Is it bad form to throw a taunt at a WB when there is already a tank there?

summitxho · August 2018

I just started fooling around on a tank type character, I do not do group content, more just for kicks on some world bosses getting a feel for what its like. My question is when I get to a WB already in progress and there is a tank already doing his thing, is it considered rude to throw your own taunt? Take for example the pierce armor skill, it would effect the enemy with major fracture and major breech, but it also taunts the enemy away from the existing tank who the WB is targeting, is this considered rude despite the fact you are doing it for the fracture and breech and not the taunt?

Second question, does War horn only work with people you are grouped up with, or do all players fighting that world boss benefit from it? What is considered an ally? All non enemy players or only the players you are grouped up with?

Thanks in advance, its kind of fun to change things up for a bit on the PVE side.

Starlock · August 2018

Rude? Nah. Contextually annoying? Absolutely. If someone else has the boss pinned in place and someone new taunts it out of the AoEs others have put down? Annoying. If the newcomer tank does a rubbish job and dies? Well, mostly funny, but also a tad annoying. On the whole I don’t mind if a newer tank wants to try their hand. I’ll let them and take over if it looks needed.

Pretty sure horn hits all friendlies in the range, regardless of group.

eso_nya · August 2018

When someone solos a WB and got it to <10%, is extremely rude to jump in, heavy attack with icestaff and than run away far enough for the boss to reset.

Ackwalan · August 2018

If two different players use taunt on the same mob, that mob becomes immune to taunts for 15 seconds. Then the mob will run around attacking whomever and not stand in one place. The job of the tank is to keep the mob in one place within the AOE bubble to maximize the damage. If you taunt the mob off the tank that is already doing his job, you are doing it wrong.

CP5 · August 2018

I would say it is definitely rude, but from my own experience whenever a tank randomly runs in and does this I let them have agro since 9 times out of 10 they'll die anyway. But to touch on the second part of your first question you can normally bet the tank whose holding the boss knows what they are doing and has the boss debuffed.

summitxho · August 2018

to clarify, I am not running away to have AOEs miss or reset the boss, the boss stays where it was before, just the targeted player changes but I do not kite the thing, but the question did come up when I was testing it the other day that throwing multiple taunts may be hurting more than helping, my goal was to be a support tank to be helpful, not anything else. Great to know about multiple taunts making the boss immune, I had no idea and this is exactly what I hoped to find out.

Nestor · August 2018

If your Taunt leaves the boss where the first tank pulled and does not change the way the boss is facing or keeps them faced away from the others, then good. Your working with the existing tank.

Pull a Boss out of the AoE that have been laid down, your being a tool.

Now, some bosses bounce all over the place, so ik those cases, taunt only works some of the time, so it can be helpful to have two tanks, one at each landing zone.

summitxho · August 2018

Nestor wrote: »

If your Taunt leaves the boss where the first tank pulled and does not change the way the boss is facing or keeps them faced away from the others, then good. Your working with the existing tank.

Pull a Boss out of the AoE that have been laid down, your being a tool.

Now, some bosses bounce all over the place, so ik those cases, taunt only works some of the time, so it can be helpful to have two tanks, one at each landing zone.

Out of strictly curiosity, does which way they face make a difference? Like if I am on one side and another tank is on the other, the boss turns to face me, but stays in the same place, that is bad? Honestly I had no idea, but would be good to know.

There is a WB on summerset, forget the name now, pretty sure its Queens hatchery where it was teleporting all over the place, your saying in this case if there were 2 tanks to share the taunt and remain in place for when it teleports back and not chase it down to taunt it?

AlnilamE · August 2018

The main problem with more than one tank tanking the same boss without coordinating is that different players taunting the same mob 3 times in 10 seconds will grant it taunt immunity.

So if you can tell that the other thank is holding the boss, it would be more productive to try and control adds if there are any, for example. Or focus on trying to debuff.

summitxho · August 2018

AlnilamE wrote: »

The main problem with more than one tank tanking the same boss without coordinating is that different players taunting the same mob 3 times in 10 seconds will grant it taunt immunity.

