Character Progression Rewards - Complaint

Jazdia · July 2018

Hi All.

I'm unsure if this is mentioned elsewhere and if it is I apologise.

Anyway, got another character to level 40 yesterday and received my 'significant rewards'. Among them an Instant Research Scroll. Was quite excited as my crafter (not this character I'm levelling) is currently finishing off the Nirnhoned level of traits. The excitement didn't last long...

To my disgust the scroll is character bound! Excuse me? What's the point of that? If it was bound, fine, as I could put it in the bank and have my crafter use it (which is what I was planning to do). Unfortunately, it can't be banked, so it's going to be trashed. A shame for a 'significant reward'.

@ZOS_GinaBruno what is the point of that please? AND can it be amended/changed?

Most people have one to three crafters depending on how they've divided (or if they've divided) up their crafting skill lines. As this character progression is still fairly new, it's only really going to benefit new crafters (which I don't have a problem with) but what about those that are still trying to complete learning all the traits?

Don't worry, I know about the research scrolls you can purchase for in game gold/writs or the crown store instant research scrolls. It was just a nice little bonus I wasn't expecting that now can't be used (and I know not everyone will agree with me, but I still find it an odd choice to be character rather than account bound).

Thanks for letting me vent.

VaranisArano · July 2018

The point of character bound rewards is so that players have to use them on their leveling characters, as opposed to leveling a character, passing off the reward to a different character, deleting and restarting the new character to farm the system for rewards. That's exactly what bots would do, given the chance,

Jazdia · July 2018

Hi, that's perfectly understandable and I'm against botting.

However, in regards to specific skill items eg the research scrolls, what's the harm in transferring it over to your crafter? It's a one off scroll, you're not going to get any further ahead by deleting and creating a new character.

We also get account wide rewards eg the horse and the prisoner outfit. Yes, both are cosmetic items but are also 'significant rewards'.

I understand that the reward levelling system is primarily about that one character and to assist that character to level. However, in regards to multi use items like research scrolls, potions etc if you don't want to use them on that character where's the harm in allowing another account character to use them rather than trashing them?

Thought has gone into the rewards system. It just seems a bit of a shame to trash stuff because we're unable to use it instead of making a way to use it to the benefit of the user.

ADarklore · July 2018

As @VaranisArano mentioned above, there are a lot of potential ways this can be misused... which is also why you have to wait 24/hrs before you can delete characters after your third delete.

Taleof2Cities · July 2018

ADarklore wrote: »

As @VaranisArano mentioned above, there are a lot of potential ways this can be misused... which is also why you have to wait 24/hrs before you can delete characters after your third delete.

^This.^

max_only · July 2018

How will a bot take advantage of the research scroll? Wouldn’t the bot have to be doing research? Which requires a human driven decision to go to the crafting stations and researching 3 traits on 6 skills after spending 3 skill points for that purpose. The op’s point is that a few leveling rewards were account bound, maybe this one scroll could be too.

newtinmpls · July 2018

Jazdia wrote: »

Hi, that's perfectly understandable and I'm against botting.

However, in regards to specific skill items eg the research scrolls, what's the harm in transferring it over to your crafter? It's a one off scroll, you're not going to get any further ahead by deleting and creating a new character.

In order to understand the issue in your second paragraph, re-read the first one again.

phairdon · July 2018

Yes, the research scrolls should be account bound. Now have two of them and they are of no use to me, whatsoever.

Lysette · July 2018

phairdon wrote: »

Yes, the research scrolls should be account bound. Now have two of them and they are of no use to me, whatsoever.

Then again, it is a additional gift - before there were those rewards, we got nothing at all. Or think of costumes as rewards, which we already have, there is no replacement for it as well. If your character can't use it, well, tough luck then. What about making him a crafter as well, it is not hard, if you have already other crafters.

max_only · July 2018

Lysette wrote: »

phairdon wrote: »

Yes, the research scrolls should be account bound. Now have two of them and they are of no use to me, whatsoever.

Then again, it is a additional gift - before there were those rewards, we got nothing at all. Or think of costumes as rewards, which we already have, there is no replacement for it as well. If your character can't use it, well, tough luck then. What about making him a crafter as well, it is not hard, if you have already other crafters.

