Hop on the DK band wagon! WINGS

ItsNebula · July 2018

I love the class, i really do... but since wings are getting (Or have) Snare Immunity, it seems like its just KILLED class diversity in PvP. (PC NA)

Before.. you would NEVER see DK's.. or if you did, they never ran wings.. but why wouldnt you wanna play a Stam DK now?
Stam DK's pretty much do NOT need to run medium armor.. why? Theyre very tanky in heavy.. and now in Heavy, they dont need Forward Momentum.. why?
Wings gives the immunity and removal of snares. So they run rally for the burst heal.

So why not play a class that has pretty damn good damage, very tanky, major mending, class snare immunity/removal, can run 2 really good Burst Heals with a HoT, ON TOP of having a skill.. ONE skill that completely counters 2 classes...

MagSorc and MagBlade. (MagSorc to an extent)

Imo, the version of Wings that gives Snare Removal and Immunity, shouldn't reflect skills, but instead absorb them.

That might be to much, and wings is VERY handy for out numbered situations, but when it comes to 1v1's, or just GvG's, 1v2's etc.. its almost to OP imo.
I hate asking/suggesting another DK nerf since they get nerfed pretty much every patch, but i think wings have gone a little to far now.

Whats your guy's opinion on wings now?

casparian · July 2018

Have you taken a look at the DK class rep discord? StamDK is dead and has no identity according to DKs.

Things generally aren't as good as they look on paper. The grass is always greener on the other side.

I will say that I don't understand why DKs' calls for greater mobility within the class have been heeded by the devs repeatedly (the addition of Major Expedition, and now not only snare removal but snare immunity) when templars have been making exactly the same arguments and have gotten...um...Hasty Prayer.

The Uninvited · July 2018

Sure, stam DK can do that. Now, how about mag DK?

Vapirko · July 2018

Well considering the exorbitant magicka cost of wings I don’t know that it will negate the need for FM. Most Stam DK builds can only afford to use wings maybe twice in a row and that’s only if you don’t need to put up volatile armor again. Plus FM offers much more immunity time than wings does. And we all know from shuffle how worthless 2 seconds of immunity can be.

Vietfox · July 2018

ItsNebula wrote: »

I love the class, i really do... but since wings are getting (Or have) Snare Immunity, it seems like its just KILLED class diversity in PvP. (PC NA)

Before.. you would NEVER see DK's.. or if you did, they never ran wings.. but why wouldnt you wanna play a Stam DK now?
Stam DK's pretty much do NOT need to run medium armor.. why? Theyre very tanky in heavy.. and now in Heavy, they dont need Forward Momentum.. why?
Wings gives the immunity and removal of snares. So they run rally for the burst heal.

So why not play a class that has pretty damn good damage, very tanky, major mending, class snare immunity/removal, can run 2 really good Burst Heals with a HoT, ON TOP of having a skill.. ONE skill that completely counters 2 classes...

MagSorc and MagBlade. (MagSorc to an extent)

Imo, the version of Wings that gives Snare Removal and Immunity, shouldn't reflect skills, but instead absorb them.

That might be to much, and wings is VERY handy for out numbered situations, but when it comes to 1v1's, or just GvG's, 1v2's etc.. its almost to OP imo.
I hate asking/suggesting another DK nerf since they get nerfed pretty much every patch, but i think wings have gone a little to far now.

Whats your guy's opinion on wings now?

Yet u asked for snare removal for streak/BoL

Definitely u want sorcs to be the top class

Wing · July 2018

I think this is a grass is greener thing going on as mentioned above.

is this just looking at paper or do you actually play the class?

a lot of your points have little to do with DK, anyone can wear heavy (almost every stam build that's not NB or sometimes warden run heavy) yeah DK can make the choice to run rally over FM but it is a choice and not an easy one for reasons, all other classes don't require rally as much as DK due to better heals.

other classes may not have built in snare removal but all of them save templar have built in speed buffs. that's a compromise DK's wanted, fine, they are not fast, but they don't want to be slow.

Stam NB, Sorc, and Warden still reign as top stamina dogs in pvp, I hope DK will get pushed a little closer, and I don't play stamina templar so I cannot tell you what they need or if they are getting it.

