Disguising Vampirism - It's time

White wabbit · July 2018

This is how it see it go !
The hide vampirism camp get their toggle just as ZOS nerf vampire passives

OmniDo · July 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

1. You don't understand what min-maxing is

Yes I do. And I do it myself. That doesnt change the fact that its not a requirement. Try again.

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

2. Business opportunities are worth considering because , you know, ZOS is a business

It has already been considered, and has not changed. It will likely not change unless the internal revenue numbers (which Z0$ will never share) prove it to be worthwhile.

idk · July 2018

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

The anti hide vamparism crowd...

I'll never understand them.

It's just being belligerant and obtuse for it's own sake.

It is merely a means to try to moot those that have differing opinions. It is the case anytime someone tries to put down those with differing opinions just because they have differing opinions, such as calling them belligerent and such.

I dont say people are belligerent for the sake of it, or to put down people who have that opinion. I say it because alot of the behavior I've seen in this thread (and others) by people who want vampirism to be unhidable has almost allways been predicated on 'why do you need it noob' or just plain "STFU" with no other reason given. They just seem to be looking for a fight.

You yourself go 'why do you need it there's ways to hide it allready'. Well if there's ways to hide it allready a toggle wouldn't take too much dev time and wouldn't impede those who like the look. Yet I have a feeling you'll sit here and argue that point until the stars die.

That's not me puting you down for having an alternate opinion, that is a reasonable assumption based on your behavior up until this point. Please dont play the victim, it insults both of our collective intelligence.

Personally, a toggle for vampirism would take as much time as a toggle for the option to hide other players flashy animations, and people were opposed to that too, because they like to argue. It's just a trend with this forum.

Great points all around.

As you mentioned, I have stated that vampirism can already hidden yet others want it hidden differently.

See, some people will never be happy and we see this because some create thread constantly complain about X and wanting things to be like ABC. We see this constantly in these forums and others. I often wonder how they have enough time to play the game, but it is clear that they will never be happy with how the game plays since they constantly find things they do not like.

Further, I do not think we should be able to hide vampirism by any means for any reason and think it is irrelevant if someone does not like the look, but Zos gave up on their original stated intent of the game concerning this and made things like that hidable.

But it is very inappropriate to belittle those who do not agree merely because they do not agree as though that really matters. Heck, some have even started a thread belittling those with opposing opinions before anyone has a chance to post

AbysmalGhul · July 2018

Just throw on one of the many skins you can earn in game. There's quite a few to choose from and most of them look pretty good. Or here's an idea, just throw on a recovery glyph on a ring or neck piece if you want to maintain your looks.

Gandrhulf_Harbard · July 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Gameplay buffs should have gameplay drawbacks.

They do, that's why Vamps are ugly.

All The Best

Visual appearance is not part of gameplay

Try again.

Of course it is.

Just because you can only gain enjoyment from the game if you mini-max the meta, doesn't mean everyone else feels the same.

Mini-maxing the meta and then crying because you look ugly is a CHOICE you make.

How a character looks is an essential part of that character for me - I've retired/deleted end-game toons in numerous games just because I couldn't get them to look how I wanted. That is a CHOICE I make.

Just like I main a Templar who will never use Jesus Beam or Puncturing Sweeps (they look bloody silly, like they belong in a cartoon). And despite the alleged disadvantage that puts me at my non-meta build in non-meta gear still managed to top the DPS AND Heal charts for the guild I was in.

Think for yourself, outside the meta, and enjoy the game on your on terms, not someone else's.

All The Best

MLGProPlayer · July 2018

AbysmalGhul wrote: »

Just throw on one of the many skins you can earn in game. There's quite a few to choose from and most of them look pretty good. Or here's an idea, just throw on a recovery glyph on a ring or neck piece if you want to maintain your looks.

Most skins are ugly and cover up the character you spent hours creating (just like vampirism). The only decent looking one is the Scalecaller one, but even that lightens your skin tone.

And putting on a recovery glyph results in a DPS loss. Again, vampirism is mandatory for min-maxing.

idk · July 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

AbysmalGhul wrote: »

Just throw on one of the many skins you can earn in game. There's quite a few to choose from and most of them look pretty good. Or here's an idea, just throw on a recovery glyph on a ring or neck piece if you want to maintain your looks.

Most skins are ugly and cover up the character you spent hours creating (just like vampirism). The only decent looking one is the Scalecaller one, but even that lightens your skin tone.

