New Player Complaint

bonesinthekeel · July 2018

I have not done an MMO in a few years and recently saw the morrowwind warden class. So thought to myself why not give ESO a try. I clicked buy in the morrowind area and it took me to the summerset standard edition. After looking through the product choices I noticed standard comes with morrowind. My assumption at that point was that summerset has standard so I would get morrowind. After buying I quickly found that not to be the case. What the %$#$? Different versions of standard?

So now im stuck on how to proceed. Expensive DLC or just buy the "Other Standard".

kind of a bad way to start a game imho...

Bones

OGLezard · July 2018

Morrowind comes with the cheap subscription fee. So do all other dlcs. Summerset would be the only thing you would need to buy.

Ghanima_Atreides · July 2018

Summerset had Morrowind included in the purchase as a preorder bonus, but that is no longer available.

There is also a difference between Chapter (which is currently Summerset) and DLC (which are all the rest, including Morrowind although it was last year's Chapter). Chapters must be bought separately and are, for all intents and purposes, the current version of the "base game". DLC can be purchased with Crowns from the in-game Crown Store or unlocked automatically by subscribing (although you lose access if you stop subbing without buying them permanently).

If you just want the Warden class, that is a separate purchase in the Crown Store as well, under Upgrades - Class.

NOTE that purchasing the Morrowind DLC alone does not grant you access to the Warden class, it must be bought separately. They used to be sold together when Morrowind was the current Chapter but that is no longer so now that it has been demoted to DLC status. Presumably this is due to the fact that subscribers who don't own a "hard copy" of Morrowind would lose access to that character if they stopped subscribing.

jkolb2030 · July 2018

What everyone else has said - the new "base game" includes Morrowind at the time of purchase, but not Summerset.

Buying the Summerset chapter by itself, does not include Morrowind...

I'm not going to lie, I agree with you in that this is a very confusing marketing model - yet it is rather normal in most of the bigger time MMOs.

bonesinthekeel · July 2018

Thank you for your response. Unfortunately it just angered me even further.

A company has a certain responsibility to make things clear when you buy something. Especially when it comes to new players. When its not clear you end up with unhappy folks.

This feels an awful like a bait and switch... not to mention a money grab.

At this point I'm just going to cut my losses and play what I purchased. No sub. No DLC. I just cannot see giving money to a company that does business this way. I do except my end ( should have done more research ).

Bones

Ghanima_Atreides wrote: »

Summerset had Morrowind included in the purchase as a preorder bonus, but that is no longer available.

There is also a difference between Chapter (which is currently Summerset) and DLC (which are all the rest, including Morrowind although it was last year's Chapter). Chapters must be bought separately and are, for all intents and purposes, the current version of the "base game". DLC can be purchased with Crowns from the in-game Crown Store or unlocked automatically by subscribing (although you lose access if you stop subbing without buying them permanently).

If you just want the Warden class, that is a separate purchase in the Crown Store as well, under Upgrades - Class.

NOTE that purchasing the Morrowind DLC alone does not grant you access to the Warden class, it must be bought separately. They used to be sold together when Morrowind was the current Chapter but that is no longer so now that it has been demoted to DLC status. Presumably this is due to the fact that subscribers who don't own a "hard copy" of Morrowind would lose access to that character if they stopped subscribing.

Tandor · July 2018

bonesinthekeel wrote: »

Thank you for your response. Unfortunately it just angered me even further.

A company has a certain responsibility to make things clear when you buy something. Especially when it comes to new players. When its not clear you end up with unhappy folks.

This feels an awful like a bait and switch... not to mention a money grab.

At this point I'm just going to cut my losses and play what I purchased. No sub. No DLC. I just cannot see giving money to a company that does business this way. I do except my end ( should have done more research ).

Bones

Ghanima_Atreides wrote: »

Summerset had Morrowind included in the purchase as a preorder bonus, but that is no longer available.

There is also a difference between Chapter (which is currently Summerset) and DLC (which are all the rest, including Morrowind although it was last year's Chapter). Chapters must be bought separately and are, for all intents and purposes, the current version of the "base game". DLC can be purchased with Crowns from the in-game Crown Store or unlocked automatically by subscribing (although you lose access if you stop subbing without buying them permanently).

If you just want the Warden class, that is a separate purchase in the Crown Store as well, under Upgrades - Class.

