My Privacy and what ZOS should be protecting

Anazasi · August 2018

Character names are essential to the game. However, the account @name should not be visible ever. With a player's @name they can "hack" your ESO account; either forums or actual account and retrieve vital personal information. Yes ZOS has several features in place to protect accounts but my concern is why are they allowing the most important aspect to visible? When in game my account name should be private or at the very least I should have the option to hide it from other players. The ignore list works until its filled up and then you have to delete to make more room to add more people. Yes players can change their @name from the account page, I think or they can spend crowns to change their character name but to actually stop players from harassing you requires you to change both. If my @name was not visible I would be better protected from players I don't want to associate with.

The second point I want to make is the /tell /whisper feature. Ever since launch players have been able to send harassing messages to other players across factions in PVP. This should never have been allowed. In fact because players are able to do this it encourages harassment of all kinds. @ZOS has the responsibility protect players from this. Internet harassment across the globe has reached epidemic proportions. While I admit most players we encounter are not malicious, the potential exists because of the loopholes @ZOS has left open. In my 4 years of playing this game I can only imagine the number of players who have been reported for sending hate tells could have all been avoided only if ZOS had removed that ability entirely (of course this would only apply to PVP areas.) If by some chance the person wanted to send you a hate tell outside of PVP, well that would be a pretty clear case of intentional harassment and would be so much easier for ZOS to administer justice. I should point out that yes they can simply get on the same faction and use zone chat to accomplish the same thing, or send you tells if on the same faction but those too can be reported because the intent would be evident.

At the very least @zos should add the option to turn off @name visibility and an option to turn off cross faction tells. To support this we have the option to turn off duel requests and we have the option to show character or @names, so why can't we have these options as well.

I would also like to know while @ZOS has a clear TOS that actually uses the word harassment as a condition of violation how do they determine when harassment occurs? Is it only by reports? Is it by context? I have had the same player send messages daily for over 3 months. I have added them to the ignore list but they now send tells to other guild members. I have reported this person over 50 times and every day they are back doing the same things. Why doesn't ZOS take harassment seriously? Harassment is defined by Merriam-Webster as (1) to annoy persistently (2) to create an unpleasant or hostile situation for especially by uninvited and unwelcome verbal or physical conduct. Wikipedia defines harassment as actions covering a wide range of behaviors of an offensive nature. It is commonly understood as behavior that disturbs or upsets, and it is characteristically repetitive. We can also look at a general legal definition of harassment which states the act of systematic and/or continued unwanted and annoying actions of one party or a group, including threats and demands. If looking at all 3 sources of what defines harassment it should be clear that if the same person has been reported more than x times over a period of x days weeks or months and the still continue the same unwanted actions, something should be done.

I want to be safe and enjoy the game like everyone else and @ZOS has an obligation to facilitate this. Asking the players to report it is the first step, but why is it allowed to continue?

pauli133 · August 2018

I don't think I've ever encountered an online game wherein one's username wasn't public.

Armatesz · August 2018

pauli133 wrote: »

I don't think I've ever encountered an online game wherein one's username wasn't public.

I've never heard of one either, and I've played so many mmo games...

Universe · August 2018

The verification code system is still active, which means:
If the game account is being accessed from a new device/IP address, there is a need to insert the unique string of characters which is delivered to the account's associated email address.
Unless someone has access to your Email address, the chances of hacking to your account are pretty slim even if they know your password.
At first I was against the UserID being publicly visible and I did suggest to add GamerTag instead of allowing the UserID being visible.
Now it is kind of too late to change it, UserIDs are known to all and I doubt ZOS will change their mind about this.

As to communication in cross faction whispers, I agree this should be disabled while in Cyrodiil.

nemvar · August 2018

Anazasi wrote: »

The second point I want to make is the /tell /whisper feature. Ever since launch players have been able to send harassing messages to other players across factions in PVP. This should never have been allowed. In fact because players are able to do this it encourages harassment of all kinds. @ZOS has the responsibility protect players from this. Internet harassment across the globe has reached epidemic proportions. While I admit most players we encounter are not malicious, the potential exists because of the loopholes @ZOS has left open. In my 4 years of playing this game I can only imagine the number of players who have been reported for sending hate tells could have all been avoided only if ZOS had removed that ability entirely (of course this would only apply to PVP areas.) If by some chance the person wanted to send you a hate tell outside of PVP, well that would be a pretty clear case of intentional harassment and would be so much easier for ZOS to administer justice. I should point out that yes they can simply get on the same faction and use zone chat to accomplish the same thing, or send you tells if on the same faction but those too can be reported because the intent would be evident.

