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Stamplar ravager set
mcted123
✭
Anyone recommend a good set to pair with ravagers for a stamplar . Right now I have hundings and wanted to test out a few other's .
Or just your stamplar gear set up. I really liked the idea of ravager but I am not sure how effective it is with limited testing on console.
Or just your stamplar gear set up. I really liked the idea of ravager but I am not sure how effective it is with limited testing on console.
0
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Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Use veil heritance instead of ravager. You will get more mileage out of it.Edited by Lightspeedflashb14_ESO on July 23, 2018 2:30AM1 -
Checkmath✭✭✭✭✭
✭for what content? pvp or pve? anyway good sets would be automaton or warmachine in the case of pve, also arms of relequen or how the stamina trial set from cloudrest is called. for pvp also automaton or hulking draugrs work for full damage builds. for more sustain bone pirate is a must.0 -
Checkmath✭✭✭✭✭
✭btw arms of relequen provides a very high uptime on ravager (80% or something i think).0 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭I use ravager/reloquen. If you're not using ravager use advancing yokeda. By the way Veiled Heritance is trash... Ravager or Yokeda are the two best options for PvE.1 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Veiled Heritance is literally within 2% of yokeda. Wouldn’t label it trash per se.
see this post if you dont believe us, https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5282363/#Comment_52823630 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Veiled Heritance is literally within 2% of yokeda. Wouldn’t label it trash per se.Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Veiled Heritance is literally within 2% of yokeda. Wouldn’t label it trash per se.
see this post if you dont believe us, https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5282363/#Comment_5282363
Guys, I dont need to see the math...I use the set in trials...but since u want math
Armor of the Veiled Heritance Set
LEVEL 50 CHAMPION 160
(2 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(3 items) Adds 2975 Physical Resistance
(4 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(5 items) When you deal damage, you have a 10% to increase your Weapon Damage by 400 for 5 seconds.
Ravager Set
LEVEL 50 CHAMPION 160
(2 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(3 items) Adds 1206 Max Health
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(5 items) When you deal melee damage, you have an 8% chance to increase your Weapon Damage by 630 for 10 seconds. This effect can occur once every 10 seconds.
Lets say you get 100% uptime on Veiled Heritance (which you wont, but lets say you do) - thats 400 weapon damage. Ravager on a stamplar gets anywhere between 70-80% on my parses. Lets say I get a low end - 70% Thats 630 x .7 = 441 weapon damage. Ravager wins. On high uptime parses where i get 80+% it gives 630 x .8 = 504 wep damage. So Ravager is clearly better. And Yokeda is better than ravager....0 -
What_In_Tarnation✭✭✭✭If you have Arms of Relequen, go ravager or berserking warrior(yokeda). Both sets become really strong with relequen. And that's the reason why most of stamina builds in pve use selene set, too. Because relequen can help you proc all of the sets you wear.
But If you don't have Arms of Relequen, go veil heritance.Edited by What_In_Tarnation on July 24, 2018 2:48AM0 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Veiled Heritance is literally within 2% of yokeda. Wouldn’t label it trash per se.Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Veiled Heritance is literally within 2% of yokeda. Wouldn’t label it trash per se.
see this post if you dont believe us, https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5282363/#Comment_5282363
Guys, I dont need to see the math...I use the set in trials...but since u want math
Armor of the Veiled Heritance Set
LEVEL 50 CHAMPION 160
(2 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(3 items) Adds 2975 Physical Resistance
(4 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(5 items) When you deal damage, you have a 10% to increase your Weapon Damage by 400 for 5 seconds.
Ravager Set
LEVEL 50 CHAMPION 160
(2 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(3 items) Adds 1206 Max Health
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(5 items) When you deal melee damage, you have an 8% chance to increase your Weapon Damage by 630 for 10 seconds. This effect can occur once every 10 seconds.
Lets say you get 100% uptime on Veiled Heritance (which you wont, but lets say you do) - thats 400 weapon damage. Ravager on a stamplar gets anywhere between 70-80% on my parses. Lets say I get a low end - 70% Thats 630 x .7 = 441 weapon damage. Ravager wins. On high uptime parses where i get 80+% it gives 630 x .8 = 504 wep damage. So Ravager is clearly better. And Yokeda is better than ravager....
You are comparing VH to rav, we never said that they were equal, we said advancing yokuda was practically equal to veiled heritance. Your big long post was for not.0 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Veiled Heritance is literally within 2% of yokeda. Wouldn’t label it trash per se.Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Veiled Heritance is literally within 2% of yokeda. Wouldn’t label it trash per se.
see this post if you dont believe us, https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5282363/#Comment_5282363
Guys, I dont need to see the math...I use the set in trials...but since u want math
Armor of the Veiled Heritance Set
LEVEL 50 CHAMPION 160
(2 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(3 items) Adds 2975 Physical Resistance
(4 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(5 items) When you deal damage, you have a 10% to increase your Weapon Damage by 400 for 5 seconds.
Ravager Set
LEVEL 50 CHAMPION 160
(2 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(3 items) Adds 1206 Max Health
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(5 items) When you deal melee damage, you have an 8% chance to increase your Weapon Damage by 630 for 10 seconds. This effect can occur once every 10 seconds.
Lets say you get 100% uptime on Veiled Heritance (which you wont, but lets say you do) - thats 400 weapon damage. Ravager on a stamplar gets anywhere between 70-80% on my parses. Lets say I get a low end - 70% Thats 630 x .7 = 441 weapon damage. Ravager wins. On high uptime parses where i get 80+% it gives 630 x .8 = 504 wep damage. So Ravager is clearly better. And Yokeda is better than ravager....
You are comparing VH to rav, we never said that they were equal, we said advancing yokuda was practically equal to veiled heritance. Your big long post was for not.
Advancing Yokeda is around 1-2k DPS better than ravager and ravager is 2k+ dps better than Veiled Heritance...so im not sure how my post is not relevant.0 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Veiled Heritance is literally within 2% of yokeda. Wouldn’t label it trash per se.Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Veiled Heritance is literally within 2% of yokeda. Wouldn’t label it trash per se.
see this post if you dont believe us, https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5282363/#Comment_5282363
Guys, I dont need to see the math...I use the set in trials...but since u want math
Armor of the Veiled Heritance Set
LEVEL 50 CHAMPION 160
(2 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(3 items) Adds 2975 Physical Resistance
(4 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(5 items) When you deal damage, you have a 10% to increase your Weapon Damage by 400 for 5 seconds.
