Cously wrote: »

If you consider collecting skyshards playing the game, you really haven't played the game. I only play a single character since day 1 so for me is irrelevant but I can empathize with others that don't care for that grind and just want to jump into the game. It is a fair request. Also neither side really has a point since ZOS have lots of stuff account wide and lots of stuff character wide. It's about time we get some consistency. Tell me, honestly, who will ever complete all motifs in several characters? Bovine excrement! No account wide motifs but can use them in outfits and can use the colours of achievements they don't have. I can wear my Emperor armour on my lv.1 noob but can't have the title. CP are account wide but not skyshards. Is it even an argument how broken the character would be with skill points at level 1 loooool. If the player did it, he should have access to it anywhere. It's about time we have crap account wide. The achievement bars meant to be full. Doesn't matter in what char you completed what, just matter your skill as player. ZOS gimped some classes so hard it becomes impossible to be a completionist with that character, I'm talking the real *** like hard modes, no deaths, speed runs. Should those players be robbed of their progression because the company goes full tard and completely change a class. That wasn't part of the deal, no sir! If was earned, it's not free. That's logic 101.

I don't think this thread has an assertion that collecting skyshards will be "playing the game", phrased such that it is the reason for playing. That is really the tone you are setting in your first sentence. Players do not log into the game with the intention of spending another couple hours visiting skyshards. If you are saying that to troll, fine, I fell for it.

Skyshards and lorebooks are not a thing to grind, nor are they a sole objective. I suppose it might come about that, in order to get a particular achievement, or get one more skill point, a player might do this, but I view these things as exceptions, and not the focus of play. It is obvious that these are opportunities that happen during other game activities, and those other activities are the reason people play the game.

I will not disagree that ZOS has muddied the line between account and character. It is muddiest when it comes to cosmetics, but I have to admit they threw out whatever they had separating account and character so they could do Champion System. Champion System is alien tech, as far as this game is concerned. From the UI to the fact that it is a character system tied to the account, it is the one system in the game that does not fit with the rest of the game.

ZOS has been fairly consistent in terms of character skill advancement, though. They are not (yet) allowing for direct level boosts, instead focusing on rather marginal acceleration to allow faster advancement. They allow the purchase of skill lines, but, outside of horses, I cannot think of any case where you can buy direct level progression. They do not sell class, weapon, or guild skill levels. Skill lines and attribute points are still generated on a per-character basis and there is nothing I am thinking of at the moment where this has been moved to the account level.

Somewhere, back behind the curtain, is some sort of line. I have no idea how often it moves, or exactly where the line is. It certainly looks from here like they are trying to keep the bulk of character progression earned by the character, while in the game, and are not making these things part of the account. This is a proper RPG stance.

At the core, ESO needs to be a role playing game, and that means focus on character progression, not player and account progression. That is the whole point of an RPG.

Skyshards and lorebooks are tied to character skill progression, and as such, they need to stay separate across characters.

Now... whether the location should be unlocked for the player, once the player discovers it, even if the individual characters have to tromp out there and worship before the skyshard? Yes. The location of the skyshards is player knowledge, and there is really no reason to pretend that the player needs to discover the locations each time. The map is for the player, not the character. The character needs to go there, yes, but the player already knows to go there. Show them on the map as an undiscovered location for the character, once they have been found by the player. Let people toggle the map markers on and off if they want.

We want to talk about the psijic quest too?

West1389 wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

West1389 wrote: »

Why do SOME get so angry over wanting a feature in game the could be turned on and off? If you want to grind for the shards, and do it without having it on the map then you would have option to turn it off.

I dont get the right off the bat NO!!!!!! i had to do so do you talk. This is like the grandparents story of how all of them walked 5 miles in snow barefoot, and up a hill for the school bus. Things evolve to make life easier, sure you have the option to do the same walk they did. We wont hate you or scream that it make no sense when there is a bus, bike, skates, plus much more.

Why do we get hate for just wanting a feature on the map to show the shards and books we already collected? I can save a lot of ink, I print out the maps and use that to find them. Now whats the difference of people having either a phone, laptop, or like me paper to track down the shards......NOTHING!!!!!! We still have to get them, and run our butts all over still it just puts them on the map now.

I never really comment I just read the forum daily to see anything new coming up. I click on post like this and see all the hate i just dont get it. This next part will trigger a lot of you I AM FOR A AUCTION HOUSE. Ill leave with that.

