How Do You Measure Your DPS

Dimski · July 2018

I've been doing a good number of random normal dungeons lately (cp460). I've got the "Combat Metrics" addon installed and keep peeking at the damage percentage a lot. In some groups I do something like 30% of the damage, most of the time it's closer to 50% and in some cases it's more like 65-80%. Thus, I am feeling pretty fine with my performance.

However, when I look at absolute numbers I see DPS from 8k to rarely 25k, which makes me wonder. I see so many here mentioning numbers of 30, 40 and 50k. To level the playing field, I need to know how they measure their numbers and what tool they are using to measure.

Guppet · July 2018

Target dummy. Buy one off the AH, use your guilds or do the quest in clockwork city to get a free one. It’s a long quest.

You literally just do your rotation till you destroy it, then it will tell you.

You need to stick it in your house or garden if you have one.

Sparr0w · July 2018

Get a dummy and combat metrics. Hit the dummy until it dies (3 mil is best to practice on imo) then check combat metrics for how you did.

Camb0Sl1ce · July 2018

Most of the time when people refer to 30k, 40k and 50k they mean their sustained dps on a target dummy.

Nestor · July 2018

Training Dummies do not reflect real world. They stand in one place and do not attack back. So you can stand in one plave and run a perfect rotation on them. So, sure you can pull high numbers.

In a dungeon, you spend, or should spend about half your time blocking, dodge rolling, moving around, getting position etc. So, your DPS is going to be lower.

When I heal and see a DPS just stand in one place like they are attacking a Training Dummy, I tend to forget to heal them.

Unless your in the few dungeons that have a DPS check, you dont really need to have super high levels to prevail, even if your going for Speed Runs. Although it can help come Vet Trials, and more so chasing Leaderboard times.

So, are the mobs dieing before you do? Your doing enough DPS for the content you are doing.

AcadianPaladin · July 2018

My guild has a 3M target dummy if I want a 'real' dps check. The guild also has that lower hp talking Clockwork dummy which is very handy for a simple quick (albeit less accurate due to short duration) check. I don't run Combat Metrics or any similar addons.

danno8 · July 2018

They use combat metrics, just like you.

When people post their DPS numbers, it is assumed to be single target dummy parses unless otherwise stated. They will also usually state "self-buffed, debuffed" indicating they had no outside help at all.

Those 50k+ parses that some can pull off are wearing the best gear in the game, all gold, best class (some classes are much higher DPS right now than others). Sometimes the parses are a little bit misleading since they are done on a 3m dummy which is not indicative of sustain. When done on a 6m dummy the numbers will typically drop several thousand.

Most people can reach the 20-30k DPS mark self buffed/debuffed, which is good enough to clear all normal and veteran dungeons in the game.

Sparr0w · July 2018

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

My guild has a 3M target dummy if I want a 'real' dps check. The guild also has that lower hp talking Clockwork dummy which is very handy for a simple quick (albeit less accurate due to short duration) check. I don't run Combat Metrics or any similar addons.

I hit almost double on the precursor than on a 3m

Drdeath20 · July 2018

Nestor wrote: »

Training Dummies do not reflect real world. They stand in one place and do not attack back. So you can stand in one plave and run a perfect rotation on them. So, sure you can pull high numbers.

In a dungeon, you spend, or should spend about half your time blocking, dodge rolling, moving around, getting position etc. So, your DPS is going to be lower.

When I heal and see a DPS just stand in one place like they are attacking a Training Dummy, I tend to forget to heal them.

Unless your in the few dungeons that have a DPS check, you dont really need to have super high levels to prevail, even if your going for Speed Runs. Although it can help come Vet Trials, and more so chasing Leaderboard times.

So, are the mobs dieing before you do? Your doing enough DPS for the content you are doing.

While i will aggree that hitting 50k dps on a dummy really does not translate to doing 50k dps on a boss it does however show that in optimum conditions, you have the right gear/rotation and skill to be an effective damage dealer.

