What would be a reason you would kick a healer from group?

Skayaq · July 2018

The only reason I would kick a healer from a group is if they were not actually healing.

XxCaLxX · July 2018

Prefer to not even have a healer for any vet dungeon if I do then it’s my wife and have no reason to kick. In vet trials you should have healers you know that know what they’re doing. In normal dungeon/trials any healer that can press one or two buttons with healings springs and BoL should suffice. IMO outside of Hard mode SCP/FL and non craglorn vet trials 95% of healers above 160 should be fine. But when you have players a couple months in at max cp looking for carries and are clueless for the
Most part they will need someone to put the fall on and guess who it’ll be.

DedEmbryonicCell19 · July 2018

I don't think I would ever truly kick anyone .. that's how I felt until last night ..

Had a healer in a dungeon who I believe did not heal us more than 4 times through out the dungeon .. He would just circle around trying to DPS everything and he would constantly die .. we left him dead most of the time lol ..

I'm a stamblade so I'm squishy and I'm used to being able to sit in the pocket and just DPS while my healer took care of me, wow how much different it is when the healer does not heal .. luckily my other teammates were good and we revived each other and got through the dungeon but my goodness that healer was no healer, wasn't even a DPS ..

Sparr0w · July 2018

adeptusminor wrote: »

If I get 1 shot with 15.1k health, I ALWAYS will blame the healer

I run with 12k most of the time on a stage 4 vamp

Sparr0w · July 2018

Never really, cleared vet scalecaller with a cp300 sorc healer running DW/Lightning, only heal was the repeated spam of his pet.

Asardes · July 2018

If he doesn't heal, and doesn't help the group in any other way. I have no problem running with 3 DDs, even if one joined as "fake" healer, but I will kick useless player from the group right away if we failed to pass a boss. For example I do join as fake healer if I do normal dungeons farm or daily random on my Templar, but even in DD gear I do provide:
- healing: Ritual of Retribution, Purifying Light
- sustain: Blessed Shards (Blazing Spear synergy)
- purges: Purify (Ritual of Retribution synergy)
- buffs: Minor Sorcery (Illuminate passive)
- debuffs: Major Breach & Minor Magicka Steal (Elemental Drain), Minor Vulnerability (Infallible Mage), concussed (Blockade of Lighting)
So I'm not that "fake" http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=52324

Beardimus · July 2018

Aside from a troll. I'd never kick anyone.

Sure if someone says they can vet heal DSA or a trial and totally cant a change might need to happen like bring in another healer and move them to secondary. But someone not being good enough etc or learning, if i grouped with then o see its a team get to all get through.

The majority of content its bad DPS that hold the group up

DuskMarine · July 2018

Tasear wrote: »

What are your personal guildlines for healers? What crosses them? How skilled do you think the average healer is in a group? What is acceptable amount of skill in dungeons? Do you have different requirements from normal to vet?

Thanks in advance for all your guys insights.

the guy has to be doing no heals at all for me to boot them. the i can dps too mentality from a healer is completely unacceptable to me. your main damage is blockade but thats to mostly buff me not make you a dps. a healer should be a healer and buffer not a dps or a tank.

Yusuf · July 2018

When the healer dies multiple times while the DDs haven't died once yet he is OUT

rumple9 · July 2018

I've been kicked from pugs for heavy attacking. Said I should be healing and not fighting !

craftycarper73 · July 2018

DjinnRa wrote: »

If we keep dying even when doing the mechanics right because the healer is clueless, that would do it.

Or maybe the tank isnt holding the aggro, maybe the dps just refuse to move out of stupid, maybe the healer isnt that good, who knows, but its quite a bit of pointing the finger to blame a healer solely for not keeping everyone alive.. everyone in the group contributes to staying alive imo.

EDS604 · July 2018

Keep group alive, don't die of stupid, throw orbs or shards. Oh and take critic when someone suggests you use shards or orbs. Had a few occasions people came up with the most stupid reasons why they're not throwing them. The most precious one i will never forget: "I'm a healer, not a resource machine..." or "one bubble isn't going to help you sustain, that's like 1 regen tick". IDK What DD runs 4k regen in PvE, but okay? xD

exeeter702 · July 2018

I find it funny that some people demand resources sustain utility in content that only marginally requires a healer.

