What would be a reason you would kick a healer from group?

Tasear · July 2018

What are your personal guildlines for healers? What crosses them? How skilled do you think the average healer is in a group? What is acceptable amount of skill in dungeons? Do you have different requirements from normal to vet?

Thanks in advance for all your guys insights.

WuffyCerulei · July 2018

I'm a bit forgiving to pug healers, so long as they're healing. Ele drain and orbs/shards from pugs is just a bonus. I expect a little more in vet, like actually be more aware of mechanics. Normal dungeons are nothing. Normal trials, the healers just gotta keep the nubs up. Vet trials, I expect a lot more from the healers. Olorime's, worm/sanctuary, warhorn, orbs/shards, ele drain, you name it. But I run with really good healers who do all that and more. I'm really happy to run with them.

Wildberryjack · July 2018

If we keep dying even when doing the mechanics right because the healer is clueless, that would do it.

Tryxus · July 2018

When I'm having such a bad day that I absolutely hate myself, I will gladly kick myself from the group...

Anyways, when it comes to the healer (in vet dungeons), I have only 1 requirement: keep us alive. That's all

Olen_Mikko · July 2018

I main a healer and i've never been kicked. Although i don't pug vets.

I don't nees a healer in normals, pretty much no one does, BYOH.

What i expect healer to do in vets is to keep tank alive (and every people to fullfill their role) and occasionally give me mah shards or mah orbs.

Raraaku · July 2018

I'm usually very patient with Healers, particularly if it's their first run of the dungeon or first time doing veteran/HM content. As long as they're not a fake "healer" who's really just a DPS player with maybe one or two heals slotted who is more focused on burning down the boss than keeping the groupmates alive.

In terms of skill? As long as they can decently help the group recover from a group-wide mechanic or are paying attention to the members of the group/listen to requests such as shards for tank that's good enough for me. All I ask is, from any group mate, is to be open to guidance and respectful communication; if you can do that then I'm happy.

Tasear · July 2018

Olen_Mikko wrote: »

I main a healer and i've never been kicked. Although i don't pug vets.

I don't nees a healer in normals, pretty much no one does, BYOH.

What i expect healer to do in vets is to keep tank alive (and every people to fullfill their role) and occasionally give me mah shards or mah orbs.

Why do you think healers aren't needed in normals?

notyuu · July 2018

what makes me kick healers? simple if they match three of these..then it's a boot
no orbs in vet
dps dying despite doing mechanics right
the tank dying despite doing everything right
screeching about not being protected after aggroing the group with a light attack
refusing to res
refusing to heal the dps
using repentance [you're a healer..wtf do you need that much stamina for?]

NolaArch · July 2018

First, I would never kick you, Tas! ❤️

Second, the only circumstance I would ever choose to kick a player —in any role— is harassment/verbal abuse. Of a group is struggling and I am not able to commit to following through, I suggest they replace me rather than having anyone else leave.

pod88kk · July 2018

No heals or not active

Runefang · July 2018

When they don't run Ele Drain....

Judas Helviaryn · July 2018

I only kick toxic or belligerent people, or people who're bugged and ask to be kicked.

If you're just incompetent, pugging is probably your only opportunity to learn, and I'm not gonna be one of those players who keeps you on the lowest rung just because I can't compensate for having no heals (I can).

Gnortranermara · July 2018

Honestly, pure healers are only needed in vet trials. Every single other piece of content in this game is easier without a pure healer. This is true no matter the skill level of the group: even if the group sucks, they're still better off without a pure healer. I main a DPS/healer (SPC + Infal, 35k+ DPS with Ritual on the ground at all times and Honor the Dead as needed, which is rarely.) I could get up over 40k if I went pure DPS, but I find a DPS/healer hybrid to be far more effective at carrying groups through content. I've gotten two low CP "DPS" (with a combined 10k DPS, maybe) and a Sorc "shield tank" with 11k health (that kept dying, of course) through vet WGT. (Basically solo'd it while they looted backpacks.) I've never been kicked from a group because in good groups I contribute much more DPS than a normal healer (while still healing, as needed) and in bad groups I carry the whole team through. Ever since I started queuing as healer instead of DPS, my runs have been smoother for everyone involved. Healing is a role that's too easy in most content, so hybridizing is a superior playstyle. (Not to mention I'm a combat medic in real life, so DPS/healer is the core of who I am. Might as well play something that fits my personality.)

Even on my alts, including my stam guys with limited self-heals, I never need a healer. No one should, if they know how to mitigate damage. Don't stand in red, don't stack on the tank, obey the mechanics of the fight.

I would be more tempted to kick a pure healer who did nothing but heal than I would to kick a DPS who threw us an off-heal as needed. (I wouldn't actually do it, but I'd consider the pure healer to be useless dead weight.)

A far worse problem is fake tanks. These two problems are so different that they exist on totally different scales. The effect of a bad healer on a group is trivial. Worst case: the content is mildly more difficult. Big whoop. The effect of a bad tank is a total inability to complete content. The tank is the most important team member in any content. Some things simply can't be done without a competent tank. The same can't be said about healers, who just need to show up and push a button sometimes when the health bars get low.

Marabornwingrion · July 2018

For me the most important thing is to restore my magicka. So drain and orbs are necessary. I don't need much heal as magblade, so if healer is not helping me with my sustain then he's useless.

VaranisArano · July 2018

Are they healing and following mechanics? Cool.

If they aren't, and its causing us difficulties enough that we aren't going to complete the dungeon and/or I'm willing to roll the dice on their groupfinder replacement, I'll support the vote kick.

Konstant_Tel_Necris · July 2018

Fake healer in vet DLC best reason.

TheShadowScout · July 2018

I could think of a reason...