Your assertation is that if you deal damage and things eventually die before you do that you are a damage dealer. This is wrong because tanks and healers could fall into that category. Just because you deal damage it does not make you a damage dealer. Que up as 1 and hope im not in your group. If we struggle by the 3rd trash mob you will be kicked. Sometimes even quicker

Bladerunner1 · July 2018

When queuing up four player dungeons I measure the DPS of the first trash pull by whether or not everything is dead in ten seconds or less. That's the pace I like, and it's going to happen one way or the other. If it takes longer than 10 seconds for any reason whatsoever, tank not pulling mobs into a single pile or if Combat Metrics shows I'm doing 75% of the AOE dps, then I'll slot even more AOE splash damage and assume I'm in charge of surviving more than my share of the aggro. The downside is I'm sacrificing a little single target DPS, so a boss fight will last 5 seconds longer. Whooptydoo, I'm getting through it faster on the whole.

The exact DPS numbers on a single target dummy aren't all that meaningful in practice, don't expect to see them every time in a boss fight. Learn the rotation and get the number as high as you can, that's all it is used for.

You can build to have the highest single target DPS possible and still have a really slow pace in dungeons. For instance if you are running a vet pledge with a mage DD who has only two AOE skills slotted and fire staff on both bars you're going to be in the dungeon longer than you have to be.

Nestor · July 2018

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Training Dummies do not reflect real world. They stand in one place and do not attack back. So you can stand in one plave and run a perfect rotation on them. So, sure you can pull high numbers.

In a dungeon, you spend, or should spend about half your time blocking, dodge rolling, moving around, getting position etc. So, your DPS is going to be lower.

When I heal and see a DPS just stand in one place like they are attacking a Training Dummy, I tend to forget to heal them.

Unless your in the few dungeons that have a DPS check, you dont really need to have super high levels to prevail, even if your going for Speed Runs. Although it can help come Vet Trials, and more so chasing Leaderboard times.

So, are the mobs dieing before you do? Your doing enough DPS for the content you are doing.

While i will aggree that hitting 50k dps on a dummy really does not translate to doing 50k dps on a boss it does however show that in optimum conditions, you have the right gear/rotation and skill to be an effective damage dealer.

Your assertation is that if you deal damage and things eventually die before you do that you are a damage dealer. This is wrong because tanks and healers could fall into that category. Just because you deal damage it does not make you a damage dealer. Que up as 1 and hope im not in your group. If we struggle by the 3rd trash mob you will be kicked. Sometimes even quicker

[snip] I will be doing so much DPS you wont have anything to target. So perhaps I will be kicking you. Or maybe I will just forget to heal you and you will leave the group...

Relax Clarence, you dont have to run every single thing in the game like its a Vet Trial and you want to be number 1 on the leaderboard.

[Edited for rude comments]

DMuehlhausen · July 2018

Does stuff die? Yes
Does the group finish the dungeon in a reasonable time? Yes

Your DPS is fine

DenMoria · July 2018

With an Abacus.

danno8 · July 2018

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

Does stuff die? Yes
Does the group finish the dungeon in a reasonable time? Yes

Your DPS is fine

Some people, especially new people, would like to test if they are ready for dungeons before they put themselves in a dungeon scenario though.

It makes them feel more comfortable if they feel as though they are prepared. Some even look up mechanics so they know what to expect.

JaZ2091 · July 2018

Guppet wrote: »

From the base of the shaft, on top.

Then multiply by 100 to get the Internet E Version.

logarifmik · July 2018

I just run veteran dungeons. So far everything was alright, and no one complained about me, actually quite opposite. And I don't use any kind of battle metrics addons, not interested in them. I think, it should be clear without any numbers, can you pull end-game content or not.

Jolipinator · July 2018

I time how long it takes for me to get kicked.

LeagueTroll · July 2018

Nestor wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Training Dummies do not reflect real world. They stand in one place and do not attack back. So you can stand in one plave and run a perfect rotation on them. So, sure you can pull high numbers.

In a dungeon, you spend, or should spend about half your time blocking, dodge rolling, moving around, getting position etc. So, your DPS is going to be lower.

When I heal and see a DPS just stand in one place like they are attacking a Training Dummy, I tend to forget to heal them.