KingLogix · July 2018

Wings cost to much on stam dk

Between fragmented/igneous > Volitile/hardened armor stam dk does not have enough magic sustain to make wings a "threat" to any mag classes. You dont have to worry lol... the stam dk will still suck. Wings can be casted about 2 times in a row. If any stam dk cast wings 2x in a row, they are most likely a dead stam dk. Igneous and volitile are more important.

ItsNebula · July 2018

KingLogix wrote: »

Wings cost to much on stam dk Between fragmented/igneous > Volitile/hardened armor stam dk does not have enough magic sustain to make wings a "threat" to any mag classes. You dont have to worry lol... the stam dk will still suck. Wings can be casted about 2 times in a row. If any stam dk cast wings 2x in a row, they are most likely a dead stam dk. Igneous and volitile are more important.

You would be surprised.

Ive fought a few StamDK's that can manage to keep wings up with about 70% up time.
Smartest idea would be to run a infused jewelry with a mag recov. Leap is cheap, so magicka isnt a problem.
Volitile is a pretty long buff, so you can easily regen up.

ItsNebula · July 2018

casparian wrote: »

Have you taken a look at the DK class rep discord? StamDK is dead and has no identity according to DKs.

Things generally aren't as good as they look on paper. The grass is always greener on the other side.

I will say that I don't understand why DKs' calls for greater mobility within the class have been heeded by the devs repeatedly (the addition of Major Expedition, and now not only snare removal but snare immunity) when templars have been making exactly the same arguments and have gotten...um...Hasty Prayer.

StamDK isnt dead. PC NA, EVERYONE is a DK these days. Whether it be Mag or Stam.
Went from all you would see is NB's and Sorcs to pretty much just DK's..

Earlier today my friend and i were ina 2vX, 1 MagDen healer and 6 DK... 4 Stam 2 MagDK's... all did nothing but pop wings. Did no dmg because.. they just hopped on the band wagon of DK, and dont know how to play the class other than popping wings every 6-7 seconds

Vietfox · July 2018

ItsNebula wrote: »

Leap is cheap

"Stun incap has been nerfed to 120 ulti boys, next target: leap!!!"
Omg i do love ur posts xD

ItsNebula · July 2018

Wing wrote: »

I think this is a grass is greener thing going on as mentioned above.

is this just looking at paper or do you actually play the class?

a lot of your points have little to do with DK, anyone can wear heavy (almost every stam build that's not NB or sometimes warden run heavy) yeah DK can make the choice to run rally over FM but it is a choice and not an easy one for reasons, all other classes don't require rally as much as DK due to better heals.

other classes may not have built in snare removal but all of them save templar have built in speed buffs. that's a compromise DK's wanted, fine, they are not fast, but they don't want to be slow.

Stam NB, Sorc, and Warden still reign as top stamina dogs in pvp, I hope DK will get pushed a little closer, and I don't play stamina templar so I cannot tell you what they need or if they are getting it.

Yes, ive mained DK for a long while before i fell in love with my sorc.
There is now no reason to ever run medium armor on a StamDK, at all. Wings does 3 things which is very powerful..
Snare removal, Snare Immunity AND counters all projectiles.. pretty much countering 2 classes as a whole.
And its a very easy choice to choose Rally or FM on DK now..
"Burst heal? Or a skill that does everything wings does (But a little better), but doesn't reflect and counter 2 classes"
I would say within 2 more patches, there will never be a reason to run medium armor in PvP. Why run it? For shuffle? But you're still going to be very squishy.
It's almost like the heavy armor meta times all over again, just not as powerful as what it used to be.

ItsNebula · July 2018

Vietfox wrote: »

ItsNebula wrote: »

I love the class, i really do... but since wings are getting (Or have) Snare Immunity, it seems like its just KILLED class diversity in PvP. (PC NA)

Before.. you would NEVER see DK's.. or if you did, they never ran wings.. but why wouldnt you wanna play a Stam DK now?
Stam DK's pretty much do NOT need to run medium armor.. why? Theyre very tanky in heavy.. and now in Heavy, they dont need Forward Momentum.. why?
Wings gives the immunity and removal of snares. So they run rally for the burst heal.

So why not play a class that has pretty damn good damage, very tanky, major mending, class snare immunity/removal, can run 2 really good Burst Heals with a HoT, ON TOP of having a skill.. ONE skill that completely counters 2 classes...

MagSorc and MagBlade. (MagSorc to an extent)

Imo, the version of Wings that gives Snare Removal and Immunity, shouldn't reflect skills, but instead absorb them.

