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Balorgh Monster Set - Adjustments needed?
Jeezye
✭✭✭✭✭
Hey guys, so I recently managed to log into PTS and test the new Balorgh set. When seeing it for the first time, I wasn't too sure weather I understood the tooltip correct. To make clear what the set actually does for those who don't know:
After you activate an ultimate, you gain weapon and spelldamage equal to twice the amount of ultimate consumed.
It's a pretty cool set, a good idea and I really like the concept. However, there are two mechanics that I think will be overperforming, especially in PvP:
Anyways, as for point 1 I really would like to see the change to ultimate SPENT, just like DK battleroar and sets like Lamia's Song and Witchman. I guess with this change point 2 will be obsolete at the same time, since damage stacking can't be "abused" for lost cast ultimates like Dawnbreaker or Incaps.
Glad to hear opinions about the topic!
Edited by Jeezye on July 25, 2018 11:23AM After you activate an ultimate, you gain weapon and spelldamage equal to twice the amount of ultimate consumed.
It's a pretty cool set, a good idea and I really like the concept. However, there are two mechanics that I think will be overperforming, especially in PvP:
- The weapon and spell damage scale off of your ultmate CONSUMED, not ultimate SPENT. This is a huge deal, as it allwows players to store their ultimate all the way up to 500 points and then unleash huge amounts of burst. In PvP, this is devestating as it allows players to play passively until they reach an advantage so great that they feel comfortable to enter combat. This indirectly encourages the ganking playstyle as well. On the PvE side, I think its not that big of a deal, since ultimates are usually spent right away when they are up. However, this might lead to groups farming ultimate at a boss and wipe over again until every has 500 points, and then start the real try to gain the 10 seconds burn down time on any boss. I really don't think anyone wants this situation.
- The other thing that I am bothered about is that the damage amplification also applies to the triggering ultimate itself. Imagine a nightblade use an incap with 1000 addition weapondamage from stealth ... yeah. I'd rather like to see the damage amp kick in AFTER the ultimate is spent, however I'm not too sure how this would work out with damage over time ults, since they will only loose the damage amp for their first tick.
Anyways, as for point 1 I really would like to see the change to ultimate SPENT, just like DK battleroar and sets like Lamia's Song and Witchman. I guess with this change point 2 will be obsolete at the same time, since damage stacking can't be "abused" for lost cast ultimates like Dawnbreaker or Incaps.
Glad to hear opinions about the topic!
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Takes-No-Prisoner✭✭✭✭✭
✭The other thing that I am bothered about is that the damage amplification also applies to the triggering ultimate itself. Imagine a nightblade use an incap with 1000 addition weapondamage from stealth ... yeah. I'd rather like to see the damage amp kick in AFTER the ultimate is spent, however I'm not too sure how this would work out with damage over time ults, since they will only loose the damage amp for their first tick.
I see what you're legitimately saying here. On the flip side, StamNB isn't going to hold onto Incap for too long due to two reasons. One being it allows for that damage scaling right at the start of the fight, plus defile and secondly, there is a point in hanging onto the ultimate for too long where the Nightblade does a 'spinny flashy' animation before landing the Incap itself. Which screws up rotation timings.
Ideally, we still want to be burning that ult closer to 75-100 whenever possible. It's technically a 6th ability on our bar and an important part of their toolset.Edited by Takes-No-Prisoner on July 25, 2018 1:25PM0 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭If you see the hands glow red then play super defensive/evasive for 10 seconds. Thankfully this proc occurs after you use your ult and doesn't amplify the ult used. The only class this 2-piece is concerning with are sorcs since their Rune Cage removes counterplay. If they make Rune Cage dodgeable as discussed it won't be as bad then. I personally find this two piece to be very interesting, and it rewards patience.
It's going to be stupid strong with corrosive armor!
You see someone activate this ult with that 2-piece.... Run!1 -
The_Protagonist✭✭✭✭✭
✭In PvE the best use for this set would be to pair it with War Machine and see new benchmark in high DPS.
The ultimate SPENT is not right as you have pointed out, that part has to change or otherwise we will have another season of QQ threads and honestly I have had enough of those for a lifetime.0 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If you see the hands glow red then play super defensive/evasive for 10 seconds. Thankfully this proc occurs after you use your ult and doesn't amplify the ult used. The only class this 2-piece is concerning with are sorcs since their Rune Cage removes counterplay. If they make Rune Cage dodgeable as discussed it won't be as bad then. I personally find this two piece to be very interesting, and it rewards patience.
