Hop on the DK band wagon! WINGS

Krotha · July 2018

I've ran prisoner's rags for the last week on my SDK for a DW/2H playstyle and all I can say is WOW. I play as an orc and the synergy from orc passives and the sprint cost reduction from prisoner's essentially solves the mobility issues of SDK. With proper timing of fragmented shield and some pieces of well-fitted you can "infinitely" sprint. The magicka sustain from prisoner's is enough to maintain reflective plate, hardened/volatile armor, and fragmented shield with limited effort. I will definitely be keeping prisoner's rags on for the upcoming patch on my Werewolf build to provide the same benefits and help sustain healing.

What SDK needs are more stamina based abilities.

- Green Dragon Blood should cost stam and scale off of max stam similar to coagulating blood.
- Choking talons should cost stam to provide SDKs better capabilities to mitigate dmg in group play for PvP.
- I would love a stamina based "exhale" that does poison dmg and applies minor defile

Reducing the magicka cost of earthern heart abilities (10-20%) would help SDKs out tremendously and eliminate the need to force a SDK to run prisoner's rags or stack extra magicka. SDK's resource management can be hard for newer players to learn and a reduction would help them out greatly. However, there needs to be a balance with MDKs which is where doing something like this gets tricky. At a certain point in reducing magicka costs an MDK will be able to infinitely sustain defensive abilities.

Reduce the cost of wings by 15% and you will have happy SDKs. Little adjustments are what we need until the proper balance is found. I do miss the days of rocking the old syrabane set and infinite wings but such a thing would create real DK monsters in the battle field which could deter newer players from wanting to shoot sticks at me from a distance.

NBrookus · July 2018

I think Wings will be in a pretty good state with what is on PTS. Snare removal was useless without a way to get out of an AOE snare, but the skill doesn't need to be as strong as Forward Momentum while also having reflects on top. 2 seconds is enough.

Bug fixes for wings aside, I think it could use a buff on the *other* morph. Since Fire Scale doesn't have snare removal, maybe it reflects X projectiles *per enemy* for the duration.

RinaldoGandolphi · July 2018

StamDK?

Try MagDK...I been gone for a bit, came back...Psyjiic order has this wonderful skill called "Race Against Time" which not only gives Major Expedition, but also reduces sprint costs by half....combine that with Reflective Plate and Mag DK is back baby!

I am outrunning most Mag Sorc's now, dropped Vampire completely don't need it so my Dunmer passives actually work! lol which means im immune to Burning Status Effect.

I brought Destro/Resto MagDK back from the dead back in early Nov 2017, but this makes it even better to the point that I think its probably the best way to run MagDK now...its really strong...it has high damage, ability to control fights, very high sustained pressure, ability to reflect, ability to use shields, Snare removal and immunity, and high mobility...its soooooo on next patch far more then most realize right now...im so glad i made a DK all that time ago...

ak_pvp · July 2018

Quantum_V wrote: »

Then when we analyze how present snares are in the game I barely see wings acting as a reliable substitute for other snare removal abilities.

Now, keep in mind I agree that in determined situations wings utteraly shutdown your opponent - specially against some classes like magblades, where all their arsenal revolves around projectiles. As a lot of issues in the game go, wings has no middle ground - either it is very subpar for its cost, or it heavily shuts down other classes.

The change to wings brought more balanced to that - its now DECENTLY effective in situations that extends beyond projectile fighting - helping the skill participate in more well rounded builds and situations. I believe the next step as far as this skill goes is to balance it on the opposite end - where it completely shut down ranged characters. Some changes should happen so that wings is still a reliable counter to ranged characters, yet it doesn't completely shuts down the specific opponents. These changes have happened in the past slowly over time; like making meteor and force pulse not reflectable.

Adding more exceptions kills the wings. Esp for such low reflects. It doesn't really become decently effective outside of reflect to warrant more nerfs, as said in the bolded part. In my opinion 2 seconds is nothing, 2s especially is bad on a slower class who can't stop the direct attacks that snare, Cloak gives 2.5s of *** near everything immunity. Mean while wings is ranged>projectiles>whatever the devs feel like not giving exemption. It also doesn't reflect all secondary effects, occasionally bugs out and lets you be it.