Ravager Set
LEVEL 50 CHAMPION 160
(2 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(3 items) Adds 1206 Max Health
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(5 items) When you deal melee damage, you have an 8% chance to increase your Weapon Damage by 630 for 10 seconds. This effect can occur once every 10 seconds.
Lets say you get 100% uptime on Veiled Heritance (which you wont, but lets say you do) - thats 400 weapon damage. Ravager on a stamplar gets anywhere between 70-80% on my parses. Lets say I get a low end - 70% Thats 630 x .7 = 441 weapon damage. Ravager wins. On high uptime parses where i get 80+% it gives 630 x .8 = 504 wep damage. So Ravager is clearly better. And Yokeda is better than ravager....
You are comparing VH to rav, we never said that they were equal, we said advancing yokuda was practically equal to veiled heritance. Your big long post was for not.
Advancing Yokeda is around 1-2k DPS better than ravager and ravager is 2k+ dps better than Veiled Heritance...so im not sure how my post is not relevant.
It is not relevant for the reasons I stated, you were comparing the wrong sets, Now you need to show how that is possible. Math for VH vs AY. I showed where I get my math.0 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Veiled Heritance is literally within 2% of yokeda. Wouldn’t label it trash per se.Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Veiled Heritance is literally within 2% of yokeda. Wouldn’t label it trash per se.
see this post if you dont believe us, https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5282363/#Comment_5282363
Guys, I dont need to see the math...I use the set in trials...but since u want math
Armor of the Veiled Heritance Set
LEVEL 50 CHAMPION 160
(2 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(3 items) Adds 2975 Physical Resistance
(4 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(5 items) When you deal damage, you have a 10% to increase your Weapon Damage by 400 for 5 seconds.
Ravager Set
LEVEL 50 CHAMPION 160
(2 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(3 items) Adds 1206 Max Health
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(5 items) When you deal melee damage, you have an 8% chance to increase your Weapon Damage by 630 for 10 seconds. This effect can occur once every 10 seconds.
Lets say you get 100% uptime on Veiled Heritance (which you wont, but lets say you do) - thats 400 weapon damage. Ravager on a stamplar gets anywhere between 70-80% on my parses. Lets say I get a low end - 70% Thats 630 x .7 = 441 weapon damage. Ravager wins. On high uptime parses where i get 80+% it gives 630 x .8 = 504 wep damage. So Ravager is clearly better. And Yokeda is better than ravager....
You are comparing VH to rav, we never said that they were equal, we said advancing yokuda was practically equal to veiled heritance. Your big long post was for not.
Advancing Yokeda is around 1-2k DPS better than ravager and ravager is 2k+ dps better than Veiled Heritance...so im not sure how my post is not relevant.
It is not relevant for the reasons I stated, you were comparing the wrong sets, Now you need to show how that is possible. Math for VH vs AY. I showed where I get my math.
Do you have any parses?
Do you have a 6 mil parse with Veiled heritance?
Do you have boss fights?
0 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Veiled Heritance is literally within 2% of yokeda. Wouldn’t label it trash per se.Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Veiled Heritance is literally within 2% of yokeda. Wouldn’t label it trash per se.
see this post if you dont believe us, https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5282363/#Comment_5282363
Guys, I dont need to see the math...I use the set in trials...but since u want math
Armor of the Veiled Heritance Set
LEVEL 50 CHAMPION 160
(2 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(3 items) Adds 2975 Physical Resistance
(4 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(5 items) When you deal damage, you have a 10% to increase your Weapon Damage by 400 for 5 seconds.
Ravager Set
LEVEL 50 CHAMPION 160
(2 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(3 items) Adds 1206 Max Health
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(5 items) When you deal melee damage, you have an 8% chance to increase your Weapon Damage by 630 for 10 seconds. This effect can occur once every 10 seconds.
Lets say you get 100% uptime on Veiled Heritance (which you wont, but lets say you do) - thats 400 weapon damage. Ravager on a stamplar gets anywhere between 70-80% on my parses. Lets say I get a low end - 70% Thats 630 x .7 = 441 weapon damage. Ravager wins. On high uptime parses where i get 80+% it gives 630 x .8 = 504 wep damage. So Ravager is clearly better. And Yokeda is better than ravager....
You are comparing VH to rav, we never said that they were equal, we said advancing yokuda was practically equal to veiled heritance. Your big long post was for not.
Advancing Yokeda is around 1-2k DPS better than ravager and ravager is 2k+ dps better than Veiled Heritance...so im not sure how my post is not relevant.
It is not relevant for the reasons I stated, you were comparing the wrong sets, Now you need to show how that is possible. Math for VH vs AY. I showed where I get my math.
Do you have any parses?
Do you have a 6 mil parse with Veiled heritance?
Do you have boss fights?
Do you? if you follow the link I gave already, @Masel92 does. Simple.Edited by Lightspeedflashb14_ESO on July 24, 2018 7:03AM1 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Veiled Heritance is literally within 2% of yokeda. Wouldn’t label it trash per se.Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Veiled Heritance is literally within 2% of yokeda. Wouldn’t label it trash per se.
see this post if you dont believe us, https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5282363/#Comment_5282363
Guys, I dont need to see the math...I use the set in trials...but since u want math
Armor of the Veiled Heritance Set
LEVEL 50 CHAMPION 160
(2 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(3 items) Adds 2975 Physical Resistance
(4 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(5 items) When you deal damage, you have a 10% to increase your Weapon Damage by 400 for 5 seconds.
Ravager Set
LEVEL 50 CHAMPION 160
(2 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(3 items) Adds 1206 Max Health
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(5 items) When you deal melee damage, you have an 8% chance to increase your Weapon Damage by 630 for 10 seconds. This effect can occur once every 10 seconds.
Lets say you get 100% uptime on Veiled Heritance (which you wont, but lets say you do) - thats 400 weapon damage. Ravager on a stamplar gets anywhere between 70-80% on my parses. Lets say I get a low end - 70% Thats 630 x .7 = 441 weapon damage. Ravager wins. On high uptime parses where i get 80+% it gives 630 x .8 = 504 wep damage. So Ravager is clearly better. And Yokeda is better than ravager....
You are comparing VH to rav, we never said that they were equal, we said advancing yokuda was practically equal to veiled heritance. Your big long post was for not.
Advancing Yokeda is around 1-2k DPS better than ravager and ravager is 2k+ dps better than Veiled Heritance...so im not sure how my post is not relevant.
It is not relevant for the reasons I stated, you were comparing the wrong sets, Now you need to show how that is possible. Math for VH vs AY. I showed where I get my math.
Do you have any parses?
Do you have a 6 mil parse with Veiled heritance?
