Close Melee Combat is without a doubt in the saddest state compared to any other play style in PVP. The idiot that I am, I purposely play the worst of the worst, WiS, intersection, DW+Medium+Warden.

FWIW, I consider DW + Medium as the "supposed to be" purist Melee Combat alignment. So the rest of this is from a pure Melee Combat style player attempting to survive in PVP with DW and Medium.

The two DW primary Melee skills are Rapids and Rending and you have to get within 7 and 5 meters respectively. Rapids, your by design main melee spammable in the DW skill tree, has the wonderful feature of being 0.6 second channel. So if you hit Rapids and then immediately either go into a Block or Dodge Roll, you self cancel / interrupt the skill. Also I'm pretty sure, not positive, that if your opponent moves out of LOS (behind you), the skill is interrupted and does not complete. Of course it is the last strike which is the 300% hit. Yea, channel.

So, let's summarize that. By Combat Design, Medium Armor assumes agile fast LOS moving, Dodge Roll with quick weaved Blocks to even have a smidgen of chance to survive. But you can't do any of that as the primary DW spam damage skill will be interrupted / canceled:

1) if you move or turn away or your opponent turns or moves out of LOS (which is like all the time as you are 5 meters a part running around like headless chickens)

2) if you try and survive and perform a quick block

3) if you try and survive or re-position via a Dodge Roll.

So the whole thing is designed so you have to stand there and not move, do not block, do not dodge roll, if you do not want to self interrupt your primary melee combat skill. Ouch.

So fairly common to have only 2-3 out of your 5 Rapid strikes hit in PVP combat. Compounding that the skill itself (Rapids) even with a 4,000 Weapon Damage + 40K Stam will typically hit for only 300-600 damage per strike or around 3K-ish in total. Meanwhile, Medium Armor, a ton of things are hitting you at 5-8k.

From a damage perspective the rest of the DW skills are OK in their context. Flying Daggers is ranged with pretty good damage. Rending is pretty nice as well, but to close within 5 meters when everyone is running around at Major Expedition or faster is a big risk, hard to land, and your reward isn't outstanding damage, it's respectable damage. But Rending's damage is not near enough in relative comparison to the risk taken to inflict it. Not to mention it is purgeable or just cloak and stop the tic. Sigh. Steel Tornado is fine.

Medium Armor - For whatever reasons, over time Medium Armor has gotten the BOHICA with all the special twisty rules in the balance attempts. Dodge Roll has special penalties associated with it. It's ok to spam shields endlessly. No problem spamming cloak endlessly. But attempt 2 Dodge Rolls, one to escape an attack and one to re-position for an attack and you are penalized. Since you are Medium Armor, Dodge Rolling, a quick Block and a lot of agile movement, your necessary game play survival options is just burning Stam. Of course, special penalty for Stam for holding a block for a second or two. It's all asymmetrical as there are not equivalent penalties on the magica side.

Any skill that does accelerated damage at 50% health or similar are pretty much executioners on Medium builds. Medium Armor, 20K health gets to 50% health with a few LAs, a heavy and a skill, or a couple of skills. Basically a Medium Armor build runs around in PVP combat in a state of being in constant "executioner range" as "normal".

Evasion has been nerfed down to 15% which is just not worth slotting.

Recently, a big list of skills have all been reclassified as "Un-Dodgeable". Much of it hard hitting, AOE, long ranged casting stuff. The idea that Medium Armor can just stand there and hold block on these newly undodgeable skills without serious consequences is laughable. It would be all well and good if the Combat Design thinking had been along the lines of "ok, so we're going to shift this long list of skills to un-dodgeable, so the Medium Armor types are going to take a lot more damage tomorrow then they were yesterday as Dodge Roll is their #1 survival mechanism, so as compensation we're going to up Evasion to 25% or Medium Armor will not not have resource block penalty, or remove the Dodge Roll penalty for 5 Medium or ..." But nothing like that.

