Possible solution to fake tanks.

Guppet · July 2018

What you could do is have it so any taunt gives the player who queued as tank aggro. Any taunt from anyone. So the other dps and healer could taunt and force aggro on the tank.

That way if they agree to no tank they don’t need to do it, but if they don’t appreciate the fake tank, they can force him to tank.

Or they could add a new undaunted skill. One that sends aggro to the designated tank (who ever chose the role). Call it “it was him!”

This could even help new tanks.

Could this work?

Salvas_Aren · July 2018

Nope. There might be situations where the tank does not want/need aggro.

Or imagine situations where one DD might want to tank as well and can't.

Guppet · July 2018

Salvas_Aren wrote: »

Nope. There might be situations where the tank does not want/need aggro.

Or imagine situations where one DD might want to tank as well and can't.

And how often do those occur compared to fake tanks?

When exactly does a dps need to take aggro? When exactly does a tank not want aggro?

kojou · July 2018

The best way would be to kick the "fake tank" from the group if the player was preventing the group from completion.

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO · July 2018

Fake tanks really shouldn't be that much of a problem. If you die to trash mobs and the first boss because your tank isn't holding aggro, you kick them. Easy as that. But if your "fake tank" is on a normal dungeon with some competent DPS and a healer, they might be doing you a favor by making the run go faster.

If someone queues as a fake tank for a vet dungeon though, you'll find out very quickly, and kick them just as swiftly. Then it's their problem to try and group when they can't fulfill the role they accepted.

p00tx · July 2018

The only time you see people queue as a "fake tank" is on normal dungeons, and you don't need a tank for those. Even given that, it's not that difficult to slot Puncture or Inner Rage .

Guppet · July 2018

p00tx wrote: »

The only time you see people queue as a "fake tank" is on normal dungeons, and you don't need a tank for those. Even given that, it's not that difficult to slot Puncture or Inner Rage .

And if the rest of the group agrees they need no tank, they don’t use taunt. If however they don’t agree, then that tank is tanking.

Guppet · July 2018

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

Fake tanks really shouldn't be that much of a problem. If you die to trash mobs and the first boss because your tank isn't holding aggro, you kick them. Easy as that. But if your "fake tank" is on a normal dungeon with some competent DPS and a healer, they might be doing you a favor by making the run go faster.

If someone queues as a fake tank for a vet dungeon though, you'll find out very quickly, and kick them just as swiftly. Then it's their problem to try and group when they can't fulfill the role they accepted.

That only works if they have not queued with a friend, if they have then you can’t kick and they both skip the queue.

Valrien · July 2018

Normal mobs do like no damage though. You actually do not need a tank for most normal dungeons, no matter what the group "agrees with"

I wouldn't do it, but I hardly give a crap about the people that do

Guppet · July 2018

Valrien wrote: »

Normal mobs do like no damage though. You actually do not need a tank for most normal dungeons, no matter what the group "agrees with"

I wouldn't do it, but I hardly give a crap about the people that do

So what the rest of the group wants, does not matter? Only one player gets to choose?

Again if the group agrees with no tank, they won’t force them to.

kargen27 · July 2018

Guppet wrote: »

Salvas_Aren wrote: »

Nope. There might be situations where the tank does not want/need aggro.

Or imagine situations where one DD might want to tank as well and can't.

And how often do those occur compared to fake tanks?

When exactly does a dps need to take aggro? When exactly does a tank not want aggro?

When you want to separate bosses from trash or if you have two or three bosses and want DPS to concentrate on one while tank keeps other busy or when you need a certain number of evil doers up when the boss dies so tank lets the boss roam free while he keeps the other evil doers busy or...

That aside if the DPS has to slot a taunt just in case the tank is fake that means their rotation is affected causing even more problems because of the fake tank.

Guppet · July 2018

kargen27 wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

Salvas_Aren wrote: »

Nope. There might be situations where the tank does not want/need aggro.

Or imagine situations where one DD might want to tank as well and can't.

And how often do those occur compared to fake tanks?

When exactly does a dps need to take aggro? When exactly does a tank not want aggro?

When you want to separate bosses from trash or if you have two or three bosses and want DPS to concentrate on one while tank keeps other busy or when you need a certain number of evil doers up when the boss dies so tank lets the boss roam free while he keeps the other evil doers busy or...