Do you have boss fights?
No, but if you follow the link I gave already, @Masel92 does. Simple.
There are no parses...just numbers...its clearly an inferior set. In trials Advancing Yokeda is better than both Ravager and Veiled Heritance, because the weapon damage contribution is diminished. When things like Major Courage and PA are in the mix, they lower the contribution that sets like Ravager and Veiled Heritance. On the other hand advancing yokeda only gets stronger due to an increased Major Force Uptime.2 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Veiled Heritance is literally within 2% of yokeda. Wouldn’t label it trash per se.Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Veiled Heritance is literally within 2% of yokeda. Wouldn’t label it trash per se.
see this post if you dont believe us, https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5282363/#Comment_5282363
Guys, I dont need to see the math...I use the set in trials...but since u want math
Armor of the Veiled Heritance Set
LEVEL 50 CHAMPION 160
(2 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(3 items) Adds 2975 Physical Resistance
(4 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(5 items) When you deal damage, you have a 10% to increase your Weapon Damage by 400 for 5 seconds.
Ravager Set
LEVEL 50 CHAMPION 160
(2 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(3 items) Adds 1206 Max Health
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(5 items) When you deal melee damage, you have an 8% chance to increase your Weapon Damage by 630 for 10 seconds. This effect can occur once every 10 seconds.
Lets say you get 100% uptime on Veiled Heritance (which you wont, but lets say you do) - thats 400 weapon damage. Ravager on a stamplar gets anywhere between 70-80% on my parses. Lets say I get a low end - 70% Thats 630 x .7 = 441 weapon damage. Ravager wins. On high uptime parses where i get 80+% it gives 630 x .8 = 504 wep damage. So Ravager is clearly better. And Yokeda is better than ravager....
You are comparing VH to rav, we never said that they were equal, we said advancing yokuda was practically equal to veiled heritance. Your big long post was for not.
Advancing Yokeda is around 1-2k DPS better than ravager and ravager is 2k+ dps better than Veiled Heritance...so im not sure how my post is not relevant.
It is not relevant for the reasons I stated, you were comparing the wrong sets, Now you need to show how that is possible. Math for VH vs AY. I showed where I get my math.
Do you have any parses?
Do you have a 6 mil parse with Veiled heritance?
Do you have boss fights?
No, but if you follow the link I gave already, @Masel92 does. Simple.
There are no parses...just numbers...its clearly an inferior set. In trials Advancing Yokeda is better than both Ravager and Veiled Heritance, because the weapon damage contribution is diminished. When things like Major Courage and PA are in the mix, they lower the contribution that sets like Ravager and Veiled Heritance. On the other hand advancing yokeda only gets stronger due to an increased Major Force Uptime.
no one is saying it the best set out there, you are simply overblowing the difference. the whole game is "just numbers" when you get down to it by the way.
if you look through those "just numbers" there is a calculation for builds like you are saying, the second set of "numbers" is with 100% minor force and 50% major force. and with the lover stones, as is meta theses days, AY is 14169 and VH is 14161, practically the same. If you have evidence to the contrary, you have to show it.Edited by Lightspeedflashb14_ESO on July 24, 2018 7:25AM0 -
MaselClass Representativehedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Veiled Heritance is literally within 2% of yokeda. Wouldn’t label it trash per se.Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Veiled Heritance is literally within 2% of yokeda. Wouldn’t label it trash per se.
see this post if you dont believe us, https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5282363/#Comment_5282363
Guys, I dont need to see the math...I use the set in trials...but since u want math
Armor of the Veiled Heritance Set
LEVEL 50 CHAMPION 160
(2 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(3 items) Adds 2975 Physical Resistance
(4 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(5 items) When you deal damage, you have a 10% to increase your Weapon Damage by 400 for 5 seconds.
Ravager Set
LEVEL 50 CHAMPION 160
(2 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(3 items) Adds 1206 Max Health
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(5 items) When you deal melee damage, you have an 8% chance to increase your Weapon Damage by 630 for 10 seconds. This effect can occur once every 10 seconds.
Lets say you get 100% uptime on Veiled Heritance (which you wont, but lets say you do) - thats 400 weapon damage. Ravager on a stamplar gets anywhere between 70-80% on my parses. Lets say I get a low end - 70% Thats 630 x .7 = 441 weapon damage. Ravager wins. On high uptime parses where i get 80+% it gives 630 x .8 = 504 wep damage. So Ravager is clearly better. And Yokeda is better than ravager....
You are comparing VH to rav, we never said that they were equal, we said advancing yokuda was practically equal to veiled heritance. Your big long post was for not.
Advancing Yokeda is around 1-2k DPS better than ravager and ravager is 2k+ dps better than Veiled Heritance...so im not sure how my post is not relevant.
It is not relevant for the reasons I stated, you were comparing the wrong sets, Now you need to show how that is possible. Math for VH vs AY. I showed where I get my math.
Do you have any parses?
Do you have a 6 mil parse with Veiled heritance?
Do you have boss fights?
No, but if you follow the link I gave already, @Masel92 does. Simple.
There are no parses...just numbers...its clearly an inferior set. In trials Advancing Yokeda is better than both Ravager and Veiled Heritance, because the weapon damage contribution is diminished. When things like Major Courage and PA are in the mix, they lower the contribution that sets like Ravager and Veiled Heritance. On the other hand advancing yokeda only gets stronger due to an increased Major Force Uptime.
These aren't "just numbers", I verified these calculations through ingame data. I even had a Combat Team Dev read through the post to check for mistakes.
You're right in terms of diminishing returns the more WD you have, but it is also true that you are overstating differences between the sets. Ravager is supposed to be 1-2k better than veiled? That doesn't make sense mathematically at all. Veiled gets a 85-90% uptime, while Ravager does not nearly reach that amount. Getting 60% on ravager is not easily done in most fights that aren't stack and burn like vAA. Ravager is also very unreliable, you'll often proc it when you're about to go to the back bar. It also currently procs off relequen, which will likely change soon, so you can expect your uptime to decrease. If you get that uptime without relequen, I'd be happy to see that in parses. Same holds for selenes, Which has become very popular because of that.
In cloudrest and asylum, I would definitely use veiled over ravager. The fact that your dots proc veiled, while they don't proc ravager is a huge advantage.
But again, the whole discussion is lacklustre, as these Sets are so close to each other that no-one will notice any difference. Every update people argue about these teeny tiny differences.Edited by Masel on July 24, 2018 9:05AMPC EU
All Trial Trifecta Titles Done!
