The Limited Time / Cycle IS Silly...

Vaerth · July 2018

Here I am, wallet open to buy Crowns as a new player (well, returning from a time when there was not a Crown store) looking to buy mounts and costumes. Perhaps a skin if I see one I like.

My friend who was luckily on the phone as I was about to pay asked me what I was buying Crowns for. I said, well, I want to buy the Breton Armor, Eleven Hero Armor, maybe the Nord one as well but undecided. I went on to say I wanted a few mounts. A leopard, Wolf, etc. He proceeded to tell me the costumes I referenced were not in the store. I said "I saw them posted before I even started playing again, yes they are you can buy them they are just for cosmetics). Well, he responded saying them come and go. I thought he was joking, so I went and looked in the store... Well, sure enough there was nothing I wanted to buy at all. I bought a cheap Horse for now because the mounts available were not ones i have seen advertised before in the Showcase.

I am not angry over it, in fact it just saved me money on cosmetics anyway. I just subscribed to ESO Plus for now, but, I totally thought about how dumb this was of ZoS to cycle created content. This is not a brick and mortar store, were shelf space is a factor. This is digital content, with mainly a cosmetic reason to buy for what I was going to buy. ZoS would have made a lovely little chunk of cash from my wife and I last night had they kept the work they already did on costumes in the store. Limited time gets impulse buyers, but those who were not active in the past months / years.

Overall, I am simply just mentioning that ZoS is losing money, at least from our side, due to removing things for me to spend money on. Does that not seem a little dumb? Removing more things for people to pay them for seems... Counter productive for a company no?

Minyassa · July 2018

Yes, it does. I've said the same thing many times. There's a lot of things I would buy, but I didn't join the game right at the beginning, I never even heard of it until last year. But now it seems they like to put old crown store items into the crown crates, which means you can theoretically "buy" them if you collect gems from other crown crates. This effectively raises the price of old items just a heck of a lot.

The limited time sales are one of their sillier ideas. I know they think they make a lot of money on impulse buys, but they haven't tried a limited time sale that's, say, two months long to make a comparison. Sometimes people's entertainment budget for a month won't cover what they've put up for a limited time, so instead of impulse spending--because we do not HAVE it to spend, not because we're reluctant--we just don't spend it, period, and they miss out. I think they are just banking on anyone who plays this game putting ESO before things like food and utilities, which is a little insulting. I really don't think the average gamer is that foolhardy.

huschdeguddzje · July 2018

I'm glad I got the spymaster costume, looks like it won't be returning soon if naryus costume is anything to go by.
That being said the exclusivity is one of its appeals

TerraDewBerry · July 2018

Chances are they will not stop the limited time items because they want to snag the impulse buyers. They don't want people to have time to really think and have the chance to reconsider choices about buying some items (imho). When I see time limited items... I just pretty much say NO because I know what they are doing.

Vaerth · July 2018

huschdeguddzje wrote: »

I'm glad I got the spymaster costume, looks like it won't be returning soon if naryus costume is anything to go by.
That being said the exclusivity is one of its appeals

It may appeal to you but I could careless what other people are using. All other players around me have the same mount? Same costume? I do not care in a game where we have the choice. If people generally love a style, they will use it no matter how many others are running the same style.

I am happy you got what you were wanting though. I do not need any costume to enjoy the game, I was actually more supporting the game with my money by making my character stylish is all lol. If ZoS wants to remove items, well, that is their choice it just means I can not pay them for the digital items lol. Common sense would suggest to leave ALL items ever made in the store so people can buy as they please. But, if you want to wait several months for a player to buy an item so be it, I can not say I will be here in months or not. Depends, but I can say I would have bought a lovely chunk of stuff from the store last night had they given me the option to buy what I was looking or lol.

