The effect of MMR on leaderboards

React · June 2018

Prior to summerset, the top of the BG leaderboards were generally dominated by the people who played the most, as they should have been. There was some variability in the sense that a high skill player could score much higher in deathmatch, thus advancing their progress up the leaderboard quicker, and the same went for objective focused players in objective modes. However what it usually boiled down to was simply who put the most time into just queuing into games and playing them out.

With the new MMR system creating extremely long ques for "high MMR" players, a massive imbalance has been created on the leaderboard system. Since morrowind's release, I've been one of the most active battlegrounds players on my server. I've easily played 2,500-3,000 games, the vast majority being on my main character. In previous patches, i would always be in the top 10 on all 3 boards at leaderboard close, even though i exclusively played deathmatch (never once played for the objective when queuing into objective modes, every game was "tdm").

Now, when on my main character, I wait anywhere from 10 minutes to an hour, depending on who else with high MMR is queuing at the time. As such, I am playing a severely reduced number of games per hour, and thus my chances at being on top of the leaderboards are completely non-existent. Even just getting on the leaderboards for the rewards is a chore, because of the long que times coupled with the plethora of bugs plaguing BG's on XB NA. I'm approaching max PvP rank on my main, and as such I've been discouraged from creating an alt of the same class to get quick ques. Interestingly enough, I can hop onto my stamblade, warden, or sorc and get instant ques against players I've NEVER encountered on my main. I do not even encounter the top 10 players when playing on my main. They are low MMR players who are queuing into more games and rising through the leaderboards quicker than I can, simply because they have a low mmr.

I know there are numerous threads about this now, and several of them have plenty of time invested in them. I just wanted to share my own experience, and the conclusion of imbalance that I have drawn. Excellent job zenimax, you have ruined BG's for the players who love them the most.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_RichLambert

wheem_ESO · June 2018

I think the leaderboards should be based on average score, rather than cumulative score. Maybe require some minimum number of games of a given "type," so that you won't have someone queue a CTR and run 5 relics with a speed set and call it a week. But between the long queues that you mention, and individual variations in available playing time, I don't really like the way the current leaderboard system works.

WrathOfInnos · June 2018

Liam12548 wrote: »

i exclusively played deathmatch (never once played for the objective when queuing into objective modes, every game was "tdm").

I’ve only done maybe 50-100 BGs, so correct me if I’m wrong here. Are you saying that you intentionally ignore the onjectives that earn you points and wins in all but one game mode? You do a different activity that does nothing for score, and then are surprised that you are not high on the leaderboard?

The few times I’ve played an objective game like it was death match, I ended with a relatively high kill to death ratio (maybe 30:5), and had almost no points for the game (less than 1k), and lost. Needless to say I stopped doing this.

React · June 2018

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Liam12548 wrote: »

i exclusively played deathmatch (never once played for the objective when queuing into objective modes, every game was "tdm").

I’ve only done maybe 50-100 BGs, so correct me if I’m wrong here. Are you saying that you intentionally ignore the onjectives that earn you points and wins in all but one game mode? You do a different activity that does nothing for score, and then are surprised that you are not high on the leaderboard?

The few times I’ve played an objective game like it was death match, I ended with a relatively high kill to death ratio (maybe 30:5), and had almost no points for the game (less than 1k), and lost. Needless to say I stopped doing this.

This was in previous patches. In previous patches, death match was by far the least common game mode, but I only played bgs for no cp combat (which is far more balanced and skill based, niche cheese setups aside, than cp). As such, when entering objective modes I would simply play tdm. HOWEVER, even playing for kills I would still be at the top of the leaderboards because I played the most (and if my teammates were half decent, they'd capitalize on me killing teams of 4 by myself by winning the game). Funny enough, you can actually earn far more medal/leaderboard points by killing people on and around objectives than you can from actually playing the objective (for example, by holding both relics on one team and farming the other teams for kills, your whole team would end up with 5k+ medal score).