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChVEG6ckuAgGs5OyA6VeisA3 -
_Salty_✭✭✭✭✭This discussion right here is why I stay far away from top tier pve. Arguing over 2 to 3 thousand dps. Ill stick to pvp thank you.Psn l---Salty---l
Patiently waiting to make a Stankcromancer.6 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Veiled Heritance is literally within 2% of yokeda. Wouldn’t label it trash per se.Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Veiled Heritance is literally within 2% of yokeda. Wouldn’t label it trash per se.
see this post if you dont believe us, https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5282363/#Comment_5282363
Guys, I dont need to see the math...I use the set in trials...but since u want math
Armor of the Veiled Heritance Set
LEVEL 50 CHAMPION 160
(2 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(3 items) Adds 2975 Physical Resistance
(4 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(5 items) When you deal damage, you have a 10% to increase your Weapon Damage by 400 for 5 seconds.
Ravager Set
LEVEL 50 CHAMPION 160
(2 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(3 items) Adds 1206 Max Health
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(5 items) When you deal melee damage, you have an 8% chance to increase your Weapon Damage by 630 for 10 seconds. This effect can occur once every 10 seconds.
Lets say you get 100% uptime on Veiled Heritance (which you wont, but lets say you do) - thats 400 weapon damage. Ravager on a stamplar gets anywhere between 70-80% on my parses. Lets say I get a low end - 70% Thats 630 x .7 = 441 weapon damage. Ravager wins. On high uptime parses where i get 80+% it gives 630 x .8 = 504 wep damage. So Ravager is clearly better. And Yokeda is better than ravager....
You are comparing VH to rav, we never said that they were equal, we said advancing yokuda was practically equal to veiled heritance. Your big long post was for not.
Advancing Yokeda is around 1-2k DPS better than ravager and ravager is 2k+ dps better than Veiled Heritance...so im not sure how my post is not relevant.
It is not relevant for the reasons I stated, you were comparing the wrong sets, Now you need to show how that is possible. Math for VH vs AY. I showed where I get my math.
Do you have any parses?
Do you have a 6 mil parse with Veiled heritance?
Do you have boss fights?
No, but if you follow the link I gave already, @Masel92 does. Simple.
There are no parses...just numbers...its clearly an inferior set. In trials Advancing Yokeda is better than both Ravager and Veiled Heritance, because the weapon damage contribution is diminished. When things like Major Courage and PA are in the mix, they lower the contribution that sets like Ravager and Veiled Heritance. On the other hand advancing yokeda only gets stronger due to an increased Major Force Uptime.
These aren't "just numbers", I verified these calculations through ingame data. I even had a Combat Team Dev read through the post to check for mistakes.
You're right in terms of diminishing returns the more WD you have, but it is also true that you are overstating differences between the sets. Ravager is supposed to be 1-2k better than veiled? That doesn't make sense mathematically at all. Veiled gets a 85-90% uptime, while Ravager does not nearly reach that amount. Getting 60% on ravager is not easily done in most fights that aren't stack and burn like vAA. Ravager is also very unreliable, you'll often proc it when you're about to go to the back bar. It also currently procs off relequen, which will likely change soon, so you can expect your uptime to decrease. If you get that uptime without relequen, I'd be happy to see that in parses. Same holds for selenes, Which has become very popular because of that.
In cloudrest and asylum, I would definitely use veiled over ravager. The fact that your dots proc veiled, while they don't proc ravager is a huge advantage.
But again, the whole discussion is lacklustre, as these Sets are so close to each other that no-one will notice any difference. Every update people argue about these teeny tiny differences.
Have you played stamplar in trials man? No offense man, but I dont think you have. I've ran my stamplar in VCR/maw/craglorns. I have never gotten below 70% uptime on ravager. Asylum is a special case, and obviously different. As far as how good each set is and testing. I'm getting high 50k st with ravager, while other stamplars wearing yokeda are getting 60s, so yes there is a difference between those two sets. As far as its significance, that depends on who you ask. To me a 2k difference is significant. Veiled at 100% uptime is already worse than Ravager, so at lower percentages it is even more worse.
As far as combat devs go. The combat team let the current DLC go live where the bis raid team is 7 nightblades 1 sorc (only because of conduit). This is appalling and I have absolutely zero respect for them.Edited by hedna123b14_ESO on July 24, 2018 1:41PM0 -
Danksta✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭What_In_Tarnation wrote: »If you have Arms of Relequen, go ravager or berserking warrior(yokeda). Both sets become really strong with relequen. And that's the reason why most of stamina builds in pve use selene set, too. Because relequen can help you proc all of the sets you wear.
But If you don't have Arms of Relequen, go veil heritance.
Why would Berserking Warrior become really strong paired with Relequen? Berserking is all about crit and Relequen can't crit.BawKinTackWarDs PS4/NA0 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭What_In_Tarnation wrote: »If you have Arms of Relequen, go ravager or berserking warrior(yokeda). Both sets become really strong with relequen. And that's the reason why most of stamina builds in pve use selene set, too. Because relequen can help you proc all of the sets you wear.
But If you don't have Arms of Relequen, go veil heritance.
Why would Berserking Warrior become really strong paired with Relequen? Berserking is all about crit and Relequen can't crit.
Because relequen currently counts as "direct melee damage", which will proc AY.Edited by Lightspeedflashb14_ESO on July 24, 2018 2:51PM0 -
DocFrost72✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »
As far as combat devs go. The combat team let the current DLC go live where the bis raid team is 7 nightblades 1 sorc (only because of conduit). This is appalling and I have absolutely zero respect for them.hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Veiled Heritance is literally within 2% of yokeda. Wouldn’t label it trash per se.Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Veiled Heritance is literally within 2% of yokeda. Wouldn’t label it trash per se.
see this post if you dont believe us, https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5282363/#Comment_5282363
Guys, I dont need to see the math...I use the set in trials...but since u want math
Armor of the Veiled Heritance Set
LEVEL 50 CHAMPION 160
(2 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(3 items) Adds 2975 Physical Resistance
(4 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(5 items) When you deal damage, you have a 10% to increase your Weapon Damage by 400 for 5 seconds.
Ravager Set
LEVEL 50 CHAMPION 160
(2 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(3 items) Adds 1206 Max Health
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(5 items) When you deal melee damage, you have an 8% chance to increase your Weapon Damage by 630 for 10 seconds. This effect can occur once every 10 seconds.