But how far should we take this? Should guild chat be disabled? Should you not be able to talk with people on your friends list while in PVP? Should you not be able to congratulate the guy who makes a MagWarden work?

That is what I usually use cross faction chat in cyro for. There is no need to for an option that already exists. Just put yourself on offline if you don't want whispers.

EDIT: After reading your post more carefully I do agree that there should be an option to turn of cross-faction chat while in PVP. I don't think we have such an option that does this while not disabling all whispers.

Anazasi wrote: »

While I admit most players we encounter are not malicious, the potential exists because of the loopholes @ZOS has left open.

The only way to close all loopholes would require the removel of all public forms of chat.

Anazasi wrote: »

that if the same person has been reported more than x times over a period of x days weeks or months and the still continue the same unwanted actions, something should be done.

What you are proposing enables harrasment far worse than anything that can currently happen in the game. What is stopping your harrasers from abusing this system and reporting you?

It might sound like a stupid question but did you try to use the report funtion in the support section of the website? I always got an answer when sending tickets via the website instead of the ingame tool. But that might just be coinsidence.

Anazasi wrote: »

I want to be safe and enjoy the game like everyone else and @ZOS has an obligation to facilitate this. Asking the players to report it is the first step, but why is it allowed to continue?

For all intents and purposes you are safe. What you are receiving are just words. And they are from randos on the internet.

Furthermore ZOS does not actually have a responsiblity to protect you from words on your screen in the same way that the mail company does not need to protect you from letters they deliver. They just provide the tools. And it is your responsiblity to use these tools to protect yourself.

nemvar · August 2018

pauli133 wrote: »

I don't think I've ever encountered an online game wherein one's username wasn't public.

You can hide your username in hearthstone. They implemented this to combat stream sniping.

Anazasi · August 2018

"What you are receiving are just words"

This is not an acceptable response anywhere. Most people walk away and ignore "words" but when the words become a form of defined harassment it no longer is acceptable. Words have meaning and convey intent and or purpose. If we accepted your attitude towards them it would be ok for say public figures to say anything they like or civil servants to say anything they like. I understand that in many cases the random hate tell is simply someone venting or someone frustrated. I accept that and turn the other cheek. But when the same player repeatedly says and does the same things 50+ times over the course of 3 months and is reported each time for the action we as players and customers should be protected. It's similar to you being an employee at a company and your co-worker constantly says or does something that you simply do not appreciate or want. You go to your boss and say hey look i think i'm being harassed by "joe" he's doing this and even though I have politely asked him to stop he won't. If your boss says na they are just words suck it up it will be ok. The next phone call that employee makes is to their attorney. Which then the boss is sued for several reasons all because they failed to act when it was properly reported. The attitude they are just words is not acceptable in a public / social environment regardless if they are exchanged at a place of work, a public park, or on the internet.

While Internet harassment litigation is just starting to shape precedence it would be in everyone's best interest to see a stronger stance in this game on harassment. Or at least a more clear statement from ZOS what they feel is harassment.

DocFrost72 · August 2018

Toggle for tells, sure. Only in cyrodiil. If you want to turn the whisper system off entirely, you have ignore AND can manipulate chat windows such that whispers do not appear.

If you believe you are being harassed, report the person to the in game system or in a Private Message here. Harassment is not okay.