Frankly, to answer the question, im more inclined to kick a healer from a dungeon group if they roll up with worm+orbs+ele drain+springs spam basically ready to heal a trial, coming in thinking that is even remotely usefull in 4 man content. Bring some solid back up damage, an emergency heal plus a few tertiary healing like mutagen and whatever class triage you have access to.

If the dps is rock solid, no amount of resource sustain utiltiy will matter because their builds are optimized and the fights will hardly last long at all. If the dps is absolutely atrocious, no amount of resource sustain utility is going to increase their damage and you are simply better off spot healing whoever has aggro on the heavy hitters while dpsing yourself.

KraziJoe · July 2018

Was dragged through Scalecaller Peak as a Healer. I was told to stand here and make sure we don't die, so that's what I did. Though I did die once to the Ogre pair, but after that we finished it off on Vet and in Hard mode.
Just throw Mutagen, Healing Springs, a few orbs, a few shards, Combat Prayer and War Horn. Toss in a few Heavy attacks and Elemental Blockade and you are all set.

angelncelestine · July 2018

I personally feel it’s very sad that very little content in this game requires a healer in this game anymore. IMO a good healer provides heals/buffs/shards/bubbles. I heal quite often so I pretty much blame the tank ;-) When I dps I pretty much expect the same things I do when I heal. I don’t usually kick anyone from a group unless they are an a hole or really have no clue. This is of course after advice is offered, and they refuse to listen. Fake tanks in harder vet dungeons though gotta go.

GarnetFire17 · July 2018

Would only kick someone for being super rude and salty. If it's just a matter of poor play or taking too long I would politely bow out myself.

Donnasnowheart_ESO · July 2018

They would have to be dying nonstop for me and show zero signs of progressive after each death in which case I would prob just leave myself.

Outside of that though healing needs to have more of an impact in this game tbh its by far imo the least fun and boring role to fulfill in this game while in a pve setting buffs included its not difficult at all to throw out shards/bubbles and ele drain especially with the already small amount of healing required. Half the time concussed isn't even needed because theirs always some sorc with a lighting staff around.

Azuramoonstar · July 2018

angelncelestine wrote: »

I personally feel it’s very sad that very little content in this game requires a healer in this game anymore. IMO a good healer provides heals/buffs/shards/bubbles. I heal quite often so I pretty much blame the tank ;-) When I dps I pretty much expect the same things I do when I heal. I don’t usually kick anyone from a group unless they are an a hole or really have no clue. This is of course after advice is offered, and they refuse to listen. Fake tanks in harder vet dungeons though gotta go.

pretty good attitude, and this is a thing a;most all MMO are suffering, even ff14 healers are mostly dps that heal on occasion.

one thing though, and this goes to everyone, the best way to give advice is to ask before offering a quick "hey want some tips?" or "would you like some advice" goes a long way. You can't force a person to accept advice, nor is it smart for people to accept all advice, as trolls do exist and will give bad advice (had his happen in mmo).

People will get defensive if advice is forced on them.

I kinda miss the early days of MMO as players were willing to teach other players. Now it seems people "don't have the time" but berate and kick out people who are learning the game, job/class, or content

Chicharron · July 2018

Tasear wrote: »

What are your personal guildlines for healers? What crosses them? How skilled do you think the average healer is in a group? What is acceptable amount of skill in dungeons? Do you have different requirements from normal to vet?

Thanks in advance for all your guys insights.

Because he or she can not heal, Vet Only, in normal i dont care.

newtinmpls · July 2018

notyuu wrote: »

what makes me kick healers? simple if they match three of these..then it's a boot
no orbs in vet
dps dying despite doing mechanics right
the tank dying despite doing everything right
screeching about not being protected after aggroing the group with a light attack
refusing to res
refusing to heal the dps
using repentance [you're a healer..wtf do you need that much stamina for?]

Healers should never rez; that's a good way to get the whole group killed.

KraziJoe · July 2018

newtinmpls wrote: »

notyuu wrote: »

what makes me kick healers? simple if they match three of these..then it's a boot
no orbs in vet
dps dying despite doing mechanics right
the tank dying despite doing everything right
screeching about not being protected after aggroing the group with a light attack
refusing to res
refusing to heal the dps
using repentance [you're a healer..wtf do you need that much stamina for?]

Healers should never rez; that's a good way to get the whole group killed.

