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Stamplar ravager set
-
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭[/quote]
That wasn't the Devs that decided this was bis/only way to run. That was the players.
Next patch it'll be another raid setup.[/quote]
If you walk into a car garage and you can choose any car for an upcoming race, you won't choose a Honda odyssey, you'll choose a Bugatti....the players that compete for the best score want to play the highest dps toons...its up to the devs to create a playing field where all classes are on par or at least have a role to play...0 -
What_In_Tarnation✭✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »What_In_Tarnation wrote: »If you have Arms of Relequen, go ravager or berserking warrior(yokeda). Both sets become really strong with relequen. And that's the reason why most of stamina builds in pve use selene set, too. Because relequen can help you proc all of the sets you wear.
But If you don't have Arms of Relequen, go veil heritance.
Why would Berserking Warrior become really strong paired with Relequen? Berserking is all about crit and Relequen can't crit.
Because relequen currently counts as "direct melee damage", which will proc AY.
Ok, but that has no effect when you already have full stacks which should be the majority of the time in most fights. I just don't think your uptime on full stacks is going to be much different with or without relequen.
Right and wrong at the same time, some fights you have to stay away from boss, which will make you can't even deal any direct melee damage (so it won't proc yokeda at all), but relequen make it so.
I mean relequen can easily help you maintain yokeda with full stacks in ranged while you can't even deal "real" melee direct damage. This is the exact reason why I just give away all of relequen pieces I got from CR runs, cause I really think it's gonna be changed soon, hope I'm wrong though.Edited by What_In_Tarnation on July 24, 2018 6:15PM0 -
DocFrost72✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »
That wasn't the Devs that decided this was bis/only way to run. That was the players.
Next patch it'll be another raid setup.
If you walk into a car garage and you can choose any car for an upcoming race, you won't choose a Honda odyssey, you'll choose a Bugatti....the players that compete for the best score want to play the highest dps toons...its up to the devs to create a playing field where all classes are on par or at least have a role to play...
And if the Bugatti runs at top speed 207mph and the Ferrari hits 206.5, will you still choose the Bugatti? In that scenario, is the only way to assure people pick the Ferrari to make all cars go the same speed exactly?
World score runs will take the milliseconds (and there's nothing wrong with that), but that Ferrari can compete in any race so long as the driver knows what he's doing.Edited by DocFrost72 on July 24, 2018 6:54PM0 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Veiled Heritance is literally within 2% of yokeda. Wouldn’t label it trash per se.Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Veiled Heritance is literally within 2% of yokeda. Wouldn’t label it trash per se.
see this post if you dont believe us, https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5282363/#Comment_5282363
Guys, I dont need to see the math...I use the set in trials...but since u want math
Armor of the Veiled Heritance Set
LEVEL 50 CHAMPION 160
(2 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(3 items) Adds 2975 Physical Resistance
(4 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(5 items) When you deal damage, you have a 10% to increase your Weapon Damage by 400 for 5 seconds.
Ravager Set
LEVEL 50 CHAMPION 160
(2 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(3 items) Adds 1206 Max Health
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(5 items) When you deal melee damage, you have an 8% chance to increase your Weapon Damage by 630 for 10 seconds. This effect can occur once every 10 seconds.
Lets say you get 100% uptime on Veiled Heritance (which you wont, but lets say you do) - thats 400 weapon damage. Ravager on a stamplar gets anywhere between 70-80% on my parses. Lets say I get a low end - 70% Thats 630 x .7 = 441 weapon damage. Ravager wins. On high uptime parses where i get 80+% it gives 630 x .8 = 504 wep damage. So Ravager is clearly better. And Yokeda is better than ravager....
You are comparing VH to rav, we never said that they were equal, we said advancing yokuda was practically equal to veiled heritance. Your big long post was for not.
Advancing Yokeda is around 1-2k DPS better than ravager and ravager is 2k+ dps better than Veiled Heritance...so im not sure how my post is not relevant.
It is not relevant for the reasons I stated, you were comparing the wrong sets, Now you need to show how that is possible. Math for VH vs AY. I showed where I get my math.
Do you have any parses?
Do you have a 6 mil parse with Veiled heritance?
Do you have boss fights?
No, but if you follow the link I gave already, @Masel92 does. Simple.