Motifs are too expensive and some of them were limited time. You can only learn motifs on one character. (Especially cash shop motifs like Frostcaster and Grim Harlequin). How does it make sense to have another crafter with redundant knowledge (and in the case of cash shop motifs, incomplete knowledge)?

Taleof2Cities · July 2018

max_only wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

phairdon wrote: »

Yes, the research scrolls should be account bound. Now have two of them and they are of no use to me, whatsoever.

Then again, it is a additional gift - before there were those rewards, we got nothing at all. Or think of costumes as rewards, which we already have, there is no replacement for it as well. If your character can't use it, well, tough luck then. What about making him a crafter as well, it is not hard, if you have already other crafters.

Motifs are too expensive and some of them were limited time. You can only learn motifs on one character. (Especially cash shop motifs like Frostcaster and Grim Harlequin). How does it make sense to have another crafter with redundant knowledge (and in the case of cash shop motifs, incomplete knowledge)?

Unless I’m mistaken, motif knowledge on other characters improves the modifier for master writ drops on said characters.

Motif knowledge isn’t account-wide for master writ drops ... nor can characters use account-wide knowledge to simply craft gear (if they don’t know the motif styles).

max_only · July 2018

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

phairdon wrote: »

Yes, the research scrolls should be account bound. Now have two of them and they are of no use to me, whatsoever.

Then again, it is a additional gift - before there were those rewards, we got nothing at all. Or think of costumes as rewards, which we already have, there is no replacement for it as well. If your character can't use it, well, tough luck then. What about making him a crafter as well, it is not hard, if you have already other crafters.

Motifs are too expensive and some of them were limited time. You can only learn motifs on one character. (Especially cash shop motifs like Frostcaster and Grim Harlequin). How does it make sense to have another crafter with redundant knowledge (and in the case of cash shop motifs, incomplete knowledge)?

Unless I’m mistaken, motif knowledge on other characters improves the modifier for master writ drops on said characters.

Motif knowledge isn’t account-wide for master writ drops ... nor can characters use account-wide knowledge to simply craft gear (if they don’t know the motif styles).

So they say. I only have anecdotal evidence of threads on this forum from when Writs came out that dispute that. Also when writs first came out they couldn’t be banked, all the more reason to have just one crafter. Now things are better. Even with those changes why would I restart research from scratch on a brand new character and not just complete my research on the other characters that were almost done? I’m sure there’s a circular answer for that but it doesn’t matter. The point is, a few level up rewards were account bound, why not this one as well? How will this scroll be misused?

DanteYoda · July 2018

Yes its another way to limit customer to buying crown store instead..

VaranisArano · July 2018

max_only wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

phairdon wrote: »

Yes, the research scrolls should be account bound. Now have two of them and they are of no use to me, whatsoever.

Then again, it is a additional gift - before there were those rewards, we got nothing at all. Or think of costumes as rewards, which we already have, there is no replacement for it as well. If your character can't use it, well, tough luck then. What about making him a crafter as well, it is not hard, if you have already other crafters.

Motifs are too expensive and some of them were limited time. You can only learn motifs on one character. (Especially cash shop motifs like Frostcaster and Grim Harlequin). How does it make sense to have another crafter with redundant knowledge (and in the case of cash shop motifs, incomplete knowledge)?

It makes sense to have one crafter character.

However, it also makes sense to make the research scroll leveling reward bound to the character you are actually leveling, rather than allowing players to funnel those scrolls to their main crafter. Sure, that new character might get to research maybe one or two items with it and never get used again. But it keeps the leveling rewards on the character they are intended for rather than letting you plunder your lower level to pass rewards to your higher level crafters.

starkerealm · July 2018

max_only wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

phairdon wrote: »

Yes, the research scrolls should be account bound. Now have two of them and they are of no use to me, whatsoever.

Then again, it is a additional gift - before there were those rewards, we got nothing at all. Or think of costumes as rewards, which we already have, there is no replacement for it as well. If your character can't use it, well, tough luck then. What about making him a crafter as well, it is not hard, if you have already other crafters.