This patch, I had intended to only que for death match, but with the que times being so insanely long, I've found that random ques will yield a slightly shorter que time than deathmatch exclusive ques. By my logic, you would think I would still be on top of the TDM leaderboards, at the very least. But because of the severely reduced number of games I get to play because of my high mmr (usually 1-2 games an hour, max), I struggle to get on any leaderboard because the population has risen in the lower mmr bracket so much, that they are playing 4 or 5x the games I get to play and proceeded up the leaderboards faster than I can keep up with.

Qwazzy · June 2018

Clearly being the best aside. The queue times are getting long, and that's not fun.

HEBREWHAMMERRR · June 2018

Liam12548 wrote: »

Prior to summerset, the top of the BG leaderboards were generally dominated by the people who played the most, as they should have been. There was some variability in the sense that a high skill player could score much higher in deathmatch, thus advancing their progress up the leaderboard quicker, and the same went for objective focused players in objective modes. However what it usually boiled down to was simply who put the most time into just queuing into games and playing them out.

With the new MMR system creating extremely long ques for "high MMR" players, a massive imbalance has been created on the leaderboard system. Since morrowind's release, I've been one of the most active battlegrounds players on my server. I've easily played 2,500-3,000 games, the vast majority being on my main character. In previous patches, i would always be in the top 10 on all 3 boards at leaderboard close, even though i exclusively played deathmatch (never once played for the objective when queuing into objective modes, every game was "tdm").

Now, when on my main character, I wait anywhere from 10 minutes to an hour, depending on who else with high MMR is queuing at the time. As such, I am playing a severely reduced number of games per hour, and thus my chances at being on top of the leaderboards are completely non-existent. Even just getting on the leaderboards for the rewards is a chore, because of the long que times coupled with the plethora of bugs plaguing BG's on XB NA. I'm approaching max PvP rank on my main, and as such I've been discouraged from creating an alt of the same class to get quick ques. Interestingly enough, I can hop onto my stamblade, warden, or sorc and get instant ques against players I've NEVER encountered on my main. I do not even encounter the top 10 players when playing on my main. They are low MMR players who are queuing into more games and rising through the leaderboards quicker than I can, simply because they have a low mmr.

I know there are numerous threads about this now, and several of them have plenty of time invested in them. I just wanted to share my own experience, and the conclusion of imbalance that I have drawn. Excellent job zenimax, you have ruined BG's for the players who love them the most.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_RichLambert

This is a very valid point. I hardly get in 2 games an hour on my main, I pretty much gave up trying to BG altogether with him because of the volume of games per que time I’m getting. Then, when I do get in to a game solo que I’m stacked vs some sweaty premade that will crush me with no team coordination. The MMR is a very welcome change but needs some tweaks and reworks because right now, it’s got some glaring issues.

Also, for what it’s worth, I can hop on my sorc, have instant ques versus players I never encounter otherwise. Not only can I knock out many more games, im facing lesser competition and putting up crazy high scores of like 6k+ just endless furying my way to victory (that’s a whole different conversation that needs to be had.)

LokoMatic · June 2018

Yeah thanks a lot Zos. I'd rather be at the DMV than wait in the BG que these days.

Kazokio_Dave · June 2018

Yeah they need to fix this MMR system its not even fun having to wait 30 minutes every time to play a battleground match.

Swimguy · June 2018

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

Liam12548 wrote: »

Prior to summerset, the top of the BG leaderboards were generally dominated by the people who played the most, as they should have been. There was some variability in the sense that a high skill player could score much higher in deathmatch, thus advancing their progress up the leaderboard quicker, and the same went for objective focused players in objective modes. However what it usually boiled down to was simply who put the most time into just queuing into games and playing them out.