Unless your in the few dungeons that have a DPS check, you dont really need to have super high levels to prevail, even if your going for Speed Runs. Although it can help come Vet Trials, and more so chasing Leaderboard times.

So, are the mobs dieing before you do? Your doing enough DPS for the content you are doing.

While i will aggree that hitting 50k dps on a dummy really does not translate to doing 50k dps on a boss it does however show that in optimum conditions, you have the right gear/rotation and skill to be an effective damage dealer.

Your assertation is that if you deal damage and things eventually die before you do that you are a damage dealer. This is wrong because tanks and healers could fall into that category. Just because you deal damage it does not make you a damage dealer. Que up as 1 and hope im not in your group. If we struggle by the 3rd trash mob you will be kicked. Sometimes even quicker

The Elitiism is strong with you. I will be doing so much DPS you wont have anything to target. So perhaps I will be kicking you. Or maybe I will just forget to heal you and you will leave the group...

Relax Clarence, you dont have to run every single thing in the game like its a Vet Trial and you want to be number 1 on the leaderboard.

Yeah, i’d take @Drdeath20 side all day. Surviving or not, I don’t like way below median free loaders, they don’t pay me, I should not carry them.

DenMoria · July 2018

LeagueTroll wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Training Dummies do not reflect real world. They stand in one place and do not attack back. So you can stand in one plave and run a perfect rotation on them. So, sure you can pull high numbers.

In a dungeon, you spend, or should spend about half your time blocking, dodge rolling, moving around, getting position etc. So, your DPS is going to be lower.

When I heal and see a DPS just stand in one place like they are attacking a Training Dummy, I tend to forget to heal them.

Unless your in the few dungeons that have a DPS check, you dont really need to have super high levels to prevail, even if your going for Speed Runs. Although it can help come Vet Trials, and more so chasing Leaderboard times.

So, are the mobs dieing before you do? Your doing enough DPS for the content you are doing.

While i will aggree that hitting 50k dps on a dummy really does not translate to doing 50k dps on a boss it does however show that in optimum conditions, you have the right gear/rotation and skill to be an effective damage dealer.

Your assertation is that if you deal damage and things eventually die before you do that you are a damage dealer. This is wrong because tanks and healers could fall into that category. Just because you deal damage it does not make you a damage dealer. Que up as 1 and hope im not in your group. If we struggle by the 3rd trash mob you will be kicked. Sometimes even quicker

The Elitiism is strong with you. I will be doing so much DPS you wont have anything to target. So perhaps I will be kicking you. Or maybe I will just forget to heal you and you will leave the group...

Relax Clarence, you dont have to run every single thing in the game like its a Vet Trial and you want to be number 1 on the leaderboard.

Yeah, i’d take @Drdeath20 side all day. Surviving or not, I don’t like way below median free loaders, they don’t pay me, I should not carry them.

I wonder how you will feel when you're on that end of the stick. I can guarantee you that there are plenty of elite players out there that would be more than happy to treat you in that way because you are sub-standard to them.

Merlin13KAGL · July 2018

Not every fight is going to allow your max single target to shine though, so the % is a better indicator, imo.

Sometimes you have to rez - you're not single targeting while that happens.
Sometimes bosses shield up or have mechanics where they stop taking damage entirely.
Survivability will forgo DPS in some cases.
Same with movement, high mobility fights will see a decrease in DPS

Unless you're trying for leaderboard or some of the really tricky hard modes, if you're at least doing your share of the DPS (sounds like you are), stuffs dying, and fights are not taking 10 minutes on trash mobs, you're fine.

As has been mentioned, the baseline comparison that's usually spoken of is Single Target self buffed on a 6M dummy. Even then, you'll get variances from a number of factors.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · July 2018

Nestor wrote: »

Training Dummies do not reflect real world. They stand in one place and do not attack back. So you can stand in one plave and run a perfect rotation on them. So, sure you can pull high numbers.

In a dungeon, you spend, or should spend about half your time blocking, dodge rolling, moving around, getting position etc. So, your DPS is going to be lower.