There are no parses...just numbers...its clearly an inferior set. In trials Advancing Yokeda is better than both Ravager and Veiled Heritance, because the weapon damage contribution is diminished. When things like Major Courage and PA are in the mix, they lower the contribution that sets like Ravager and Veiled Heritance. On the other hand advancing yokeda only gets stronger due to an increased Major Force Uptime.
These aren't "just numbers", I verified these calculations through ingame data. I even had a Combat Team Dev read through the post to check for mistakes.
You're right in terms of diminishing returns the more WD you have, but it is also true that you are overstating differences between the sets. Ravager is supposed to be 1-2k better than veiled? That doesn't make sense mathematically at all. Veiled gets a 85-90% uptime, while Ravager does not nearly reach that amount. Getting 60% on ravager is not easily done in most fights that aren't stack and burn like vAA. Ravager is also very unreliable, you'll often proc it when you're about to go to the back bar. It also currently procs off relequen, which will likely change soon, so you can expect your uptime to decrease. If you get that uptime without relequen, I'd be happy to see that in parses. Same holds for selenes, Which has become very popular because of that.
In cloudrest and asylum, I would definitely use veiled over ravager. The fact that your dots proc veiled, while they don't proc ravager is a huge advantage.
But again, the whole discussion is lacklustre, as these Sets are so close to each other that no-one will notice any difference. Every update people argue about these teeny tiny differences.
Have you played stamplar in trials man? No offense man, but I dont think you have. I've ran my stamplar in VCR/maw/craglorns. I have never gotten below 70% uptime on ravager. Asylum is a special case, and obviously different. As far as how good each set is and testing. I'm getting high 50k st with ravager, while other stamplars wearing yokeda are getting 60s, so yes there is a difference between those two sets. As far as its significance, that depends on who you ask. To me a 2k difference is significant. Veiled at 100% uptime is already worse than Ravager, so at lower percentages it is even more worse.
As far as combat devs go. The combat team let the current DLC go live where the bis raid team is 7 nightblades 1 sorc (only because of conduit). This is appalling and I have absolutely zero respect for them.
Yes I have, all trials with HM up to vCR +2. If you want to convince me, you'd have to deliver some sort of proof.
As far as the Dev team goes: I am on your side concerning the nb stack, it annoys me because I wanna play the class and spec I wanna play. Not what mechanics force on me.
I'll do adummDocFrost72 wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »
That wasn't the Devs that decided this was bis/only way to run. That was the players.
Next patch it'll be another raid setup.
If you walk into a car garage and you can choose any car for an upcoming race, you won't choose a Honda odyssey, you'll choose a Bugatti....the players that compete for the best score want to play the highest dps toons...its up to the devs to create a playing field where all classes are on par or at least have a role to play...
And if the Bugatti runs at top speed 207mph and the Ferrari hits 206.5, will you still choose the Bugatti? In that scenario, is the only way to assure people pick the Ferrari to make all cars go the same speed exactly?
World score runs will take the milliseconds (and there's nothing wrong with that), but that Ferrari can compete in any race so long as the driver knows what he's doing.
As someone mentioned above, when the difference is within the standard deviation then or doesnt matter. To be honest if the difference is 1k they are pretty much equivalent. On live the difference between stamblade and the next best class is 5k+. In such a situation it's clear that if you want to push score you need Nbs. What makes it worse is that the same thing is happening with magicka, where mnbs are 5k ahead. Add into it the fact that NBs have better sustain and defence and you clearly realize that the combat team is either severely unqualified or intentionally negligent.0 -
DocFrost72✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Veiled Heritance is literally within 2% of yokeda. Wouldn’t label it trash per se.Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Veiled Heritance is literally within 2% of yokeda. Wouldn’t label it trash per se.
see this post if you dont believe us, https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5282363/#Comment_5282363
Guys, I dont need to see the math...I use the set in trials...but since u want math
Armor of the Veiled Heritance Set
LEVEL 50 CHAMPION 160
(2 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(3 items) Adds 2975 Physical Resistance
(4 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(5 items) When you deal damage, you have a 10% to increase your Weapon Damage by 400 for 5 seconds.
Ravager Set
LEVEL 50 CHAMPION 160
(2 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(3 items) Adds 1206 Max Health
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(5 items) When you deal melee damage, you have an 8% chance to increase your Weapon Damage by 630 for 10 seconds. This effect can occur once every 10 seconds.