There's no hate, just differences of opinion.

As for why people dislike changes that are intended purely to be optional, there are all manner of reasons. Not all those proposing such changes want them to be optional and besides, if nobody opposed them they may not be made optional if implemented. Some opponents of such changes may have in mind other priorities for scarce developer resources. Some opponents may not want the very nature of the game to be changed, optional or not.Some opponents may feel that those who exercise the option to make such changes will then ask for more. Some may simply feel that the proposed change is bad for the game, even if nobody is forced into accepting it.

Those are just some of the reasons players may have for opposing something they disagree with. There may well be other reasons. The main point, however, is that the forum is a place where people are entitled to put forward a proposal and other people are entitled to support or oppose it. That's why this particular forum is called "General Discussion" - we discuss things, from all points of view, and with all points of view equally valid whether we agree with them or not.

I never said anything about not discussing it, I asked why people get so angry. There is talking and giving good point about why its either good or bad, but many jump on and just say NO its my way deal with it. The OP was just making a suggestion he brought up good points in the post.

Then he is met with no you need to grind, you need to work for it, none of us got a break, i never used my add-on, and so on. Also just because a few dont want it and they cant find the toggle off button i dont want to make their life difficult then we shouldnt add any more features?

I can understand the armor lvs that would be huge job to take out the lvs, its in another post. This however is a added feature, it wouldnt really be that hard to add in the game. If the one who made it for PC can do it im sure the dev can as well.

I prob quoted this wrong, im not a pro I think my post is quoted as well, until i figure it out we have to deal with it.

I'm not convinced that you understand the difference between disagreement and anger or hate. There's nothing in the comments you have listed that suggests people are angry or hateful, merely that they disagree with the proposal - as they are entitled to do, and for perfectly valid reasons just as the proposal is perfectly valid even tho' many don't agree with it.

Darkenarlol wrote: »

it would be sooo good... so it never gonna happen =D

account based skyshards AND achievements gonna make my day

it feels so wrong that i have to redo all TG/DB achieves on my main while she is not that type of

character just to collect achieve points while i've done both lines on my specially maked NB...

like c'mon i've done that achievements allready.. like black market mogul etc...I as a player allready DID it

so why i have to repeat this?


as about character progression bla-bla i can see no progression in gathering same shards on my 26th (yep literally 26th) char.

it is boring brain-dead time waster

Lazy programming?

Tetrafy wrote: »

TheInfernalRage wrote: »

Wow. I survived 15 characters without this being a problem. I actually consider collecting them as part of early leveling. This is just lazy.

On console?

25 characters without it being a problem in my case, on PC but with no addons whatsoever.

This isn't a "PC users don't understand the problem Console users have" issue, there are lots of PC users who don't use these sorts of addons, or any at all. It's purely to do with whether you roll characters in order to rush them to endgame or play them fully.

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Tetrafy wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Tetrafy wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

So out of genuine curiosity, why do you guys think grinding the same stuff 8-15 times over is fun?

I legitimately don't understand. Is it just one of those "I did it so you have to" things? Masochism? Having too much time on your hands?

Its not fun grinding the same stuff over and over. You know what worse though? Flavor of the week PvP, and people giving up on something because it doesnt work for them in the first 10 minutes. If everyone had access to all there Skyshards and everything, there would be nothing but Sorcs in Cryodiil and Nightblades in PvE, because everone would have just moved over all there gear from last weeks flavor.

My first 2 Characters where DKs. I quit them both before even reaching lvl 15 because I didn't like them. Now one of those 2 is a vTrials DK Healer, since Homestead. Because I kept with the game and learned how to play DK later, I was able to make a fun build.

That's not really how skyshards or lorebooks work.

No idea what you mean here. I didnt say anything about how Skyshards and Lorebooks work. Other than answer the forum question of should they be account wide.

People are going to make alts regardless.

Yes, but not 5 a patch as they switch to the new meta class

May as well make it easier to make alts. There's no point in doing work you've already done

No, you should not make it easier to allow people to make the new cancer build. If you want Charater, whether t is your 1st or 14th, you should have to put a little work into it to make it worth having.

What I do not want is for people to be switching to the new flavor of the month. This wont happen nearly so often with the extra work. I have 10 characters. I've only ever deleted one and I only made it for the extra 60 storage before I caved and got plus.