And putting on a recovery glyph results in a DPS loss. Again, vampirism is mandatory for min-maxing.

I would like to see where vampirism is mandatory. It is a choice.

I guarantee the best raid teams do not require vampirism. Most of us have a lot of space before vampirism will begin to make the small difference it can make.

Edit: top raiders that are not vampires do not use a recovery glyph.

kargen27 · July 2018

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Ri_Khan wrote: »

All I ever hear from this argument is that you all want the benefits but don't want to suffer all the consequences. The cosmetic disfigurement is a part of the package. If it bothers you so much, don't be a vampire. Nobody's forcing you to play that role.

The game does force you to play that role though. Vampirism is overpowered and is necessary for any meta game build. There is a reason why almost every endgame player in the game is a vampire. Hint: It's not because they all want to roleplay as vampires.

I hate how Vampires look, so I'm not one. Simples.

That it may add a few percent to my and game viability is not even a consideration, I don't want to look like a corpse, so I am not going to.

This is as MMO Role Play Game.

Not an MMO Roll Play Game.

Time some of you learned the difference.

Also time a lot of you learned that choices have consequences.

Stop being snowflakes.

All The Best

So following that logic we need to get rid of costumes and skins. You choose to wear an ugly monster set then you should suffer the consequences and have those ugly pieces show to the rest of the world. You want people to see your characters face or tattoos don't equip armor.

kargen27 · July 2018

Odnoc wrote: »

Sure, let's hide werewolves too.

I'm guessing if you asked the players with werewolves most of them would given the option rather look like a werewolf all the time than never look like a werewolf. The few exceptions would be the ones that think it would provide a benefit in PvP. Then again seeing a Redguard bounding around on his hands and feet would be a give-away and would also look a bit silly. Nope I'm guessing werewolves want to keep their form, not hide it. If some do what to hide then more power to them.

AbysmalGhul · July 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

AbysmalGhul wrote: »

Just throw on one of the many skins you can earn in game. There's quite a few to choose from and most of them look pretty good. Or here's an idea, just throw on a recovery glyph on a ring or neck piece if you want to maintain your looks.

Most skins are ugly and cover up the character you spent hours creating (just like vampirism). The only decent looking one is the Scalecaller one, but even that lightens your skin tone.

And putting on a recovery glyph results in a DPS loss. Again, vampirism is mandatory for min-maxing.

It's really not that big of a loss to include 1 recovery glyph; it won't even be noticeable. I never agreed or disagreed that vampirism wasn't mandatory for min/max. The skin thing is a personal preference. I actually like them and build them around my character's looks. The Amber plasm looks really good on dark-skinned Dark Elves. Plus you can make a real creeper with the Falkreath skin.

Gandrhulf_Harbard · July 2018

kargen27 wrote: »

So following that logic we need to get rid of costumes and skins. You choose to wear an ugly monster set then you should suffer the consequences and have those ugly pieces show to the rest of the world. You want people to see your characters face or tattoos don't equip armor.

IIRC Costumes and Skins have been in since day one. It makes no sense to take them out just to assuage the petulant children that don't like how their Vampire looks.

Speaking of things that have been in since day one - Ugly Vampires.

Now, if they had made Vampires uglier over the years I'd agree with you about a hide/toggle for the cosmentic effect.

But EVERY ONE who is playing a Vampire KNEW they would get ugly BEFORE they became one; so there's no justification at all for all this dolly-throwing and hair-pulling.

You made a choice, man up and accept that consequences of that choice.

It's called being a grown up, and it is a very, very valuable and essential life-lesson.

All The Best

MLGProPlayer · July 2018

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

So following that logic we need to get rid of costumes and skins. You choose to wear an ugly monster set then you should suffer the consequences and have those ugly pieces show to the rest of the world. You want people to see your characters face or tattoos don't equip armor.

IIRC Costumes and Skins have been in since day one. It makes no sense to take them out just to assuage the petulant children that don't like how their Vampire looks.

Speaking of things that have been in since day one - Ugly Vampires.

Now, if they had made Vampires uglier over the years I'd agree with you about a hide/toggle for the cosmentic effect.

But EVERY ONE who is playing a Vampire KNEW they would get ugly BEFORE they became one; so there's no justification at all for all this dolly-throwing and hair-pulling.

You made a choice, man up and accept that consequences of that choice.

It's called being a grown up, and it is a very, very valuable and essential life-lesson.