NOTE that purchasing the Morrowind DLC alone does not grant you access to the Warden class, it must be bought separately. They used to be sold together when Morrowind was the current Chapter but that is no longer so now that it has been demoted to DLC status. Presumably this is due to the fact that subscribers who don't own a "hard copy" of Morrowind would lose access to that character if they stopped subscribing.

My advice would be not to miss out on stuff because of a failure to understand the way most long-term MMOs operate. The normal model is for a new expansion/chapter/call it what you will is always bought separately while when such a new expansion etc is launched the base game is expanded to include most or all of the previous updates no matter what form they took. In that way as a new player you are actually getting exceptional value for money compared to those veterans who have played from the beginning and paid one way or another for all the updates you're getting included in the base game. That applies even if you have to buy either Morrowind or just the Warden class because you missed the pre-release offer on Summerset (again, such offers are common these days).

Nestor · July 2018

Yes the Rules of Fizbin have Invaded the ESO Marketing Model.

Just wait until you try to start a character in Vvardenfell or any of the Original Starter zones. Hint, your going to be dumped into Summerset and will have to make your way to the area you want to start in. Which, come to think of it, is not really explained in the game.

Lysette · July 2018

Nestor wrote: »

Yes the Rules of Fizbin have Invaded the ESO Marketing Model.

Just wait until you try to start a character in Vvardenfell or any of the Original Starter zones. Hint, your going to be dumped into Summerset and will have to make your way to the area you want to start in. Which, come to think of it, is not really explained in the game.

Not just that, to enter the main storyline you don't have to ignore a request from a "hooded figure", which does not really seem to be important at all. If you don't follow her request, there is no access to the main storyline. This is as well bs.

The_Old_Goat · July 2018

If it bothers you, think about all the people who bought Vvardenfell when it came out and now they're giving it away.

Aliyavana · July 2018

chainlink01 wrote: »

If it bothers you, think about all the people who bought Vvardenfell when it came out and now they're giving it away.

Mmo veterans know that that is the standard in mmos when a new expansion comes out

stewhead2ub17_ESO · July 2018

The mistake was yours. You made an inaccurate assumption. That said, don't get discouraged by your bumpy start. ESO is a fantastic MMO and I think you will enjoy yourself immensely. So much to like here. Welcome to Tamriel!

bonesinthekeel · July 2018

To be honest... This has been a huge cluster ^%#$ from the beginning. From getting my PC through the IP block and having to wait days for forum access. Then came the purchase fiasco without the class I wanted to play.

From there its been a lot of head scratching...

I have been playing MMO's since 98 with EQ. Played most of the big ones.

ESO feels like its a whole bunch of fragments put together and often not very well. But then im still learning.

I don't think its my cup of tea... Main complaint is the dual weapon bar skill system. Clunky unless you cheat and macro the crap out of it. Why put something in place thats so easy to bypass? Makes no sense...

Bones

Lysette · July 2018

Aliyavana wrote: »

chainlink01 wrote: »

If it bothers you, think about all the people who bought Vvardenfell when it came out and now they're giving it away.

Mmo veterans know that that is the standard in mmos when a new expansion comes out

I bought it just a bit before it was given for free with Summerset - but things like that happen in MMOs and not just that. Think of how many games one might have bought at full price and a bit later was a sale with 50% or more off. It's unfortunate, but it happens. Still, I am enjoying Vvardenfell, it is well worth it for me.

stewhead2ub17_ESO · July 2018

@bonesinthekeel my advice is to leave your previous MMO expectations at the door.ESO does quite a few things differently. After the initial WTF response you may find that you like it better. As an aside, my wife and I are long time MMO players also starting with EQ back in '99 and we both really dig ESO.

Lysette · July 2018

Maybe we should give the advice to go for ESO+ membership. Otherwise he will be struggling with inventory issues rather quickly and eventually not have fun with the game.

AlnilamE · July 2018

stewhead2ub17_ESO wrote: »

The mistake was yours. You made an inaccurate assumption. That said, don't get discouraged by your bumpy start. ESO is a fantastic MMO and I think you will enjoy yourself immensely. So much to like here. Welcome to Tamriel!

To be fair, the options on the store don't make it clear what does or doesn't come with the "ESO: Summerset" purchase. They could really work on that. Particularly since there is no way to buy "ESO: Morrowind" as a digital download anymore.

OP, I'm sorry for the bumpy start. Hopefully that's the last of it and you will find your way around and make yourself a home. :-)

Signed,

Someone who spent the Open Beta weekends complaining about how this wasn't Skyrim (what do you mean I don't have to craft arrows???)