It's going to be stupid strong with corrosive armor!
You see someone activate this ult with that 2-piece.... Run!
It does work on ults that do damage over time correct?
I have plans to use this on at least two of may characters. My magblade bomber. Hit tether at 500 ult right before proxy det goes off, and watch everything melt.
And my health tank with Permafrost. Hit Perma at 500 ult and jump from just under 2K spell damage to 3K and wreck people. I'll have to sacrifice troll king for it, but I think it will be worth it.0 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If you see the hands glow red then play super defensive/evasive for 10 seconds. Thankfully this proc occurs after you use your ult and doesn't amplify the ult used. The only class this 2-piece is concerning with are sorcs since their Rune Cage removes counterplay. If they make Rune Cage dodgeable as discussed it won't be as bad then. I personally find this two piece to be very interesting, and it rewards patience.
It's going to be stupid strong with corrosive armor!
You see someone activate this ult with that 2-piece.... Run!
I took a moment to think about what corrosive armor plus this set would mean... Corrosive armor followed by proxy det and steel tornado. Stamina bombs could become extremely viable. Steel tornado is already pretty strong, but ignore physical resistance and add 1000 weapon damage. Spec CP into Thurmaturge and it buffs both steel tornado and proxy, and the extra 1K spell damage adds to proxy as well. Hmm...0 -
Jeezye✭✭✭✭✭Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »The other thing that I am bothered about is that the damage amplification also applies to the triggering ultimate itself. Imagine a nightblade use an incap with 1000 addition weapondamage from stealth ... yeah. I'd rather like to see the damage amp kick in AFTER the ultimate is spent, however I'm not too sure how this would work out with damage over time ults, since they will only loose the damage amp for their first tick.
I see what you're legitimately saying here. On the flip side, StamNB isn't going to hold onto Incap for too long due to two reasons. One being it allows for that damage scaling right at the start of the fight, plus defile and secondly, there is a point in hanging onto the ultimate for too long where the Nightblade does a 'spinny flashy' animation before landing the Incap itself. Which screws up rotation timings.
Ideally, we still want to be burning that ult closer to 75-100 whenever possible. It's technically a 6th ability on our bar and an important part of their toolset.
I just took nightblade's incap as an example, this problem applies to every ultimate. Any class and build can spamm light attacks from castle walls and then join the combat once they have 500 ult build up. This doesn't make any sense to me.Thankfully this proc occurs after you use your ult and doesn't amplify the ult used.
I thought it would be the other way around? The ult itself being buffed by the set upon activation. If not, that would mean my second point is in fact invalid.
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React✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Like someone else said, the REAL threat is corrosive armor. Clever, WW hide, 2pc balorgh. Save up 500 ult for that corrosive, pop both the ult and an immovable, pick a target or two to kill. I can already 1 burst people with corrosive up on my med rav/hulk do, just imagine what I'll be able to do with 1000 more weapon damage..
Truthfully though, this set is fine. It's a non damaging proc set oriented towards dealing damage, with a controllable proc and a risk/reward factor. There needs to be more sets designed as well as this one.@ReactSlower - PC/NA - 2000+ CP
React Faster - XB/NA - 1500+ CP
ContentTwitch.tv/reactfaster
Youtube.com/@ReactFaster3 -
Jeezye✭✭✭✭✭BTW please leave other replies at
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/427115/balorgh-monster-set-adjustments-needed#latest
on the pts forum.Like someone else said, the REAL threat is corrosive armor. Clever, WW hide, 2pc balorgh. Save up 500 ult for that corrosive, pop both the ult and an immovable, pick a target or two to kill. I can already 1 burst people with corrosive up on my med rav/hulk do, just imagine what I'll be able to do with 1000 more weapon damage..
Truthfully though, this set is fine. It's a non damaging proc set oriented towards dealing damage, with a controllable proc and a risk/reward factor. There needs to be more sets designed as well as this one.
Hmm not too sure, I mean yes the synergy with corrosive is nice but I think bombblades will be benefitting way more from this set. I also don't quite get how the set has a risk/reward factor, as I don't see any risk using it?0 -
casparian✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Thankfully this proc occurs after you use your ult and doesn't amplify the ult used. !