Medium Armor, low 20Ks of Health is basically asking to be slaughtered. You are supposed to be a glass cannon which depends on a lot of agile skill play to survive but as compensation get to drop some serious damage IF you can engage at melee combat distance. Here is the reality. Haunting, Crystal and all similar will easily hit for 5-8K, from 28 meters away. It's not even a fight. You are CC'd from 28 meters away and 2-shoted. All while you are expected to close within 5 meters to return damage via melee combat. Sadly, you'll do less damage at 5 meters then they can inflict at 28 meters. Don't even start with all the Medium melting 1-shots out there, Soul Assault, Radiants, all 1-shot you for 20K+ from range. EoF is 30K plus. Block, heal spam, maybe, maybe every now and then you can survive. And please breaking LOS is a situational miracle that saves your butt once in blue moon.

DW+Medium+Warden - You are supposed to get within 5 meters to unleash Melee hell. Meanwhile, they can (in practice in PVP with lag and issues) unbreakable CC you, and 2-shot you every single time. The Rune, Crystal, Haunting combo and many more. And even better they get a ranged bonus passive bonus of 5 meters in PVP. So those 28 meter skills + 5, so they 2-shot you at 32 meters.

It's all just stacked against DW+Medium+Warden Melee. DW has no CC's. DW has no gap closers. You are supposed to get to 5 meters melee. No way to do so is offered, you are supposed to just run at them I guess. You can't stun them. You can't knock them down. You can't knock them back. You can't interrupt a cast. You can't do anything to assist in getting to melee distance. You just have to cover 32 meters of ground taking CC's, debuffs and damage all the way. Trust me you are not going to make it 4 out of 5 times.

The DW skill line offers no CC's / Debuffs (beyond slows) and only a single solitary buff across the entire skill line from Daggers, Major Brutality. That's it.

Cloak has a 25% reduction buff for AOE damage. But I'm not going to count that. That reduction is only fair because in PVE content you have to stand at 7-5 meters to lay on damage risking a 1-shot, you inevitably spend time standing in an AOE. That reduction is necessary for a melee style to even be remotely viable in PVE. Surprisingly, during the latest re-balance, a lot of focus was spent on aligning skills with their damage vs effects. i.e. Re-balance high damage, high effects skills (CC's, Fractures, Breaches etc). Cloak, which doesn't do anything to an opponent, was treated as similar and got something like a ~20% nerf and it wasn't that big a damage dealer to begin with. I don't think placing the necessary for play 25% AOE reduction as on par with a Stun, Knockdown, Knockback, Major Buff, etc is correct.

Another interesting Combat Design point is that the DW line, the close combat melee line, doesn't proc direct damage melee sets. Classic example is Selenes. As one of, if not the, go to melee combat / DPS monster set one would think DW skills would proc it. Yet, Rapids is 100% DOT (0.6 second DOT, but a DOT) doesn't proc it. Rending's tics will not proc it, only the initial "hit". But as Rending is mostly a dot, you only fire the skill every 7 secs or so. Daggers won't proc it as it's ranged. Tornado will proc it, but that is your executioner. So basically the entire DW skill line won't proc it with any frequency whatsoever. Sort of non-intuitive, the primary close combat Melee skill tree will not proc any direct damage triggered sets, which tend to be the best damage dealing stuff in general.

You have no purge, so you are constantly de-buffed with maims, slows, bleeds. So yea, you get to cover the 32 meters slowed and arrive with reduced damage output. DW gets passive damage bonus for Stunned, Immobilized, Disoriented or Silenced enemies ... but the DW+Medium(+Warden) skill line does not offer any way to stun, cc, immobilize, disorient or silence an opponent. Sigh

The fact that the guy in curtain drapes, the one cc'ing and 2-shoting you from 32 meters, is stacking shields resulting in that light armor build being substantially tankier then your Medium build is just depressing. And the gap between from Medium to Heavy is large. Basically as Medium Armor you out Glass everyone and they in compensation, out Cannon you. This a problem, a melee combat build at melee combat distance, should be the highest damage situation hands down and it's not. The risk / reward trade off for Melee style is all risk with no reward.