Lets say you get 100% uptime on Veiled Heritance (which you wont, but lets say you do) - thats 400 weapon damage. Ravager on a stamplar gets anywhere between 70-80% on my parses. Lets say I get a low end - 70% Thats 630 x .7 = 441 weapon damage. Ravager wins. On high uptime parses where i get 80+% it gives 630 x .8 = 504 wep damage. So Ravager is clearly better. And Yokeda is better than ravager....
You are comparing VH to rav, we never said that they were equal, we said advancing yokuda was practically equal to veiled heritance. Your big long post was for not.
Advancing Yokeda is around 1-2k DPS better than ravager and ravager is 2k+ dps better than Veiled Heritance...so im not sure how my post is not relevant.
It is not relevant for the reasons I stated, you were comparing the wrong sets, Now you need to show how that is possible. Math for VH vs AY. I showed where I get my math.
Do you have any parses?
Do you have a 6 mil parse with Veiled heritance?
Do you have boss fights?
No, but if you follow the link I gave already, @Masel92 does. Simple.
There are no parses...just numbers...its clearly an inferior set. In trials Advancing Yokeda is better than both Ravager and Veiled Heritance, because the weapon damage contribution is diminished. When things like Major Courage and PA are in the mix, they lower the contribution that sets like Ravager and Veiled Heritance. On the other hand advancing yokeda only gets stronger due to an increased Major Force Uptime.
These aren't "just numbers", I verified these calculations through ingame data. I even had a Combat Team Dev read through the post to check for mistakes.
You're right in terms of diminishing returns the more WD you have, but it is also true that you are overstating differences between the sets. Ravager is supposed to be 1-2k better than veiled? That doesn't make sense mathematically at all. Veiled gets a 85-90% uptime, while Ravager does not nearly reach that amount. Getting 60% on ravager is not easily done in most fights that aren't stack and burn like vAA. Ravager is also very unreliable, you'll often proc it when you're about to go to the back bar. It also currently procs off relequen, which will likely change soon, so you can expect your uptime to decrease. If you get that uptime without relequen, I'd be happy to see that in parses. Same holds for selenes, Which has become very popular because of that.
In cloudrest and asylum, I would definitely use veiled over ravager. The fact that your dots proc veiled, while they don't proc ravager is a huge advantage.
But again, the whole discussion is lacklustre, as these Sets are so close to each other that no-one will notice any difference. Every update people argue about these teeny tiny differences.
That wasn't the Devs that decided this was bis/only way to run. That was the players.
Next patch it'll be another raid setup.0 -
Apache_Kid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭DocFrost72 wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »
As far as combat devs go. The combat team let the current DLC go live where the bis raid team is 7 nightblades 1 sorc (only because of conduit). This is appalling and I have absolutely zero respect for them.hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Veiled Heritance is literally within 2% of yokeda. Wouldn’t label it trash per se.Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Veiled Heritance is literally within 2% of yokeda. Wouldn’t label it trash per se.
see this post if you dont believe us, https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5282363/#Comment_5282363
Guys, I dont need to see the math...I use the set in trials...but since u want math
Armor of the Veiled Heritance Set
LEVEL 50 CHAMPION 160
(2 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(3 items) Adds 2975 Physical Resistance
(4 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(5 items) When you deal damage, you have a 10% to increase your Weapon Damage by 400 for 5 seconds.
Ravager Set
LEVEL 50 CHAMPION 160
(2 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(3 items) Adds 1206 Max Health
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(5 items) When you deal melee damage, you have an 8% chance to increase your Weapon Damage by 630 for 10 seconds. This effect can occur once every 10 seconds.
Lets say you get 100% uptime on Veiled Heritance (which you wont, but lets say you do) - thats 400 weapon damage. Ravager on a stamplar gets anywhere between 70-80% on my parses. Lets say I get a low end - 70% Thats 630 x .7 = 441 weapon damage. Ravager wins. On high uptime parses where i get 80+% it gives 630 x .8 = 504 wep damage. So Ravager is clearly better. And Yokeda is better than ravager....
You are comparing VH to rav, we never said that they were equal, we said advancing yokuda was practically equal to veiled heritance. Your big long post was for not.
Advancing Yokeda is around 1-2k DPS better than ravager and ravager is 2k+ dps better than Veiled Heritance...so im not sure how my post is not relevant.
It is not relevant for the reasons I stated, you were comparing the wrong sets, Now you need to show how that is possible. Math for VH vs AY. I showed where I get my math.
Do you have any parses?
Do you have a 6 mil parse with Veiled heritance?
Do you have boss fights?
No, but if you follow the link I gave already, @Masel92 does. Simple.
There are no parses...just numbers...its clearly an inferior set. In trials Advancing Yokeda is better than both Ravager and Veiled Heritance, because the weapon damage contribution is diminished. When things like Major Courage and PA are in the mix, they lower the contribution that sets like Ravager and Veiled Heritance. On the other hand advancing yokeda only gets stronger due to an increased Major Force Uptime.
These aren't "just numbers", I verified these calculations through ingame data. I even had a Combat Team Dev read through the post to check for mistakes.
You're right in terms of diminishing returns the more WD you have, but it is also true that you are overstating differences between the sets. Ravager is supposed to be 1-2k better than veiled? That doesn't make sense mathematically at all. Veiled gets a 85-90% uptime, while Ravager does not nearly reach that amount. Getting 60% on ravager is not easily done in most fights that aren't stack and burn like vAA. Ravager is also very unreliable, you'll often proc it when you're about to go to the back bar. It also currently procs off relequen, which will likely change soon, so you can expect your uptime to decrease. If you get that uptime without relequen, I'd be happy to see that in parses. Same holds for selenes, Which has become very popular because of that.
In cloudrest and asylum, I would definitely use veiled over ravager. The fact that your dots proc veiled, while they don't proc ravager is a huge advantage.
But again, the whole discussion is lacklustre, as these Sets are so close to each other that no-one will notice any difference. Every update people argue about these teeny tiny differences.
That wasn't the Devs that decided this was bis/only way to run. That was the players.
Next patch it'll be another raid setup.
The players work with what they are given by the devs. The devs create the math. The players do that math and figure out the best set-up. This is a fictional universe where the devs control everything.0 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This discussion right here is why I stay far away from top tier pve. Arguing over 2 to 3 thousand dps. Ill stick to pvp thank you.
I’m wondering if the OP even got his answer. Got away from advice to them and became math wars. Kind of funny when PvEers are then repulsed by PVP when they do it every chance they have verbally0 -
Danksta✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »What_In_Tarnation wrote: »If you have Arms of Relequen, go ravager or berserking warrior(yokeda). Both sets become really strong with relequen. And that's the reason why most of stamina builds in pve use selene set, too. Because relequen can help you proc all of the sets you wear.