Why do you say that? Is that based on testing on the PTS? Because currently on PTS it does apply the extra weapon damage to the ultimate used to proc the set, at least with certain ultimates.7-day PVP campaign regular 2016-2019, Flawless Conqueror. MagDK/stamplar/stamwarden/mageblade. Requiem, Legend, Knights of Daggerfall. Currently retired from the wars; waiting on performance improvements.1 -
React✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭BTW please leave other replies at
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/427115/balorgh-monster-set-adjustments-needed#latest
on the pts forum.Like someone else said, the REAL threat is corrosive armor. Clever, WW hide, 2pc balorgh. Save up 500 ult for that corrosive, pop both the ult and an immovable, pick a target or two to kill. I can already 1 burst people with corrosive up on my med rav/hulk do, just imagine what I'll be able to do with 1000 more weapon damage..
Truthfully though, this set is fine. It's a non damaging proc set oriented towards dealing damage, with a controllable proc and a risk/reward factor. There needs to be more sets designed as well as this one.
Hmm not too sure, I mean yes the synergy with corrosive is nice but I think bombblades will be benefitting way more from this set. I also don't quite get how the set has a risk/reward factor, as I don't see any risk using it?
The risk is waiting 3-4x as long to use an ultimate. On dks that means lost sustain, on other classes it means less chances to kill people in exchange for a small window of high burst capability. The only people frequently dropping 500 stored ultimate are those running in zergs, and usually those people aren't skilled enough to be considered a threat.
I mean, just look at how long it takes to store 500 ultimate and ask yourself "would I rather drop four dawnbreakers in this time, or do I know FOR A FACT that i WILL be able to kill people in my 500 ult 10 second balorgh window?"@ReactSlower - PC/NA - 2000+ CP
React Faster - XB/NA - 1500+ CP
ContentTwitch.tv/reactfaster
Youtube.com/@ReactFaster1 -
Hutch679✭✭✭✭✭
✭So essentially, someone could run this helmet with clever alchemist and just start wrecking through people. Massive damage for something like a bomber or even a stam dk able to hit corrosive armor and be invincible for 11 seconds while having an absurd amount of weapon power.0 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭BTW please leave other replies at
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/427115/balorgh-monster-set-adjustments-needed#latest
on the pts forum.Like someone else said, the REAL threat is corrosive armor. Clever, WW hide, 2pc balorgh. Save up 500 ult for that corrosive, pop both the ult and an immovable, pick a target or two to kill. I can already 1 burst people with corrosive up on my med rav/hulk do, just imagine what I'll be able to do with 1000 more weapon damage..
Truthfully though, this set is fine. It's a non damaging proc set oriented towards dealing damage, with a controllable proc and a risk/reward factor. There needs to be more sets designed as well as this one.
Hmm not too sure, I mean yes the synergy with corrosive is nice but I think bombblades will be benefitting way more from this set. I also don't quite get how the set has a risk/reward factor, as I don't see any risk using it?
The risk is waiting 3-4x as long to use an ultimate. On dks that means lost sustain, on other classes it means less chances to kill people in exchange for a small window of high burst capability. The only people frequently dropping 500 stored ultimate are those running in zergs, and usually those people aren't skilled enough to be considered a threat.
I mean, just look at how long it takes to store 500 ultimate and ask yourself "would I rather drop four dawnbreakers in this time, or do I know FOR A FACT that i WILL be able to kill people in my 500 ult 10 second balorgh window?"
That risk is there. But even using a high costing ult like corrosive on cooldown will grant you a solid 400 weapon/spell damage. Pair that with something like Ravager, and even Veiled heritance, and you are looking at 1300 or so weapon damage when it all procs. That much damage potential off of an ult on cooldown, plus the oppurtunity to let you ult tick up to 300, 400, or 500, and getting anywhere from 400 to 1000 extra weapon/spell damage off of that ult is pretty decent.
I will say one thing, this set is going to vastly improve the burst of some of these tank builds that are already wrecking people.0 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So essentially, someone could run this helmet with clever alchemist and just start wrecking through people. Massive damage for something like a bomber or even a stam dk able to hit corrosive armor and be invincible for 11 seconds while having an absurd amount of weapon power.
And ignoring all physical resistance.
This set could actually make hybrids extremely strong in PVP too. Run Clever, with this set and Innate Axiom on a Dunmer, stick to class skills.0 -
Rianai✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'd rather have people wear this than Skoria or the like.