Motifs are too expensive and some of them were limited time. You can only learn motifs on one character. (Especially cash shop motifs like Frostcaster and Grim Harlequin). How does it make sense to have another crafter with redundant knowledge (and in the case of cash shop motifs, incomplete knowledge)?

Unless I’m mistaken, motif knowledge on other characters improves the modifier for master writ drops on said characters.

Motif knowledge isn’t account-wide for master writ drops ... nor can characters use account-wide knowledge to simply craft gear (if they don’t know the motif styles).

So they say. I only have anecdotal evidence of threads on this forum from when Writs came out that dispute that. Also when writs first came out they couldn’t be banked, all the more reason to have just one crafter. Now things are better. Even with those changes why would I restart research from scratch on a brand new character and not just complete my research on the other characters that were almost done? I’m sure there’s a circular answer for that but it doesn’t matter. The point is, a few level up rewards were account bound, why not this one as well? How will this scroll be misused?

Writs could always be banked. Vouchers couldn't be.

starkerealm · July 2018

Jazdia wrote: »

However, in regards to specific skill items eg the research scrolls, what's the harm in transferring it over to your crafter? It's a one off scroll, you're not going to get any further ahead by deleting and creating a new character.

You delete the character and roll another. As I recall, every character gets the research all scroll when they hit that level, so it would encourage players to grind a character to level cap (which can take a couple hours), then shuffle all the rewards off and do it again.

max_only · July 2018

starkerealm wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

phairdon wrote: »

Yes, the research scrolls should be account bound. Now have two of them and they are of no use to me, whatsoever.

Then again, it is a additional gift - before there were those rewards, we got nothing at all. Or think of costumes as rewards, which we already have, there is no replacement for it as well. If your character can't use it, well, tough luck then. What about making him a crafter as well, it is not hard, if you have already other crafters.

Motifs are too expensive and some of them were limited time. You can only learn motifs on one character. (Especially cash shop motifs like Frostcaster and Grim Harlequin). How does it make sense to have another crafter with redundant knowledge (and in the case of cash shop motifs, incomplete knowledge)?

Unless I’m mistaken, motif knowledge on other characters improves the modifier for master writ drops on said characters.

Motif knowledge isn’t account-wide for master writ drops ... nor can characters use account-wide knowledge to simply craft gear (if they don’t know the motif styles).

So they say. I only have anecdotal evidence of threads on this forum from when Writs came out that dispute that. Also when writs first came out they couldn’t be banked, all the more reason to have just one crafter. Now things are better. Even with those changes why would I restart research from scratch on a brand new character and not just complete my research on the other characters that were almost done? I’m sure there’s a circular answer for that but it doesn’t matter. The point is, a few level up rewards were account bound, why not this one as well? How will this scroll be misused?

Writs could always be banked. Vouchers couldn't be.

My bad, you’re right. Vouchers.

starkerealm wrote: »

Jazdia wrote: »

However, in regards to specific skill items eg the research scrolls, what's the harm in transferring it over to your crafter? It's a one off scroll, you're not going to get any further ahead by deleting and creating a new character.

You delete the character and roll another. As I recall, every character gets the research all scroll when they hit that level, so it would encourage players to grind a character to level cap (which can take a couple hours), then shuffle all the rewards off and do it again.

Then these people are playing the game. They aren’t bots.

I take my high level and farm a dungeon and hand it off to my baby. Or I run BGs on my baby and open the pvp reward on my main (the armor therein become max level even if they were won with a baby).

This is called playing a game. Bots ruin the game, they aren’t playing it. What is the detriment to making these Scrolls account bound?

Slick_007 · July 2018

someone totally missed the point of this reward system

starkerealm · July 2018

max_only wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Jazdia wrote: »

However, in regards to specific skill items eg the research scrolls, what's the harm in transferring it over to your crafter? It's a one off scroll, you're not going to get any further ahead by deleting and creating a new character.

You delete the character and roll another. As I recall, every character gets the research all scroll when they hit that level, so it would encourage players to grind a character to level cap (which can take a couple hours), then shuffle all the rewards off and do it again.

Then these people are playing the game. They aren’t bots.

I take my high level and farm a dungeon and hand it off to my baby. Or I run BGs on my baby and open the pvp reward on my main (the armor therein become max level even if they were won with a baby).