So if you can tell that the other thank is holding the boss, it would be more productive to try and control adds if there are any, for example. Or focus on trying to debuff.

So how do trials typically work with multiple tanks? I have never done a trial so excuse the ignorance, but I have heard of multiple tanks in a trial, is one of those tanks only supposed to taunt and plan out beforehand? Does one tank the boss and another the MOBS? Is this discussed beforehand or are they just supposed to figure it out?

Nestor · August 2018

summitxho wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

If your Taunt leaves the boss where the first tank pulled and does not change the way the boss is facing or keeps them faced away from the others, then good. Your working with the existing tank.

Pull a Boss out of the AoE that have been laid down, your being a tool.

Now, some bosses bounce all over the place, so ik those cases, taunt only works some of the time, so it can be helpful to have two tanks, one at each landing zone.

Out of strictly curiosity, does which way they face make a difference? Like if I am on one side and another tank is on the other, the boss turns to face me, but stays in the same place, that is bad? Honestly I had no idea, but would be good to know.

There is a WB on summerset, forget the name now, pretty sure its Queens hatchery where it was teleporting all over the place, your saying in this case if there were 2 tanks to share the taunt and remain in place for when it teleports back and not chase it down to taunt it?

The tank needs to keep the boss faced away from the dps so they dont have LOS to engage direct attacks on DPS and Heals and their conal attacks do not land on other players.

Taunt is only a small part of the Tank role. Another part is Debuffing the boss, so rather than one tank chasing the boss and using up stamina sprinting to debuff, the tanks can position themselves so the boss bounces to them. Then when the boss is on the other side, the tank can buff the group, which is the other job of the tank.

Nestor · August 2018

summitxho wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

The main problem with more than one tank tanking the same boss without coordinating is that different players taunting the same mob 3 times in 10 seconds will grant it taunt immunity.

So if you can tell that the other thank is holding the boss, it would be more productive to try and control adds if there are any, for example. Or focus on trying to debuff.

So how do trials typically work with multiple tanks? I have never done a trial so excuse the ignorance, but I have heard of multiple tanks in a trial, is one of those tanks only supposed to taunt and plan out beforehand? Does one tank the boss and another the MOBS? Is this discussed beforehand or are they just supposed to figure it out?

@summitxho

The other Tank is an Off Tank and is used in a couple of the fights to handle mobs that are not in the main area. These off tanks tend to gear swap between the boss battles that need them and the ones that dont so they can DPS.

AlnilamE · August 2018

summitxho wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

The main problem with more than one tank tanking the same boss without coordinating is that different players taunting the same mob 3 times in 10 seconds will grant it taunt immunity.

So if you can tell that the other thank is holding the boss, it would be more productive to try and control adds if there are any, for example. Or focus on trying to debuff.

So how do trials typically work with multiple tanks? I have never done a trial so excuse the ignorance, but I have heard of multiple tanks in a trial, is one of those tanks only supposed to taunt and plan out beforehand? Does one tank the boss and another the MOBS? Is this discussed beforehand or are they just supposed to figure it out?

In trials, if there are two tanks (this does not apply to all trials), one will the the "Main Tank" or MT and the other will be the "Off Tank" or OT. They will have different targets and not all fights will require them both to act as tanks.

In the old Sanctum Ophidia (and I think still in vSO) in the Mantikora fight, there was a point where a portal would open and suck 4 players to fight a separate boss. So the main tank would stay up and tank the Mantikora and the off-tank would go down the portal and tank the Aspect of the Serpent (or whatever he was called). You needed a tank for that fight to turn him away from the DPS as he had a nasty cleave attack.

In vet Aetherian Archive, at the last boss, the main tank will tank the Axes and the off-tank will tank the Atronachs when they spawn.

In Maw of Lorkhaj, for trash pulls, one of the tanks taunts the mobs carrying two-handers and one taunts the mobs with sword and board. When you get ogres, one taunts the shamans and the other taunts the brutes and they keep them away from each other. During the Twins fight, you need to keep each boss in their side of the room so that your half of the group can DPS them. And then swap bosses after people have been assigned colours after the prayer phase.