But If you don't have Arms of Relequen, go veil heritance.
Why would Berserking Warrior become really strong paired with Relequen? Berserking is all about crit and Relequen can't crit.
Because relequen currently counts as "direct melee damage", which will proc AY.
Ok, but that has no effect when you already have full stacks which should be the majority of the time in most fights. I just don't think your uptime on full stacks is going to be much different with or without relequen.BawKinTackWarDs PS4/NA0 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭This discussion right here is why I stay far away from top tier pve. Arguing over 2 to 3 thousand dps. Ill stick to pvp thank you.
I’m wondering if the OP even got his answer. Got away from advice to them and became math wars. Kind of funny when PvEers are then repulsed by PVP when they do it every chance they have verbally
what does this mean, i have read it like 5 times and i do not understand what you are saying.0 -
DocFrost72✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Apache_Kid wrote: »DocFrost72 wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »
As far as combat devs go. The combat team let the current DLC go live where the bis raid team is 7 nightblades 1 sorc (only because of conduit). This is appalling and I have absolutely zero respect for them.hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Veiled Heritance is literally within 2% of yokeda. Wouldn’t label it trash per se.Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Veiled Heritance is literally within 2% of yokeda. Wouldn’t label it trash per se.
see this post if you dont believe us, https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5282363/#Comment_5282363
Guys, I dont need to see the math...I use the set in trials...but since u want math
Armor of the Veiled Heritance Set
LEVEL 50 CHAMPION 160
(2 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(3 items) Adds 2975 Physical Resistance
(4 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(5 items) When you deal damage, you have a 10% to increase your Weapon Damage by 400 for 5 seconds.
Ravager Set
LEVEL 50 CHAMPION 160
(2 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(3 items) Adds 1206 Max Health
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(5 items) When you deal melee damage, you have an 8% chance to increase your Weapon Damage by 630 for 10 seconds. This effect can occur once every 10 seconds.
Lets say you get 100% uptime on Veiled Heritance (which you wont, but lets say you do) - thats 400 weapon damage. Ravager on a stamplar gets anywhere between 70-80% on my parses. Lets say I get a low end - 70% Thats 630 x .7 = 441 weapon damage. Ravager wins. On high uptime parses where i get 80+% it gives 630 x .8 = 504 wep damage. So Ravager is clearly better. And Yokeda is better than ravager....
You are comparing VH to rav, we never said that they were equal, we said advancing yokuda was practically equal to veiled heritance. Your big long post was for not.
Advancing Yokeda is around 1-2k DPS better than ravager and ravager is 2k+ dps better than Veiled Heritance...so im not sure how my post is not relevant.
It is not relevant for the reasons I stated, you were comparing the wrong sets, Now you need to show how that is possible. Math for VH vs AY. I showed where I get my math.
Do you have any parses?
Do you have a 6 mil parse with Veiled heritance?
Do you have boss fights?
No, but if you follow the link I gave already, @Masel92 does. Simple.
There are no parses...just numbers...its clearly an inferior set. In trials Advancing Yokeda is better than both Ravager and Veiled Heritance, because the weapon damage contribution is diminished. When things like Major Courage and PA are in the mix, they lower the contribution that sets like Ravager and Veiled Heritance. On the other hand advancing yokeda only gets stronger due to an increased Major Force Uptime.
These aren't "just numbers", I verified these calculations through ingame data. I even had a Combat Team Dev read through the post to check for mistakes.
You're right in terms of diminishing returns the more WD you have, but it is also true that you are overstating differences between the sets. Ravager is supposed to be 1-2k better than veiled? That doesn't make sense mathematically at all. Veiled gets a 85-90% uptime, while Ravager does not nearly reach that amount. Getting 60% on ravager is not easily done in most fights that aren't stack and burn like vAA. Ravager is also very unreliable, you'll often proc it when you're about to go to the back bar. It also currently procs off relequen, which will likely change soon, so you can expect your uptime to decrease. If you get that uptime without relequen, I'd be happy to see that in parses. Same holds for selenes, Which has become very popular because of that.
In cloudrest and asylum, I would definitely use veiled over ravager. The fact that your dots proc veiled, while they don't proc ravager is a huge advantage.
But again, the whole discussion is lacklustre, as these Sets are so close to each other that no-one will notice any difference. Every update people argue about these teeny tiny differences.
That wasn't the Devs that decided this was bis/only way to run. That was the players.
Next patch it'll be another raid setup.
The players work with what they are given by the devs. The devs create the math. The players do that math and figure out the best set-up. This is a fictional universe where the devs control everything.
I don't disagree with anything you've said. I disagree that ZOS is responsible for (the generic, not specific) you stacking 7 nb dps in a trial. That was entirely up to the raid, as every single class in the game can pull the dps needed to clear any and all content.
That one would want a score or "the fastest run" is the major driving force behind such a thing. Imagine a world where nb were 199 dps ahead of any other class, who would still get picked?1 -
Apache_Kid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭DocFrost72 wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »DocFrost72 wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »
As far as combat devs go. The combat team let the current DLC go live where the bis raid team is 7 nightblades 1 sorc (only because of conduit). This is appalling and I have absolutely zero respect for them.hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Veiled Heritance is literally within 2% of yokeda. Wouldn’t label it trash per se.Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Veiled Heritance is literally within 2% of yokeda. Wouldn’t label it trash per se.
see this post if you dont believe us, https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5282363/#Comment_5282363
Guys, I dont need to see the math...I use the set in trials...but since u want math
Armor of the Veiled Heritance Set
LEVEL 50 CHAMPION 160
(2 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(3 items) Adds 2975 Physical Resistance
(4 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(5 items) When you deal damage, you have a 10% to increase your Weapon Damage by 400 for 5 seconds.
Ravager Set
LEVEL 50 CHAMPION 160
(2 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(3 items) Adds 1206 Max Health
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(5 items) When you deal melee damage, you have an 8% chance to increase your Weapon Damage by 630 for 10 seconds. This effect can occur once every 10 seconds.
Lets say you get 100% uptime on Veiled Heritance (which you wont, but lets say you do) - thats 400 weapon damage. Ravager on a stamplar gets anywhere between 70-80% on my parses. Lets say I get a low end - 70% Thats 630 x .7 = 441 weapon damage. Ravager wins. On high uptime parses where i get 80+% it gives 630 x .8 = 504 wep damage. So Ravager is clearly better. And Yokeda is better than ravager....
You are comparing VH to rav, we never said that they were equal, we said advancing yokuda was practically equal to veiled heritance. Your big long post was for not.