It does however suffer from the problem of being absolutely broken in a 1v1 vs certain builds, who can't pull a key or all of their burst. However no matter how many exceptions you add it won't fix that. Look to the sorcs, 1 common ability reflected and they still cry. Its literally a *** shield that only has limited defense, but still is called out.

Adding more exemptions would only be fair if they remove a few too.
Unify it as ranged direct damage and then you have a solid def/counterplay trade off. Most of the same "non projectile" things are exempt still, curse, fury, etc for example. But then then cripple becomes an exception, being a dot. Other things would be added to the reflect list like pulse, bird and skoria (it can be cloaked as it has a direct hit and a separate AoE)

Gives a clear opening to pressure, as is the strength against tanks, but not brainless spammable spamming.

It doesn't solve the problem of it being eaten with nothing back for openworld though. A per person reflect, or infinite but limited reflect are also options around that. Infinite but limited being either a short 2.5s duration, a deflect, or 4s but have a lower range limit, so if the enemy is near melee, they can break wings at the cost of being close to an angry dk.

4s inf+limited ranged deflect with 4s snare immunity with fire morph being a reflect with no immunity are both abilities i'd run. Better counterplay, better openworld. I only use wings now because if I don't I'd get deleted by sorc rune combos.

ak_pvp · July 2018

Krotha wrote: »

I've ran prisoner's rags for the last week on my SDK for a DW/2H playstyle and all I can say is WOW. I play as an orc and the synergy from orc passives and the sprint cost reduction from prisoner's essentially solves the mobility issues of SDK. With proper timing of fragmented shield and some pieces of well-fitted you can "infinitely" sprint. The magicka sustain from prisoner's is enough to maintain reflective plate, hardened/volatile armor, and fragmented shield with limited effort. I will definitely be keeping prisoner's rags on for the upcoming patch on my Werewolf build to provide the same benefits and help sustain healing.

What SDK needs are more stamina based abilities.

- Green Dragon Blood should cost stam and scale off of max stam similar to coagulating blood.
- Choking talons should cost stam to provide SDKs better capabilities to mitigate dmg in group play for PvP.
- I would love a stamina based "exhale" that does poison dmg and applies minor defile

Reducing the magicka cost of earthern heart abilities (10-20%) would help SDKs out tremendously and eliminate the need to force a SDK to run prisoner's rags or stack extra magicka. SDK's resource management can be hard for newer players to learn and a reduction would help them out greatly. However, there needs to be a balance with MDKs which is where doing something like this gets tricky. At a certain point in reducing magicka costs an MDK will be able to infinitely sustain defensive abilities.

Reduce the cost of wings by 15% and you will have happy SDKs. Little adjustments are what we need until the proper balance is found. I do miss the days of rocking the old syrabane set and infinite wings but such a thing would create real DK monsters in the battle field which could deter newer players from wanting to shoot sticks at me from a distance.

Choking is the tank debuff morph, so would have to stay mag, and I can get behind stam GDB, but then most will run FM like wardens do keeping a burst heal, since FM is super cheap, gives a useful hot anyway and 8s>>>>2s. Stam exhale is good and fits the best thematically.

Gprime31 · July 2018

Mag dk is op, cauterize, coag, wings and an undodgable cc, might have to respec my Stam DK

Hutch679 · July 2018

Argonian stam dk, Tri stat glyphs on big pieces w shacklebreaker as your sustain set, tri stat potions.... voila! No magicka issues. Even in no cp I dont have issues with magicka on my stam dk. Stam dk is strong you just have to build to its strengths. I.e. dots, reverb bash, 1h&shield main bar, tanky heavy armor... troll king, shacklebreaker, sloads is legit (yeah I know sloads is OP). Run 3 swift jewelry. Run immovable speed pots. Tons of options to get magic sustain.

*** I have a biased view because I ONLY BG. Take it with a grain of salt.

kaithuzar · July 2018

IMO, people are always going to navigate to “what’s the more OP class right now”.
Stamden right now, Stam DK next patch.

It’s not that stam dk isn’t decent right now, it’s that it’s not OP, any class that’s not number 1 or number 2 is going to cry.

Just because some streamer hasn’t made a unique build demonstrating how it’s good in pvp, doesn’t mean it isn’t. Sure it’s not as good as it once was, but sometimes you need to get creative.

