Why can't all class skills have a stamina variant?

cjechurchill · July 2018

As the title says. Should all class skills have a stamina variant? Or should the class skills just scale off whichever stat is higher (magic or stam).
As a min maker I feel like I am not getting the most benefit from my class skills.

ADarklore · July 2018

Then I ask you this, why can't DW, 2H, 1H/Shield, Bow have a Magicka variant?

DirkRavenclaw · July 2018

No thank you. Classes should be individual, same are better in Mag, some in stam

Everstorm · July 2018

DirkRavenclaw wrote: »

No thank you. Classes should be individual, same are better in Mag, some in stam

All are better in mag than in stam.

casparian · July 2018

Because there are more useful stamina weapon skills than there are magicka weapon skills. There is no non-class magicka execute, defile, bleed, burst CC, gap closer, snare, or burst heal, let alone anything like DBOS or Rearming Trap. Adding in more stamina class skills without shifting some of these weapon skill lines over to magicka would be unbalanced.

If ZOS were designing the game today I would recommend they not weight weapons toward stamina and class skills toward magicka, but that's just how they made the game.

Defilted · July 2018

Not that this is a reason that ZOS would use, but some skills make no sense having a stamina component. Like force pulse.. stamina force pulse?. The sorc skill lighting form was redesigned for the stamina variant so it made sense. I would rather them spend time fixing things then adding more complexity to skills.

Feric51 · July 2018

Everstorm wrote: »

DirkRavenclaw wrote: »

No thank you. Classes should be individual, same are better in Mag, some in stam

All are better in mag than in stam.

I remember my English teacher telling me to be wary of using words like “all,” “never,” etc. as qualifiers because you’re ‘usually’ going to be proven wrong. And, because I can think of a stamina morph that is, in fact, better than its magicka counterpart.....

I present to you:
Class - Sorceror
Skill - Lightning Form
Magicka morph - Boundless Storm
Stamina Morph - Hurricane

Hurricane ftw...

EvilCroc · July 2018

Stamina Mage's Wrath. Not "mage's" and not "wrath".

Reverb · July 2018

Interesting idea. On one hand I feel like this would cause even more build homogeny, it's boring when "all mag builds run X; all stam run Y" within a class.

But then I remember that almost every skill has a clearly-superior morph, and that's the one everyone uses now, so this change wouldn't be any worse for that. And in fact would reduce the generic feel of most stam builds using the same weapon skills because there are so few options for class stam morphs.

Edit - I've come around to really liking this suggestion, but I don't trust the current combat team to implement it.

ADarklore · July 2018

Defilted wrote: »

Not that this is a reason that ZOS would use, but some skills make no sense having a stamina component. Like force pulse.. stamina force pulse?. The sorc skill lighting form was redesigned for the stamina variant so it made sense. I would rather them spend time fixing things then adding more complexity to skills.

Well, Templars have Jabs... and it does physical damage even though it's a spear of energy. Or Power of the Light which is a 'pillar of light' that does physical damage. So... there is a precedent for non-physical abilities dealing physical damage.

TheShadowScout · July 2018

"Why can't stamina and magica characters be exactly the same?"
That is what I think when i read:

cjechurchill wrote: »

Why can't all class skills have a stamina variant?

ADarklore wrote: »

...why can't DW, 2H, 1H/Shield, Bow have a Magicka variant?

...and just imagine how friggin boring that would make the game, if -everyone- could use the exact same skill setup!

And on the background fluff front...

Stamina means an ability powered by a warriors mighty muscles and physical prowess. A sword well swung, a bow drawn and released, a quick stab with a dagger, a powerful bash with a shield, that sort of thing.

Magica means an ability powered by magical energy and the casters keen will. A bolt of lightning, a breath of fire, a golden healing light or a conjured creature to fight for its master.

Some abilities are a bit of both... using magic to conjure up a golden spear, then using muscles to poke an enemy with it, etc. With those abilities, it makes sense that you can specialize, do you learn to put more magic into it, or do you learn to put more muscle into it (aka, stamina morph).

But for most of the "magical" class abilities... there is no proper and plausible explaination why flexing your muscles would make daedric curses appear to haunt your enemies, or summon balls of golden flame to burn them, or whatever.

Thus it makes a LOT of sense that "warriors" (aka, stamina characters) have to rely more on "the warrior arts", aka weapon skills, while "magicians" (aka, magica characters) get to cast a wide range of impressive magical spells...

...

Now, I can understand that sometimes those playing stamina characters look at all the magic and get their own brand of envy. (Freud would probably make connections to body parts and general feelings of inadequacy again here...)
And I woudl agree that stamina characters deserve something as well, especially now that magica characters just got that shiny new Psijic skill line. But just making all the same skills available to both sides is not a good idea, it makes no sense fluff-wise, and it makes for less build diversity, not more.

So... the thing stamina characters should hope for would be...
- more abilities added to the weapon skill lines (I did notice that many NPCs seem to have weapon skills we don't... and expanding the weapon skill lines would be a neat idea!).
- more weapon skill lines. There are quite a few weapon options that are curiously absent (Vivec gets his spear, but we don't? Unfair!), and some which are boring for lack of choices (Lemme use my bow skills with a crossbow, darnit!), expanding things here would make the game way more diverse and enjoyable!
- some "martial arts" guild skill line that is purely for stamina support. Maybe even splitting the fighters guild into that, and a second "monster hunter" skill line...
And who knows, maybe someday... some of that will become added to ESO. One can hope, and talk about it on the forums so maybe, just maybe someone takes notice.

Enodoc · July 2018

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Stamina means an ability powered by a warriors mighty muscles and physical prowess. A sword well swung, a bow drawn and released, a quick stab with a dagger, a powerful bash with a shield, that sort of thing.

Magica means an ability powered by magical energy and the casters keen will. A bolt of lightning, a breath of fire, a golden healing light or a conjured creature to fight for its master.

Right, and this goes back to what I think the original design intention was - Weapon skills used Stamina, since they were based on physical skill, and Class skills used Magicka, since they were based on magical skill. (Staves are an odd one... let's not go there.)

I'd like to see ZOS go back to this rather than try to wave away how a conjuration spell, an alteration spell, a restoration spell, or a poison/disease effect is suddenly based on your physical energy levels rather than your magical energy levels.

Tonturri · July 2018

I imagine because it's harder than one might think to ensure that stamina doesn't become just green magicka.