Chicharron · July 2018

chainlink01 wrote: »

If it bothers you, think about all the people who bought Vvardenfell when it came out and now they're giving it away.

I preorder Morrowind and also pre order Summerset.

quests done in Morrowind: 0
quests done in Summerset: 0

I do not regret.

I think the people in charge of the communication are by far the worst... ever, but I like the game and I support it.

Gargath · July 2018

The solution is don't buy in pre-order. Never buy on release. Wait half a year and buy when it gets old, or is on sale. I do it all the time and it's much more profitable with lower chance for disappointment.

I also think Summerset should be covered by ESO+. While I bought and played a lot in Vvardenfell to meet the past feelings from when I was playing it 15 years ago, I will probably never buy Summerset - the story, area, quests and skills, all are dull to me, copy pasted from other maps, not worth money they charge.
Hope the Murkmire will not share same bad feelings - and that we'll get the spears.

Ghanima_Atreides · July 2018

bonesinthekeel wrote: »

I don't think its my cup of tea... Main complaint is the dual weapon bar skill system. Clunky unless you cheat and macro the crap out of it. Why put something in place thats so easy to bypass? Makes no sense...

Bones

You get used to it. ESO has a very dynamic combat system without cooldowns and skill combinations have to be swift and often precise.

Also, I wouldn't try macroing anything - it is against the TOS and can get you banned.

bonesinthekeel · July 2018

Ghanima_Atreides wrote: »

bonesinthekeel wrote: »

I don't think its my cup of tea... Main complaint is the dual weapon bar skill system. Clunky unless you cheat and macro the crap out of it. Why put something in place thats so easy to bypass? Makes no sense...

Bones

You get used to it. ESO has a very dynamic combat system without cooldowns and skill combinations have to be swift and often precise.

Also, I wouldn't try macroing anything - it is against the TOS and can get you banned.

I would be willing to bet at least 70% if not more of eso players are using gaming keyboards and mice. And with that said the ability to macro out commands.

By dynamic you mean twitchy... And nothing is as twitchy as a gaming mouse or keyboard and the software that comes with it.

Every company talks the talk when it comes to macro's. But money wins out every time.

From a logistical stand point it would be very hard to prove your running a keyboard/mouse macro. lag alone would create havoc on any detection programs not to mention the overhead.

Bones

Unfadingsilence · July 2018

bonesinthekeel wrote: »

Ghanima_Atreides wrote: »

bonesinthekeel wrote: »

I don't think its my cup of tea... Main complaint is the dual weapon bar skill system. Clunky unless you cheat and macro the crap out of it. Why put something in place thats so easy to bypass? Makes no sense...

Bones

You get used to it. ESO has a very dynamic combat system without cooldowns and skill combinations have to be swift and often precise.

Also, I wouldn't try macroing anything - it is against the TOS and can get you banned.

I would be willing to bet at least 70% if not more of eso players are using gaming keyboards and mice. And with that said the ability to macro out commands.

By dynamic you mean twitchy... And nothing is as twitchy as a gaming mouse or keyboard and the software that comes with it.

Every company talks the talk when it comes to macro's. But money wins out every time.

From a logistical stand point it would be very hard to prove your running a keyboard/mouse macro. lag alone would create havoc on any detection programs not to mention the overhead.

Bones

Xbox NA here and nope not using a keyboard or anything just a regular xbox elite controller and you will get use to the setup and every game after your done with this game depending on how much time you put into it. You will continue to try and play how it's set up for ESO but that's coming from someone who's played this game for over 15k hours and has 15 max lvl toons with over 1000 CP..

bonesinthekeel · July 2018

Unfadingsilence wrote: »

bonesinthekeel wrote: »

Ghanima_Atreides wrote: »

bonesinthekeel wrote: »

I don't think its my cup of tea... Main complaint is the dual weapon bar skill system. Clunky unless you cheat and macro the crap out of it. Why put something in place thats so easy to bypass? Makes no sense...

Bones

You get used to it. ESO has a very dynamic combat system without cooldowns and skill combinations have to be swift and often precise.

Also, I wouldn't try macroing anything - it is against the TOS and can get you banned.

I would be willing to bet at least 70% if not more of eso players are using gaming keyboards and mice. And with that said the ability to macro out commands.

By dynamic you mean twitchy... And nothing is as twitchy as a gaming mouse or keyboard and the software that comes with it.

Every company talks the talk when it comes to macro's. But money wins out every time.