If I need to rez, I though a mutagen, Springs and 2 orbs before I start rezzing and drop if it I have too.

angelncelestine · July 2018

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

angelncelestine wrote: »

I personally feel it’s very sad that very little content in this game requires a healer in this game anymore. IMO a good healer provides heals/buffs/shards/bubbles. I heal quite often so I pretty much blame the tank ;-) When I dps I pretty much expect the same things I do when I heal. I don’t usually kick anyone from a group unless they are an a hole or really have no clue. This is of course after advice is offered, and they refuse to listen. Fake tanks in harder vet dungeons though gotta go.

pretty good attitude, and this is a thing a;most all MMO are suffering, even ff14 healers are mostly dps that heal on occasion.

one thing though, and this goes to everyone, the best way to give advice is to ask before offering a quick "hey want some tips?" or "would you like some advice" goes a long way. You can't force a person to accept advice, nor is it smart for people to accept all advice, as trolls do exist and will give bad advice (had his happen in mmo).

People will get defensive if advice is forced on them.

I kinda miss the early days of MMO as players were willing to teach other players. Now it seems people "don't have the time" but berate and kick out people who are learning the game, job/class, or content

Sadly I think some people forget how it was when they were new and learning. I have over 1000 CP(OMG I have no life lol), but I still remember how hard things use to be, and confused I was. I also still remember all of the nice people that helped me along way. Because of this I have patience for a lot more then some folks do.

ghastley · July 2018

I'm with the "don't kick anyone from normal" sentiment. Assuming they're there to learn, of course. And I'd include keeping a fake healer or tank who really only wanted to learn to DPS.

I'm sure everyone has an anecdote about how having a fake in the group makes it more "interesting". Lack of tank leads to more "interesting" results than lack of healer, IMO. Even a fake healer can rez you, if they're not dead too.

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO · July 2018

I would only vote to kick a healer who was trying to DPS and caused the group members to keep dying. If we make it through the content in a reasonable amount of time, I could care less if they heal with a bow wearing heavy armor. Just do your job and keep us alive.

kojou · July 2018

Lack of situational awareness... I don't know. I rarely kick anybody.

Azuramoonstar · July 2018

angelncelestine wrote: »

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

angelncelestine wrote: »

I personally feel it’s very sad that very little content in this game requires a healer in this game anymore. IMO a good healer provides heals/buffs/shards/bubbles. I heal quite often so I pretty much blame the tank ;-) When I dps I pretty much expect the same things I do when I heal. I don’t usually kick anyone from a group unless they are an a hole or really have no clue. This is of course after advice is offered, and they refuse to listen. Fake tanks in harder vet dungeons though gotta go.

pretty good attitude, and this is a thing a;most all MMO are suffering, even ff14 healers are mostly dps that heal on occasion.

one thing though, and this goes to everyone, the best way to give advice is to ask before offering a quick "hey want some tips?" or "would you like some advice" goes a long way. You can't force a person to accept advice, nor is it smart for people to accept all advice, as trolls do exist and will give bad advice (had his happen in mmo).

People will get defensive if advice is forced on them.

I kinda miss the early days of MMO as players were willing to teach other players. Now it seems people "don't have the time" but berate and kick out people who are learning the game, job/class, or content

Sadly I think some people forget how it was when they were new and learning. I have over 1000 CP(OMG I have no life lol), but I still remember how hard things use to be, and confused I was. I also still remember all of the nice people that helped me along way. Because of this I have patience for a lot more then some folks do.

ya i know, i recall my first capped dungeon in ff14, I was doing the first relic weapon dungeon as a fresh 50. the healer insulted me to no end because I was not pulling fast enough (as in i was not pulling pack after pack of mobs before stopping) i did tell the group it was my first time there, and that I was still learning and just dinged 50. healer went so far as to say I should have been a stain on the bed sheets because I was so "bad". I wasn't even bad, what made me "bad" was i was not pulling 5 groups of mobs before stopping, but i knew I didn't have the gear to do so.

I don't like when ppl assume others are bad because of not meeting some petty expectation. level does not equal skill, not anymore at least. I'm a level 20+ (i think) and still have lil to no clue how to really play. I'm mostly just leveling up my trees weapon, and armor skill. Time = skill, and in most cases a person playing a month will/may not be as skilled as a person playing for 4 years. I recall the days of it taking months to lvl in MMO it is no longer the case, and peoples level should really determine skill, nor should it be a reason to kick.