That aside if the DPS has to slot a taunt just in case the tank is fake that means their rotation is affected causing even more problems because of the fake tank.

Tank can still taunt one while the rest take out what ever is not taunted. You don’t have to taunt every mob, same as now.

Dps or healer would only slot taunt when they realise tank is fake.

SydneyGrey · July 2018

Interesting idea. The issue I see with it is that if we're in a room full of a giant monster boss and a dozen adds, that it would aggro EVERYTHING in the room to the tank, and he might not be able to handle every single mob at once. His main job is to keep the big boss(es) aggro'ed, not necessarily every single mob in the room depending on how many there are. You don't want a dead tank because he suddenly has to deal with a mega boss AND 12 smaller mobs all at the same time.

PlagueSD · July 2018

Guppet wrote: »

Dps or healer would only slot taunt when they realize tank is fake.

Right...Like players will queue as tank when they really want to tank. Relying on players to do the "right" thing will NEVER work.

Also, I don't even have skill points in taunt on my DPS characters. None of them use S&B and don't have the undaunted skill. That's no even an option for me.

Guppet · July 2018

SydneyGrey wrote: »

Interesting idea. The issue I see with it is that if we're in a room full of a giant monster boss and a dozen adds, that it would aggro EVERYTHING in the room to the tank, and he might not be able to handle every single mob at once. His main job is to keep the big boss(es) aggro'ed, not necessarily every single mob in the room depending on how many there are. You don't want a dead tank because he suddenly has to deal with a mega boss AND 12 smaller mobs all at the same time.

Only things which are taunted would aggro to him. Though I suppose if the other players feel like putting them all on him, that could happen. I guess it would impact the meta and start tanks for dungeons gearing more for survival. I don’t see that as a bad thing.

D0PAMINE · July 2018

Won't work, and will likely cause more issues.

kargen27 · July 2018

Guppet wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

Salvas_Aren wrote: »

Nope. There might be situations where the tank does not want/need aggro.

Or imagine situations where one DD might want to tank as well and can't.

And how often do those occur compared to fake tanks?

When exactly does a dps need to take aggro? When exactly does a tank not want aggro?

When you want to separate bosses from trash or if you have two or three bosses and want DPS to concentrate on one while tank keeps other busy or when you need a certain number of evil doers up when the boss dies so tank lets the boss roam free while he keeps the other evil doers busy or...

That aside if the DPS has to slot a taunt just in case the tank is fake that means their rotation is affected causing even more problems because of the fake tank.

Tank can still taunt one while the rest take out what ever is not taunted. You don’t have to taunt every mob, same as now.

Dps or healer would only slot taunt when they realise tank is fake.

This is a discussion about fake tanks. Fake tanks do not taunt. The OP wants to force anything taunted by anyone to agro on whoever queued as that tank. If that happens you will probably have a dead fake tank and DPS with taunt skills on their bar. Or the DPS will not slot a taunt so nothing at all changes for most runs. It would throw a wrench in things though when someone other than the tank wants to take the agro.

Guppet · July 2018

PlagueSD wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

Dps or healer would only slot taunt when they realize tank is fake.

Right...Like players will queue as tank when they really want to tank. Relying on players to do the "right" thing will NEVER work.

Also, I don't even have skill points in taunt on my DPS characters. None of them use S&B and don't have the undaunted skill. That's no even an option for me.

Ice staves taunt too. In fact they would then become truly usable by dps players.

Could even provide an idea for a new undaunted skill, sling aggro.

Guppet · July 2018

kargen27 wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

Salvas_Aren wrote: »

Nope. There might be situations where the tank does not want/need aggro.

Or imagine situations where one DD might want to tank as well and can't.

And how often do those occur compared to fake tanks?

When exactly does a dps need to take aggro? When exactly does a tank not want aggro?

When you want to separate bosses from trash or if you have two or three bosses and want DPS to concentrate on one while tank keeps other busy or when you need a certain number of evil doers up when the boss dies so tank lets the boss roam free while he keeps the other evil doers busy or...

That aside if the DPS has to slot a taunt just in case the tank is fake that means their rotation is affected causing even more problems because of the fake tank.

Tank can still taunt one while the rest take out what ever is not taunted. You don’t have to taunt every mob, same as now.

Dps or healer would only slot taunt when they realise tank is fake.