When I heal and see a DPS just stand in one place like they are attacking a Training Dummy, I tend to forget to heal them.

Unless your in the few dungeons that have a DPS check, you dont really need to have super high levels to prevail, even if your going for Speed Runs. Although it can help come Vet Trials, and more so chasing Leaderboard times.

So, are the mobs dieing before you do? Your doing enough DPS for the content you are doing.

I am sorry, but that is just not true. In almost no fight are you moving or in defensive mode for 50% of the time. Sure, you need to do those things, but if you spend half the time running around or blocking, your DPS is going to be bad. In most fights, you want to avoid movement as much as possible. In fact, one of the first things I had to beat out of myself was the instinct to strafe while I DPSed like I was playing a shooter. Find your spot, work your rotation, move when you need to for mechanics, and then stand still. If you are dancing around all over the place your DPS is going to suffer, and so will your survivablility.

Of course, your single target DPS and rotation on a dummy is going to be hard to simulate in real content because things do in fact change, but also acting like a dummy parse is the ceiling is also just plain false. If you pull 40k on a dummy, you should be able to 50+ in a single target fight with buffs. More if its a full raid, and even more if there are adds and you are counting total DPS. Replicating target dummy DPS in a real world fight is very much doable and is in fact the goal. It comes down to 2 things, mechanics and rotation. The reason people spend hours pounding on a dummy is so the rotation part is second nature, and they can keep it up will respecting mechanics for the most part.

To the OP. 8-25k total DPS is honestly not a lot. Normal content can be a little hard to really measure because fights dont last that long, but I am not surprised you are pulling the percents you are pulling because group finder dungeons are notoriously low. When I tank them, I see group damage of less than 25k all the time.

Will that get you through normal content? Yep! But normal content is an extremely low benchmark by design. They want a group of really inexperienced players to finish the content just about every time, so the difficulty is tuned accordingly. Normal content can be soloed quite easily with very few exceptions (some mechanics simply require 2 players) by experienced players. If you have no interest in vet content, then honestly it doesnt matter.

However, if you are here asking the question, my guess is that you want to improve. The place to start is of course a dummy. Any class at your CP should be able to pull 20-25k sustained DPS on a 3 million health dummy if their build at least passes the smell test and rotation is above average. With BIS gear and Rotation, at your CP, you should be in the 30's. With max CP and gear, every class in this game can break 40k single target, and some can break 50k and beyond completely self buffed. You should not expect to do that over night, but that is where people are at with end game trial gear, not counting specific cheese builds and rotations designed to inflate parses.

Most of the time, when people claim to be a 35k DPS or whatever, they are talking about a dummy parse. Most End Game guilds use the 6 million dummy as the benchmark, but there is certainly value in practicing on a 3 mill. If you look at combat metrics, it will tell group DPS, your percent, your total DPS (which includes adds) and the single target done to a boss. End game players typically care about ST damage, because that is what primarly affects score, but splash or cleave damage is not to be ignored. You will often see people post numbers like (just making this up): Mage Hardmode: 65k/40k. What that would mean is that their total damage on the fight was 65k and they did 40k just to the boss. Context matters with DPS.

Odovacar · July 2018

I use my test dummy at my house (3-mill) to become adept at rotation, and rotation only (ani-canceling too). My sustained DPS read back to me (just in my opinion) I would guess, would be 15-20 % less that what my actual output is during in-game content, however, my rotation skills continue to become more consistent. Its always a work in progress.

MLGProPlayer · July 2018

Nestor wrote: »

Training Dummies do not reflect real world. They stand in one place and do not attack back. So you can stand in one plave and run a perfect rotation on them. So, sure you can pull high numbers.

In a dungeon, you spend, or should spend about half your time blocking, dodge rolling, moving around, getting position etc. So, your DPS is going to be lower.

When I heal and see a DPS just stand in one place like they are attacking a Training Dummy, I tend to forget to heal them.

Unless your in the few dungeons that have a DPS check, you dont really need to have super high levels to prevail, even if your going for Speed Runs. Although it can help come Vet Trials, and more so chasing Leaderboard times.