I'm trying not to stand in a soap box about freedom of speech... lol.

nemvar · August 2018

Anazasi wrote: »

"What you are receiving are just words"

This is not an acceptable response anywhere. Most people walk away and ignore "words" but when the words become a form of defined harassment it no longer is acceptable. Words have meaning and convey intent and or purpose. If we accepted your attitude towards them it would be ok for say public figures to say anything they like or civil servants to say anything they like. I understand that in many cases the random hate tell is simply someone venting or someone frustrated. I accept that and turn the other cheek. But when the same player repeatedly says and does the same things 50+ times over the course of 3 months and is reported each time for the action we as players and customers should be protected. It's similar to you being an employee at a company and your co-worker constantly says or does something that you simply do not appreciate or want. You go to your boss and say hey look i think i'm being harassed by "joe" he's doing this and even though I have politely asked him to stop he won't. If your boss says na they are just words suck it up it will be ok. The next phone call that employee makes is to their attorney. Which then the boss is sued for several reasons all because they failed to act when it was properly reported. The attitude they are just words is not acceptable in a public / social environment regardless if they are exchanged at a place of work, a public park, or on the internet.

While Internet harassment litigation is just starting to shape precedence it would be in everyone's best interest to see a stronger stance in this game on harassment. Or at least a more clear statement from ZOS what they feel is harassment.

You are argueing against are strawman. I told you that there are already tools do deal with your particular problem.

Words are just words. That is my advise to you. Try to calm down and enjoy your game. Turn the chat to party/guild only if you have to. When I was a child I kept running to my teachers or parent so they might fight my wars. But I realized that I was commiting a mistake. If I always had to rely on others to stand up for me, I would crumble as soon as I was alone.

I really dislike this millennial mindset that you need to be coddled and protected against the danger of syllables. And what scares me most about this is that people think that companies such as google, facebook or ZOS should be responsible to police what people are allowed to say.

I, for one, welcome our multibillionare overlords.

Jayman1000 · August 2018

I agree. Login username should be private and separate from any ingame account names. So basically your ingame account name should be visible for others, but the login username should not.

That being said your account wont be hacked if you create a proper password such as gm4AbHa4rd7hJh8Xd (<- dont use this example password of course, make your own). Such passwords are impossible to guess even if your account login name is known, and still even if an automated hacking system had hundreds of years and made an attempt 10000 times every second, and it would still be far FAR from ever guessing it.

.

Sheezabeast · August 2018

I thought this was going to be a board about addons showing loot drops.

Alamakot · August 2018

Anazasi wrote: »

I have had the same player send messages daily for over 3 months. I have added them to the ignore list but they now send tells to other guild members. I have reported this person over 50 times and every day they are back doing the same things.

what about your GuildMaster/officers? is this person still a member? months of disturbing other members and nothing happened?

yurimodin · August 2018

yeah OP also dont open any emails from K'Tora@sloadqueen.nirn.com or else you will get a Daedric computer virus that will wipe out your crafting bag AND steal your social security checks.

Syncronaut · August 2018

Personaly i would prefer if they did this:

Account name: Not seen to any players
Password: not seen duh
New name number thing: Each player will now instead of a name get a number. Your character name in guild will be seen to other players, but if they add you as friend they will only see your number.

Because right now one player has to do is trick players in game to install a malvare/spyware on their pc and that player will see all their info from passwords to email. Or the usual way when surfing on the internet.

CyberOnEso · August 2018

People knowing your email or username will not let them 'hack' your account. It really surprises me how many people think this...

Having a single visible name associated with each player is essential for any form of long term player interaction where players have more than one character. I use lore friendly names for my characters but have my account name which anyone whom I know knows and uses for whispers and group invites etc.

Jhalin · August 2018

It’s like some people have never touched the Offline setting. It’s a wonderful thing for PvP, and it still lets you talk all you want in group and guild

Elsonso · August 2018

Anazasi wrote: »

Character names are essential to the game. However, the account @name should not be visible ever. With a player's @name they can "hack" your ESO account; either forums or actual account and retrieve vital personal information. Yes ZOS has several features in place to protect accounts but my concern is why are they allowing the most important aspect to visible?

Your user name isn't the most important aspect for protecting your account. That honor is reserved for your password. It is 100% of the security of your account. In all name-password account systems, your user name is considered public. There is no additional security in hiding that information because it is the easiest to obtain.

Anazasi wrote: »

The second point I want to make is the /tell /whisper feature. Ever since launch players have been able to send harassing messages to other players across factions in PVP. This should never have been allowed. In fact because players are able to do this it encourages harassment of all kinds. @ZOS has the responsibility protect players from this. Internet harassment across the globe has reached epidemic proportions.