Clearly from the above this is all fixable. On the other hand these issues are all well know, well understood and have posts on the topic going back a long way without any sign of correction or adjustment in sight. Hopefully, it will start to get some
needed attention.

@Millz Thxs. Good reminder of what follow on posts will come.

So I'll add a few additional points in anticipation for those about to post with counter thoughts.

The superiority (or not) of stamina builds has little or nothing to do with DW+Medium close combat, agile movement, dodge roll, quick count block (not holding block) melee style of play.

Despite the current "how did it ever get to this" situation, I can say from experience that these things accrue over time from a series of design decisions, each individually done with careful thought and solid intention that end up in hindsight as a "series of unfortunate events".

Basically, all the tweaks and carefully crafted adjustments on the Light/Magica/Ranged and the opposing Heavy/Healing/Blocking/Stamina ends of spectrum have, via unintended consequences, strangled the Melee/Stam/Medium space.

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

I think the biggest issue is that sets like ravager/ truth/veiled/fury exist which give heavy wearers the option to have insane burst potential as well as healing. Add this to the tanky nature of heavy armor and you've got the current situation. I wouldn't expect to see things change when the best damage sets are locked under heavy armor.

Nope, that is not an issue. You can wear those sets in medium now.

I think you mean you can change the jewellery to robust? If you wear the armor, it's still heavy weight. I'm just saying that much damage with tanky passives causes a lot of the issues. You shouldn't be able to eat that much damage and drop a dawnbreaker that kills several people. If zenimax clearly established what the armor weights are meant to do a lot of the issues would go away. Light and medium should be for dps and heavy for tanking. If you mix say heavy and medium you should be tanky and do damage but not as tanky or damage dealing if you were wearing just purely one weight. The fact that stam wardens can run fury along with 7th legion and have 5+k weapon damage 30+k stamina with heavy armor resists and healing is utterly broken.

As I said countless and countless times, fury+seventh legion requires you to tank extreme amounts of hits to fully proc.(we're talking about 25 crits for fully procced fury to reach that ''5k weapon damage) , If those sets are so overperforming, why is cyrodiil full of magicka raids, full of magsorcs and stamblades? Your imaginary world differs from the actual reality of cyrodiil.

And that reality is that Fury+seventh is a setup that only really shines in outnumbered combat. Medium armor builds can easily *** on heavy armor setups right now, especially with bleeds and stuff. In group PvP, if you ignore the fury+seventh user, he will get absolutely no weapon damage, just for this very reason I recently dropped seventh legion for veiled heritance, so that I can get some weapon damage when I'm ignored by smart players.

As for battling medium armor players, dodge roll works very well against melee stamina players, everything in their set is dodgeable. That is not an excuse to why medium is bad.

Its the magicka builds that can trash out medium users without even trying, because their burst is unavoidable and extremely hard hitting.

Stop trying to change the point and make it look like heavy armor's fault. Its far from the truth. I'm trying to make medium work on my Dk for a very long time now(failing and going back to heavy every time), but you guys with your ''hurr durr its heavy armor's fault'' mentality, caused stamina to suffer more and more.

1. There is enough trash aoes in cyrodiil/bgs to keep fury up. The problem more so is being able to sustain but that only pertains to bgs.
2. Medium armor builds "sh*t" on heavy armor so by that logic what is wrong with light armor doing the same to medium?
3. Why do you even bother to bring up stam dk? Everyone knows that they are easily the worst stam spec right now and the boils down to class balance and nothing to do with armor.

1. as I said lots of trash AoEs requires lots of people. Fury build starts out weak and ramps up as you take damage. If that is such an issue, do not fart out weak aoes that crit? Which is also weird because aoes like caltrops etc do very decent damage.
2. medium stamina builds and heavy stamina builds are relatively balanced compared to each other. Its the magicka specs with their ridicilously high burst from the safety of range, which absolutely destroys medium users. Even heavy builds are getting a hard time surviving a magsorc/magblade burst combo. Which would be fine if they did not have the ability to face tank enemies as well as heavy armor stamina users.
Do tell me, why heavy armor doing damage is a problem but light armor magsorcs/magblades tanking as good as a heavy armor user is not?