That might be to much, and wings is VERY handy for out numbered situations, but when it comes to 1v1's, or just GvG's, 1v2's etc.. its almost to OP imo.
I hate asking/suggesting another DK nerf since they get nerfed pretty much every patch, but i think wings have gone a little to far now.

Whats your guy's opinion on wings now?

Yet u asked for snare removal for streak/BoL
Definitely u want sorcs to be the top class

Please tell me when i asked for a snare removal on streak or BOL..?

And no, MagSorc are defiently not the top class. Maybe for dueling? But open world.. not even close.
out numbered situations magsorcs are pretty bad, considering they rely on shields heavily, and when youre taking a easy 30k+ DPS from a ball of people.. 25k shields wont dont much.. even LOSing barley can save them.. without rune cage too, theyre bad. Yet people are calling for a nerf on rune cage?

ItsNebula · July 2018

The Uninvited wrote: »

Sure, stam DK can do that. Now, how about mag DK?

MagDK's can spam more wings than Stam can.. Dragons blood is a pretty good burst heal, on top of power lashes heal and Burning Embers heal.. healing ward if you run it.. rapid regen if you run it

ItsNebula · July 2018

Vietfox wrote: »

ItsNebula wrote: »

Leap is cheap

"Stun incap has been nerfed to 120 ulti boys, next target: leap!!!"
Omg i do love ur posts xD

I have nothing against leap tho?
It doesnt deal much damage against shields/block, and most people can hardly get it to even crit 8k.
Nothing wrong with leap... am i not allowed to say its cheap tho?

Asmael · July 2018

Wings counter mag sorc now?

Oh, yeah, forgot about Curse / Rune cage / Shock & resto heavies / Enchant procs / Meteor / Fury / Force Pulse / Soul Assault / Pets / atro / dbos / WoE / Mines / Streak.

Yeah, definitely, mag sorcs are completely defenseless against wings. A whole 1 ability from their usual combo gets countered, definitely we need to nerf wings because magicka sorcs are clearly struggling.

Vietfox · July 2018

ItsNebula wrote: »

Vietfox wrote: »

ItsNebula wrote: »

I love the class, i really do... but since wings are getting (Or have) Snare Immunity, it seems like its just KILLED class diversity in PvP. (PC NA)

Before.. you would NEVER see DK's.. or if you did, they never ran wings.. but why wouldnt you wanna play a Stam DK now?
Stam DK's pretty much do NOT need to run medium armor.. why? Theyre very tanky in heavy.. and now in Heavy, they dont need Forward Momentum.. why?
Wings gives the immunity and removal of snares. So they run rally for the burst heal.

So why not play a class that has pretty damn good damage, very tanky, major mending, class snare immunity/removal, can run 2 really good Burst Heals with a HoT, ON TOP of having a skill.. ONE skill that completely counters 2 classes...

MagSorc and MagBlade. (MagSorc to an extent)

Imo, the version of Wings that gives Snare Removal and Immunity, shouldn't reflect skills, but instead absorb them.

That might be to much, and wings is VERY handy for out numbered situations, but when it comes to 1v1's, or just GvG's, 1v2's etc.. its almost to OP imo.
I hate asking/suggesting another DK nerf since they get nerfed pretty much every patch, but i think wings have gone a little to far now.

Whats your guy's opinion on wings now?

Yet u asked for snare removal for streak/BoL
Definitely u want sorcs to be the top class

Please tell me when i asked for a snare removal on streak or BOL..?

And no, MagSorc are defiently not the top class. Maybe for dueling? But open world.. not even close.
out numbered situations magsorcs are pretty bad, considering they rely on shields heavily, and when youre taking a easy 30k+ DPS from a ball of people.. 25k shields wont dont much.. even LOSing barley can save them.. without rune cage too, theyre bad. Yet people are calling for a nerf on rune cage?

U did, just not gonna look for that now, but we both know u did

check ur comments

Edit: i said u want sorc to be the top class, not that it was, it is though

idk · July 2018

ItsNebula wrote: »

I love the class, i really do... but since wings are getting (Or have) Snare Immunity, it seems like its just KILLED class diversity in PvP. (PC NA)

Before.. you would NEVER see DK's..