Tasear · July 2018

NolaArch wrote: »

First, I would never kick you, Tas! ❤️

Second, the only circumstance I would ever choose to kick a player —in any role— is harassment/verbal abuse. Of a group is struggling and I am not able to commit to following through, I suggest they replace me rather than having anyone else leave.

Better not cause I am healing tonight.

But for anyone wondering was just curious at the demand for skilled healers compared to other 2 roles as I been tanking today and wondering if I work to hard in dungeons > >

idk · July 2018

Speaking of 4 man dungeons

If I die the first person I look at for blame is the most obvious, ME. Unless I am not getting any heals and my health is gradually dropping then it is likely not the healers fault.

As for when I healed and someone died I is often they stood in stupid or did not block. One cannot heal one shots.

Most dungeons are so boring for healing that is best to toss out some dps and keep hots rolling while being ready to send out a burst. Heck, I have completed even DLC dungeons on HM without a healer.

For Vet trials the story is different and they are expected to be able to do more healing, buffing with combat prayer, SPC/Olorime as well as providing shards/orbs. Nott tot mentioned keep the dying to a minimum. After all the support roles are key and often filled with very talented players as a result.

Pretty basic expectations for vet trials these days.

Edit: so the reason I would kick a healer from group would be because they were no doing any healing. Heck, Did not even kick a healer from group because they died on the last boss.

A few times we pugged a healer, did HM (even DLC dungeons) and never bothered to res the healer since they were no needed.

nickl413 · July 2018

As a healer I have been kicked multiple times by squishy dps that run in and die, then boot me without saying a word. My favorite is when a pre-formed group of 3 decide to 3 dps a vet dungeon with one of them choosing "tank" as thier role. Group wipes on a boss and who gets the boot? No, not the fake tank, that would make too much sense.

As for me kicking other healers, only if they are clearly not healing or their heals are too weak. I have seen healers stand there and not cast anything for several seconds, like they don't understand buffs or HoTs, and only cast when someone gets very low. But I still will not kick unless advice is ignored.

Drdeath20 · July 2018

If the healer is constantly dead from their own incompetence and doesnt run 2 out of these 3 skills (rapid regen, ele drain and orbs/shards). If the healer is a problem then most of the time the damage dealers are the problem.

Having 2 excellent damage dealers makes the healers role fairly trivial.

DanteYoda · July 2018

I'm surprised this game doesn't have healing and tank dummies.. Its got Dps dummies that everyone is obsessed with but how do healers and tanks train.. on the spot where all sorts can go wrong..

We need training dummies for all class styles.

Zepiroth · July 2018

When I die

Konstant_Tel_Necris · July 2018

DanteYoda wrote: »

I'm surprised this game doesn't have healing and tank dummies.. Its got Dps dummies that everyone is obsessed with but how do healers and tanks train.. on the spot where all sorts can go wrong..

We need training dummies for all class styles.

You have healing dummies its called random dungeon group.

SydneyGrey · July 2018

notyuu wrote: »

refusing to res

Healers aren't supposed to rez in ESO. One of the DPS is supposed to do that.

Yellow_Monolith · July 2018

For having a battle axe and spamming vigor

Sibenice · July 2018

No healing spells would be a kick from me. Otherwise, as long as they're dropping healing springs or utilizing a class heal I don't care in normal dungeons.

In vet dungeons if I can tell multiple significant wipes are to the healer then I would kick as well.

Nightfall12 · July 2018

You know that Giant that guards the door to The Blessed Crucible...?

He kicked me in the face once.....cuz we had a FAKE tank that had no taunt and couldnt hold aggro!

adeptusminor · July 2018

If I get 1 shot with 15.1k health, I ALWAYS will blame the healer

AcadianPaladin · July 2018

I main a healer so not really sure what would cause a kick. I can't imagine kicking a healer though because then there would be no one to blame when someone dies with a hearty, "It's the healer's fault!"

A couple more serious thoughts though -

- @Tasear - good thread and always nice to hear thoughts of those who we try to heal for.

- Regarding a healing dummy, I don't think that would be of much benefit. While I have the utmost respect at the muscle memory involved in executing a precisely timed dps rotation, so much of healing is reactive to not only what the boss and foes are doing but perhaps even moreso to what allies are doing. I found the best healer training grounds before feeling ready to hang out your healing shingle for group duty to be world bosses and dolmens. Practice your craft and reacting to things until comfortable enough to take responsibility for a group counting on your heals. Then maybe heal normals with friends to get feedback. Then pug normals to work on reacting to the unexpected.

- As a healer, my elf is all about trying to help ensure the group's success. As such, she slots a bit more damage and tankiness when healing normal pugs. Dropping Combat Prayer from my bar for a normal pug is no problem because their dps +8% is still low and allows the healer to slot in something (like Reflective Light) to do more dps herself. Similarly, if the tank turns out to be a fake, having Sweeps + Channeled Focus slotted means my healer can face tank a normal boss all day long if necessary so the dps can plink away. Keeping EleDrain, Shards, Blockade, Extended Ritual, Mutagen/Rapid Regen, Healing Springs and BoL slotted is plenty of heal/buff/debuff support for normal pugs. Though my healer is a rather classic CP 750 healplar, she quite enjoys normal pugs since they are quite fun and unpredictable.

DanteYoda · July 2018

Konstant_Tel_Necris wrote: »

DanteYoda wrote: »

I'm surprised this game doesn't have healing and tank dummies.. Its got Dps dummies that everyone is obsessed with but how do healers and tanks train.. on the spot where all sorts can go wrong..

We need training dummies for all class styles.

You have healing dummies its called random dungeon group.

Hence on the spot training, I know Secret world had gating to do hardcore dungeons etc (which was really hard to pass) but at least it gave customers an idea what to expect, This game gives very little training to new customers.