Here's a video I found of the tank PoV of that fight in vet mode. If you turn on the closed captions, you can see the comments from the tank:

Vet Maw of Lorkhaj Twins fight

You can see the other tank working across the room as well.

And here is the last boss in Vet Aetherian Archive. You will see one tank in the middle tanking the Mage and the Atronachs, and the other tank in the back of the room (on the Tank Rock) taunting the Axes.

Last boss Vet AA

Edited to add: Yes, in trials this is all discussed beforehand and the whole group is guided by the raid leader, so if something unexpected happens they can adapt. Vet trials pretty much require voice comms to pull off effectively. Normal trials are ok without voice if everyone knows the fight.

summitxho · August 2018

Nestor wrote: »

summitxho wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

If your Taunt leaves the boss where the first tank pulled and does not change the way the boss is facing or keeps them faced away from the others, then good. Your working with the existing tank.

Pull a Boss out of the AoE that have been laid down, your being a tool.

Now, some bosses bounce all over the place, so ik those cases, taunt only works some of the time, so it can be helpful to have two tanks, one at each landing zone.

Out of strictly curiosity, does which way they face make a difference? Like if I am on one side and another tank is on the other, the boss turns to face me, but stays in the same place, that is bad? Honestly I had no idea, but would be good to know.

There is a WB on summerset, forget the name now, pretty sure its Queens hatchery where it was teleporting all over the place, your saying in this case if there were 2 tanks to share the taunt and remain in place for when it teleports back and not chase it down to taunt it?

The tank needs to keep the boss faced away from the dps so they dont have LOS to engage direct attacks on DPS and Heals and their conal attacks do not land on other players.

Taunt is only a small part of the Tank role. Another part is Debuffing the boss, so rather than one tank chasing the boss and using up stamina sprinting to debuff, the tanks can position themselves so the boss bounces to them. Then when the boss is on the other side, the tank can buff the group, which is the other job of the tank.

Thanks for the explanation, never thought about the conal attacks and such, makes perfect sense. I know a tanks job is more than to taunt, that's what brought this question up, as to me the pierce armor I was using was more about fracture and breech to the boss more so than the taunt, but the taunt comes with it. I will look into some other buff/debufffing skills to use when there is a tank already on the boss so I can still offer a support roll, but not have the taunt to avoid disrupting a pre existing tank.

I do employ a 2H on my back bar for damage since this is specifically for PVE non group content so there is only so many skills I can put on the sword and board, I just wanted the option to switch to sword and board to offer additional support on WB and such.

summitxho · August 2018

AlnilamE wrote: »

summitxho wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

The main problem with more than one tank tanking the same boss without coordinating is that different players taunting the same mob 3 times in 10 seconds will grant it taunt immunity.

So if you can tell that the other thank is holding the boss, it would be more productive to try and control adds if there are any, for example. Or focus on trying to debuff.

So how do trials typically work with multiple tanks? I have never done a trial so excuse the ignorance, but I have heard of multiple tanks in a trial, is one of those tanks only supposed to taunt and plan out beforehand? Does one tank the boss and another the MOBS? Is this discussed beforehand or are they just supposed to figure it out?

In trials, if there are two tanks (this does not apply to all trials), one will the the "Main Tank" or MT and the other will be the "Off Tank" or OT. They will have different targets and not all fights will require them both to act as tanks.

In the old Sanctum Ophidia (and I think still in vSO) in the Mantikora fight, there was a point where a portal would open and suck 4 players to fight a separate boss. So the main tank would stay up and tank the Mantikora and the off-tank would go down the portal and tank the Aspect of the Serpent (or whatever he was called). You needed a tank for that fight to turn him away from the DPS as he had a nasty cleave attack.

In vet Aetherian Archive, at the last boss, the main tank will tank the Axes and the off-tank will tank the Atronachs when they spawn.