With the new MMR system creating extremely long ques for "high MMR" players, a massive imbalance has been created on the leaderboard system. Since morrowind's release, I've been one of the most active battlegrounds players on my server. I've easily played 2,500-3,000 games, the vast majority being on my main character. In previous patches, i would always be in the top 10 on all 3 boards at leaderboard close, even though i exclusively played deathmatch (never once played for the objective when queuing into objective modes, every game was "tdm").

Now, when on my main character, I wait anywhere from 10 minutes to an hour, depending on who else with high MMR is queuing at the time. As such, I am playing a severely reduced number of games per hour, and thus my chances at being on top of the leaderboards are completely non-existent. Even just getting on the leaderboards for the rewards is a chore, because of the long que times coupled with the plethora of bugs plaguing BG's on XB NA. I'm approaching max PvP rank on my main, and as such I've been discouraged from creating an alt of the same class to get quick ques. Interestingly enough, I can hop onto my stamblade, warden, or sorc and get instant ques against players I've NEVER encountered on my main. I do not even encounter the top 10 players when playing on my main. They are low MMR players who are queuing into more games and rising through the leaderboards quicker than I can, simply because they have a low mmr.

I know there are numerous threads about this now, and several of them have plenty of time invested in them. I just wanted to share my own experience, and the conclusion of imbalance that I have drawn. Excellent job zenimax, you have ruined BG's for the players who love them the most.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_RichLambert

This is a very valid point. I hardly get in 2 games an hour on my main, I pretty much gave up trying to BG altogether with him because of the volume of games per que time I’m getting. Then, when I do get in to a game solo que I’m stacked vs some sweaty premade that will crush me with no team coordination. The MMR is a very welcome change but needs some tweaks and reworks because right now, it’s got some glaring issues.

Also, for what it’s worth, I can hop on my sorc, have instant ques versus players I never encounter otherwise. Not only can I knock out many more games, im facing lesser competition and putting up crazy high scores of like 6k+ just endless furying my way to victory (that’s a whole different conversation that needs to be had.)

wait I was told MMR is account wide..

React · June 2018

Swimguy wrote: »

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

Liam12548 wrote: »

Prior to summerset, the top of the BG leaderboards were generally dominated by the people who played the most, as they should have been. There was some variability in the sense that a high skill player could score much higher in deathmatch, thus advancing their progress up the leaderboard quicker, and the same went for objective focused players in objective modes. However what it usually boiled down to was simply who put the most time into just queuing into games and playing them out.

With the new MMR system creating extremely long ques for "high MMR" players, a massive imbalance has been created on the leaderboard system. Since morrowind's release, I've been one of the most active battlegrounds players on my server. I've easily played 2,500-3,000 games, the vast majority being on my main character. In previous patches, i would always be in the top 10 on all 3 boards at leaderboard close, even though i exclusively played deathmatch (never once played for the objective when queuing into objective modes, every game was "tdm").

Now, when on my main character, I wait anywhere from 10 minutes to an hour, depending on who else with high MMR is queuing at the time. As such, I am playing a severely reduced number of games per hour, and thus my chances at being on top of the leaderboards are completely non-existent. Even just getting on the leaderboards for the rewards is a chore, because of the long que times coupled with the plethora of bugs plaguing BG's on XB NA. I'm approaching max PvP rank on my main, and as such I've been discouraged from creating an alt of the same class to get quick ques. Interestingly enough, I can hop onto my stamblade, warden, or sorc and get instant ques against players I've NEVER encountered on my main. I do not even encounter the top 10 players when playing on my main. They are low MMR players who are queuing into more games and rising through the leaderboards quicker than I can, simply because they have a low mmr.

I know there are numerous threads about this now, and several of them have plenty of time invested in them. I just wanted to share my own experience, and the conclusion of imbalance that I have drawn. Excellent job zenimax, you have ruined BG's for the players who love them the most.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_RichLambert

This is a very valid point. I hardly get in 2 games an hour on my main, I pretty much gave up trying to BG altogether with him because of the volume of games per que time I’m getting. Then, when I do get in to a game solo que I’m stacked vs some sweaty premade that will crush me with no team coordination. The MMR is a very welcome change but needs some tweaks and reworks because right now, it’s got some glaring issues.