Lets say you get 100% uptime on Veiled Heritance (which you wont, but lets say you do) - thats 400 weapon damage. Ravager on a stamplar gets anywhere between 70-80% on my parses. Lets say I get a low end - 70% Thats 630 x .7 = 441 weapon damage. Ravager wins. On high uptime parses where i get 80+% it gives 630 x .8 = 504 wep damage. So Ravager is clearly better. And Yokeda is better than ravager....
You are comparing VH to rav, we never said that they were equal, we said advancing yokuda was practically equal to veiled heritance. Your big long post was for not.
Advancing Yokeda is around 1-2k DPS better than ravager and ravager is 2k+ dps better than Veiled Heritance...so im not sure how my post is not relevant.
It is not relevant for the reasons I stated, you were comparing the wrong sets, Now you need to show how that is possible. Math for VH vs AY. I showed where I get my math.
Do you have any parses?
Do you have a 6 mil parse with Veiled heritance?
Do you have boss fights?
No, but if you follow the link I gave already, @Masel92 does. Simple.
There are no parses...just numbers...its clearly an inferior set. In trials Advancing Yokeda is better than both Ravager and Veiled Heritance, because the weapon damage contribution is diminished. When things like Major Courage and PA are in the mix, they lower the contribution that sets like Ravager and Veiled Heritance. On the other hand advancing yokeda only gets stronger due to an increased Major Force Uptime.
These aren't "just numbers", I verified these calculations through ingame data. I even had a Combat Team Dev read through the post to check for mistakes.
You're right in terms of diminishing returns the more WD you have, but it is also true that you are overstating differences between the sets. Ravager is supposed to be 1-2k better than veiled? That doesn't make sense mathematically at all. Veiled gets a 85-90% uptime, while Ravager does not nearly reach that amount. Getting 60% on ravager is not easily done in most fights that aren't stack and burn like vAA. Ravager is also very unreliable, you'll often proc it when you're about to go to the back bar. It also currently procs off relequen, which will likely change soon, so you can expect your uptime to decrease. If you get that uptime without relequen, I'd be happy to see that in parses. Same holds for selenes, Which has become very popular because of that.
In cloudrest and asylum, I would definitely use veiled over ravager. The fact that your dots proc veiled, while they don't proc ravager is a huge advantage.
But again, the whole discussion is lacklustre, as these Sets are so close to each other that no-one will notice any difference. Every update people argue about these teeny tiny differences.
Have you played stamplar in trials man? No offense man, but I dont think you have. I've ran my stamplar in VCR/maw/craglorns. I have never gotten below 70% uptime on ravager. Asylum is a special case, and obviously different. As far as how good each set is and testing. I'm getting high 50k st with ravager, while other stamplars wearing yokeda are getting 60s, so yes there is a difference between those two sets. As far as its significance, that depends on who you ask. To me a 2k difference is significant. Veiled at 100% uptime is already worse than Ravager, so at lower percentages it is even more worse.
As far as combat devs go. The combat team let the current DLC go live where the bis raid team is 7 nightblades 1 sorc (only because of conduit). This is appalling and I have absolutely zero respect for them.
Yes I have, all trials with HM up to vCR +2. If you want to convince me, you'd have to deliver some sort of proof.
As far as the Dev team goes: I am on your side concerning the nb stack, it annoys me because I wanna play the class and spec I wanna play. Not what mechanics force on me.
I'll do adummDocFrost72 wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »
That wasn't the Devs that decided this was bis/only way to run. That was the players.
Next patch it'll be another raid setup.
If you walk into a car garage and you can choose any car for an upcoming race, you won't choose a Honda odyssey, you'll choose a Bugatti....the players that compete for the best score want to play the highest dps toons...its up to the devs to create a playing field where all classes are on par or at least have a role to play...
And if the Bugatti runs at top speed 207mph and the Ferrari hits 206.5, will you still choose the Bugatti? In that scenario, is the only way to assure people pick the Ferrari to make all cars go the same speed exactly?
World score runs will take the milliseconds (and there's nothing wrong with that), but that Ferrari can compete in any race so long as the driver knows what he's doing.