There need to be alternatives to dmg proc sets. And with how op some of those procs are, the alternative needs to be op too.Edited by Rianai on July 25, 2018 4:30PM0 -
Jeezye✭✭✭✭✭So essentially, someone could run this helmet with clever alchemist and just start wrecking through people. Massive damage for something like a bomber or even a stam dk able to hit corrosive armor and be invincible for 11 seconds while having an absurd amount of weapon power.
And ignoring all physical resistance.
This set could actually make hybrids extremely strong in PVP too. Run Clever, with this set and Innate Axiom on a Dunmer, stick to class skills.
Ive also thought at hybrids. Even for a pelinal Setup, the added weapon damage will ocme in handy.0 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So essentially, someone could run this helmet with clever alchemist and just start wrecking through people. Massive damage for something like a bomber or even a stam dk able to hit corrosive armor and be invincible for 11 seconds while having an absurd amount of weapon power.
And ignoring all physical resistance.
This set could actually make hybrids extremely strong in PVP too. Run Clever, with this set and Innate Axiom on a Dunmer, stick to class skills.
Ive also thought at hybrids. Even for a pelinal Setup, the added weapon damage will ocme in handy.
I really look forward to trying this on my PVP tank. It doesn't really do any damage right now, just applies a lot of stuns and roots But being able to boost the damage by a significant amount would make it extremely dangerous. And with the Warden's Ult gen, the time between ults would be relatively low.0 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
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Is that so? It may have changed since I originally tested it. I've been out of town so recent patches could have changed its behavior.1 -
OGLezard✭✭✭✭✭
✭If you see the hands glow red then play super defensive/evasive for 10 seconds. Thankfully this proc occurs after you use your ult and doesn't amplify the ult used. The only class this 2-piece is concerning with are sorcs since their Rune Cage removes counterplay. If they make Rune Cage dodgeable as discussed it won't be as bad then. I personally find this two piece to be very interesting, and it rewards patience.
It's going to be stupid strong with corrosive armor!
You see someone activate this ult with that 2-piece.... Run!
I took a moment to think about what corrosive armor plus this set would mean... Corrosive armor followed by proxy det and steel tornado. Stamina bombs could become extremely viable. Steel tornado is already pretty strong, but ignore physical resistance and add 1000 weapon damage. Spec CP into Thurmaturge and it buffs both steel tornado and proxy, and the extra 1K spell damage adds to proxy as well. Hmm...
Proxy is not affected by thaum.... master at arms or whatever benefits it. Test it;) @jaws3430 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If you see the hands glow red then play super defensive/evasive for 10 seconds. Thankfully this proc occurs after you use your ult and doesn't amplify the ult used. The only class this 2-piece is concerning with are sorcs since their Rune Cage removes counterplay. If they make Rune Cage dodgeable as discussed it won't be as bad then. I personally find this two piece to be very interesting, and it rewards patience.
It's going to be stupid strong with corrosive armor!
You see someone activate this ult with that 2-piece.... Run!
I took a moment to think about what corrosive armor plus this set would mean... Corrosive armor followed by proxy det and steel tornado. Stamina bombs could become extremely viable. Steel tornado is already pretty strong, but ignore physical resistance and add 1000 weapon damage. Spec CP into Thurmaturge and it buffs both steel tornado and proxy, and the extra 1K spell damage adds to proxy as well. Hmm...
Proxy is not affected by thaum.... master at arms or whatever benefits it. Test it;) @jaws343
I guess that makes sense. Never looked it up. But at least master at arms will benefit some stamina abilities too.0 -
Merlin13KAGL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Why don't they just lower ult Cap to 250 on everything but Overload? (Or lower it across the board and cut overload cost in half?)
There is zero reason (aside from this set, four years later) to have "extra ult."Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...
Earn it.
IRL'ing for a while for assorted reasons, in forum, and in game.I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS1 -
OGLezard✭✭✭✭✭
✭If you see the hands glow red then play super defensive/evasive for 10 seconds. Thankfully this proc occurs after you use your ult and doesn't amplify the ult used. The only class this 2-piece is concerning with are sorcs since their Rune Cage removes counterplay. If they make Rune Cage dodgeable as discussed it won't be as bad then. I personally find this two piece to be very interesting, and it rewards patience.
It's going to be stupid strong with corrosive armor!
You see someone activate this ult with that 2-piece.... Run!