All The Best

The choice is made for you if you min-max. You have to be a vampire if you want to have the strongest character possible. That doesn't sound like much of a choice to me.

Gandrhulf_Harbard · July 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

The choice is made for you if you min-max.

No one FORCES you to min-max.

It is a CHOICE.

So man up and accept that consequences of that choice.

It's called being a grown up, and it is a very, very valuable and essential life-lesson.

And mini-maxing is so lame, something socially insecure people do because it is "so just not fair" if they can't come first all the time, every time.

All The Best

MLGProPlayer · July 2018

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

The choice is made for you if you min-max.

No one FORCES you to min-max.

It is a CHOICE.

So man up and accept that consequences of that choice.

It's called being a grown up, and it is a very, very valuable and essential life-lesson.

And mini-maxing is so lame, something socially insecure people do because it is "so just not fair" if they can't come first all the time, every time.

All The Best

So you're salty at min-maxers. I was trying to figure out why you so irrationally argue against a hide vampirism option which doesn't affect you in any way.

It always comes back to pettiness.

Gandrhulf_Harbard · July 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

So you're salty at min-maxers. I was trying to figure out why you so irrationally argue against a hide vampirism option which doesn't affect you in any way.

It always comes back to pettiness.

I'm salty about one thing.

People who make free choices and then whine they have to live with the consequences of such choices.

It's a point of principle, so whether or not if affects me is irrelevant.

All The Best

Salvas_Aren · July 2018

Uhmm, we demand a product Zeni can provide, we want to pay money for it?

Now YOU tell us that Zeni MUST NOT provide it and earn some coin because we are whiny kids? C'mon, that's cheap.

You make me believe that you are RL-anti-everything, and RL PC forces you to mess with digital vampires because you cannot bash against gays, communists, immigrants aso any longer.

Since all sorts of skins and polymorphs already exist, this is so cheap. As you can clearly see, we DO NOT have to live with the consequences of looking like semi-undead bloodsuckers at all.

I'll get the necromancer skin for me and you can be fine with that or get a stroke when you see my beautiful vampires.

Doctordarkspawn · July 2018

idk wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

The anti hide vamparism crowd...

I'll never understand them.

It's just being belligerant and obtuse for it's own sake.

It is merely a means to try to moot those that have differing opinions. It is the case anytime someone tries to put down those with differing opinions just because they have differing opinions, such as calling them belligerent and such.

I dont say people are belligerent for the sake of it, or to put down people who have that opinion. I say it because alot of the behavior I've seen in this thread (and others) by people who want vampirism to be unhidable has almost allways been predicated on 'why do you need it noob' or just plain "STFU" with no other reason given. They just seem to be looking for a fight.

You yourself go 'why do you need it there's ways to hide it allready'. Well if there's ways to hide it allready a toggle wouldn't take too much dev time and wouldn't impede those who like the look. Yet I have a feeling you'll sit here and argue that point until the stars die.

That's not me puting you down for having an alternate opinion, that is a reasonable assumption based on your behavior up until this point. Please dont play the victim, it insults both of our collective intelligence.

Personally, a toggle for vampirism would take as much time as a toggle for the option to hide other players flashy animations, and people were opposed to that too, because they like to argue. It's just a trend with this forum.

Great points all around.

As you mentioned, I have stated that vampirism can already hidden yet others want it hidden differently.

See, some people will never be happy and we see this because some create thread constantly complain about X and wanting things to be like ABC. We see this constantly in these forums and others. I often wonder how they have enough time to play the game, but it is clear that they will never be happy with how the game plays since they constantly find things they do not like.

Further, I do not think we should be able to hide vampirism by any means for any reason and think it is irrelevant if someone does not like the look, but Zos gave up on their original stated intent of the game concerning this and made things like that hidable.

But it is very inappropriate to belittle those who do not agree merely because they do not agree as though that really matters. Heck, some have even started a thread belittling those with opposing opinions before anyone has a chance to post

@idk

You obviously didn't see the edit so I'll ask you again. Using disguises to hide vampirism could be considered an exploit. Are you trying to get people banned, if ZOS decides they'd consider it such?

And yes, some people will never be happy. This isn't one of them. There are people who want functionality and a normalization of what we can allready do, and there are people like you who just want to kneecap others. If you really think it's a 'principle' thing, let me ask you who died and made you mother nature and mother superior over something that is so small and petty? Let it -go-.