3.Of course I'm going to bring out stamina Dk, The class has the best synergy with fury/seventh legion setup. And also every time there is a ''buff medium'' post, there is always that one tard who comes out and says hurr durr heavy armor Dks so op, thats why medium sucks.(not implying that you are that guy, don't get me wrong there. But there is aaaaaalways gonna be that one guy who cries about heavy armor stamDk, I'm just sick of it.)
And then in the next update heavy armor gets a nerf, which changes absolutely nothing.

I'm tired of this whole thing. DK passives got shrekt because of this very mental issue. redguard got nerfed for the same thing. black rose got nerfed for god knows how many times, constution got nerfed. Shuffle got changed to block heavy users. Wrath is entirely removed because of this very same QQ. Block got nerfed so bad that you could not even block without wearing sturdy+block glyphs in morrowind(which caused the meta of permablocking magDks btw), and in the end the whole thing was so ridicilous they had to buff block again for non tanks.

What more do you people want though? Heavy armor is getting nothing but nerfs since morrowind, we now have jewelrycrafting which allows you to wear heavy sets in medium, we now have sets like brass and impreg which allows you to get medium passives with heavy armor levels of tankyness and what changed for medium armor?

A huge nothing.(except the recent soul assault and cliff racer changes which helped medium more than any of the heavy armor changes) You don't need to be a rocket scientist to understand what is wrong after so many trials and errors. The moment I wear 2 weapon damage sets in medium armor and go out in cyrodiil, I will face a magsorc and die a horrible , unavoidable death. What does this have to do with Fury and seventh legion? Why are we insisting on being ignorant?

Just why?

1. We really don't have an argument here... except for the fact that heavy sets shouldn't be pumping out 500 to 700 weapon damage.

Okay, little thought experiment.

Imagine those sets (namely fury, 7th) would be medium. It wouldn't make any sense at all. Medium thrives to evade damage (shuffle, dodge) while heavy takes the dmg and exploits it (resource return, formerly wrath). Only candidates to swap armor weight without anything would be ravager and heritance.
You either have to completely redesign those sets or nerf them to the ground and make them useless.

But no need for that as you can already transmog jewels, wear a heavy chest or weapons and get the benefit while wearing 6+ medium. But you wouldn't do that because it ususally doesn't go well when you get critted 25 times in medium armor.


But it doesn't stop there. Given you turn them to medium sets, redesigned or not, you can run whatever great heavy set would remain as your armor and still run a nice then-medium set on your jewels and weapons and we are at the exact same point again where we are now. Nothing stops me from running 7 heavy with bone pirates on jewels. What's the next logical step then? Introducing a mechanic that forbids to equip medium sets when wearing min 5p heavy?

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

I think the biggest issue is that sets like ravager/ truth/veiled/fury exist which give heavy wearers the option to have insane burst potential as well as healing. Add this to the tanky nature of heavy armor and you've got the current situation. I wouldn't expect to see things change when the best damage sets are locked under heavy armor.

Nope, that is not an issue. You can wear those sets in medium now.

I think you mean you can change the jewellery to robust? If you wear the armor, it's still heavy weight. I'm just saying that much damage with tanky passives causes a lot of the issues. You shouldn't be able to eat that much damage and drop a dawnbreaker that kills several people. If zenimax clearly established what the armor weights are meant to do a lot of the issues would go away. Light and medium should be for dps and heavy for tanking. If you mix say heavy and medium you should be tanky and do damage but not as tanky or damage dealing if you were wearing just purely one weight. The fact that stam wardens can run fury along with 7th legion and have 5+k weapon damage 30+k stamina with heavy armor resists and healing is utterly broken.