A responsibility to protect players? No, not really.

As you say, most players are not malicious. We should treat all players like non-malicious adults, not the opposite. Until the player proves otherwise. When that happens, ZOS offers ignore. If someone crosses the line, they can be reported to ZOS, Microsoft, and Sony, depending on your situation. If, in crossing the line, they break laws, then it becomes the responsibility of ZOS/Microsoft/Sony to report it, not protect you.

Encourages harassment? No. It would be encouraging harassment if the game put up a message saying, "send @thatguy a hate message."

Anazasi wrote: »

I would also like to know while @ZOS has a clear TOS that actually uses the word harassment as a condition of violation how do they determine when harassment occurs? Is it only by reports? Is it by context? I have had the same player send messages daily for over 3 months. I have added them to the ignore list but they now send tells to other guild members. I have reported this person over 50 times and every day they are back doing the same things. Why doesn't ZOS take harassment seriously?

This is a specific case, which obviously we cannot judge here.

Tyrobag · August 2018

Being able to use @names to contact other players is essential, otherwise you could only talk to them when their on the character you have the name for. And how would people show up in guilds?

You're being overly paranoid, your name is not your password. No other games/websites treat your chosen screen name/address as a second password, why should you expect eso to do so?

If you're account did ever get hacked, ZoS would restore anything you lost, and hopefully you'd have been smart enough to not use the same password in other important places (at which point ZoS has no responsibility to protect you). ZoS does a lot of things wrong, but this is definitely not one of them.

As for getting repeated tells, block them. If you are receiving so much hate mail constantly from too many different sources to block, I think we can safely assume you've done something in particular to make so many people angry and you should perhaps check your own behavior. You are likely either offending people directly, or being far to PC for your own good (people who freak out about others swearing and such tend to rub people the wrong way, and thus make themselves targets).

You should stop worrying and enjoy the game

Ohtimbar · August 2018

The devil is in the details, which I do not care to dive in to, but I agree in general. Hiding account names, as in heartstone, is a good idea. I also agree that players should have more options to disengage from certain players or social features if they choose. Yes, this is an mmo but it's also a single player game at the same time.

I see the ignorant insult the 'millienials' card has already been played, which is based on conjecture about the op and an unwillingness to step outside of ones own limited perspective. Freeze peach doesn't imply that anyone has to listen to anyone else's nonsense. I for one support more options to avoid unpleasant people and stupid insults.

GamerAeryn · August 2018

While I agree that safe spaces are nice, and being able to protect yourself from harassment is good, and I *have* been harassed in this game to the point of being uncomfortable with *any* whispers to this day (I usually turn them to non-visible in my chat window, which causes its own issues).... I gotta side against the OP.

Cross faction whispering, okay, yeah you get the guy with the small *** that's gotta go "haha I killed you" on and on, but right click/ignore, they're gone forever. Or set offline. They'll lose interest and you don't even need to clutter your ignore list. I've had people whisper me cross faction asking how they thought that fight went. I've had a group kill me six times in a row before they whispered "hey are you just trying to get shards?" and then *escort me* through their area so I could do so. I've had people help me with that damned Arena quest in IC, each of us taking neutral corners and trying not to hurt one another. It *can* be used successfully and I agree with those saying that more intervention would engender more abuse of the system. Someone doesn't like one thing you say or do like sniping a chest or beating them to a node and suddenly they and their friends are reporting you until ZOS bans you because that's their blanket system. If they make it that easy, it'll be that easy for you to lose your account and that much more of a hassle people know they can bring down on you.

As for @names, I prefer them for the sole reason that I can't remember (out of 15 people) who all I like and don't like to play with.I don't friend everyone, I don't want to, and if I'm in a group with RandomGuy16 vs @randomguy16 I can tell that hey, I'm not a fan of being with that guy, or hey, that guy's really good. He's in zone chat, I'm gonna talk to him. It also helped a lot, oddly enough, in baby pvp because the character turnover can be high for career Kyne users and by the time you get to know a player's name that character is leveled, deleted, and the person has moved on to a new baby.