Again, not belittling. That's the only conclusion I can come to based on, it's the only thought process that makes logical sense. It's allready possible, it does not effect you, and it's not big enough to really effect anyone. If you were talking about something bigger, and wider reaching, the whole 'people taking responsibility' thing might hold some weight, but this does not.

Also, as far as 'people who will never be happy'. Their imput is valid even if I disagree with it. This does not mean we should bar them from speaking.

Doctordarkspawn · July 2018

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

So you're salty at min-maxers. I was trying to figure out why you so irrationally argue against a hide vampirism option which doesn't affect you in any way.

It always comes back to pettiness.

I'm salty about one thing.

People who make free choices and then whine they have to live with the consequences of such choices.

It's a point of principle, so whether or not if affects me is irrelevant.

All The Best

Lore reasons. Gameplay reasons. Functionality allready in the game.

Your arguement is invalid and your principle is 'people should have nice things because I say so'. Who died and made you mother nature and mother superior?

Salvas_Aren · July 2018

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Lore reasons. Gameplay reasons. Functionality allready in the game.

Your arguement is invalid and your principle is 'people should have nice things because I say so'. Who died and made you mother nature and mother superior?

Something makes me believe that in these cases sanity dies first.

It's a classic argumentation ad absurdum, if the condition is absurd, the value of the result is true anyway.

Doctordarkspawn · July 2018

Salvas_Aren wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Lore reasons. Gameplay reasons. Functionality allready in the game.

Your arguement is invalid and your principle is 'people should have nice things because I say so'. Who died and made you mother nature and mother superior?

Something makes me believe that in these cases sanity dies first.

It's a classic argumentation ad absurdum, if the condition is absurd, the value of the result is true anyway.

Seriously.

Put up a hide vampirism option for about 5000 crowns and I'd buy it. It'd be free money. ZOS would rake it in. They would get enough money to possibly start an entirely new game. I swear.

Salvas_Aren · July 2018

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Salvas_Aren wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Lore reasons. Gameplay reasons. Functionality allready in the game.

Your arguement is invalid and your principle is 'people should have nice things because I say so'. Who died and made you mother nature and mother superior?

Something makes me believe that in these cases sanity dies first.

It's a classic argumentation ad absurdum, if the condition is absurd, the value of the result is true anyway.

Seriously.

Put up a hide vampirism option for about 5000 crowns and I'd buy it. It'd be free money. ZOS would rake it in.

5000 crown for a skin only is tough, but as I said, throw in an armour, a robe and a personality, and I'm in for sure. Free money for the game all the haters like to play. A friend of mine came up with the idea of a vampire follower and a mount, that would really add some more value.

Doctordarkspawn · July 2018

Salvas_Aren wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Salvas_Aren wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Lore reasons. Gameplay reasons. Functionality allready in the game.

Your arguement is invalid and your principle is 'people should have nice things because I say so'. Who died and made you mother nature and mother superior?

Something makes me believe that in these cases sanity dies first.

It's a classic argumentation ad absurdum, if the condition is absurd, the value of the result is true anyway.

Seriously.

Put up a hide vampirism option for about 5000 crowns and I'd buy it. It'd be free money. ZOS would rake it in.

5000 crown for a skin only is tough, but as I said, throw in an armour, a robe and a personality, and I'm in for sure. Free money for the game all the haters like to play.

Knowing ZOS it'd be 5000. But hey, I wouldn't turn down like a full package.

Salvas_Aren · July 2018

Tbh it would not even be as insane as any alliance, any race, for 1900 crowns.

Basically players pay 1900 crowns for one line of code there.

Morgul667 · July 2018

They’re jealous cause they know we would look better than them if we didnt have the ugly vampire look

I mean their arguments are as bad as this one anyway

Didaco · July 2018

Chrysa1is wrote: »

what is the reason you want to hide it my friend?

i dont think you can ask to hide vampirism when you made the choice to be a vampire. the simple solution is to either use a skin or wear armour that covers you, i know thats not what you want but it doesnt make sense to hide vampirism, again, because you made the choice.

It's comfortable to just chime in and express your trolly comments or just outright hate against vampire (god only knows why) and then bail out without engaging in a serious discussion about a painpoint brought up by so many players, right?
Can we stop for a second giving the same answer over and over, purposedly ignoring all the legit points that are being thrown at you no-hide dawnguard guys and please offer a valid answer to these questions?