Sure Stam DK needs to be given access to things other players have but, you have to remember dk’s are the tankiest class & blocking mitigates more damage than anything else in game.

So my proposal would be to change how much damage can be mitigated to make them less OP.

I say this because how many nightblades or sorcs do you see running sword & board?
If nightblades & sorcs are typically looked at as the “dps glass cannons” but they can’t kill a s&b stam dk or stam warden, at least not before getting killed, then how is it a good fight?

In order to have a good fight both classes should be able to deal tons of damage similarly, but also have some similar mitigation.
But in this next patch instance you’re going to have glass cannons being able to “maybe/sometimes” be able to kill a Stam DK or stam warden, a Stam DK or stam warden “mostly/almost always” being able to kill a glass cannon.

So if I’m a magic class & using a magical shield then I have 0 benefit having it on my bar when it’s down.
But if I’m a stamina user running a physical sword & shield and I am NOT blocking, there are still defenses/mitigations there which are always active.

I’m not trying to say “buff sorcs”, I’m saying the s&b passives/blocking/shield equipping should be re-looked at & toned down or made more standardized across magicka & stamina builds.

Also, dk’s should have 0 complaints about mobility now that Swift jewelry is out...

ZOS_Mika · July 2018

We have recently removed a great number of insulting and baiting comments from this thread. This is a reminder to keep this discussion civil and constructive. Thank you for your understanding.

ak_pvp · August 2018

kaithuzar wrote: »

IMO, people are always going to navigate to “what’s the more OP class right now”.
Stamden right now, Stam DK next patch.

It’s not that stam dk isn’t decent right now, it’s that it’s not OP, any class that’s not number 1 or number 2 is going to cry.

Just because some streamer hasn’t made a unique build demonstrating how it’s good in pvp, doesn’t mean it isn’t. Sure it’s not as good as it once was, but sometimes you need to get creative.

Sure Stam DK needs to be given access to things other players have but, you have to remember dk’s are the tankiest class & blocking mitigates more damage than anything else in game.

So my proposal would be to change how much damage can be mitigated to make them less OP.

I say this because how many nightblades or sorcs do you see running sword & board?
If nightblades & sorcs are typically looked at as the “dps glass cannons” but they can’t kill a s&b stam dk or stam warden, at least not before getting killed, then how is it a good fight?

In order to have a good fight both classes should be able to deal tons of damage similarly, but also have some similar mitigation.
But in this next patch instance you’re going to have glass cannons being able to “maybe/sometimes” be able to kill a Stam DK or stam warden, a Stam DK or stam warden “mostly/almost always” being able to kill a glass cannon.

So if I’m a magic class & using a magical shield then I have 0 benefit having it on my bar when it’s down.
But if I’m a stamina user running a physical sword & shield and I am NOT blocking, there are still defenses/mitigations there which are always active.

I’m not trying to say “buff sorcs”, I’m saying the s&b passives/blocking/shield equipping should be re-looked at & toned down or made more standardized across magicka & stamina builds.

Also, dk’s should have 0 complaints about mobility now that Swift jewelry is out...

All incorrect, sorry mate.

A good NB or sorc should never die to either stamden or stamDK, and can escape when they want. They can however be stalemated.

DK is tankier than other classes, but at a bigger cost of no good escape, or non tanky defense (wings as pure defense sucks hard, its basically a limted shield) They'd need something on par with cloak.

DK is also less tanky than a warden because of the way the passives work. Minor protection>Both DKs passives which are limited to either blocking, which is unsustainable and loses damage or spell resist only. Warden also has spell and phys passive.
Even after wings, a stamden will still be miles better than stamDK. Cheap absorb with heroism+class burst heal>>>>>>>2s immunity/reflect + burst rally.