Vaerth · July 2018

Ahnastashia wrote: »

Chances are they will not stop the limited time items because they want to snag the impulse buyers. They don't want people to have time to really think and have the chance to reconsider choices about buying some items (imho). When I see time limited items... I just pretty much say NO because I know what they are doing.

Agreed, it is rather off putting the way they have it. Feels like a shady dude in a dark alley whispering to you to check out his goods lol. ZoS might just be driving us away from their Crown Store unintentionally! lmao

BiggShooter · July 2018

ESO needs to bring back "limited time items" once a year for a short time for ESO Plus members. I know there are a few things I would buy. Besides, they'd MAKE money, so I don't see why it's so difficult to take care of us that pay each month to play. Who knows, they might get a few more ESO Plus memberships by having an "Annual Limited Time Items Crown Store Sale!"

How 'bout it ZOS?!? HINT..HINT!!

FakeFox · July 2018

By making things exclusive, especially time exclusive, you get people to spend more money then they otherwise would on stuff they don't even need or want, because of prestige and because the time pressure leads to non informed buying decisions. If it wouldn't work out companies wouldn't be doing it.

weedgenius · July 2018

I actually think it has the opposite effect, for me at least. I don’t impulse buy anything because the way they randomly add and pull things from the store makes me question every potential purchase. “Even though I really would like this limited time item, what if they add a different limited time item that I want even more next week?” Then I never end up buying anything.

Vaerth · July 2018

FakeFox wrote: »

By making things exclusive, especially time exclusive, you get people to spend more money then they otherwise would on stuff they don't even need or want, because of prestige and because the time pressure leads to non informed buying decisions. If it wouldn't work out companies wouldn't be doing it.

Others here suggest otherwise, and more than one has claimed to not buy anything due to the current system. Perhaps they do better with other players than those who have posted here... But, from my point of view not offering the cosmetic results in losing sales. Because, as I said, I was wallet open ready to spend a good $100 last night only to find none of them items I was buying crowns for was available lol. I am a returning player, I have been here since March 2014, early access on PC and now I play on my Xbox One X...

Vaerth · July 2018

I apologize for any typos fellas, not sure how to edit and I am at work right now lol

Acrolas · July 2018

“On the revenue side, they’ve done something that’s really unique, which is come up with a perception of exclusivity,” said Michael Pachter, an analyst at Wedbush Securities Inc. Many accessories in the Fortnite shop are available on a limited basis, prompting players to buy before coveted items disappear from virtual shelves. “If you see another player in a leopard skin and go to the store and see it’s no longer available, you think, Shoot, I’ve got to move on it next time.”
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-07-24/fortnite-phenomenon-turns-epic-game-developer-into-billionaire

So, basically, the argument is that ZOS could be making more money if they stuck to a one-and-done system where items never came back once retired. Not the evergreen system that you suggest.

ZOS is not at fault for any items you missed during your hiatus, especially as your opinion on the crown store hasn't changed in that time. And your departure around December '16 was after the limited offers on all the hero costumes so "returning from a time when there was not a Crown store" is not an accurate statement.

BretonMage · July 2018

Acrolas wrote: »

“On the revenue side, they’ve done something that’s really unique, which is come up with a perception of exclusivity,” said Michael Pachter, an analyst at Wedbush Securities Inc. Many accessories in the Fortnite shop are available on a limited basis, prompting players to buy before coveted items disappear from virtual shelves. “If you see another player in a leopard skin and go to the store and see it’s no longer available, you think, Shoot, I’ve got to move on it next time.”
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-07-24/fortnite-phenomenon-turns-epic-game-developer-into-billionaire

So, basically, the argument is that ZOS could be making more money if they stuck to a one-and-done system where items never came back once retired. Not the evergreen system that you suggest.

The concept of scarcity in marketing is only useful when there isn't actual scarcity though. When there is practically nothing I want to buy in the store otherwise, then my money/crowns still go unspent until something I like turns up - and then I will buy it, limited time or not, because I've been waiting months and months for it. And I would have bought more items had they simply offered other items I liked for sale.