As someone mentioned above, when the difference is within the standard deviation then or doesnt matter. To be honest if the difference is 1k they are pretty much equivalent. On live the difference between stamblade and the next best class is 5k+. In such a situation it's clear that if you want to push score you need Nbs. What makes it worse is that the same thing is happening with magicka, where mnbs are 5k ahead. Add into it the fact that NBs have better sustain and defence and you clearly realize that the combat team is either severely unqualified or intentionally negligent.
Target dummy, or raid scenario? I'm not being cute I genuinely don't know the dps ceiling this patch, but it certainly wasn't like this previous patch.
Return to my TL;DR Above. There's no way in hell the team can quantify the effects of adding 8 sets, changing how key abilities work, and adding new content the same way millions of players can.
Now if this goes on for a long while, then we have an issue. And 6 months is not a long while either- remember the reign of stamdks? (I know you were raiding then).
If NB are parsing high, you need to lower the competitive ceiling while not f#&*ing over the floor, and not ruin pvp. It's not exactly high school algebra they're working with.Edited by DocFrost72 on July 24, 2018 7:15PM0 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭DocFrost72 wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Veiled Heritance is literally within 2% of yokeda. Wouldn’t label it trash per se.Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Veiled Heritance is literally within 2% of yokeda. Wouldn’t label it trash per se.
see this post if you dont believe us, https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5282363/#Comment_5282363
Guys, I dont need to see the math...I use the set in trials...but since u want math
Armor of the Veiled Heritance Set
LEVEL 50 CHAMPION 160
(2 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(3 items) Adds 2975 Physical Resistance
(4 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(5 items) When you deal damage, you have a 10% to increase your Weapon Damage by 400 for 5 seconds.
Ravager Set
LEVEL 50 CHAMPION 160
(2 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(3 items) Adds 1206 Max Health
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(5 items) When you deal melee damage, you have an 8% chance to increase your Weapon Damage by 630 for 10 seconds. This effect can occur once every 10 seconds.
Lets say you get 100% uptime on Veiled Heritance (which you wont, but lets say you do) - thats 400 weapon damage. Ravager on a stamplar gets anywhere between 70-80% on my parses. Lets say I get a low end - 70% Thats 630 x .7 = 441 weapon damage. Ravager wins. On high uptime parses where i get 80+% it gives 630 x .8 = 504 wep damage. So Ravager is clearly better. And Yokeda is better than ravager....
You are comparing VH to rav, we never said that they were equal, we said advancing yokuda was practically equal to veiled heritance. Your big long post was for not.
Advancing Yokeda is around 1-2k DPS better than ravager and ravager is 2k+ dps better than Veiled Heritance...so im not sure how my post is not relevant.
It is not relevant for the reasons I stated, you were comparing the wrong sets, Now you need to show how that is possible. Math for VH vs AY. I showed where I get my math.
Do you have any parses?
Do you have a 6 mil parse with Veiled heritance?
Do you have boss fights?
No, but if you follow the link I gave already, @Masel92 does. Simple.
There are no parses...just numbers...its clearly an inferior set. In trials Advancing Yokeda is better than both Ravager and Veiled Heritance, because the weapon damage contribution is diminished. When things like Major Courage and PA are in the mix, they lower the contribution that sets like Ravager and Veiled Heritance. On the other hand advancing yokeda only gets stronger due to an increased Major Force Uptime.
These aren't "just numbers", I verified these calculations through ingame data. I even had a Combat Team Dev read through the post to check for mistakes.
You're right in terms of diminishing returns the more WD you have, but it is also true that you are overstating differences between the sets. Ravager is supposed to be 1-2k better than veiled? That doesn't make sense mathematically at all. Veiled gets a 85-90% uptime, while Ravager does not nearly reach that amount. Getting 60% on ravager is not easily done in most fights that aren't stack and burn like vAA. Ravager is also very unreliable, you'll often proc it when you're about to go to the back bar. It also currently procs off relequen, which will likely change soon, so you can expect your uptime to decrease. If you get that uptime without relequen, I'd be happy to see that in parses. Same holds for selenes, Which has become very popular because of that.
In cloudrest and asylum, I would definitely use veiled over ravager. The fact that your dots proc veiled, while they don't proc ravager is a huge advantage.
But again, the whole discussion is lacklustre, as these Sets are so close to each other that no-one will notice any difference. Every update people argue about these teeny tiny differences.
