sellable? I'm not saying it should be easy to convert them but atleast it can make a bit more flexible to collect sets in a long run. Especially for casuals or people who are not playing that much and don't really have time to farm sets but have enough gold.

Translation:
I don't have enough friends to run trials to get my own gear. Can we do something so all I have to do is buy gear with the gold I collected from all my bots in Grahtwood.

You have a bad translator. I have most of my gears on multiple chars as I farmed them when I had a little more time and still can squeeze more time to run contents I want sets from. Have enough friends and guilds to be able to run all the necessary contents. And thanks but I don't need bots to have millions as it is so easy to get gold without any hardcore farm. PvE gear won't hurt anyone anyway. In this game actually gears are not as overpowered as in other games.