FakeFox · July 2018

Vaerth wrote: »

FakeFox wrote: »

By making things exclusive, especially time exclusive, you get people to spend more money then they otherwise would on stuff they don't even need or want, because of prestige and because the time pressure leads to non informed buying decisions. If it wouldn't work out companies wouldn't be doing it.

Others here suggest otherwise, and more than one has claimed to not buy anything due to the current system. Perhaps they do better with other players than those who have posted here... But, from my point of view not offering the cosmetic results in losing sales. Because, as I said, I was wallet open ready to spend a good $100 last night only to find none of them items I was buying crowns for was available lol. I am a returning player, I have been here since March 2014, early access on PC and now I play on my Xbox One X...

From my general experience such practices usually make money from from customers with rather small interest in the product. For ESO that would be players that only play for a few months at best and then lose interest in the game.This system usually makes money by drawing from a large costumer base. Additionally you keep your product range small, which can also have it's benefits.
I of course can't know how this works out for ESO, but I know that it works pretty well for other businesses. Maybe they do their own market research, maybe they just copy what works and can't do math. Who knows.^^

Lykanus · July 2018

You can basically have two options for the store, one where you offer all your items you have, which will increase the likelihood that a player will find something he likes and goes to buy that.
However the second option is making the items in the store somewhat desired to create a kind of rarity to it, which will increase the players to buy things for looking unique or by just being impulsive.

In both szenarios you'll lose buyers too, in the first the impulsive buyers and these who wish be get something "special", in the later those that just dont find anything left in the store they still desire from whats currently available.

Which is more profitable will surely only be able to tell who knows the exact data and has knowledge about such markets.

Vaerth · July 2018

FakeFox wrote: »

Vaerth wrote: »

FakeFox wrote: »

By making things exclusive, especially time exclusive, you get people to spend more money then they otherwise would on stuff they don't even need or want, because of prestige and because the time pressure leads to non informed buying decisions. If it wouldn't work out companies wouldn't be doing it.

Others here suggest otherwise, and more than one has claimed to not buy anything due to the current system. Perhaps they do better with other players than those who have posted here... But, from my point of view not offering the cosmetic results in losing sales. Because, as I said, I was wallet open ready to spend a good $100 last night only to find none of them items I was buying crowns for was available lol. I am a returning player, I have been here since March 2014, early access on PC and now I play on my Xbox One X...

From my general experience such practices usually make money from from customers with rather small interest in the product. For ESO that would be players that only play for a few months at best and then lose interest in the game.This system usually makes money by drawing from a large costumer base. Additionally you keep your product range small, which can also have it's benefits.
I of course can't know how this works out for ESO, but I know that it works pretty well for other businesses. Maybe they do their own market research, maybe they just copy what works and can't do math. Who knows.^^

Well said my friend

BejaProphet · July 2018

I get what they are doing, and I understand the financial sense of it. I have no problem with it in theory. But at the same time can't we all admit that the sheer flurry and quickness of it combined with the extremely high prices combined with the chance being forever missed is a bit frustrating? I wish they could think of someway to maintain that "exclusivity appeal" while giving me some venue in which to grab an item I simply couldn't get at the time.

Vaerth · July 2018

BejaProphet wrote: »

I get what they are doing, and I understand the financial sense of it. I have no problem with it in theory. But at the same time can't we all admit that the sheer flurry and quickness of it combined with the extremely high prices combined with the chance being forever missed is a bit frustrating? I wish they could think of someway to maintain that "exclusivity appeal" while giving me some venue in which to grab an item I simply couldn't get at the time.