I took a moment to think about what corrosive armor plus this set would mean... Corrosive armor followed by proxy det and steel tornado. Stamina bombs could become extremely viable. Steel tornado is already pretty strong, but ignore physical resistance and add 1000 weapon damage. Spec CP into Thurmaturge and it buffs both steel tornado and proxy, and the extra 1K spell damage adds to proxy as well. Hmm...
Proxy is not affected by thaum.... master at arms or whatever benefits it. Test it;) @jaws343
I guess that makes sense. Never looked it up. But at least master at arms will benefit some stamina abilities too.
Oddly enough, thaum doesnt affect curse either but masters does lol this game hardly makes sense sometimes0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If you see the hands glow red then play super defensive/evasive for 10 seconds. Thankfully this proc occurs after you use your ult and doesn't amplify the ult used. The only class this 2-piece is concerning with are sorcs since their Rune Cage removes counterplay. If they make Rune Cage dodgeable as discussed it won't be as bad then. I personally find this two piece to be very interesting, and it rewards patience.
It's going to be stupid strong with corrosive armor!
You see someone activate this ult with that 2-piece.... Run!
I took a moment to think about what corrosive armor plus this set would mean... Corrosive armor followed by proxy det and steel tornado. Stamina bombs could become extremely viable. Steel tornado is already pretty strong, but ignore physical resistance and add 1000 weapon damage. Spec CP into Thurmaturge and it buffs both steel tornado and proxy, and the extra 1K spell damage adds to proxy as well. Hmm...
Proxy is not affected by thaum.... master at arms or whatever benefits it. Test it;) @jaws343
I guess that makes sense. Never looked it up. But at least master at arms will benefit some stamina abilities too.
Oddly enough, thaum doesnt affect curse either but masters does lol this game hardly makes sense sometimes
Curse original was considered a DoT by the game, Devs said it shouldn't be and changed what CP affects, however they originally didn't fix how it interacted with other abilities or sets. (.i.e it still didn't break rune cage - which at the time didn't break by DoTs and lasted 20 secs) it's been a crazy ride for abilities, but curse supposed to be a direct damage ability that is delayed0 -
OGLezard✭✭✭✭✭
✭Waffennacht wrote: »If you see the hands glow red then play super defensive/evasive for 10 seconds. Thankfully this proc occurs after you use your ult and doesn't amplify the ult used. The only class this 2-piece is concerning with are sorcs since their Rune Cage removes counterplay. If they make Rune Cage dodgeable as discussed it won't be as bad then. I personally find this two piece to be very interesting, and it rewards patience.
It's going to be stupid strong with corrosive armor!
You see someone activate this ult with that 2-piece.... Run!
I took a moment to think about what corrosive armor plus this set would mean... Corrosive armor followed by proxy det and steel tornado. Stamina bombs could become extremely viable. Steel tornado is already pretty strong, but ignore physical resistance and add 1000 weapon damage. Spec CP into Thurmaturge and it buffs both steel tornado and proxy, and the extra 1K spell damage adds to proxy as well. Hmm...
Proxy is not affected by thaum.... master at arms or whatever benefits it. Test it;) @jaws343
I guess that makes sense. Never looked it up. But at least master at arms will benefit some stamina abilities too.
Oddly enough, thaum doesnt affect curse either but masters does lol this game hardly makes sense sometimes
Curse original was considered a DoT by the game, Devs said it shouldn't be and changed what CP affects, however they originally didn't fix how it interacted with other abilities or sets. (.i.e it still didn't break rune cage - which at the time didn't break by DoTs and lasted 20 secs) it's been a crazy ride for abilities, but curse supposed to be a direct damage ability that is delayed
Yea I remember lol trust me
but the way they defined their damage over time abilities a long time ago was anything that does not deal its damage instantly :P
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IZZEFlameLash✭✭✭✭✭
✭DemonDruaga wrote: »Incoming 2h ult oneshots again :')
Only for some random class to be nerfed or just the ult nerf until next DLC.Imperials, the one and true masters of all mortal races of Tamriel0 -
Tetrafy✭✭✭✭So essentially, someone could run this helmet with clever alchemist and just start wrecking through people. Massive damage for something like a bomber or even a stam dk able to hit corrosive armor and be invincible for 11 seconds while having an absurd amount of weapon power.
Isnt that what sorcs and nightblades do now?0