S/B heavy builds give up more than any other builds in the game already for less survival than a magsorc/stamblade, see how either hits, and then how they survive better though non tanky methods. If this wasn't true, meta wouldn't be blade/sorc and meta for mag wouldn't be light/shields. Swift sacrifices a lot for speed where other classes get it free, its definitely cool but you lose even more damage.

sly007 · August 2018

ItsNebula wrote: »

I love the class, i really do... but since wings are getting (Or have) Snare Immunity, it seems like its just KILLED class diversity in PvP. (PC NA)

Before.. you would NEVER see DK's.. or if you did, they never ran wings.. but why wouldnt you wanna play a Stam DK now?
Stam DK's pretty much do NOT need to run medium armor.. why? Theyre very tanky in heavy.. and now in Heavy, they dont need Forward Momentum.. why?
Wings gives the immunity and removal of snares. So they run rally for the burst heal.

So why not play a class that has pretty damn good damage, very tanky, major mending, class snare immunity/removal, can run 2 really good Burst Heals with a HoT, ON TOP of having a skill.. ONE skill that completely counters 2 classes...

MagSorc and MagBlade. (MagSorc to an extent)

Imo, the version of Wings that gives Snare Removal and Immunity, shouldn't reflect skills, but instead absorb them.

That might be to much, and wings is VERY handy for out numbered situations, but when it comes to 1v1's, or just GvG's, 1v2's etc.. its almost to OP imo.
I hate asking/suggesting another DK nerf since they get nerfed pretty much every patch, but i think wings have gone a little to far now.

Whats your guy's opinion on wings now?

Lol, stam warden in heavy have a burst heal and snare immunity.

FloppyTouch · August 2018

Nerf dk I want to be the only one

Juhasow · August 2018

ItsNebula wrote: »

I love the class, i really do... but since wings are getting (Or have) Snare Immunity, it seems like its just KILLED class diversity in PvP. (PC NA)

Before.. you would NEVER see DK's.. or if you did, they never ran wings.. but why wouldnt you wanna play a Stam DK now?
Stam DK's pretty much do NOT need to run medium armor.. why? Theyre very tanky in heavy.. and now in Heavy, they dont need Forward Momentum.. why?
Wings gives the immunity and removal of snares. So they run rally for the burst heal.

So why not play a class that has pretty damn good damage, very tanky, major mending, class snare immunity/removal, can run 2 really good Burst Heals with a HoT, ON TOP of having a skill.. ONE skill that completely counters 2 classes...

MagSorc and MagBlade. (MagSorc to an extent)

Imo, the version of Wings that gives Snare Removal and Immunity, shouldn't reflect skills, but instead absorb them.

That might be to much, and wings is VERY handy for out numbered situations, but when it comes to 1v1's, or just GvG's, 1v2's etc.. its almost to OP imo.
I hate asking/suggesting another DK nerf since they get nerfed pretty much every patch, but i think wings have gone a little to far now.

Whats your guy's opinion on wings now?

I dont have any issues with dragonknights getting some mobility. Each class should have atleast a little bit of mobility builded into it. As for stamina DKs giving up on forward momentum I dont think that will happen since 8 seconds immunity scaled from main resource is far more superior to 2 seconds immunity scaled of secondary resource. You would have to keep up wings snare immunity 100% of a time in some fights which is much harder then keeping forward momentum 100% of a time. It's 4 casts of wings vs 1 cast of FM.

As for magsorc/magblade concers I am agreeing on magblade part. Magsorc only projectile is frag and magsorcs are not relying on applying slows/immobilize on enemy so they are still competyitive agaisnt wings. Magblades however are really screwed. First of all Cripling Grasp is getting nerfed significantly which is a hit for magblades. If You want to run destro/resto magblade You are pretty much 100% projectile user or You're forced to slot force shock but this forces sacrifices on passives from abilities slotted or limits Your options of abilities You can slot. Your only hope to fight dk was to find gap between his wings and use cripling grasp now even this is gone. If You want to run with forward momentum and 2 hander You're loosing dmg and You're turning Yourself into meele magblade and currently playing magblade from meele is not that easy outside of some gank setups. With the change to both wings and cripling grasp I think that atleast Cripling Grasp should be turned into non projectile otherwise wings will be basicly 1 button that removes range magblade from the fight since it's not only reducing his dmg but also turns his dmg against him.

Aliyavana · August 2018

Should also be applied to stam sorcs, the mobile class

leepalmer95 · August 2018

This is a weird, thread.

Wings buff isn't going to make it op...

ExcaliburESO · August 2018

If u notice the best mag sorcs are the one who mained other classes before the main sorcs that never played anything else cry for buffs and still get rekt cuz they never l2p this game in first place.