So, are the mobs dieing before you do? Your doing enough DPS for the content you are doing.

DPS test is important because it helps you master your rotation.

MLGProPlayer · July 2018

DenMoria wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Training Dummies do not reflect real world. They stand in one place and do not attack back. So you can stand in one plave and run a perfect rotation on them. So, sure you can pull high numbers.

In a dungeon, you spend, or should spend about half your time blocking, dodge rolling, moving around, getting position etc. So, your DPS is going to be lower.

When I heal and see a DPS just stand in one place like they are attacking a Training Dummy, I tend to forget to heal them.

Unless your in the few dungeons that have a DPS check, you dont really need to have super high levels to prevail, even if your going for Speed Runs. Although it can help come Vet Trials, and more so chasing Leaderboard times.

So, are the mobs dieing before you do? Your doing enough DPS for the content you are doing.

While i will aggree that hitting 50k dps on a dummy really does not translate to doing 50k dps on a boss it does however show that in optimum conditions, you have the right gear/rotation and skill to be an effective damage dealer.

Your assertation is that if you deal damage and things eventually die before you do that you are a damage dealer. This is wrong because tanks and healers could fall into that category. Just because you deal damage it does not make you a damage dealer. Que up as 1 and hope im not in your group. If we struggle by the 3rd trash mob you will be kicked. Sometimes even quicker

The Elitiism is strong with you. I will be doing so much DPS you wont have anything to target. So perhaps I will be kicking you. Or maybe I will just forget to heal you and you will leave the group...

Relax Clarence, you dont have to run every single thing in the game like its a Vet Trial and you want to be number 1 on the leaderboard.

Yeah, i’d take @Drdeath20 side all day. Surviving or not, I don’t like way below median free loaders, they don’t pay me, I should not carry them.

I wonder how you will feel when you're on that end of the stick. I can guarantee you that there are plenty of elite players out there that would be more than happy to treat you in that way because you are sub-standard to them.

If you're dealing more than enough DPS to clear the content, you're not being carried. You're only being carried of you wouldn't be able to clear the content without the other DPS.

MLGProPlayer · July 2018

Guppet wrote: »

Target dummy. Buy one off the AH, use your guilds or do the quest in clockwork city to get a free one. It’s a long quest.

You literally just do your rotation till you destroy it, then it will tell you.

You need to stick it in your house or garden if you have one.

Don't use the Clockwork City dummy. It only has 300k health. It dies in a few seconds.

You need the 3 million or 6 million health option from guild traders. Or use one in a friend's/guildmate's house.

MLGProPlayer · July 2018

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Not every fight is going to allow your max single target to shine though, so the % is a better indicator, imo.
Sometimes you have to rez - you're not single targeting while that happens.

Sometimes bosses shield up or have mechanics where they stop taking damage entirely.

Survivability will forgo DPS in some cases.

Same with movement, high mobility fights will see a decrease in DPS

Unless you're trying for leaderboard or some of the really tricky hard modes, if you're at least doing your share of the DPS (sounds like you are), stuffs dying, and fights are not taking 10 minutes on trash mobs, you're fine.

As has been mentioned, the baseline comparison that's usually spoken of is Single Target self buffed on a 6M dummy. Even then, you'll get variances from a number of factors.

30-50% DPS on normal dungeons for a CP 460 sounds kind of low (unless their teammates are similarly high level).

Anyhow, measuring DPS in normal dungeons is difficult due to low enemy health/resistance. You need to be in vet dungeons for a more accurate picture.

Nestor · July 2018

@Oreyn_Bearclaw

I said about half the time, that presupposes a range. Exactly would be 50% Anyway, my point is, what you can do with a training dummy does not mean your going to pull the same numbers in a boss fight. And, any DPS that just stands there in Red so they can eek out a few more DPS deserves to wipe. If you need to move, move, if you need to mitigate, then do so. Cant do DPS when your dead.

@MLGProPlayer Of course working on your rotation is going to make you do more DPS. Your just not going to pull a perfect rotation while in combat.