This is a discussion about fake tanks. Fake tanks do not taunt. The OP wants to force anything taunted by anyone to agro on whoever queued as that tank. If that happens you will probably have a dead fake tank and DPS with taunt skills on their bar. Or the DPS will not slot a taunt so nothing at all changes for most runs. It would throw a wrench in things though when someone other than the tank wants to take the agro.

No one other than tank takes aggro now. Name a fight.

Planar inhibitor is not taunts.

PlagueSD · July 2018

Guppet wrote: »

PlagueSD wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

Dps or healer would only slot taunt when they realize tank is fake.

Right...Like players will queue as tank when they really want to tank. Relying on players to do the "right" thing will NEVER work.

Also, I don't even have skill points in taunt on my DPS characters. None of them use S&B and don't have the undaunted skill. That's no even an option for me.

Ice staves taunt too. In fact they would then become truly usable by dps players.

No they wouldn't as the DPS on an frost staff sucks compared to fire and lightning. I've NEVER seen any competent DPS players using a frost staff over a fire staff.

Guppet · July 2018

PlagueSD wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

PlagueSD wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

Dps or healer would only slot taunt when they realize tank is fake.

Right...Like players will queue as tank when they really want to tank. Relying on players to do the "right" thing will NEVER work.

Also, I don't even have skill points in taunt on my DPS characters. None of them use S&B and don't have the undaunted skill. That's no even an option for me.

Ice staves taunt too. In fact they would then become truly usable by dps players.

No they wouldn't as the DPS on an frost staff sucks compared to fire and lightning. I've NEVER seen any competent DPS players using a frost staff over a fire staff.

Well which is it? Competent players would have the undaunted taunt, if it would help them.

So your players are competent enough to run only optimal staves but would never have a taunt even if it would help them? Hmmm.

Truly competent dps players don’t struggle with fake tanks. But most dps are not competent.

VaranisArano · July 2018

Plenty of groups with leveling players or new players benefit from having an actual tank who can hold aggro on the boss, even in normal dungeons.

I certainly appreciate not having to hold boss aggro on my healer. If I wanted to tank, I would have queued on my tank.

I'm not sure that forcing a fake tank to tank is doable though.

SirDopey · July 2018

I feel like the changes coming with the next patch where players will only be able to queue as one role should fix a lot of this anyway

Guppet · July 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

Plenty of groups with leveling players or new players benefit from having an actual tank who can hold aggro on the boss, even in normal dungeons.

I certainly appreciate not having to hold boss aggro on my healer. If I wanted to tank, I would have queued on my tank.

I'm not sure that forcing a fake tank to tank is doable though.

They can hardly complain, they queued as tank.

I’m just wanting the community to start coming up with ideas to fix this. It’s a problem and so far most solutions involve requiring certain stats or skills. To me those can’t work as build here are flexible. The requirement for a tank to taunt should not be flexible.

SteveCampsOut · July 2018

PlagueSD wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

Dps or healer would only slot taunt when they realize tank is fake.

Right...Like players will queue as tank when they really want to tank. Relying on players to do the "right" thing will NEVER work.

Also, I don't even have skill points in taunt on my DPS characters. None of them use S&B and don't have the undaunted skill. That's no even an option for me.

Ice Destro staves still taunt do they not?

LeagueTroll · July 2018

Fake tank is caused by not nuf tank. Not nuf tank is caused by tanks being underprivileged. Maybe the better solution is give real tank more privilege, like see the dmg output of each dd, or tank and healer can kick dd without the other dd agree. These 2 things will be obv more useful for real tank than fake tank.

idk · July 2018

Guppet wrote: »

What you could do is have it so any taunt gives the player who queued as tank aggro. Any taunt from anyone. So the other dps and healer could taunt and force aggro on the tank.

That way if they agree to no tank they don’t need to do it, but if they don’t appreciate the fake tank, they can force him to tank.

This could even help new tanks.

Could this work?

We could make it so whoever queued as tank automatically has agro on everything and make tanking the easiest role in the game.

But seriously, no. Everyone has access to a taunt. You are essentially asking for someone else to tank for the tank.

LeagueTroll wrote: »

Fake tank is caused by not nuf tank. Not nuf tank is caused by tanks being underprivileged. Maybe the better solution is give real tank more privilege, like see the dmg output of each dd, or tank and healer can kick dd without the other dd agree. These 2 things will be obv more useful for real tank than fake tank.