I guarantee we will see other classes in PvP. Also, my kill DK quest complete pretty fast so it is odd you never, or nearly never see, DKs in PvP.

Over generalizations that are incorrect serve as a poor support such an opinion.

brandonv516 · July 2018

I love fighting DKs with my Torugs Oblivion build spamming Force Pulse.

Lightning staff is also another option if you are having trouble with Wings.

Magblade is not completely shut down. You can also go melee MagBlade and be successful.

ItsNebula · July 2018

brandonv516 wrote: »

I love fighting DKs with my Torugs Oblivion build spamming Force Pulse.

Lightning staff is also another option if you are having trouble with Wings.

Magblade is not completely shut down. You can also go melee MagBlade and be successful.

Is Melee MagBlade good?

WhoThenNow7 · July 2018

Wings doesn't give snare immunity, though. It just removes them.

casparian · July 2018

WhoThenNow7 wrote: »

Wings doesn't give snare immunity, though. It just removes them.

Check the patch notes

ItsNebula · July 2018

casparian wrote: »

WhoThenNow7 wrote: »

Wings doesn't give snare immunity, though. It just removes them.

Check the patch notes

This

DeadlyRecluse · July 2018

Asmael wrote: »

Wings counter mag sorc now?

Oh, yeah, forgot about Curse / Rune cage / Shock & resto heavies / Enchant procs / Meteor / Fury / Force Pulse / Soul Assault / Pets / atro / dbos / WoE / Mines / Streak.

Yeah, definitely, mag sorcs are completely defenseless against wings. A whole 1 ability from their usual combo gets countered, definitely we need to nerf wings because magicka sorcs are clearly struggling.

Wings USED to kind of hard counter (most) magsorcs (and some magNB builds) when the "meta sorc" was inferno staff+force pulse+crystal frags with curse thrown in for burst.

Now that wings have been nerfed a bit, pulse goes through them, and rune cage exists in it's current form, it's nowhere near a counter--but it takes common knowledge like 1.5 years to actually adjust to changes.

Thogard · July 2018

Oh hey it seems my sDK build is catching on

And here I was thinking I was the only sDK running wings. Good stuff

Grimhallow · July 2018

Wait nerf stam DK posts exist? Am I in Thieves Guild (wrecking blow/ leap) land? What happened?

Oh just snare removal? So Stam DKs are Op because they are the only class that can now run rally with heavy...

Oh ok. Sure.

Funny joke, my friend.

Urvoth · July 2018

Asmael wrote: »

Wings counter mag sorc now?

Oh, yeah, forgot about Curse / Rune cage / Shock & resto heavies / Enchant procs / Meteor / Fury / Force Pulse / Soul Assault / Pets / atro / dbos / WoE / Mines / Streak.

Yeah, definitely, mag sorcs are completely defenseless against wings. A whole 1 ability from their usual combo gets countered, definitely we need to nerf wings because magicka sorcs are clearly struggling.

Rune Cage is currently the the only class ability that can really counter Wings. Heavy attacks, enchants, meteor, force pulse, soul assault, dawnbreaker, and WoE(don't know why you even mentioned this, no one in their right mind would use this for PvP) are all non-class abilities that aren't at all specific to magsorc.

Curse is great but isn't going to kill anything by itself, and thus really needs to hit alongside other skills. Like Curse, Fury is a great skill but the target has to go into execute range for it to do anything. Pets are mediocre at best in PvP, and using them takes 2 bar slots per pet, which are better used on other utility skills. Mines are basically defensive and sure they can stop you getting rushed, but they aren't going to kill anything, let alone a DK. Streak is the only other class skill that can somewhat counter Wings, but it is increasingly expensive, requires you to be in melee range, and only stuns for 1.5 seconds, so is really not a great counterplay option.

ItsNebula · July 2018

Thogard wrote: »

Oh hey it seems my sDK build is catching on

And here I was thinking I was the only sDK running wings. Good stuff

YOURE THE ONE THAT STARTED THIS MESS!?!?

xD

KingLogix · July 2018

ItsNebula wrote: »

KingLogix wrote: »

Wings cost to much on stam dk Between fragmented/igneous > Volitile/hardened armor stam dk does not have enough magic sustain to make wings a "threat" to any mag classes. You dont have to worry lol... the stam dk will still suck. Wings can be casted about 2 times in a row. If any stam dk cast wings 2x in a row, they are most likely a dead stam dk. Igneous and volitile are more important.

