Midyear Mayhem dyes highlight ongoing problems

Recremen · July 2018

With today's new cash shop offerings we've got some pretty cool things, but those don't need a lot of commentary. You know what you want if you're buying them. I'd instead like to touch on one new (returning) offering that highlights the continuous issues with dyes in this game. Here we have the new cash shop yellow dye preview on a recent costume.

Wow, that's pretty good, right? The answer is of course "mostly yes". It's a strong golden color unlike anything we have in the game presently. Yet there are three glaring flaws associating with it. First, and most importantly, it does not dye consistently in all slots. Notice the shoulder flaps and the scarf area? It's a significantly different color on those despite being the same exact dye. For me this is very undesirable behavior that consistently leads to difficulty when using the dye system. Dyes should operate consistently across all material types AT LEAST in terms of the color they give, if not in terms of texture and sheen.

Second, these dyes continue to be released as stamp-only options. This is incredibly undesirable. I (quite obviously) do not mind cosmetic things being offered in the cash shop, but these consumable offerings are simply not something I consider worth my money. If they were permanent unlocks for the dye system (and thus usable on costumes, armor, and outfits) then I'd totally go for them, but both the single-use nature of the items and the fact that they can only be used on costumes independently make them useless to me and together make them borderline annoying to see in the shop, given what I perceive as their wasted potential.

Finally, it highlights the issue with only having access to three dye slots. While individual pieces of armor can (mostly) achieve a great deal of customization with three slots, costumes end up being left a bit in the wind by such restrictions. There is a lot of trim on the Queen's Eye outfit (featured), for instance, that could totally offer some unique aesthetic benefits by being a separate dye slot. This is not the worst problem in the world or the most immediate concern, but I think it's something to consider as the years go by.

DeadlyPhoenix · July 2018

Pretty much agree with all points made.

I realllllly hate how things dye differently. It stands to reason that if you're dying something a specific color, you will repeat the process as many times as necessary until it comes out the desired color. You wouldn't leave it looking washed out and faded.

White dyes sometimes make certain armor look blue. Others it's an extremely bright white. Even if they're both of the same weight class and theoretically made from the same material. Meaning two heavy iron shoulders, one dyes blue, the other bright white.

Same thing with reds. Often times they come out looking pink instead of red. Clothing should be the same. If I dye my pants red and my shirt red, even if they're made from different material and are a different base color, I would continue to dye them until they matched. Not let my pants be a dark red and my shirt pink.

Acrolas · July 2018

We're not really dyeing anything though. We're adding a coating that is a solution of pigment and a waterproof bonding agent. Less light scattering, such as on polished metal or stone, leads to a better opacity than items with more light scattering like leather or cloth.

It's a realistic system. It's just not a dye system. And yes there are scientific differences that have been established by trade organizations specializing in each (ETAD for dyes, CPMA for pigments).

Recremen · July 2018

Acrolas wrote: »

We're not really dyeing anything though. We're adding a coating that is a solution of pigment and a waterproof bonding agent. Less light scattering, such as on polished metal or stone, leads to a better opacity than items with more light scattering like leather or cloth.

It's a realistic system. It's just not a dye system. And yes there are scientific differences that have been established by trade organizations specializing in each (ETAD for dyes, CPMA for pigments).

Based on the behaviors of the dyes we aren't using anything even close to real-world materials. You have an interesting analysis, it just doesn't actually stack up to scientific scrutiny. For example, the main portion of the shown garment dyes exactly as you'd expect, and is entirely in line with how the metal on the same outfit dyes. It's the shoulder flaps and scarf that are off. Further, there is no consistency in armor regarding the properties of metal, cloth, and leather. Sometimes it dyes true to expectation, others not so much.

So we can't excuse the behavior of the dyes based on real-world materials science. Especially in a magical world with all kinds of supernatural nonsense going on, we should look at these things first as gameplay decisions and then construct lore around it based on existing stories or new creations. What I am saying in this post is that I find this gameplay decision to brush coarsely against my own preferences and would appreciate a change.

Carbonised · July 2018

Dyes will always look different on different pieces of armor. Been like that forever, will most likely never change.

However, the fact that they keep releasing these very intense golds and vivid blood reds as dye stamps only is atrocious.

I struggle to find especially a good blood red colour, and sometimes also metallic ones like silver and gold, and I refuse to buy a one-off stupid stamp just to have the colour available. Most of the reds look very washed out, or more like a vivic crimson. Why isn't there a single blood red, deep red colour? Pact blood and pact conq seem too dull and faded on many pieces, fire dragon red I haven't gotten yet, but it looks too vivid and bright from what I can tell, and Emp red is one of the hardest and rarest dyes in the game.
Yet several blood red colours have been released - as dye stamp exclusives.

Is it really too much to ask for to get a single normal dye colour like this?

Banana · July 2018

Isnt the butterscotch gold one the same as bloodroot wine?

Carbonised · July 2018

Banana wrote: »

Isnt the butterscotch gold one the same as bloodroot wine?

No, the stamp colour is more metallic gold, as you can see on Recremen's pic, the Blodroot Wine is more neon orange, really.

DanteYoda · July 2018

These things are pointless until i can dye my outfit i wont buy any...

Carbonised · July 2018

DanteYoda wrote: »

These things are pointless until i can dye my outfit i wont buy any...

Both costumes and outfits are dyable so what's your problem?

Prof_Bawbag · July 2018

Carbonised wrote: »

DanteYoda wrote: »

These things are pointless until i can dye my outfit i wont buy any...

Both costumes and outfits are dyable so what's your problem?

I think s/he means not able to use these actual stamps to dye an outfit. You can dye outfits, but using only in game dyes. Well, that's how i read his comment.

Recremen · July 2018

Carbonised wrote: »

Dyes will always look different on different pieces of armor. Been like that forever, will most likely never change.

However, the fact that they keep releasing these very intense golds and vivid blood reds as dye stamps only is atrocious.

I struggle to find especially a good blood red colour, and sometimes also metallic ones like silver and gold, and I refuse to buy a one-off stupid stamp just to have the colour available. Most of the reds look very washed out, or more like a vivic crimson. Why isn't there a single blood red, deep red colour? Pact blood and pact conq seem too dull and faded on many pieces, fire dragon red I haven't gotten yet, but it looks too vivid and bright from what I can tell, and Emp red is one of the hardest and rarest dyes in the game.
Yet several blood red colours have been released - as dye stamp exclusives.

Is it really too much to ask for to get a single normal dye colour like this?

I really hope it does not stay that way. It's incredibly irksome to have access to all these colors and not have them behave as desired. Anyway, here's some more screenshots to illustrate the issue more.

Fire Drake's Flame

Looks somewhat similar to what you want, but not the best pick.

New Cash Shop Stamp

Also a bit similar to what you're looking for, but not quite there.

Ruby Throne Red

Eeeh quite a bit far off imho.

Also Ruby Throne Red

LOL JUST KIDDING IT'S PERFECT, just, you know, as long as you picked the right thing to use it on. You see how this becomes very frustrating, yes? Yes.

Recremen · July 2018

Banana wrote: »

Isnt the butterscotch gold one the same as bloodroot wine?

@Banana

Bloodroot Wine

Butterscotch Gold

Nope, though I can see the confusion because SOMETIMES Bloodroot Wine has a very bright gold sheen to it, depending on what you use it on. You can even see it a little bit here.