Have you played stamplar in trials man? No offense man, but I dont think you have. I've ran my stamplar in VCR/maw/craglorns. I have never gotten below 70% uptime on ravager. Asylum is a special case, and obviously different. As far as how good each set is and testing. I'm getting high 50k st with ravager, while other stamplars wearing yokeda are getting 60s, so yes there is a difference between those two sets. As far as its significance, that depends on who you ask. To me a 2k difference is significant. Veiled at 100% uptime is already worse than Ravager, so at lower percentages it is even more worse.
As far as combat devs go. The combat team let the current DLC go live where the bis raid team is 7 nightblades 1 sorc (only because of conduit). This is appalling and I have absolutely zero respect for them.
Yes I have, all trials with HM up to vCR +2. If you want to convince me, you'd have to deliver some sort of proof.
As far as the Dev team goes: I am on your side concerning the nb stack, it annoys me because I wanna play the class and spec I wanna play. Not what mechanics force on me.
I'll do adummDocFrost72 wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »
That wasn't the Devs that decided this was bis/only way to run. That was the players.
Next patch it'll be another raid setup.
If you walk into a car garage and you can choose any car for an upcoming race, you won't choose a Honda odyssey, you'll choose a Bugatti....the players that compete for the best score want to play the highest dps toons...its up to the devs to create a playing field where all classes are on par or at least have a role to play...
And if the Bugatti runs at top speed 207mph and the Ferrari hits 206.5, will you still choose the Bugatti? In that scenario, is the only way to assure people pick the Ferrari to make all cars go the same speed exactly?
World score runs will take the milliseconds (and there's nothing wrong with that), but that Ferrari can compete in any race so long as the driver knows what he's doing.
As someone mentioned above, when the difference is within the standard deviation then or doesnt matter. To be honest if the difference is 1k they are pretty much equivalent. On live the difference between stamblade and the next best class is 5k+. In such a situation it's clear that if you want to push score you need Nbs. What makes it worse is that the same thing is happening with magicka, where mnbs are 5k ahead. Add into it the fact that NBs have better sustain and defence and you clearly realize that the combat team is either severely unqualified or intentionally negligent.
Target dummy, or raid scenario? I'm not being cute I genuinely don't know the dps ceiling this patch, but it certainly wasn't like this previous patch.
Return to my TL;DR Above. There's no way in hell the team can quantify the effects of adding 8 sets, changing how key abilities work, and adding new content the same way millions of players can.
Now if this goes on for a long while, then we have an issue. And 6 months is not a long while either- remember the reign of stamdks? (I know you were raiding then).
If NB are parsing high, you need to lower the competitive ceiling while not f#&*ing over the floor, and not ruin pvp. It's not exactly high school algebra they're working with.
Last night in Maw on my stamplar I'm doing 58k ST. All the stamblades are pulling 65k+ ST. All the magblades are 55-60k ST.
Nightblades have been meta since Clockwork city and yes each class HAS BEEN dominant at one point or another (except wardens). But that's not good. There is no reason why they cant adjust things in a noninvasive way. For example - decrease impale/killers blade damage by 15%. Decrease Merciless/Relentless arrow proc damage by 15%. Just this alone would help bridge the gap.0 -
IZZEFlameLash✭✭✭✭✭
✭DocFrost72 wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »DocFrost72 wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »
As far as combat devs go. The combat team let the current DLC go live where the bis raid team is 7 nightblades 1 sorc (only because of conduit). This is appalling and I have absolutely zero respect for them.hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Veiled Heritance is literally within 2% of yokeda. Wouldn’t label it trash per se.Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Veiled Heritance is literally within 2% of yokeda. Wouldn’t label it trash per se.
see this post if you dont believe us, https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5282363/#Comment_5282363
Guys, I dont need to see the math...I use the set in trials...but since u want math
Armor of the Veiled Heritance Set
LEVEL 50 CHAMPION 160
(2 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(3 items) Adds 2975 Physical Resistance
(4 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(5 items) When you deal damage, you have a 10% to increase your Weapon Damage by 400 for 5 seconds.
Ravager Set
LEVEL 50 CHAMPION 160
(2 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(3 items) Adds 1206 Max Health
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(5 items) When you deal melee damage, you have an 8% chance to increase your Weapon Damage by 630 for 10 seconds. This effect can occur once every 10 seconds.