GamerAeryn · August 2018

Tyrobag wrote: »

Being able to use @names to contact other players is essential, otherwise you could only talk to them when their on the character you have the name for. And how would people show up in guilds?

^^^ this person is in the same guild as me currently. I know that cos we use @names both here and there... And I agree, how *would* we show up? How do we know to port to someone's house for the guild hall? Learn one of their 15 names? What if they delete the one you know? WHat if you're constantly conversing with the same person but you don't know cos it's 15 different character namess you see in guild chat? And the number thing? Yes, this is my friend from Fairy Tail of Tamriel... #2215 or this is Tyro, I know him from FTOT. ((shrug))

rfennell_ESO · August 2018

The general issue is a password one (obviously).

The fact is that many people use a generic password for many things online... Using the same password on a guild website or an eso gaming website could (and likely has) open you up to being hacked.

I know the regurgitated response will be how do they get around the ip change and the email verification. Well, they gotten around those things before by logging into your account settings and changing them and they had a mass hack that did not send out email notifications for verification about the time craglorn came out.

While it's infinitely easier to use similar or identical passwords for online things, it's where the known nature of your useID that can be exposed because of it.

Elwendryll · August 2018

But, I want to be able to express my respect and admiration to my enemies when I enjoyed a battle and considered it as a true challenge.

Some games have a separate login and username, you're sometime even forced to pick a different one.

Ratzkifal · August 2018

I don't get how people can get their ignore lists full. I've been playing since Tamriel Unlimited and I have maybe 15 ignores at max (my friend list is full however - thanks to the note feature I even know each of them well enough to consider them too valueable to unfriend for space). Even in pvp I got only two hate whispers or so, but I regularly use the whisper feature to ask my enemy what build he or she is using. Heck I made more friends that way than enemies!

DarcyMardin · August 2018

I agree that the log-in name should be private. Why I am known in guilds by my log-in name instead of by my character name has never made sense to me. And yes, hackers easily gaining access to half of one’s log-in is a security threat, even when one uses strong passwords (which not everybody does).

Cross faction whispering has never made sense to me, either. In several other games I’ve played, it was impossible to get whispers from opposing players during PvP. I was surprised the first time I got a whisper from someone who had just killed me in Cyrodiil. I hadn’t realized it was possible and I didn’t think it was good sportsmanship, so I ignored it.

jaschacasadiob16_ESO · August 2018

Guilds are per account, not character. Like Warcraft was, for example. In Warraft, moreover, people had no way to know two characters belonged to the same person, unless you told them. ESO was designed in a different way, so the online ID is crucial to make it work. And you have lots of benefits for it being this way.

On the other hand, is the online ID confidential data? It hardly is, since it does not expose anything personal. Of course, if you are smart enough to pick name_surname_dob as an ID. that's your responsibility.

Reverb · August 2018

That's a lot of angst over things that 99.9% of the player base have no problem with.

Account name is visible in almost all games. It is necessary in ESO because the social aspects of the game are account wide, not character based. Zeni has some security measures in place, and (like in every respect)you have a responsibility to protect your accounts by choosing complex passwords, not using the same password for multiple things, and changing them frequently.

The whispers between factions are not the problem, your problem is with specific people behaving poorly. Most of us don't experience that, and should not lose cross-faction communication because of a few players that break the tos. Report them, ignore them, and/or configure your chat window to not show whispers.

Also, reporting anything 50 times a day is a form of harassment in itself. I hope you were kidding. If you were serious about that, you are burdening (and yes, harassing) the support team, and have no prayer of your reports ever being addressed. Further, unless they have logic in place to auto route or close your tickets, you are creating so much additional workload that is preventing other player issues from being addressed. Stop doing that.

Seri · August 2018

Anazasi wrote: »

The ignore list works until its filled up and then you have to delete to make more room to add more people.
[...]
In my 4 years of playing this game I can only imagine the number of players who have been reported for sending hate tells could have all been avoided only if ZOS had removed that ability entirely

In my 4 years of playing this game, including a lot of it in PVP, I have less than 5 people blocked (excluding back at launch I blocked a bunch of gold-sellers - I cleared that list ages ago though). I don't even know what the ignore list limit is.