In Maw of Lorkhaj, for trash pulls, one of the tanks taunts the mobs carrying two-handers and one taunts the mobs with sword and board. When you get ogres, one taunts the shamans and the other taunts the brutes and they keep them away from each other. During the Twins fight, you need to keep each boss in their side of the room so that your half of the group can DPS them. And then swap bosses after people have been assigned colours after the prayer phase.

Here's a video I found of the tank PoV of that fight in vet mode. If you turn on the closed captions, you can see the comments from the tank:

Vet Maw of Lorkhaj Twins fight

You can see the other tank working across the room as well.

And here is the last boss in Vet Aetherian Archive. You will see one tank in the middle tanking the Mage and the Atronachs, and the other tank in the back of the room (on the Tank Rock) taunting the Axes.

Last boss Vet AA

Edited to add: Yes, in trials this is all discussed beforehand and the whole group is guided by the raid leader, so if something unexpected happens they can adapt. Vet trials pretty much require voice comms to pull off effectively. Normal trials are ok without voice if everyone knows the fight.

Thanks for taking the time to link the videos, will have a look when I get home, things are a bit more clear now! My goals for this are a bit unique, end of the day I do not want to be an accidental detriment when my purpose was to be helpful.

D0PAMINE · August 2018

It can be rude, and I have seen people deliberatly pull bosses out of everyones Ultimates before too.

Prof_Bawbag · August 2018

The only time it's annoying is when the try hard can't actually tank and then proceeds to fight the boss on the back foot. Pulling it here, there and everywhere. When that happens either in dungeons or on WB's, I just stand there until the try hard inevitably dies, which they do 9/10. Not wasting resources because someone decides to act like an idiot.

summitxho · August 2018

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

The only time it's annoying is when the try hard can't actually tank and then proceeds to fight the boss on the back foot. Pulling it here, there and everywhere. When that happens either in dungeons or on WB's, I just stand there until the try hard inevitably dies, which they do 9/10. Not wasting resources because someone decides to act like an idiot.

Definitely not trying to do that, I read up as much as my time allows on proper tanking and applied it in a unique way for PVE questing and also offering a support role on WB if needed. My build is nothing at all to brag about, I am a pretty crappy player I fully admit lol, but for the world bosses I did last night I could just sit there and take the beating while doing a bit of damage. 33K health and mid 20K resistance on magic and physical resistance and never fell below 50% health. There will always be trolls, but sometimes its simple ignorance and that is what I am trying to avoid, and I learned a few things in here that I can now apply so I appreciate all the replies.

Nestor · August 2018

You should google ESO Woeler Tank (on my phone so cant give direct link)

Woeler has an excellent guide on Tanking in this game from beginner to end game, including being an off tank. It has gear and rotations and tactics. Really helpful

summitxho · August 2018

Nestor wrote: »

You should google ESO Woeler Tank (on my phone so cant give direct link)

Woeler has an excellent guide on Tanking in this game from beginner to end game, including being an off tank. It has gear and rotations and tactics. Really helpful

I did some reading on his site, his name always seemed to pop up when looking to learn tanking. I had to go somewhat off book however as I was not creating a tank for dungeons, PVP or trials, but a sort of hybrid of PVE solo play which I do mainly and then switch to sword and shield for world bosses for support on other players in some of the more dead zones, I know hybrids is usually frowned upon but that's ok, my goal is to simply have fun and complete content and if I am not doing group play I am not bringing others down from my choices.

I wanted to do this after wiping with a group at a world boss a few times with some lower levels and felt it would be a nice roll to play and take some pressure off when in this situation. To be completely honest with the type of playing I do, I always found one bar was all that was necessary to complete the content I was doing in PVE solo, so I set up my second bar with sword and board to use for tanking if needed. Its certainly not by any means a good build however, but I have been having fun with it so far and it might just peak my interest to get more serious into the tanking, do more research, improve the build and tackle group play. We will see. I only get to play a few hours a week so I am more focused on enjoyment instead of maximizing my potential.

pod88kk · August 2018

If you think you can do better go for it. Just keep it in our aoes

TheCyberDruid · August 2018

Once the boss becomes immune to taunt it all goes down... in trials and vet dungeons at least. World bosses are different as most aren't that hard, but you really have to run around and taunt a WB when someone else is already tanking it? Sounds like a Richard move to me.