My point is you dont need to do the theoretical max DPS in every fight in this game. Do the DPS you need do to for the content you are doing. If you want to do more, fine. Do more. But it does not change the outcome, mobs are dead and your moving on to the next fight. If your group wants to move along faster, then do what you need to do to help make that happen. If your chasing leaderboards, then do what you need to do.

DenMoria · July 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

DenMoria wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Training Dummies do not reflect real world. They stand in one place and do not attack back. So you can stand in one plave and run a perfect rotation on them. So, sure you can pull high numbers.

In a dungeon, you spend, or should spend about half your time blocking, dodge rolling, moving around, getting position etc. So, your DPS is going to be lower.

When I heal and see a DPS just stand in one place like they are attacking a Training Dummy, I tend to forget to heal them.

Unless your in the few dungeons that have a DPS check, you dont really need to have super high levels to prevail, even if your going for Speed Runs. Although it can help come Vet Trials, and more so chasing Leaderboard times.

So, are the mobs dieing before you do? Your doing enough DPS for the content you are doing.

While i will aggree that hitting 50k dps on a dummy really does not translate to doing 50k dps on a boss it does however show that in optimum conditions, you have the right gear/rotation and skill to be an effective damage dealer.

Your assertation is that if you deal damage and things eventually die before you do that you are a damage dealer. This is wrong because tanks and healers could fall into that category. Just because you deal damage it does not make you a damage dealer. Que up as 1 and hope im not in your group. If we struggle by the 3rd trash mob you will be kicked. Sometimes even quicker

The Elitiism is strong with you. I will be doing so much DPS you wont have anything to target. So perhaps I will be kicking you. Or maybe I will just forget to heal you and you will leave the group...

Relax Clarence, you dont have to run every single thing in the game like its a Vet Trial and you want to be number 1 on the leaderboard.

Yeah, i’d take @Drdeath20 side all day. Surviving or not, I don’t like way below median free loaders, they don’t pay me, I should not carry them.

I wonder how you will feel when you're on that end of the stick. I can guarantee you that there are plenty of elite players out there that would be more than happy to treat you in that way because you are sub-standard to them.

If you're dealing more than enough DPS to clear the content, you're not being carried. You're only being carried of you wouldn't be able to clear the cotnebt without the other DPS.

Uhm... okay. I didn't even mention DPS. What did that have to do with anything? Mine was a comment on the elitist attitude of being better than everybody else when, clearly, there will always be somebody better than yourself. A little bit of circumspection and humbleness never hurt anybody.

DenMoria · July 2018

Nestor wrote: »

@Oreyn_Bearclaw

I said about half the time, that presupposes a range. Exactly would be 50% Anyway, my point is, what you can do with a training dummy does not mean your going to pull the same numbers in a boss fight. And, any DPS that just stands there in Red so they can eek out a few more DPS deserves to wipe. If you need to move, move, if you need to mitigate, then do so. Cant do DPS when your dead.

@MLGProPlayer Of course working on your rotation is going to make you do more DPS. Never said it didnt. I was doing this back when all we had were Atronach WBs to do this with.

My point is you dont need to do the theoretical max DPS in every fight in this game. Do the DPS you need do to for the content you are doing. If you want to do more, fine. Do more. But it does not change the outcome, mobs are dead and your moving on to the next fight. If your group wants to move along faster, then do what you need to do to help make that happen. If your chasing leaderboards, then do what you need to do.

Absolutely agree.

zaria · July 2018

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

My guild has a 3M target dummy if I want a 'real' dps check. The guild also has that lower hp talking Clockwork dummy which is very handy for a simple quick (albeit less accurate due to short duration) check. I don't run Combat Metrics or any similar addons.

On console the clockwork dummy is nice for testing rotation changes,, no it will not check sustain bit it will show if your rotation is tighter or if changing a skill or gear help.
On pc you can just as well use combat metric on normal dummy.

DuskMarine · July 2018

for true dps test i use the 3 mil(less margin for error) and if i wanna test my sustain(which in a group situation you dont need to worry about anyhow) i use the 6 mil. its really up to your choice. all the test dummies are the same for the situations.