"Racial passives are fine already! Don't need to touch them" - Says every altmer/dunmer

Silver_Strider · July 2018

"I want my racial choice to matter"
Considering that ZOS has changed racials before that have altered how some play, this seems like a poor excuse. There's still people on here that complain that their Magic Khajiit got nerfed when ZOS changed Carnage to only to affect Weapon Crit when it used to affect both. Then, there are the passives that changed for the better in general but weren't originally available; Nords didn't have the 6% Max Stamina on release, Argonian didn't have a tri-stat restore with potions but an increase to the effectiveness of potions, and Dark Elf only had increased Fire Damage, not Ice/Lightning as well. Your choice can be invalidated in an instant that this seems foolhardy to even try to argue as a reason for racial passives to remain.

"Lore"
How exactly does the Lore of a race suddenly vanish if their Racial Passives are removed? Altmer will continue to be known as the masters of Magic by the Lore and you'll still be able to build your character to fit that role if you so choose to but not gimped if you choose not to. Argonians are suppose to be masters of Guerilla Warfare and Assassins but their passives suggest they're mostly Tanks and Healers, Nords aren't suppose to be adapt at Magic and yet Shalidor is one of the most prominent Mages ever known. Lore is malleable and ZOS has been playing fast and loss with it for years. If you really wanted to argue Lore, than I'd argue that Altmer should take extra damage from Magic abilities since it's also a part of their lore that they're more susceptible to Magic.

Can I get a real reason racials cannot be dropped like a stone in water?

ANGEL_BtVS · July 2018

TequilaFire wrote: »

My Breton says leave my passives alone!

Seriously, if we had a smorgasbord of passives to choose from there would still be meta as most would pick the best passives for their role.

You just made the point for changing the system. Yes, there would still be a meta which means no change there. However, now everyone can select their own preferred race which is a win for everyone.

Animus-ESO · July 2018

JJBoomer wrote: »

oooh lookie! Another "I don't like this personally, I demand that it be changed to make me happier" thread. amazing.

*snaps safari photo of this overly abundant creature*

Oh look someone who thinks eso is perfect and nothing needs to change ever... *rolls eyes*

Chilly-McFreeze · July 2018

Vercingetorix wrote: »

No, you don't get to play the way you want - that was never the plan for this game. I thought you kids had learned this lesson after 5 years - it's about playing the exact way ZoS wants you to play. You have no voice. Your opinion means nothing here. Not even my opinions about fixing stuff matter. Nothing matters.

Not that I necessarily disagree, but then why do you even come here at all? To belittle everyone with a different opinion than yours all across the forums? See, I don't like OP's idea either, but that doesn't mean you should go full ad hominem.

f047ys3v3n · July 2018

Racial passives are too powerful and they are unbalanced race to race.

In particular, I find Bretons to suck as they lack a direct dps boost, or heal boost, and have only a week and half measure tanking one (spell resist only which will be redundant with any tanks gear anyway.) The Breton sustain buff is way too weak to make up for this lack of direct role buff. It is the weakest sustain buff that any race with one has.

Wood elf likewise suffers the lack of direct role buffs and is similarly regularly ignored.

Nords are also sometimes mentioned as weak but they have great tank buffs. People just don't want to tank.

HowlKimchi · July 2018

To keep diversity, I’ve always thought that it’d be nice for each race to have 2 variations for their passives: magicka inclined, and stamina inclined.

So for example nords. They would keep their health recovery and max health, but have 6% max magicka instead of 6% max stam. They’re still nords, who trained as magic users.

griffkhalifa · July 2018

Silver_Strider wrote: »

"I want my racial choice to matter"
Considering that ZOS has changed racials before that have altered how some play, this seems like a poor excuse. There's still people on here that complain that their Magic Khajiit got nerfed when ZOS changed Carnage to only to affect Weapon Crit when it used to affect both. Then, there are the passives that changed for the better in general but weren't originally available; Nords didn't have the 6% Max Stamina on release, Argonian didn't have a tri-stat restore with potions but an increase to the effectiveness of potions, and Dark Elf only had increased Fire Damage, not Ice/Lightning as well. Your choice can be invalidated in an instant that this seems foolhardy to even try to argue as a reason for racial passives to remain.

"Lore"
How exactly does the Lore of a race suddenly vanish if their Racial Passives are removed? Altmer will continue to be known as the masters of Magic by the Lore and you'll still be able to build your character to fit that role if you so choose to but not gimped if you choose not to. Argonians are suppose to be masters of Guerilla Warfare and Assassins but their passives suggest they're mostly Tanks and Healers, Nords aren't suppose to be adapt at Magic and yet Shalidor is one of the most prominent Mages ever known. Lore is malleable and ZOS has been playing fast and loss with it for years. If you really wanted to argue Lore, than I'd argue that Altmer should take extra damage from Magic abilities since it's also a part of their lore that they're more susceptible to Magic.