Krayl · August 2018

It's not great form for all the reasons mentioned.

That being said, as someone who plays tank mostly, it's hard for me to NOT hit that taunt; it's just instinctive, and I think a lot of tanks understand that it's just habit.

So, I wouldn't do it intentionally, but if you do it accidentally just keep the boss in one place and turned away from the group.

Linaleah · August 2018

chances are if there is a tank on that world boss already - they are using the exact same debuff as you are to taunt. that debuff doesn't stack so as long as they are keeping the boss debuffed already, you have zero worry about it.

AcadianPaladin · August 2018

When I'm on my DK main tank and come across a WB fight in progress with a tank, as long as the tank is surviving okay, I'll get in close, add my shield buffs to the mix and what meager dps I do - but I'll scrupulously avoid taunting. The only time I'll taunt the boss off the other tank is if they appear to be struggling with health. Similarly, if I've got a boss by the nose, I appreciate others respecting that and not taunting the boss. When there are multiple bosses, sometimes two tanks can share the taunt load between them as long as we bring and keep the bosses close together and, ideally, facing away from other players so all dps characters can safely focus on one tight killing zone.

Dymence · August 2018

I've never actually seen a tank tanking a word boss. Usually just a ton of dd's mashing it in and aggro ping ponging

summitxho · August 2018

Dymence wrote: »

I've never actually seen a tank tanking a word boss. Usually just a ton of dd's mashing it in and aggro ping ponging

PST time zone, playing usually 2-3am in some of the older zones it can be really dead, I rarely find large groups at a WB. While not needed its simply a change of pace to what I was doing before.

Khrogo · August 2018

I consider it extremely rude. I never taunt a boss if it is already being tanked. Multiple taunts only result in the boss running amok. I will instead round up untaunted adds and generally make myself useful in ways that do not require the spotlight.

summitxho · August 2018

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

When I'm on my DK main tank and come across a WB fight in progress with a tank, as long as the tank is surviving okay, I'll get in close, add my shield buffs to the mix and what meager dps I do - but I'll scrupulously avoid taunting. The only time I'll taunt the boss off the other tank is if they appear to be struggling with health. Similarly, if I've got a boss by the nose, I appreciate others respecting that and not taunting the boss. When there are multiple bosses, sometimes two tanks can share the taunt load between them as long as we bring and keep the bosses close together and, ideally, facing away from other players so all dps characters can safely focus on one tight killing zone.

I think that is the route I will take as well, seems the most courteous. I was simply unsure of the mechanics, if the debuffs stacked, what was proper etiquette in that scenario. I guess talking etiquette in a game is somewhat silly for some, but its about simply respect for me and I genuinely did not know how it worked.

PlagueSD · August 2018

summitxho wrote: »

Out of strictly curiosity, does which way they face make a difference? Like if I am on one side and another tank is on the other, the boss turns to face me, but stays in the same place, that is bad? Honestly I had no idea, but would be good to know.

If you're just learning to tank, you should start getting into the habit of facing bosses AWAY from the group. Most bosses have a frontal cone special that a tank can survive, but will one-shot most DPS/healers. If you're spinning the boss in a circle, there's a good chance you'll cause someone to die.

summitxho · August 2018

I am going to try and face the boss away from the players, sometimes in WB this may be hard to do though, seems to be people in all directions sometimes.

So from this thread it seems if another tank has a taunt down, do not interfere unless he is struggling in health. Lay down a few buffs/debuffs, taunt any adds to keep them off dps in a supporting role. Quick question on this, how do I know that player being targeted was a deliberate taunt or that they are being targeted because of their DPS? Simply by what weapon they have equipped? What about the undaunted skill which has a taunt? How do I know if its deliberate taunt?

If I am the one taunting keep the boss turned away from group and remain in stationary bashing the red lines, blocking the yellow lines, and blocking AOE attacks in between doing the taunts, buffs, and debuffs.