From a logistical stand point it would be very hard to prove your running a keyboard/mouse macro. lag alone would create havoc on any detection programs not to mention the overhead.

Bones

Xbox NA here and nope not using a keyboard or anything just a regular xbox elite controller and you will get use to the setup and every game after your done with this game depending on how much time you put into it. You will continue to try and play how it's set up for ESO but that's coming from someone who's played this game for over 15k hours and has 15 max lvl toons with over 1000 CP..

Don't get me started on the controller thing... Thats an industry thats rampant with cheaters. I used to do IT for one of the bigger controller companies. Some of the custom stuff being done was down right scary.

Walking into the game I decided to get the combat down right off the bat. Doing Magsorc and its pretty much cake. Round up a bunch of mobs and AOE them down. Not too much of a challenge when you can heal yourself and strafe to avoid damage.

Still a bit clunky.

LittlePinkDot · July 2018

bonesinthekeel wrote: »

To be honest... This has been a huge cluster ^%#$ from the beginning. From getting my PC through the IP block and having to wait days for forum access. Then came the purchase fiasco without the class I wanted to play.

From there its been a lot of head scratching...

I have been playing MMO's since 98 with EQ. Played most of the big ones.

ESO feels like its a whole bunch of fragments put together and often not very well. But then im still learning.

I don't think its my cup of tea... Main complaint is the dual weapon bar skill system. Clunky unless you cheat and macro the crap out of it. Why put something in place thats so easy to bypass? Makes no sense...

Bones

Keep in mind this game is also on consoles. Bar swapping is easy with my controller.
Stamina warden is fun and good for pvp. Magicka warden is not in a good place right now.

Riptide · July 2018

Just relax, and think a trifle less of your own assumptions. You’ve made quite a number of bad ones in this thread.

I assure you, any goober who tries to “macro” himself through the hardest content - VMA etc is going to feel a fool.

I’ve been around since. BBS/Muds. Beta tested Ultima Online and the big ones - including this one. It was built with consoles in mind from day 1. The addons they brought us in during the alpha to do, or to start anyway. You must unlearn what you have learned.

Overland fighting is easy mode. There is content here that is actually challenging and relies on dynamic rotations.

It is worth it. There will be more frustrations. They’re worth it.

But shrug, if you’re stubborn and don’t sub the lack of craft bag alone will be enough to confirm your bias and you’ll roll to summat else.

bonesinthekeel · July 2018

Riptide wrote: »

Just relax, and think a trifle less of your own assumptions. You’ve made quite a number of bad ones in this thread.

I assure you, any goober who tries to “macro” himself through the hardest content - VMA etc is going to feel a fool.

I’ve been around since. BBS/Muds. Beta tested Ultima Online and the big ones - including this one. It was built with consoles in mind from day 1. The addons they brought us in during the alpha to do, or to start anyway. You must unlearn what you have learned.

Overland fighting is easy mode. There is content here that is actually challenging and relies on dynamic rotations.

It is worth it. There will be more frustrations. They’re worth it.

But shrug, if you’re stubborn and don’t sub the lack of craft bag alone will be enough to confirm your bias and you’ll roll to summat else.

No worries... going to play around with it here and there. Few hours a day. If I get used to the bar swap great... If not its not a biggie.

Most of my game time these days is POE. Been there since beta. I keep looking for something else but it always ends up being boring. When your used to constant action its hard to slow down to MMO speed.

In the last few years have tried the new FFXIV, Rift and BDO. All snooze fests.

Games I really liked were EQ, FFXI and ryzom. Loved the more dangerous gaming environments and punishment when you screwed up. The newer MMO's just feel a bit soft.

I purchased it so may as well try some classes out...

bonesinthekeel · July 2018

I cannot take it anymore lol... I lasted 6 days. Shortest time I have ever spent in an MMO and the only time I have failed to at least max level a char.

The combat system is just not doable... Its like walking around with a rock in your shoe.

The dual bar system is just clunky. The animation cancelling annoying. The animations themselves are often poor at best. loads of basic features missing ( Pet health bars anyone? not npc bars but bars you can easily see and use ). Between the animation cancelling and the lag your often left wondering if you actually completed an action. Movement and objects are often clunky.

It blows me away when you see how beautiful and well designed the world is and the amount of content then compare that to the combat system.

The community is great and I don't see alot of the crap you see on other forums.

Lack of an auction house. I will never again complain about Path Of Exiles forum indexed trade system... Yes I did look at the player vendors. Really? Thats a trade system? joining a guild just to get gear seems wrong...