Lets say you get 100% uptime on Veiled Heritance (which you wont, but lets say you do) - thats 400 weapon damage. Ravager on a stamplar gets anywhere between 70-80% on my parses. Lets say I get a low end - 70% Thats 630 x .7 = 441 weapon damage. Ravager wins. On high uptime parses where i get 80+% it gives 630 x .8 = 504 wep damage. So Ravager is clearly better. And Yokeda is better than ravager....
You are comparing VH to rav, we never said that they were equal, we said advancing yokuda was practically equal to veiled heritance. Your big long post was for not.
Advancing Yokeda is around 1-2k DPS better than ravager and ravager is 2k+ dps better than Veiled Heritance...so im not sure how my post is not relevant.
It is not relevant for the reasons I stated, you were comparing the wrong sets, Now you need to show how that is possible. Math for VH vs AY. I showed where I get my math.
Do you have any parses?
Do you have a 6 mil parse with Veiled heritance?
Do you have boss fights?
No, but if you follow the link I gave already, @Masel92 does. Simple.
There are no parses...just numbers...its clearly an inferior set. In trials Advancing Yokeda is better than both Ravager and Veiled Heritance, because the weapon damage contribution is diminished. When things like Major Courage and PA are in the mix, they lower the contribution that sets like Ravager and Veiled Heritance. On the other hand advancing yokeda only gets stronger due to an increased Major Force Uptime.
These aren't "just numbers", I verified these calculations through ingame data. I even had a Combat Team Dev read through the post to check for mistakes.
You're right in terms of diminishing returns the more WD you have, but it is also true that you are overstating differences between the sets. Ravager is supposed to be 1-2k better than veiled? That doesn't make sense mathematically at all. Veiled gets a 85-90% uptime, while Ravager does not nearly reach that amount. Getting 60% on ravager is not easily done in most fights that aren't stack and burn like vAA. Ravager is also very unreliable, you'll often proc it when you're about to go to the back bar. It also currently procs off relequen, which will likely change soon, so you can expect your uptime to decrease. If you get that uptime without relequen, I'd be happy to see that in parses. Same holds for selenes, Which has become very popular because of that.
In cloudrest and asylum, I would definitely use veiled over ravager. The fact that your dots proc veiled, while they don't proc ravager is a huge advantage.
But again, the whole discussion is lacklustre, as these Sets are so close to each other that no-one will notice any difference. Every update people argue about these teeny tiny differences.
That wasn't the Devs that decided this was bis/only way to run. That was the players.
Next patch it'll be another raid setup.
The players work with what they are given by the devs. The devs create the math. The players do that math and figure out the best set-up. This is a fictional universe where the devs control everything.
I don't disagree with anything you've said. I disagree that ZOS is responsible for (the generic, not specific) you stacking 7 nb dps in a trial. That was entirely up to the raid, as every single class in the game can pull the dps needed to clear any and all content.
That one would want a score or "the fastest run" is the major driving force behind such a thing. Imagine a world where nb were 199 dps ahead of any other class, who would still get picked?
Then who drives the balance other than ZOS? ZOS' number changes made stacking 7 NBs very appealing to all the number crunching math wiz players analyzing for the best group comp. Not sure how this is not ZOS' responsibility. ZOS is the one fiddles with numbers that actually impact the gameplay, not anyone else. And since leaderboard demands faster completion and people don't like sitting in one trial for hours due to unoptimized raid composition when there's a way to complete the content very efficiently. ZOS' number fiddling has made all the other classes not NB undesireable for optimized raids. So yes, ZOS IS responsible.Imperials, the one and true masters of all mortal races of Tamriel0 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Veiled Heritance is literally within 2% of yokeda. Wouldn’t label it trash per se.Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Veiled Heritance is literally within 2% of yokeda. Wouldn’t label it trash per se.
see this post if you dont believe us, https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5282363/#Comment_5282363
Guys, I dont need to see the math...I use the set in trials...but since u want math
Armor of the Veiled Heritance Set
LEVEL 50 CHAMPION 160
(2 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(3 items) Adds 2975 Physical Resistance
(4 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(5 items) When you deal damage, you have a 10% to increase your Weapon Damage by 400 for 5 seconds.
Ravager Set
LEVEL 50 CHAMPION 160
(2 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(3 items) Adds 1206 Max Health
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(5 items) When you deal melee damage, you have an 8% chance to increase your Weapon Damage by 630 for 10 seconds. This effect can occur once every 10 seconds.