As I said countless and countless times, fury+seventh legion requires you to tank extreme amounts of hits to fully proc.(we're talking about 25 crits for fully procced fury to reach that ''5k weapon damage) , If those sets are so overperforming, why is cyrodiil full of magicka raids, full of magsorcs and stamblades? Your imaginary world differs from the actual reality of cyrodiil.

And that reality is that Fury+seventh is a setup that only really shines in outnumbered combat. Medium armor builds can easily *** on heavy armor setups right now, especially with bleeds and stuff. In group PvP, if you ignore the fury+seventh user, he will get absolutely no weapon damage, just for this very reason I recently dropped seventh legion for veiled heritance, so that I can get some weapon damage when I'm ignored by smart players.

As for battling medium armor players, dodge roll works very well against melee stamina players, everything in their set is dodgeable. That is not an excuse to why medium is bad.

Its the magicka builds that can trash out medium users without even trying, because their burst is unavoidable and extremely hard hitting.

Stop trying to change the point and make it look like heavy armor's fault. Its far from the truth. I'm trying to make medium work on my Dk for a very long time now(failing and going back to heavy every time), but you guys with your ''hurr durr its heavy armor's fault'' mentality, caused stamina to suffer more and more.

1. There is enough trash aoes in cyrodiil/bgs to keep fury up. The problem more so is being able to sustain but that only pertains to bgs.
2. Medium armor builds "sh*t" on heavy armor so by that logic what is wrong with light armor doing the same to medium?
3. Why do you even bother to bring up stam dk? Everyone knows that they are easily the worst stam spec right now and the boils down to class balance and nothing to do with armor.

1. as I said lots of trash AoEs requires lots of people. Fury build starts out weak and ramps up as you take damage. If that is such an issue, do not fart out weak aoes that crit? Which is also weird because aoes like caltrops etc do very decent damage.
2. medium stamina builds and heavy stamina builds are relatively balanced compared to each other. Its the magicka specs with their ridicilously high burst from the safety of range, which absolutely destroys medium users. Even heavy builds are getting a hard time surviving a magsorc/magblade burst combo. Which would be fine if they did not have the ability to face tank enemies as well as heavy armor stamina users.
Do tell me, why heavy armor doing damage is a problem but light armor magsorcs/magblades tanking as good as a heavy armor user is not?

3.Of course I'm going to bring out stamina Dk, The class has the best synergy with fury/seventh legion setup. And also every time there is a ''buff medium'' post, there is always that one tard who comes out and says hurr durr heavy armor Dks so op, thats why medium sucks.(not implying that you are that guy, don't get me wrong there. But there is aaaaaalways gonna be that one guy who cries about heavy armor stamDk, I'm just sick of it.)
And then in the next update heavy armor gets a nerf, which changes absolutely nothing.

I'm tired of this whole thing. DK passives got shrekt because of this very mental issue. redguard got nerfed for the same thing. black rose got nerfed for god knows how many times, constution got nerfed. Shuffle got changed to block heavy users. Wrath is entirely removed because of this very same QQ. Block got nerfed so bad that you could not even block without wearing sturdy+block glyphs in morrowind(which caused the meta of permablocking magDks btw), and in the end the whole thing was so ridicilous they had to buff block again for non tanks.

What more do you people want though? Heavy armor is getting nothing but nerfs since morrowind, we now have jewelrycrafting which allows you to wear heavy sets in medium, we now have sets like brass and impreg which allows you to get medium passives with heavy armor levels of tankyness and what changed for medium armor?

A huge nothing.(except the recent soul assault and cliff racer changes which helped medium more than any of the heavy armor changes) You don't need to be a rocket scientist to understand what is wrong after so many trials and errors. The moment I wear 2 weapon damage sets in medium armor and go out in cyrodiil, I will face a magsorc and die a horrible , unavoidable death. What does this have to do with Fury and seventh legion? Why are we insisting on being ignorant?

Just why?

1. We really don't have an argument here... except for the fact that heavy sets shouldn't be pumping out 500 to 700 weapon damage.