Can I get a real reason racials cannot be dropped like a stone in water?

Just because you disagree with the reasons doesn't mean they aren't real reasons. If it isn't broken don't fix it. That's a reason.

KraziJoe · July 2018

The Meta doesn't work with my race! NERF everything until it does...

MLGProPlayer · July 2018

I am an Altmer main. I support getting rid of racial passives. No one should be punished in-game for picking a race they like. Race should be a purely cosmetic choice.

BuddyAces · July 2018

DenMoria wrote: »

Riptide wrote: »

DenMoria wrote: »

It seems like the only purpose of character creation now is to choose a Meta build, Meta rotation, Meta equipment and Meta behavior that will satisfy the needs of other players?

I'm confused.

You aren’t confused, just being obtuse and passive aggressive.

When you are fighting vet content, much less progression content - 10% means your teamates living or dying. When you show up to the game and your 1st baseman is wearing a golf glove rather than a mitt, because they want to be a unique snowflake, he’s being inconsiderate. Not the team who asks him to please suit up to win.

You can pretend that dynamic doesn’t exist if you like, and of course it doesn’t overland or in normal content. But at endgame you suit up to help your fellow teamates. Its not about you anymore.

I don't mean to, but, as I said at the end of that post, I understand the MMO mentality. After all, a true MMO is all about team-work, be it PvE or PvP content. You should do your best to support your Team. That just makes sense.

I just question the "Meta" requirements in a game that was specifically marketed as "Play as you want to play" and "It's all about choice".

I hope you know that this is not a slam against anything you're saying. It makes perfect sense in the "MMO" sensibility and that is the way it has always been.

The issue comes about due to Zeni's marketing of the game. "It can be played Solo!" has been trumpeted. "You can play however you want!"; "You can choose any of 10 separate races!" even the endorsed "schools" and training encourage you to experiment and choose the skills you want.

But that's not the truth, is it? Your build should closely resemble the "Meta" build if you truly want to make your mark and contribute greatly to your team.

I just wish more people knew it.

Personally, I love ES because you can be anyone who does anything. You can be an Orc Sorcerer or a Heavy-Armor Wood Elf. But that doesn't work in ESO, despite what they would like you to believe.

Again, I make fun of Meta builds as many who insist upon them are the most arrogant people around, but, frankly, they're not wrong.

These builds work. These builds strengthen teams. Sure they may not be how YOU as an individual want to play, but, since you are playing an MMO and the entire point is to be a "Team", suck it up and do it.

I guess I'm more resentful of Zeni than I am of the top-tier and Meta players. The players know what works. Zeni should listen to them.

No, they are absolutely correct. You can take any character and play exactly how you want. The places you shouldn't be using them are very small compared to the rest of the content this game has to offer. That was made for the min max/endgame crowd.

So no, your bow/bow magicka orc/what have you will not work at endgame but it will work for 99 percent of the rest of the game.

Benemime · July 2018

themaddaedra wrote: »

I mean you can't make your own choice then complain that it doesn't fit well, because it's completely on your hands to not choose what fits well.

Oh so now if I want to be a mage and I don't perform at same level, It is my fault that I didn't want to play with an altmer? that's laughable, on a mmo. I won't play with altmer, I simply don't like them, I'm italian I want to see myself in the game and imperial is the only has that actually has my nose.

This is not a singleplayer game. My solution (and plenty of others that are based on birthsign) won't HARM your gameplay, it will only give us the same level as you, you are just part of the players that benefits from racial passives the way it is and don't want others to perform better or equaly as you.

BuddyAces · July 2018

Benemime wrote: »

themaddaedra wrote: »

I mean you can't make your own choice then complain that it doesn't fit well, because it's completely on your hands to not choose what fits well.

Oh so now if I want to be a mage and I don't perform at same level, It is my fault that I didn't want to play with an altmer? that's laughable, on a mmo. I won't play with altmer, I simply don't like them, I'm italian I want to see myself in the game and imperial is the only has that actually has my nose.

This is not a singleplayer game. My solution (and plenty of others that are based on birthsign) won't HARM your gameplay, it will only give us the same level as you, you are just part of the players that benefits from racial passives the way it is and don't want others to perform better or equaly as you.

Guarantee you that it's not racials causing the gap between the extremely skilled and others not on their level

Benemime · July 2018

Maryal wrote: »

No.

Many of us chose our race BECAUSE of our racial passives.

If someone doesn't like their racial passive then get a race change token, or start a new character with the racial passives you prefer for your build/playstyle.

People who chose their race wisely shouldn't be punished as a result of those who chose unwisely.

Racial passives should remain fairly static (more static than skills) - they should be the one thing you, as a player, can count on.