Advancing Yokeda is around 1-2k DPS better than ravager and ravager is 2k+ dps better than Veiled Heritance...so im not sure how my post is not relevant.
It is not relevant for the reasons I stated, you were comparing the wrong sets, Now you need to show how that is possible. Math for VH vs AY. I showed where I get my math.
Do you have any parses?
Do you have a 6 mil parse with Veiled heritance?
Do you have boss fights?
No, but if you follow the link I gave already, @Masel92 does. Simple.
There are no parses...just numbers...its clearly an inferior set. In trials Advancing Yokeda is better than both Ravager and Veiled Heritance, because the weapon damage contribution is diminished. When things like Major Courage and PA are in the mix, they lower the contribution that sets like Ravager and Veiled Heritance. On the other hand advancing yokeda only gets stronger due to an increased Major Force Uptime.
These aren't "just numbers", I verified these calculations through ingame data. I even had a Combat Team Dev read through the post to check for mistakes.
You're right in terms of diminishing returns the more WD you have, but it is also true that you are overstating differences between the sets. Ravager is supposed to be 1-2k better than veiled? That doesn't make sense mathematically at all. Veiled gets a 85-90% uptime, while Ravager does not nearly reach that amount. Getting 60% on ravager is not easily done in most fights that aren't stack and burn like vAA. Ravager is also very unreliable, you'll often proc it when you're about to go to the back bar. It also currently procs off relequen, which will likely change soon, so you can expect your uptime to decrease. If you get that uptime without relequen, I'd be happy to see that in parses. Same holds for selenes, Which has become very popular because of that.
In cloudrest and asylum, I would definitely use veiled over ravager. The fact that your dots proc veiled, while they don't proc ravager is a huge advantage.
But again, the whole discussion is lacklustre, as these Sets are so close to each other that no-one will notice any difference. Every update people argue about these teeny tiny differences.
That wasn't the Devs that decided this was bis/only way to run. That was the players.
Next patch it'll be another raid setup.
The players work with what they are given by the devs. The devs create the math. The players do that math and figure out the best set-up. This is a fictional universe where the devs control everything.
I don't disagree with anything you've said. I disagree that ZOS is responsible for (the generic, not specific) you stacking 7 nb dps in a trial. That was entirely up to the raid, as every single class in the game can pull the dps needed to clear any and all content.
That one would want a score or "the fastest run" is the major driving force behind such a thing. Imagine a world where nb were 199 dps ahead of any other class, who would still get picked?
I mean, there are leaderboards for a reason yeah? Leaderboards created by Zos, that are meant to be topped with the highest score. I agree that all content can be cleared by all classes but people want their runs to go as fast as possible to spend the least amount of time possible in content so that they can run more content. This is just human nature.
As for your question about a world where nb is 199 dps ahead of any other class? I think at some point the difference in dps would cease to matter if it was so minimal and group utility would be brought more into question.
People will always strive to have their runs be the quickest and with the highest score. This will never change. Zos needs to balance with that idea in mind. Zos's job (in my eyes) is to try and make PvE dps as equal across all classes as they possibly can. They make this difficult on themselves by not balancing PvE and PvP separately as they affect one when they change a skill or passive for the other. But that is opening up a whole different can of worms.1 -
MaselClass Representativehedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Veiled Heritance is literally within 2% of yokeda. Wouldn’t label it trash per se.Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Veiled Heritance is literally within 2% of yokeda. Wouldn’t label it trash per se.
see this post if you dont believe us, https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5282363/#Comment_5282363
Guys, I dont need to see the math...I use the set in trials...but since u want math
Armor of the Veiled Heritance Set
LEVEL 50 CHAMPION 160
(2 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(3 items) Adds 2975 Physical Resistance
(4 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(5 items) When you deal damage, you have a 10% to increase your Weapon Damage by 400 for 5 seconds.
Ravager Set
LEVEL 50 CHAMPION 160
(2 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(3 items) Adds 1206 Max Health
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(5 items) When you deal melee damage, you have an 8% chance to increase your Weapon Damage by 630 for 10 seconds. This effect can occur once every 10 seconds.
Lets say you get 100% uptime on Veiled Heritance (which you wont, but lets say you do) - thats 400 weapon damage. Ravager on a stamplar gets anywhere between 70-80% on my parses. Lets say I get a low end - 70% Thats 630 x .7 = 441 weapon damage. Ravager wins. On high uptime parses where i get 80+% it gives 630 x .8 = 504 wep damage. So Ravager is clearly better. And Yokeda is better than ravager....
You are comparing VH to rav, we never said that they were equal, we said advancing yokuda was practically equal to veiled heritance. Your big long post was for not.
Advancing Yokeda is around 1-2k DPS better than ravager and ravager is 2k+ dps better than Veiled Heritance...so im not sure how my post is not relevant.
It is not relevant for the reasons I stated, you were comparing the wrong sets, Now you need to show how that is possible. Math for VH vs AY. I showed where I get my math.
Do you have any parses?
Do you have a 6 mil parse with Veiled heritance?
Do you have boss fights?
No, but if you follow the link I gave already, @Masel92 does. Simple.
There are no parses...just numbers...its clearly an inferior set. In trials Advancing Yokeda is better than both Ravager and Veiled Heritance, because the weapon damage contribution is diminished. When things like Major Courage and PA are in the mix, they lower the contribution that sets like Ravager and Veiled Heritance. On the other hand advancing yokeda only gets stronger due to an increased Major Force Uptime.
These aren't "just numbers", I verified these calculations through ingame data. I even had a Combat Team Dev read through the post to check for mistakes.
You're right in terms of diminishing returns the more WD you have, but it is also true that you are overstating differences between the sets. Ravager is supposed to be 1-2k better than veiled? That doesn't make sense mathematically at all. Veiled gets a 85-90% uptime, while Ravager does not nearly reach that amount. Getting 60% on ravager is not easily done in most fights that aren't stack and burn like vAA. Ravager is also very unreliable, you'll often proc it when you're about to go to the back bar. It also currently procs off relequen, which will likely change soon, so you can expect your uptime to decrease. If you get that uptime without relequen, I'd be happy to see that in parses. Same holds for selenes, Which has become very popular because of that.
In cloudrest and asylum, I would definitely use veiled over ravager. The fact that your dots proc veiled, while they don't proc ravager is a huge advantage.
But again, the whole discussion is lacklustre, as these Sets are so close to each other that no-one will notice any difference. Every update people argue about these teeny tiny differences.