Ratzkifal wrote: »

I don't get how people can get their ignore lists full. I've been playing since Tamriel Unlimited and I have maybe 15 ignores at max (my friend list is full however - thanks to the note feature I even know each of them well enough to consider them too valueable to unfriend for space). Even in pvp I got only two hate whispers or so, but I regularly use the whisper feature to ask my enemy what build he or she is using. Heck I made more friends that way than enemies!

I'm pretty much the same, and I've been playing since launch, including in PVP. After clearing out the gold-selling bots from waaaay back, I think the number of people I've blocked because of whispers I could count on one hand. Meanwhile I've probably made easily 10 or 15 friends cross-faction.

DarcyMardin wrote: »

Why I am known in guilds by my log-in name instead of by my character name has never made sense to me. And yes, hackers easily gaining access to half of one’s log-in is a security threat, even when one uses strong passwords (which not everybody does).

This kinda depends on your guilds purpose, etc. Eg, if I want to message my GM to say I can't go to <trial/guild event/pvp/whatever> neither he or I really care what character he or I are on - just that we can identify each-other. That same name we can also use in TS or Discord to identify the player, rather than having to learn 10 or more different names for every person. On the other hand, if it's for RP reasons, then I can understand character name being of more interest.

Cross faction whispering has never made sense to me, either. In several other games I’ve played, it was impossible to get whispers from opposing players during PvP. I was surprised the first time I got a whisper from someone who had just killed me in Cyrodiil. I hadn’t realized it was possible and I didn’t think it was good sportsmanship, so I ignored it.

Sportsmanship is going to depend on what was said. First time I sent a cross-faction whisper it was after a 6 min duel where we ran into-each other unintentionally in cyro. I lost, but sent a 'wow, good fight' type message. That was 4 years ago now and we're still on each-others' friends list

JKorr · August 2018

DarcyMardin wrote: »

I agree that the log-in name should be private. Why I am known in guilds by my log-in name instead of by my character name has never made sense to me. And yes, hackers easily gaining access to half of one’s log-in is a security threat, even when one uses strong passwords (which not everybody does).

Cross faction whispering has never made sense to me, either. In several other games I’ve played, it was impossible to get whispers from opposing players during PvP. I was surprised the first time I got a whisper from someone who had just killed me in Cyrodiil. I hadn’t realized it was possible and I didn’t think it was good sportsmanship, so I ignored it.

I admire your memory abilities. I'm in 4 guilds that are consistently at 450+ members; many of the members have full + extra character slots filled, so lots and lots of character names. For myself, if I didn't see @account-name, I would never be able to tell who just asked for help/gear/mats/directions. My forum name isn't the same as my @ name in-game, and neither is anything close to RL, so....

Jayman1000 · August 2018

CyberOnEso wrote: »

People knowing your email or username will not let them 'hack' your account. It really surprises me how many people think this...

Having a single visible name associated with each player is essential for any form of long term player interaction where players have more than one character. I use lore friendly names for my characters but have my account name which anyone whom I know knows and uses for whispers and group invites etc.

Knowing username will help in hacking the account; but only if the user has a bad password. With a proper long and random password knowing the login name wont matter. However, unfortunately many players will continue to use subpar passwords and in those cases exposing the loginname to everyone in game to see is a security flaw that just makes the bad password much worse. Hackers can make a list of @accountnames they see in game and then run their bad passwords list against them.

Bottom line: exposing account names ingame is a security flaw as long as there are players that use bad passwords. But if YOU use a proper password it wont matter for you.

Sovjet · August 2018

Syncronaut wrote: »

Personaly i would prefer if they did this:

Account name: Not seen to any players
Password: not seen duh
New name number thing: Each player will now instead of a name get a number. Your character name in guild will be seen to other players, but if they add you as friend they will only see your number.

Because right now one player has to do is trick players in game to install a malvare/spyware on their pc and that player will see all their info from passwords to email. Or the usual way when surfing on the internet.

Rule number 1 never click om links you don't trust, same goes for websites.

Use a secure password and not the same password for everything and you are all golden.