People will absolutely switch to the flavor of the month if all you have to do is a 3 hour grind to 50 and then you have all your Guilds, Skill Points, and everything to leap into what ever content. I do not want to see 80% Werewolfs in Cryodiil 2 days after Wolf Hunter. I already hate that 90% of Trials runs are 1 DK, 1 Sorc, 1 Templar and 9 Nightblades

Most people it takes longer than 3 hours be realistic here. The average person wont hit 50 in a month of playing.

@Tetrafy A month? Holy... I don't "grind, I level via questing. I usually only do it during an XP event, but during New Life I leveled two new charaters. So no a month is not reasonable. I also work 48 hour work weeks.
However, I don't say no because of casual players. I say no because of cancer players. Someone who takes a month to level a character isnt making or breaking the game in either direction. However, someone who levels in 3 to 6 hours is. They are the type that will stop the month long level person from getting into a trial because they dont have the meta build and who will crush them in PvP making them never come back to it.

Well to be honest good players need to step up and start new groups that welcome the non 60k meta player.

Making even easier for people to switch to the "New Meta" class will make Elitist even less likely to help someone step up their game.

Well that says more about the elite players than anything else.

Dojohoda wrote: »

I'm not on board with this idea. Having all "previously found" skyshards and lore books gives an advantage to any new alts made and played in under-50 PVP.

I would be for adding previously found books and shards to the players account-wide map.

Soft Cap. And what is stopping a level three from getting meteor as is?

Dojohoda wrote: »

Tetrafy wrote: »

Dojohoda wrote: »

I'm not on board with this idea. Having all "previously found" skyshards and lore books gives an advantage to any new alts made and played in under-50 PVP.

I would be for adding previously found books and shards to the players account-wide map.

Soft Cap. And what is stopping a level three from getting meteor as is?

EXP prevents a level 3 from having it. With effort, once you get meteor, the alt is around level 12-14 depending on if a player has ESO plus and/or wearing training gear and the care taken to avoid "discovery" areas and battle exp.

And how is Meteor going to be game breaking with level threes walking around with sloads rune cage dawnbreakers etc. Like this whole oh no umder 50 is going to be op seems a bit farfetched.

Defilted wrote: »

Make it so the locations are added to your map account wide after discovering the location of a skyshard or lore book.

I'd suggest this over making them all account wide

I only collect motifs / lorebooks on one toon. I collect mage guild lorebooks on alts to level 5 for mage quests, or as needed. I disable my lorebook addon on all other toons.

I only go out of my way to collect skyshards on one toon, alts if they need a skill i'll go collect 3.

I never cared about achievements because they are not account wide.

My first char took me about 3 years to get all the skyshards (429?). If I had to do it on all my other 11 toons I would log off and play something else.

This is one of the main reasons I groan at the thought of a new toon, lore books and skyshards.............

I dont even replay the content any more I just PvP my way to level 50 which makes things even worse as this leaves me short on skillpoints and lore books.

So YES DO IT ASAP

lordrichter wrote: »

Devlin69 wrote: »

My first char took me about 3 years to get all the skyshards (429?). If I had to do it on all my other 11 toons I would log off and play something else.

This is one of the main reasons I groan at the thought of a new toon, lore books and skyshards.............

I dont even replay the content any more I just PvP my way to level 50 which makes things even worse as this leaves me short on skillpoints and lore books.

So YES DO IT ASAP

Then don't go collect all the lorebooks and skyshards. If it's not fun, don't do it.

So what you are saying is do not create another char? Because without skills it will be useless and to get skills I need skill points and for skill points I need skyshards.....

Devlin69 wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Devlin69 wrote: »

My first char took me about 3 years to get all the skyshards (429?). If I had to do it on all my other 11 toons I would log off and play something else.

This is one of the main reasons I groan at the thought of a new toon, lore books and skyshards.............

I dont even replay the content any more I just PvP my way to level 50 which makes things even worse as this leaves me short on skillpoints and lore books.

So YES DO IT ASAP

Then don't go collect all the lorebooks and skyshards. If it's not fun, don't do it.

So what you are saying is do not create another char? Because without skills it will be useless and to get skills I need skill points and for skill points I need skyshards.....

You don't, actually. You can achieve a perfectly adequate supply of skill points without going near skyshards - although there are quite a few you can't help but come upon just by entering various cities etc.