Have you played stamplar in trials man? No offense man, but I dont think you have. I've ran my stamplar in VCR/maw/craglorns. I have never gotten below 70% uptime on ravager. Asylum is a special case, and obviously different. As far as how good each set is and testing. I'm getting high 50k st with ravager, while other stamplars wearing yokeda are getting 60s, so yes there is a difference between those two sets. As far as its significance, that depends on who you ask. To me a 2k difference is significant. Veiled at 100% uptime is already worse than Ravager, so at lower percentages it is even more worse.
As far as combat devs go. The combat team let the current DLC go live where the bis raid team is 7 nightblades 1 sorc (only because of conduit). This is appalling and I have absolutely zero respect for them.
Yes I have, all trials with HM up to vCR +2. If you want to convince me, you'd have to deliver some sort of proof.
As far as the Dev team goes: I am on your side concerning the nb stack, it annoys me because I wanna play the class and spec I wanna play. Not what mechanics force on me.PC EU
All Trial Trifecta Titles Done!
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChVEG6ckuAgGs5OyA6VeisA2 -
DocFrost72✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Apache_Kid wrote: »DocFrost72 wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »DocFrost72 wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »
As far as combat devs go. The combat team let the current DLC go live where the bis raid team is 7 nightblades 1 sorc (only because of conduit). This is appalling and I have absolutely zero respect for them.hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Veiled Heritance is literally within 2% of yokeda. Wouldn’t label it trash per se.Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Veiled Heritance is literally within 2% of yokeda. Wouldn’t label it trash per se.
see this post if you dont believe us, https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5282363/#Comment_5282363
Guys, I dont need to see the math...I use the set in trials...but since u want math
Armor of the Veiled Heritance Set
LEVEL 50 CHAMPION 160
(2 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(3 items) Adds 2975 Physical Resistance
(4 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(5 items) When you deal damage, you have a 10% to increase your Weapon Damage by 400 for 5 seconds.
Ravager Set
LEVEL 50 CHAMPION 160
(2 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(3 items) Adds 1206 Max Health
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(5 items) When you deal melee damage, you have an 8% chance to increase your Weapon Damage by 630 for 10 seconds. This effect can occur once every 10 seconds.
Lets say you get 100% uptime on Veiled Heritance (which you wont, but lets say you do) - thats 400 weapon damage. Ravager on a stamplar gets anywhere between 70-80% on my parses. Lets say I get a low end - 70% Thats 630 x .7 = 441 weapon damage. Ravager wins. On high uptime parses where i get 80+% it gives 630 x .8 = 504 wep damage. So Ravager is clearly better. And Yokeda is better than ravager....
You are comparing VH to rav, we never said that they were equal, we said advancing yokuda was practically equal to veiled heritance. Your big long post was for not.
Advancing Yokeda is around 1-2k DPS better than ravager and ravager is 2k+ dps better than Veiled Heritance...so im not sure how my post is not relevant.
It is not relevant for the reasons I stated, you were comparing the wrong sets, Now you need to show how that is possible. Math for VH vs AY. I showed where I get my math.
Do you have any parses?
Do you have a 6 mil parse with Veiled heritance?
Do you have boss fights?
No, but if you follow the link I gave already, @Masel92 does. Simple.
There are no parses...just numbers...its clearly an inferior set. In trials Advancing Yokeda is better than both Ravager and Veiled Heritance, because the weapon damage contribution is diminished. When things like Major Courage and PA are in the mix, they lower the contribution that sets like Ravager and Veiled Heritance. On the other hand advancing yokeda only gets stronger due to an increased Major Force Uptime.
These aren't "just numbers", I verified these calculations through ingame data. I even had a Combat Team Dev read through the post to check for mistakes.
You're right in terms of diminishing returns the more WD you have, but it is also true that you are overstating differences between the sets. Ravager is supposed to be 1-2k better than veiled? That doesn't make sense mathematically at all. Veiled gets a 85-90% uptime, while Ravager does not nearly reach that amount. Getting 60% on ravager is not easily done in most fights that aren't stack and burn like vAA. Ravager is also very unreliable, you'll often proc it when you're about to go to the back bar. It also currently procs off relequen, which will likely change soon, so you can expect your uptime to decrease. If you get that uptime without relequen, I'd be happy to see that in parses. Same holds for selenes, Which has become very popular because of that.
In cloudrest and asylum, I would definitely use veiled over ravager. The fact that your dots proc veiled, while they don't proc ravager is a huge advantage.
But again, the whole discussion is lacklustre, as these Sets are so close to each other that no-one will notice any difference. Every update people argue about these teeny tiny differences.
That wasn't the Devs that decided this was bis/only way to run. That was the players.
Next patch it'll be another raid setup.
The players work with what they are given by the devs. The devs create the math. The players do that math and figure out the best set-up. This is a fictional universe where the devs control everything.
I don't disagree with anything you've said. I disagree that ZOS is responsible for (the generic, not specific) you stacking 7 nb dps in a trial. That was entirely up to the raid, as every single class in the game can pull the dps needed to clear any and all content.
That one would want a score or "the fastest run" is the major driving force behind such a thing. Imagine a world where nb were 199 dps ahead of any other class, who would still get picked?
I mean, there are leaderboards for a reason yeah? Leaderboards created by Zos, that are meant to be topped with the highest score. I agree that all content can be cleared by all classes but people want their runs to go as fast as possible to spend the least amount of time possible in content so that they can run more content. This is just human nature.
As for your question about a world where nb is 199 dps ahead of any other class? I think at some point the difference in dps would cease to matter if it was so minimal and group utility would be brought more into question.
People will always strive to have their runs be the quickest and with the highest score. This will never change. Zos needs to balance with that idea in mind. Zos's job (in my eyes) is to try and make PvE dps as equal across all classes as they possibly can. They make this difficult on themselves by not balancing PvE and PvP separately as they affect one when they change a skill or passive for the other. But that is opening up a whole different can of worms.
I can entirely respect and appreciate your view, even if I do not share it. In my opinion (which is largely irrelevant as I am not the combat team) damage should be kept within the threshold you correctly listed as "minimal". They also do shoot themselves in the foot not balancing pve and pvp seperately. On that we entirely agree. What gets my goat is that zos is supposed to have the same level of vision over the implications of certain content, sets, and boss mechanics as millions of players. I give them leniency because there's no way they know as much as a full community connected through other media like discord and websites sharing information.
TLDR: What matters (to me) is if they try to fix when damage goes way out of whack between sets or classes. This will almost always be retroactive.
Edited by DocFrost72 on July 24, 2018 4:17PM1