Helping those who want the help goes a long way. Only thing i dislike is ppl on ps4's advice is "play the meta" which is imo bad advice, as 1 there are no details, 2 metas change, 3 metas are not the end all/be all. Which is my mindset is often looked down upon, but my years of mmo playing taught me that metas are more of a "easy win" nothing more. If you have fun following the metas, cool. If you don't, don't force yourself. Playing well comes with having fun. As long as you play the role you picked, idc how you build it or set it up.

Agenericname · July 2018

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

notyuu wrote: »

SydneyGrey wrote: »

notyuu wrote: »

refusing to res

Healers aren't supposed to rez in ESO. One of the DPS is supposed to do that.

ok, picture this... healer and dead guy are one one side of a mechanic kill wall, tank is busy with boss, other dps is one other side of the mechanic kill wall so they can't get in to res....now if the healer dosn't res, then they are just being an ass.

Hell, I'll often rez as tank to make sure the DPS doesn't stop doing damage on base game vet dungeons. I want to kill things faster and their isn't enough damage to kill me while I'm rezzing a DPS. If the boss is already taunted and the DPS is near me, what is my contribution while one dps is rezzing another dps? My debuffs are useless if noone is doing substantial damage to the boss.

Of course, this depends on the boss.

In 4 person content this expectation seems less rigid than trials.

Sometimes it makes more sense for me as a healer to res than it does to pull the one functional DD out of the fight to do it.

On topic, if I'm on my DD and I die, I probably stood in something I shouldn't have or ignored something I shouldn't have, or perhaps just an unlucky one-shot. Unless the healer simply isnt healing I usually don't have much to say about it. That's been a rare occurrence.

Elemental drain, shards, and orbs are awesome.

Azuramoonstar · July 2018

newtinmpls wrote: »

notyuu wrote: »

what makes me kick healers? simple if they match three of these..then it's a boot
no orbs in vet
dps dying despite doing mechanics right
the tank dying despite doing everything right
screeching about not being protected after aggroing the group with a light attack
refusing to res
refusing to heal the dps
using repentance [you're a healer..wtf do you need that much stamina for?]

Healers should never rez; that's a good way to get the whole group killed.

in most MMO healers are the one with raise/rez. ESO only mmo with no native raise spell and uses an item to raise, but the item in question is generally how long a raise spell is cast. tbh it would be better if the healer does raise as dps doing the raise is less dps. A healer could put down hot raise before going back to healing.

but im still new to ESO so idk how viable that is.

Gnortranermara · July 2018

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

tbh it would be better if the healer does raise as dps doing the raise is less dps. A healer could put down hot raise before going back to healing.

but im still new to ESO so idk how viable that is.

It depends. The whole "healers should never rez" thing is true, but only for new, inexperienced groups that need constant attention from the healer because the tank can't hold aggro or the DPS can't avoid standing in stupid. Healers can rez just fine in most content (except trials) with endgame players. Just drop HOT's, find a safe spot, and get it done. No biggie. If a group wipes because the healer spent 2 seconds picking someone up, then that group is in way over their heads anyway and needs to go back to easier content.

exeeter702 · July 2018

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

angelncelestine wrote: »

I personally feel it’s very sad that very little content in this game requires a healer in this game anymore. IMO a good healer provides heals/buffs/shards/bubbles. I heal quite often so I pretty much blame the tank ;-) When I dps I pretty much expect the same things I do when I heal. I don’t usually kick anyone from a group unless they are an a hole or really have no clue. This is of course after advice is offered, and they refuse to listen. Fake tanks in harder vet dungeons though gotta go.

I kinda miss the early days of MMO as players were willing to teach other players. Now it seems people "don't have the time" but berate and kick out people who are learning the game, job/class, or content

Yeah that was really a result of forming groups being an endeavor in and of itself (in a good way). You almost cherished your group because you knew it was the group that you had to make work. There was no random matchmaking and most players were bound to a server so reputation mattered. Think back to 11, while there was elitism of course, there was also leaps and bounds more camaraderie because everyone knew the struggle and it served no one to single out and keep others inexperienced. But that is a whole other can of worms on why group finders in general are a large part of toxicity in mmos compared to the days where there was no such tool taken for granted.