You would be surprised.

Ive fought a few StamDK's that can manage to keep wings up with about 70% up time.
Smartest idea would be to run a infused jewelry with a mag recov. Leap is cheap, so magicka isnt a problem.
Volitile is a pretty long buff, so you can easily regen up.

I have been a stam dk main since the beginning, and have NOT jumped on the mag sorc train. I can tell you that having wings up 70% is not ideal considering most stam DK's run 10-11k stam.

If I were to change my jewerly from robust/WD to infused/mag regen, that would be a bigger nerf to me then all the nerfs we have had so far... lol.. Lets be practical, ok?

Noxious is a clunky way to pull NBs out of cloak, so stam dks that STILL play this class, know that volitile is a decent magic dump considering its our most effective way to pull NB's out of cloak(Dont you dare say detect pots, I pop stam/speed/immovables or lingering speed pots only)

Igneous is being hit as much as dark deal is being hit on a stam sorc.

this post is not needed.. and is not a relevant issue... For every 1 stam dk there is in pvp, there are 30 mag sorcs..

Wing · July 2018

ItsNebula wrote: »

Smartest idea would be to run a infused jewelry with a mag recov.

WAIT WHAT?

are you suggesting stam DK to run magicka recovery enchants??

i always give everyone the benefit of the doubt until they say or do something to prove me otherwise, this was that point, sorry :C

ItsNebula · July 2018

KingLogix wrote: »

ItsNebula wrote: »

KingLogix wrote: »

Wings cost to much on stam dk Between fragmented/igneous > Volitile/hardened armor stam dk does not have enough magic sustain to make wings a "threat" to any mag classes. You dont have to worry lol... the stam dk will still suck. Wings can be casted about 2 times in a row. If any stam dk cast wings 2x in a row, they are most likely a dead stam dk. Igneous and volitile are more important.

You would be surprised.

Ive fought a few StamDK's that can manage to keep wings up with about 70% up time.
Smartest idea would be to run a infused jewelry with a mag recov. Leap is cheap, so magicka isnt a problem.
Volitile is a pretty long buff, so you can easily regen up.

I have been a stam dk main since the beginning, and have NOT jumped on the mag sorc train. I can tell you that having wings up 70% is not ideal considering most stam DK's run 10-11k stam.

If I were to change my jewerly from robust/WD to infused/mag regen, that would be a bigger nerf to me then all the nerfs we have had so far... lol.. Lets be practical, ok?

Noxious is a clunky way to pull NBs out of cloak, so stam dks that STILL play this class, know that volitile is a decent magic dump considering its our most effective way to pull NB's out of cloak(Dont you dare say detect pots, I pop stam/speed/immovables or lingering speed pots only)

Igneous is being hit as much as dark deal is being hit on a stam sorc.

this post is not needed.. and is not a relevant issue... For every 1 stam dk there is in pvp, there are 30 mag sorcs..

And of those 30 MagSorcs, any decent player can kill 29 of them in just a few seconds. That 1 of the 30 is the MagSorc thats actually good, deals dmg, has perfected the combo, can sustain, tanky and can take on multiple opponents at once.

StamDK's are MagBlades biggest counter, harder of a counter than MagSorcs are. EVERY skill a MagBlade uses (Dont say go Melee MagBlade... its dog s'it.) can be reflected by a DK.. theres a reason MagBlades dont even try to duel MagDK's with wings in duels. Waste of time.

Steel tornado is a bigger counter to NB's than Vol. armor is, and DW is pretty much the meta now this patch since Steel isnt dodgeable. VERY few people still do 2h/Snb or 2h/bow. DW is in about 90% of Stam Users gear.
Igneous doesnt need to be popped as often as you say it does.

ItsNebula · July 2018

Wing wrote: »

ItsNebula wrote: »

Smartest idea would be to run a infused jewelry with a mag recov.

WAIT WHAT?

are you suggesting stam DK to run magicka recovery enchants??

i always give everyone the benefit of the doubt until they say or do something to prove me otherwise, this was that point, sorry :C

All of my Stam toons that have a good handful of Mag skills runs a infused neck with mag recov... StamBlade has 1044 mag Recov, 2.3k stam recov, 34k Stam and can go up to 3.8k wep dmg. I can pop fear and cloak much, much more often than most StamBlades can.