-Why is it ok for you to have a disguise that hides vampirism, giving you different clothes in the process BUT it's absolutely out of discussion to have something that only hides your pale skin?

-Why are you ignoring the fact that lore wise, in Tamriel, Illusion Magic is a thing and it is used to altrer your appearance, turn you invisible, make yourself more attractive to others etc.?
Illusion magic is the main lore reason that lets most skins to be sold in the crown store, or exist in this game at all. And Vampires are masters at Illusion magic.

-Why do you ignore the fact that NPCs themselves can hide their vampirism to others (Count Verandis)?

-What kind of friggin excuse is "if you want power you have to look ugly"? What differences does being ugly bring gameplay wise?
Because vampirism already comes with impactful weaknesses (more fire damage, more damage from FG skills, in a game where DB is being spammed by every stamina spec, since its BiS) and being ugly does not provide anything if not ruining player's experiences.

-Why do you make use of the Outfit system?
Hiding your axes is much more profitable than just hiding your pale, veiny skin. You made the choice to have an Axe, you should stick with it, letting others know to prepare their purges.
By the same logic, enjoy your ***-shaped vMA staff and drop that cool Ebonshadow appearance... You made the choice.

@Chrysa1is the post is not directed at you personally. I just picked your post cause I wanted to answer yours while giving my contribute to the matter, nothing personal.

@Eeri_Ravencaw Noxiphilic Sanguivoria =/= Porphyric Hemofilia

Gandrhulf_Harbard · July 2018

Salvas_Aren wrote: »

You make me believe that you are RL-anti-everything, and RL PC forces you to mess with digital vampires because you cannot bash against gays, communists, immigrants aso any longer.

Well I have no interest in bashing members of those groups, or any other groups.

However, if I CHOSE to bash against them there's not a damn thing anyone can do to stop me AS LONG AS I am prepared to live with the CONSEQUENCES of such a CHOICE.

How I am here is HOW I AM. I 100% believe in a) freedom of choice, and b) living with the consequences of those choices.

And if you CHOOSE to do something knowing BEFOREHAND it has consequences then you have no reasonable grounds to complain about those consequences once you've made that CHOICE.

If Vampirism was something that could just happen to you without your consent than I'd agree entirely with OP's sentiments. But it isn't, so I don't.

All The Best

Gandrhulf_Harbard · July 2018

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Your arguement is invalid and your principle is 'people should have nice things because I say so'.

Oh please, the very fact you have to get all antsy and start with the "who made you god" hysterics tells me that a) my argument is VERY valid, and b) you have no intelligent rebuttal for it.

My principle is this: If you make an informed choice, be grown up enough to accept the consequences of doing so.[

It really is that simple.

All The Best

Doctordarkspawn · July 2018

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Salvas_Aren wrote: »

You make me believe that you are RL-anti-everything, and RL PC forces you to mess with digital vampires because you cannot bash against gays, communists, immigrants aso any longer.

Well I have no interest in bashing members of those groups, or any other groups.

However, if I CHOSE to bash against them there's not a damn thing anyone can do to stop me AS LONG AS I am prepared to live with the CONSEQUENCES of such a CHOICE.

How I am here is HOW I AM. I 100% believe in a) freedom of choice, and b) living with the consequences of those choices.

And if you CHOOSE to do something knowing BEFOREHAND it has consequences then you have no reasonable grounds to complain about those consequences once you've made that CHOICE.

If Vampirism was something that could just happen to you without your consent than I'd agree entirely with OP's sentiments. But it isn't, so I don't.

All The Best

THIS ISN'T LIKE GOING TO COLLEGE OR LIKE TAKING OUT A MORGAGE OR ABOUT CRASHING YOUR CAR.

These 'consequences' are easily circumvented allready and I ask again, who died and made you mother superior and mother nature, all at the same time, John Marston?

Stop trying to force your agressive love for consequence on the rest of us over something so friggin' trivial.

Also, if we cant hide vampirism because you insist on enforcing your will over something so petty and small, I invoke the same right and say 'you cant say all the best anymore'.

Gandrhulf_Harbard · July 2018

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

These 'consequences' are easily circumvented allready

So what's the issue?

Circumvent them already!

All The Best

Doctordarkspawn · July 2018

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

These 'consequences' are easily circumvented allready

So what's the issue?

Circumvent them already!

All The Best

Cant say all the best anymore. I've declared it.

And the issue is it's a glitch and therefor you are encouraging me to break the TOS. Stop trying to get us banned.