Lets say you get 100% uptime on Veiled Heritance (which you wont, but lets say you do) - thats 400 weapon damage. Ravager on a stamplar gets anywhere between 70-80% on my parses. Lets say I get a low end - 70% Thats 630 x .7 = 441 weapon damage. Ravager wins. On high uptime parses where i get 80+% it gives 630 x .8 = 504 wep damage. So Ravager is clearly better. And Yokeda is better than ravager....
You are comparing VH to rav, we never said that they were equal, we said advancing yokuda was practically equal to veiled heritance. Your big long post was for not.
Advancing Yokeda is around 1-2k DPS better than ravager and ravager is 2k+ dps better than Veiled Heritance...so im not sure how my post is not relevant.
It is not relevant for the reasons I stated, you were comparing the wrong sets, Now you need to show how that is possible. Math for VH vs AY. I showed where I get my math.
Do you have any parses?
Do you have a 6 mil parse with Veiled heritance?
Do you have boss fights?
No, but if you follow the link I gave already, @Masel92 does. Simple.
There are no parses...just numbers...its clearly an inferior set. In trials Advancing Yokeda is better than both Ravager and Veiled Heritance, because the weapon damage contribution is diminished. When things like Major Courage and PA are in the mix, they lower the contribution that sets like Ravager and Veiled Heritance. On the other hand advancing yokeda only gets stronger due to an increased Major Force Uptime.
These aren't "just numbers", I verified these calculations through ingame data. I even had a Combat Team Dev read through the post to check for mistakes.
You're right in terms of diminishing returns the more WD you have, but it is also true that you are overstating differences between the sets. Ravager is supposed to be 1-2k better than veiled? That doesn't make sense mathematically at all. Veiled gets a 85-90% uptime, while Ravager does not nearly reach that amount. Getting 60% on ravager is not easily done in most fights that aren't stack and burn like vAA. Ravager is also very unreliable, you'll often proc it when you're about to go to the back bar. It also currently procs off relequen, which will likely change soon, so you can expect your uptime to decrease. If you get that uptime without relequen, I'd be happy to see that in parses. Same holds for selenes, Which has become very popular because of that.
In cloudrest and asylum, I would definitely use veiled over ravager. The fact that your dots proc veiled, while they don't proc ravager is a huge advantage.
But again, the whole discussion is lacklustre, as these Sets are so close to each other that no-one will notice any difference. Every update people argue about these teeny tiny differences.
Have you played stamplar in trials man? No offense man, but I dont think you have. I've ran my stamplar in VCR/maw/craglorns. I have never gotten below 70% uptime on ravager. Asylum is a special case, and obviously different. As far as how good each set is and testing. I'm getting high 50k st with ravager, while other stamplars wearing yokeda are getting 60s, so yes there is a difference between those two sets. As far as its significance, that depends on who you ask. To me a 2k difference is significant. Veiled at 100% uptime is already worse than Ravager, so at lower percentages it is even more worse.
As far as combat devs go. The combat team let the current DLC go live where the bis raid team is 7 nightblades 1 sorc (only because of conduit). This is appalling and I have absolutely zero respect for them.
Yes I have, all trials with HM up to vCR +2. If you want to convince me, you'd have to deliver some sort of proof.
As far as the Dev team goes: I am on your side concerning the nb stack, it annoys me because I wanna play the class and spec I wanna play. Not what mechanics force on me.
I think stamplars shouldnt be using Veiled Heritance, they should be using Ravager OR Advancing Yokeda. You need to wear gold food for best DPS and the health without ravager is too low, so if you use Advancing Yokeda yo have to wear a health enchant. I think that would make Ravager on par with Advancing Yokeda, or pretty darn close. Ill stick with Ravager, because its easier to get and it performs very well. This is from last night:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBoJCCI8Nbw
Rakkhat parse is a bit low, but Zhaz is good. Do you have any parses from the trials that you did?
As to our argument, I did a special video for you:)
https://youtu.be/QR9uzbzc-c0
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mcted123✭Ty for all the replies, will start working on arms of reliquin set. Yes I am aware NBs will be better DPS but have always loved stamplar0 -
scionix90✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Use veil heritance instead of ravager. You will get more mileage out of it.
Naw just cause u think a set is better doesn’t mean it is.
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