ItsNebula · August 2018

sly007 wrote: »

ItsNebula wrote: »

I love the class, i really do... but since wings are getting (Or have) Snare Immunity, it seems like its just KILLED class diversity in PvP. (PC NA)

Before.. you would NEVER see DK's.. or if you did, they never ran wings.. but why wouldnt you wanna play a Stam DK now?
Stam DK's pretty much do NOT need to run medium armor.. why? Theyre very tanky in heavy.. and now in Heavy, they dont need Forward Momentum.. why?
Wings gives the immunity and removal of snares. So they run rally for the burst heal.

So why not play a class that has pretty damn good damage, very tanky, major mending, class snare immunity/removal, can run 2 really good Burst Heals with a HoT, ON TOP of having a skill.. ONE skill that completely counters 2 classes...

MagSorc and MagBlade. (MagSorc to an extent)

Imo, the version of Wings that gives Snare Removal and Immunity, shouldn't reflect skills, but instead absorb them.

That might be to much, and wings is VERY handy for out numbered situations, but when it comes to 1v1's, or just GvG's, 1v2's etc.. its almost to OP imo.
I hate asking/suggesting another DK nerf since they get nerfed pretty much every patch, but i think wings have gone a little to far now.

Whats your guy's opinion on wings now?

Lol, stam warden in heavy have a burst heal and snare immunity.

StamWarden also does no dmg pretty much.. ive seen MAYBE 3-4 Stamdens that can actually deal dmg..
Its super easy to dodge there burst, its actually a joke on how easy it is to dodge there burst, you have to actually be half brain dead if you cant dodge a StamWardens burst

ItsNebula · August 2018

kaithuzar wrote: »

IMO, people are always going to navigate to “what’s the more OP class right now”.
Stamden right now, Stam DK next patch.

It’s not that stam dk isn’t decent right now, it’s that it’s not OP, any class that’s not number 1 or number 2 is going to cry.

Just because some streamer hasn’t made a unique build demonstrating how it’s good in pvp, doesn’t mean it isn’t. Sure it’s not as good as it once was, but sometimes you need to get creative.

Sure Stam DK needs to be given access to things other players have but, you have to remember dk’s are the tankiest class & blocking mitigates more damage than anything else in game.

So my proposal would be to change how much damage can be mitigated to make them less OP.

I say this because how many nightblades or sorcs do you see running sword & board?
If nightblades & sorcs are typically looked at as the “dps glass cannons” but they can’t kill a s&b stam dk or stam warden, at least not before getting killed, then how is it a good fight?

In order to have a good fight both classes should be able to deal tons of damage similarly, but also have some similar mitigation.
But in this next patch instance you’re going to have glass cannons being able to “maybe/sometimes” be able to kill a Stam DK or stam warden, a Stam DK or stam warden “mostly/almost always” being able to kill a glass cannon.

So if I’m a magic class & using a magical shield then I have 0 benefit having it on my bar when it’s down.
But if I’m a stamina user running a physical sword & shield and I am NOT blocking, there are still defenses/mitigations there which are always active.

I’m not trying to say “buff sorcs”, I’m saying the s&b passives/blocking/shield equipping should be re-looked at & toned down or made more standardized across magicka & stamina builds.

Also, dk’s should have 0 complaints about mobility now that Swift jewelry is out...

I couldnt agree with this anymore..

Only thing i have against DK's tho is that its pretty much the ONLY class that can 110% wipe out a class from the fight..
DK v MagBlade, if the DK is any good the DK will always win (IF the DK has wings, which why wouldnt they run wings now? And IF the MagBlade is range, but why would you go Melee magblade? Might as well be Stam at that point)
I cant think of any other class that can completely throw out another class from the fight.. people might say Wardens can with Shimmering, but they can only get so much mag back from it and use is to many times against MagSorcs and Blades

gannicus1389 · August 2018

DKs need a buff on noxious breath, world in ruins, maybe venomous claws. I think in a meta where everything hit like a truck, depending on dot class abilities just make the class very hindered compared to other stamina classes that posses burst classes. not to mention multiple things can purge our abilities and basically erase our offensive abilities from existance.