And this is obviously not the solution. LOL. Give the person who queued as a tank the power to troll everyone in the group and kick whomever he/she feels does not measure up.

1. Zos has enough sense to know that does nothing to prevent a fake tank from queueing. Probably would encourage more to queue as a fake tank so they can kick out anyone who hey do not want in the group.
2. Zos has also, very clearly said you cannot see other players damage without them choosing to share it with you. Obviously Zos is not going to let the tank see everyone's damage just because they selected the tank role. That is illogical

Besides, if you were a decent tank you would be in a decent raid guild and have on reason to be concerned about the dps others put out.

Guppet · July 2018

idk wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

What you could do is have it so any taunt gives the player who queued as tank aggro. Any taunt from anyone. So the other dps and healer could taunt and force aggro on the tank.

That way if they agree to no tank they don’t need to do it, but if they don’t appreciate the fake tank, they can force him to tank.

This could even help new tanks.

Could this work?

We could make it so whoever queued as tank automatically has agro on everything and make tanking the easiest role in the game.

But seriously, no. Everyone has access to a taunt. You are essentially asking for someone else to tank for the tank.

LeagueTroll wrote: »

Fake tank is caused by not nuf tank. Not nuf tank is caused by tanks being underprivileged. Maybe the better solution is give real tank more privilege, like see the dmg output of each dd, or tank and healer can kick dd without the other dd agree. These 2 things will be obv more useful for real tank than fake tank.

And this is obviously not the solution. LOL. Give the person who queued as a tank the power to troll everyone in the group and kick whomever he/she feels does not measure up.

1. Zos has enough sense to know that does nothing to prevent a fake tank from queueing. Probably would encourage more to queue as a fake tank so they can kick out anyone who hey do not want in the group.
2. Zos has also, very clearly said you cannot see other players damage without them choosing to share it with you. Obviously Zos is not going to let the tank see everyone's damage just because they selected the tank role. That is illogical

Besides, if you were a decent tank you would be in a decent raid guild and have on reason to be concerned about the dps others put out.

Tanking means to take the hits. The other players would not be taking the hits. The fake tank would.

This would not be any issue for real tanks. But fake ones would get mullered until they actually geared and skilled to tank. They could still fake tank, but it would not be enjoyable.

areeb14_ESO · July 2018

Why not make it so someone can only Que as a tank with a skill that can taunt on their bar, once they que up the taunt skill is locked in place. I know it won't force them to actually use it, still it's an idea.

Guppet · July 2018

Given the problems messing with taunt could cause. Such as someone else wanting aggro, then maybe it could be it’s own skill.

Undaunted “it was him!” Sends aggro to designated group tank.

Kind of like misdirect or tricks of the trade. But only to the tank.

LeagueTroll · July 2018

idk wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

What you could do is have it so any taunt gives the player who queued as tank aggro. Any taunt from anyone. So the other dps and healer could taunt and force aggro on the tank.

That way if they agree to no tank they don’t need to do it, but if they don’t appreciate the fake tank, they can force him to tank.

This could even help new tanks.

Could this work?

We could make it so whoever queued as tank automatically has agro on everything and make tanking the easiest role in the game.

But seriously, no. Everyone has access to a taunt. You are essentially asking for someone else to tank for the tank.

LeagueTroll wrote: »

Fake tank is caused by not nuf tank. Not nuf tank is caused by tanks being underprivileged. Maybe the better solution is give real tank more privilege, like see the dmg output of each dd, or tank and healer can kick dd without the other dd agree. These 2 things will be obv more useful for real tank than fake tank.

And this is obviously not the solution. LOL. Give the person who queued as a tank the power to troll everyone in the group and kick whomever he/she feels does not measure up.

1. Zos has enough sense to know that does nothing to prevent a fake tank from queueing. Probably would encourage more to queue as a fake tank so they can kick out anyone who hey do not want in the group.
2. Zos has also, very clearly said you cannot see other players damage without them choosing to share it with you. Obviously Zos is not going to let the tank see everyone's damage just because they selected the tank role. That is illogical

Besides, if you were a decent tank you would be in a decent raid guild and have on reason to be concerned about the dps others put out.

No it’s not kick whoever tank want. Healer need to agree, healer obv tends to disagree with fake tank. And protecting the feeling of garb dd is exactly why newbie tank is underprivileged. I am speaking for newbie tank.