Also, for what it’s worth, I can hop on my sorc, have instant ques versus players I never encounter otherwise. Not only can I knock out many more games, im facing lesser competition and putting up crazy high scores of like 6k+ just endless furying my way to victory (that’s a whole different conversation that needs to be had.)

wait I was told MMR is account wide..

Nope, Character Specific

DirtyWizard · June 2018

Everyone in this thread destroys me in BG's, but I would still rather encounter that than never play. I have enjoyed playing BG's since their inception, but as mentioned, I can effectively no longer play them on my main character. Had a queue time of over two hours the other day, forgot I was even in it. This is not a game like Call of Duty or Halo where you have potentially thousands of people in a lobby or queue. I would estimate there are probably 100 or less people queuing for Battlegrounds at any given time on Xbox, obviously have no statistics to back that up, just observation on how many unique names I encounter.

It is a good idea to have the system in place to match up people who are more experienced, but it is has made getting games nearly impossible.

max_only · July 2018

Noob question what is mmr?

VaranisArano · July 2018

max_only wrote: »

Noob question what is mmr?

Match-making Ranking. Its a measure of player/group skill that's used to sort the battlegrounds queue so that people fight more often against players of a similar MMR.

ZOS introduced it with Summerset and doesn't seem to quite have it dialed in yet. Some high MMR players are struglling to get timely queues and some low MMR players are still complaining about seeing lots of premade groups. So there's probably improvement to be made, but how exactly that should happen is up for debate.

ReName · July 2018

WOULD BE NICE IF YOU GET 2 TOONS IN THERE BOTH SHOULD BE REWARDED but no only one get rewarded they should fix that first

Thogard · July 2018

ReName wrote: »

WOULD BE NICE IF YOU GET 2 TOONS IN THERE BOTH SHOULD BE REWARDED but no only one get rewarded they should fix that first

It is like that. You can get rewards on multiple toons.

ReName · July 2018

i Know you should get them on multiple toons but that is not the case

me and 3 friends off my on the xbox one played on 2 toons both where in the leader boards off flag games,land grab,team death

but only 1 of our toons got reward.

and this happed 2 weeks in a row and still till today only 1 toon get the gold reward from the weekly leader boards

they should fix this bug asap.

you cant earn multiple gold rewards

Komputerheld · July 2018

At least for me, BG´s and MMR are currently very good ... But I´m also milliions miles away from top leaderbord.
Usally, I don´t have to wait not more than 10 mins as single player and the other players fit very well for me and so i managed to get all the nice titles rather quickly.

(I guess, my MMR-rank is quite low, but I´m playing only 1-3 BGs per day)
Is it possibly to see your own MMR-Rank somewhere?

generalmyrick · July 2018

what's used to measure skill? the math is what im asking about.

and for instance...i suck and mostly heal...so i don't score a lot of points. would that give me a low mmr, and so get more quicker matches/q?

Thogard · July 2018

Komputerheld wrote: »

At least for me, BG´s and MMR are currently very good ... But I´m also milliions miles away from top leaderbord.
Usally, I don´t have to wait not more than 10 mins as single player and the other players fit very well for me and so i managed to get all the nice titles rather quickly. (I guess, my MMR-rank is quite low, but I´m playing only 1-3 BGs per day)
Is it possibly to see your own MMR-Rank somewhere?

Sadly no, it’s not possible.

generalmyrick wrote: »

what's used to measure skill? the math is what im asking about.

and for instance...i suck and mostly heal...so i don't score a lot of points. would that give me a low mmr, and so get more quicker matches/q?

There is no measure of skill. We used to be able to use things like win rate and K/D ratios, but now with MMR a brand new toon will have the best K/D because it’ll have the easiest opponents.

No way to know.