I agree, it feels rather like a Black Friday shopping event with how they run the Crown shop, in a sense that when I look at all the crazy going on I just prefer to walk away and buy something else lol. Not that Black Friday events have any type of relation to digital game items, but the feeling I get looking at the shopping event and the rushed over priced cosmetics are the same. It is intimidating and when I feel that way, I just turn away from it and go to something more... I guess comfortable / trusting? lol. Sorry for the lack of better words, but their store method overall has me way less like to spend money then if they just filled the shelves and let me shop around lol. I went through the entire shop in minutes. I other games I could certainly spend some time browsing and buying. Not so much here in ESO. Which, like I said earlier is not a big deal, I just wont buy anything but I though it worthy to mention why they lost sales from my wife and I lol. We almost spent more on Crowns then the game cost on day one, but they had nothing we wanted after we were told to check out what there is first lol. Lucky save from my buddy no doubt!

jimmulvaney · July 2018

The best marketable way to deal with the FOMO buyers (impulse, fear of missing out) is to cycle sale prices, not content. For instance, I am a HUGE fan of Daz 3d and can tell you that I easily spend a thousand dollars a year on their content. They cycle prices in predictable intervals, with themed sales of 75, 50, and 25% off but even the generations-old content is still available, granted they 'vault' some items that rarely ever sell, but still available from time to time. Honestly ZOS, my crowns are just adding up and I got nothing worth spending them on because of limited time offers.

Nestor · July 2018

Having been in sales off and on for the last 40 years, here is what I have learned:

1. Offer something with value for a fair price, and people will buy it.
2. Make sure the things you do sell are availible to be bought.
3. Dont lie, manipulate or bamboozle your customers if you want repeate sales.

How many of these rules has ZOS broken?

ghastley · July 2018

jimmulvaney wrote: »

The best marketable way to deal with the FOMO buyers (impulse, fear of missing out) is to cycle sale prices, not content. For instance, I am a HUGE fan of Daz 3d and can tell you that I easily spend a thousand dollars a year on their content. They cycle prices in predictable intervals, with themed sales of 75, 50, and 25% off but even the generations-old content is still available, granted they 'vault' some items that rarely ever sell, but still available from time to time. Honestly ZOS, my crowns are just adding up and I got nothing worth spending them on because of limited time offers.

I'm with this idea. Limited time discounts, not limited time content. Since the items sold have no resale value, you can't convince me that an "exclusive" is actually more valuable. It's just a greater annoyance to those being excluded.

Vaerth · July 2018

Nestor wrote: »

Having been in sales off and on for the last 40 years, here is what I have learned:

1. Offer something with value for a fair price, and people will buy it.
2. Make sure the things you do sell are availible to be bought.
3. Dont lie, manipulate or bamboozle your customers if you want repeate sales.

How many of these rules has ZOS broken?

At least 2 of 3 I know of in my time on and off with ESO lol

Viscous119 · July 2018

OP your right! I don't understand why they can't add everything they have to the crown store and leave it there permanently. It's like they don't have enough slots in the crown store to sell stuff. It makes no sense whatsoever.

Jayne_Doe · July 2018

I do feel bad for new players that can't get their hands on a particular costume/pet/mount/house/whatever cosmetic simply because they weren't playing the game at the time. Sure, many have returned in the crates, but then new players are gambling for items that I was able to buy outright.

A few have returned, such as the Elven Hero costume, which was offered in the CS around the launch of Summerset. The holiday items have returned, as well as the Black Camel, which was originally offered in a Black Fredas bundle and then offered during the most recent Fredas the 13th sale (along with previous Fredas the 13th items). There may be others I just can't think of off the top of my head.

Also, there was one limited time house, Pariah's Pinnacle, which was on sale for about a month last December. I have no idea whether that extended time-frame garnered more sales than the shorter ones, but it's possible that it didn't get them any more sales and so they're sticking with their 3-4 day window (although they did extend the sale of the Grotto to a week or so, iirc).