Anyways... Thanks for the reply's. I wish you all luck.

Bones

The_Lex · July 2018

Nestor wrote: »

Yes the Rules of Fizbin have Invaded the ESO Marketing Model.

Just wait until you try to start a character in Vvardenfell or any of the Original Starter zones. Hint, your going to be dumped into Summerset and will have to make your way to the area you want to start in. Which, come to think of it, is not really explained in the game.

I wonder how many people get the Fizbin reference. lol

idk · July 2018

OGLezard wrote: »

Morrowind comes with the cheap subscription fee. So do all other dlcs. Summerset would be the only thing you would need to buy.

This does not answer what OP is looking for. He was not looking for Morrwind but for the Warden Class

@bonesinthekeel Warden class can only be purchased via the crown store now. It is under Upgrades > Class.

Morrowind will not grant you the Warden Class anymore since it is just a DLC now.

As for the last post, the combat system has worked fine for over 4 years though some that come from games like WoW and SWTOR have a challenge getting used to it. Being you gave it less than a week it is not surprising you are challenged with it. As for lag, I rarely experience lag in PvE.

Azuramoonstar · July 2018

AlnilamE wrote: »

stewhead2ub17_ESO wrote: »

The mistake was yours. You made an inaccurate assumption. That said, don't get discouraged by your bumpy start. ESO is a fantastic MMO and I think you will enjoy yourself immensely. So much to like here. Welcome to Tamriel!

To be fair, the options on the store don't make it clear what does or doesn't come with the "ESO: Summerset" purchase. They could really work on that. Particularly since there is no way to buy "ESO: Morrowind" as a digital download anymore.

OP, I'm sorry for the bumpy start. Hopefully that's the last of it and you will find your way around and make yourself a home. :-)

Signed,

Someone who spent the Open Beta weekends complaining about how this wasn't Skyrim (what do you mean I don't have to craft arrows???)

i bought eso on psn store and they say it very clearly what comes with what. What happens more often then not is people don't read thoughly click stuff then get upset they made the wrong choice, then blame the seller.

Azuramoonstar · July 2018

bonesinthekeel wrote: »

I cannot take it anymore lol... I lasted 6 days. Shortest time I have ever spent in an MMO and the only time I have failed to at least max level a char.

The combat system is just not doable... Its like walking around with a rock in your shoe.

The dual bar system is just clunky. The animation cancelling annoying. The animations themselves are often poor at best. loads of basic features missing ( Pet health bars anyone? not npc bars but bars you can easily see and use ). Between the animation cancelling and the lag your often left wondering if you actually completed an action. Movement and objects are often clunky.

It blows me away when you see how beautiful and well designed the world is and the amount of content then compare that to the combat system.

The community is great and I don't see alot of the crap you see on other forums.

Lack of an auction house. I will never again complain about Path Of Exiles forum indexed trade system... Yes I did look at the player vendors. Really? Thats a trade system? joining a guild just to get gear seems wrong...

Anyways... Thanks for the reply's. I wish you all luck.

Bones

you can make your own gear, trade npc are numerous and imo is better then the souless block AH/Mb.
You complain too much, and don't seem interested to learn. You just came in and trashed the MMO. 6 days, that isn't even trying an mmo out. -_-

bonesinthekeel · July 2018

Challenging? Not even close. Its a pretty simple combat system.

The combat system is clunky and annoying. A two bar system? That was needed? really? Makes it more cohesive or is it just an added burden that's completely unnecessary. Animation cancelling? Cannot fix that either? How about animations that match the combat speed?

There is no cohesive flow to combat. It feels unnatural. What I see on screen does not match what is happening. You just launched a skill it ends up getting canceled by a staff attack. Did it go off? Did it not?

It ends up screwing with your game play.

Im used to fast twitchy game play. This is not that.

idk wrote: »

OGLezard wrote: »

Morrowind comes with the cheap subscription fee. So do all other dlcs. Summerset would be the only thing you would need to buy.

This does not answer what OP is looking for. He was not looking for Morrwind but for the Warden Class

@bonesinthekeel Warden class can only be purchased via the crown store now. It is under Upgrades > Class.

Morrowind will not grant you the Warden Class anymore since it is just a DLC now.

As for the last post, the combat system has worked fine for over 4 years though some that come from games like WoW and SWTOR have a challenge getting used to it. Being you gave it less than a week it is not surprising you are challenged with it. As for lag, I rarely experience lag in PvE.