They should NOT be subject to the 'flavor of the month' builds or play styles, nor should they be subject to change as a result of 'meta build pressure.'

lmao. Solutions like these won't HARM your race, it will just bring others to the same level. So stop being dishonest by saying that "my choice should matter" and simply says: "I want to be better and above others that are not willing to play my race with the role that I play"

Benemime · July 2018

BuddyAces wrote: »

Guarantee you that it's not racials causing the gap between the extremely skilled and others not on their level

Oh you got it all wrong, it's not that I'm comparing myself to others, I'm comparing to myself, I keep thinking, "geez, I would be 100% better if I was an altmer, 9% regen, 10% max magicka and 4% elemental damage", instead I'm stuck with 2 useless racial passives, some people are stuck with 3 useless racial passives just because they don't like a specific race that is "destined" to fit a specific role. Everyone that is in the same position is thinking the same and probably wanting to buy the race token. I refuse.

Racial passives are too OP in this MMO. and It's actually harmful if you are not playing with altmersorc for example.

danno8 · July 2018

Joy_Division wrote: »

No thanks.

I want my choices to matter.

The issue is a lack of balance. Some races are good and some are not.

Do you think though that you can still make a choice that matters, but have it dissociated from Race? So if you make a Nord then choose your "birthsign", the birthsign is what gives you +magika, +stamina or whatever?

This way you can play the race that is visually appealing to you, and still make a meaningful choice with birthsign (or whatever)?

DenMoria · July 2018

danno8 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

No thanks.

I want my choices to matter.

The issue is a lack of balance. Some races are good and some are not.

Do you think though that you can still make a choice that matters, but have it dissociated from Race? So if you make a Nord then choose your "birthsign", the birthsign is what gives you +magika, +stamina or whatever?

This way you can play the race that is visually appealing to you, and still make a meaningful choice with birthsign (or whatever)?

You do know that, according to other posters, what you want and your aesthetics are utterly unimportant and, in order to succeed, you must put aside all your own desires and want and play your characters ONLY the way that they deem is allowed? In other words, be a "team player".

KraziJoe · July 2018

Jeez, MY Altmer tank sucks...BUFF ALTMER PASSIVES!!!

Riptide · July 2018

—edit

oh, nevermind.

Animus-ESO · July 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

I am an Altmer main. I support getting rid of racial passives. No one should be punished in-game for picking a race they like. Race should be a purely cosmetic choice.

Thank you. Someone who makes sense and realizes changing facials won’t affect you negatively

haelene · July 2018

If you made the character to do end game content like trials then sure, make your character have a race whose passives fit.

If you don't plan on doing end game, do what you want and use the passive to your advantage in other ways. It makes no difference in overworld or normals (and it could be argued that in vet base game dungeons it makes no difference either).

The problem here isn't the passives (for the most part, nords being the exception). The problem is the idea that you have to min max every character for every situation and you just plain don't. Anybody who says otherwise likely forgot we used to do the same content with way less dps and hps.

I stand by my mag bosmer and khajiit. I just don't take them into trials. Simple.

mikemacon · July 2018

As a Breton (and thus neither a filthy snobby mcsnobberton Altmer nor a dunmer) I was going to comment, "nope, racial passives are just fine" - until I read your suggestion of moving things to a "Specialization" tab, which would indeed allow for greater variation.

Good idea.

Very good idea.

Waffennacht · July 2018

I skipped a bunch.

Did wanna say, "you make your choices, then they change the rules"

Is a pretty good line.

Makes a strong point. When they change things, they should allow for us to change our decisions

Jerkling · July 2018

why not just get rid of races altogether? also classes.

MashmalloMan · July 2018

NVM my prev comment, I like the specialization idea a LOT.

Benemime · July 2018

Acrolas wrote: »

A lot of passives threads boil down to caring too much about what others think. If you want to play a Magicka Redguard or a Stamina Breton, play them.

Guess what, Acrolas, we are. We are already playing "Magicka Redguard", "Stamina Breton" and so on. That's why 50% of playerbase is unhappy with racial passives and posts like these exists.

KeiruNicrom · July 2018

"Races passives are fine" -One speedy Orc

Merlin13KAGL · July 2018

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Can I get a real reason racials cannot be dropped like a stone in water?

@Silver_Strider , you want the sad, honest truth?

Because there would no longer be (as large of) a market for race change tokens.

dodgehopper_ESO · July 2018

The racial differences were more reasonable back when overcharging was around.

BlazingDynamo · July 2018

Nord's need a change yes. Breton could use a magic damage passive and I think Imperials Red Diamond should be replaced with 2% max magic. Honestly that's all I can think of, every race has a place somewhere whether pve, pvp

MerlinPendragon · July 2018

Sorry but the OPs idea is awful and terribly selfish. It is the equivalent of saying "if I can't have it, I don't want anyone to have it."

Allow for the races without good passives to get buffed to catch up to those who do. We need more differentiation in this game... not more vanilla templates or adhering to this "make everyone equal" hippie non sense.

There is no doubt a few races (i.e. Nords) who got the short end of the stick and need a revamp, but eliminating them all together is not the way to solve this.