I don't impulse buy, and it seems there are others posting here who don't either, but we may well be in the minority. Perhaps they do generate more sales on LTO items than they do on things "permanently" in the store. I do buy limited-time items, but only the ones I want, and I budget for them and pay close attention to the CS Showcase so I know what's coming up and decide what I do and don't want. I've even passed on things I originally intended to get when I didn't like what the finished product looked like in game. I don't buy things because I think "ooh, this will be exclusive," but perhaps a lot more people actually do.

So, perhaps this model does make them more money, but it leaves out new players. I'd like to see a compromise where LTO items are offered on their anniversary, at least for things like Tel Galen or Naryu's outfit, which are closely tied to MW - why not offer them again at MW's anniversary? Or, someone else here posted an idea about an annual sale of retired items for ESO Plus members.

For full disclosure, I've played continuously since PC early access, so I haven't missed out on anything I wanted (well, maybe a couple items here or there that were exclusive to crates, since I don't buy those).

BejaProphet · July 2018

Jayne_Doe wrote: »

Also, there was one limited time house, Pariah's Pinnacle, which was on sale for about a month last December. I have no idea whether that extended time-frame garnered more sales than the shorter ones.

Pariah's Pinnacle is back for the anniversary event!

max_only · July 2018

Acrolas wrote: »

“On the revenue side, they’ve done something that’s really unique, which is come up with a perception of exclusivity,” said Michael Pachter, an analyst at Wedbush Securities Inc. Many accessories in the Fortnite shop are available on a limited basis, prompting players to buy before coveted items disappear from virtual shelves. “If you see another player in a leopard skin and go to the store and see it’s no longer available, you think, Shoot, I’ve got to move on it next time.”
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-07-24/fortnite-phenomenon-turns-epic-game-developer-into-billionaire

So, basically, the argument is that ZOS could be making more money if they stuck to a one-and-done system where items never came back once retired. Not the evergreen system that you suggest.

ZOS is not at fault for any items you missed during your hiatus, especially as your opinion on the crown store hasn't changed in that time. And your departure around December '16 was after the limited offers on all the hero costumes so "returning from a time when there was not a Crown store" is not an accurate statement.

Someone has receipts!!

Ri_Khan · July 2018

I've spent very little money at the crown store for similar reasons. The limited time/exclusive thing just doesn't work for me as a customer. Creating a false scarcity in order to charge stupid prices is a sleazy tactic used by companies that don't respect their customers. Especially when it's implemented as often as it is here.

BretonMage · July 2018

Jayne_Doe wrote: »

So, perhaps this model does make them more money, but it leaves out new players. I'd like to see a compromise where LTO items are offered on their anniversary, at least for things like Tel Galen or Naryu's outfit, which are closely tied to MW - why not offer them again at MW's anniversary? Or, someone else here posted an idea about an annual sale of retired items for ESO Plus members.

Yes, I'd love to see some of the earlier costumes brought back, even for another limited time.

Long_Jon_Nefty · July 2018

Disn.. Ermm Zeni Vault?
At least they get cool plush toys of their favorite animals.

DanteYoda · July 2018

I totally agree and i've never seen this marketing tactic in an other mmorpg.. To be honest its frankly quite insane to me.

Ri_Khan wrote: »

I've spent very little money at the crown store for similar reasons. The limited time/exclusive thing just doesn't work for me as a customer. Creating a false scarcity in order to charge stupid prices is a sleazy tactic used by companies that don't respect their customers. Especially when it's implemented as often as it is here.

Same.. Its either it looks cool and i'll buy it and it doesn't look cool and i wont buy it.. I honestly could not care how many other customers own what i own.

And funnily a lot of those early people who got it left so you never see the limited stuff anyway..

Wildberryjack · July 2018

Agree with this. Sometimes I have money to spend on crowns and sometimes I don't. If something I want leaves the crown store before I can spare the cash for the crowns then I just don't buy the crowns at all. Maybe when something else I want comes in the store I'll have the cash to spare then, and perhaps not. But I won't buy crowns even if I can afford to if I don't see anything I want.