This is called playing a game. Bots ruin the game, they aren’t playing it. What is the detriment to making these Scrolls account bound?

You are, however, cheesing your way to get "free" crown store consumables. Which kinda defeats the purpose of actually buying them.

max_only · July 2018

starkerealm wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Jazdia wrote: »

However, in regards to specific skill items eg the research scrolls, what's the harm in transferring it over to your crafter? It's a one off scroll, you're not going to get any further ahead by deleting and creating a new character.

You delete the character and roll another. As I recall, every character gets the research all scroll when they hit that level, so it would encourage players to grind a character to level cap (which can take a couple hours), then shuffle all the rewards off and do it again.

Then these people are playing the game. They aren’t bots.

I take my high level and farm a dungeon and hand it off to my baby. Or I run BGs on my baby and open the pvp reward on my main (the armor therein become max level even if they were won with a baby).

This is called playing a game. Bots ruin the game, they aren’t playing it. What is the detriment to making these Scrolls account bound?

You are, however, cheesing your way to get "free" crown store consumables. Which kinda defeats the purpose of actually buying them.

I hope you meant that hypothetically because it looks like an accusation... I’m not cheesing the crown store, I subscribe and buy crowns on top and preorder collectors editions.

VaranisArano · July 2018

max_only wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Jazdia wrote: »

However, in regards to specific skill items eg the research scrolls, what's the harm in transferring it over to your crafter? It's a one off scroll, you're not going to get any further ahead by deleting and creating a new character.

You delete the character and roll another. As I recall, every character gets the research all scroll when they hit that level, so it would encourage players to grind a character to level cap (which can take a couple hours), then shuffle all the rewards off and do it again.

Then these people are playing the game. They aren’t bots.

I take my high level and farm a dungeon and hand it off to my baby. Or I run BGs on my baby and open the pvp reward on my main (the armor therein become max level even if they were won with a baby).

This is called playing a game. Bots ruin the game, they aren’t playing it. What is the detriment to making these Scrolls account bound?

You are, however, cheesing your way to get "free" crown store consumables. Which kinda defeats the purpose of actually buying them.

I hope you meant that hypothetically because it looks like an accusation... I’m not cheesing the crown store, I subscribe and buy crowns on top and preorder collectors editions.

Making a new character, passing the leveling rewards to a main character, deleting the new one, making another one, rinse repeat would be cheesing your way to getting "free" crown store consumables.

ZOS designed the rewards to be character bound precisely to prevent that inevitable result. Since you wanted to know the detriment of making scrolls account bound, doing so would allow you and others to cheese your way to getting "free" crown store consumables like the research scroll by farming 1 or more research scrolls from your new leveling characters. If you only want to do it the once, it might not seem so bad, but ZOS has to consider the impact of players doing it once, twice, 15 times, or the inevitable bots.

If you want the research scrolls on your main crafter, ZOS intends for you to buy them from the crown store, not feed your main characters scrolls from your leveling characters.

essi2 · July 2018

It is character bound to prevent you from farming research and respec scrolls.

weedgenius · July 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Jazdia wrote: »

However, in regards to specific skill items eg the research scrolls, what's the harm in transferring it over to your crafter? It's a one off scroll, you're not going to get any further ahead by deleting and creating a new character.

You delete the character and roll another. As I recall, every character gets the research all scroll when they hit that level, so it would encourage players to grind a character to level cap (which can take a couple hours), then shuffle all the rewards off and do it again.

Then these people are playing the game. They aren’t bots.

I take my high level and farm a dungeon and hand it off to my baby. Or I run BGs on my baby and open the pvp reward on my main (the armor therein become max level even if they were won with a baby).

This is called playing a game. Bots ruin the game, they aren’t playing it. What is the detriment to making these Scrolls account bound?

You are, however, cheesing your way to get "free" crown store consumables. Which kinda defeats the purpose of actually buying them.

I hope you meant that hypothetically because it looks like an accusation... I’m not cheesing the crown store, I subscribe and buy crowns on top and preorder collectors editions.

If you want the research scrolls on your main crafter, ZOS intends for you to buy them from the crown store, not feed your main characters scrolls from your leveling characters.

That's definitely the answer.