Okay, little thought experiment.

Imagine those sets (namely fury, 7th) would be medium. It wouldn't make any sense at all. Medium thrives to evade damage (shuffle, dodge) while heavy takes the dmg and exploits it (resource return, formerly wrath). Only candidates to swap armor weight without anything would be ravager and heritance.
You either have to completely redesign those sets or nerf them to the ground and make them useless.

But no need for that as you can already transmog jewels, wear a heavy chest or weapons and get the benefit while wearing 6+ medium. But you wouldn't do that because it ususally doesn't go well when you get critted 25 times in medium armor.


But it doesn't stop there. Given you turn them to medium sets, redesigned or not, you can run whatever great heavy set would remain as your armor and still run a nice then-medium set on your jewels and weapons and we are at the exact same point again where we are now. Nothing stops me from running 7 heavy with bone pirates on jewels. What's the next logical step then? Introducing a mechanic that forbids to equip medium sets when wearing min 5p heavy?

Forum people sure do grasp at a lot of strawman arguments. It's simple... Light and medium should equal dps and heavy should equal tanking/survivability. Zos got this one fundamental wrong from the beginning and here we are.

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

I think the biggest issue is that sets like ravager/ truth/veiled/fury exist which give heavy wearers the option to have insane burst potential as well as healing. Add this to the tanky nature of heavy armor and you've got the current situation. I wouldn't expect to see things change when the best damage sets are locked under heavy armor.

Nope, that is not an issue. You can wear those sets in medium now.

I think you mean you can change the jewellery to robust? If you wear the armor, it's still heavy weight. I'm just saying that much damage with tanky passives causes a lot of the issues. You shouldn't be able to eat that much damage and drop a dawnbreaker that kills several people. If zenimax clearly established what the armor weights are meant to do a lot of the issues would go away. Light and medium should be for dps and heavy for tanking. If you mix say heavy and medium you should be tanky and do damage but not as tanky or damage dealing if you were wearing just purely one weight. The fact that stam wardens can run fury along with 7th legion and have 5+k weapon damage 30+k stamina with heavy armor resists and healing is utterly broken.

As I said countless and countless times, fury+seventh legion requires you to tank extreme amounts of hits to fully proc.(we're talking about 25 crits for fully procced fury to reach that ''5k weapon damage) , If those sets are so overperforming, why is cyrodiil full of magicka raids, full of magsorcs and stamblades? Your imaginary world differs from the actual reality of cyrodiil.

And that reality is that Fury+seventh is a setup that only really shines in outnumbered combat. Medium armor builds can easily *** on heavy armor setups right now, especially with bleeds and stuff. In group PvP, if you ignore the fury+seventh user, he will get absolutely no weapon damage, just for this very reason I recently dropped seventh legion for veiled heritance, so that I can get some weapon damage when I'm ignored by smart players.

As for battling medium armor players, dodge roll works very well against melee stamina players, everything in their set is dodgeable. That is not an excuse to why medium is bad.

Its the magicka builds that can trash out medium users without even trying, because their burst is unavoidable and extremely hard hitting.

Stop trying to change the point and make it look like heavy armor's fault. Its far from the truth. I'm trying to make medium work on my Dk for a very long time now(failing and going back to heavy every time), but you guys with your ''hurr durr its heavy armor's fault'' mentality, caused stamina to suffer more and more.

1. There is enough trash aoes in cyrodiil/bgs to keep fury up. The problem more so is being able to sustain but that only pertains to bgs.
2. Medium armor builds "sh*t" on heavy armor so by that logic what is wrong with light armor doing the same to medium?
3. Why do you even bother to bring up stam dk? Everyone knows that they are easily the worst stam spec right now and the boils down to class balance and nothing to do with armor.

1. as I said lots of trash AoEs requires lots of people. Fury build starts out weak and ramps up as you take damage. If that is such an issue, do not fart out weak aoes that crit? Which is also weird because aoes like caltrops etc do very decent damage.
2. medium stamina builds and heavy stamina builds are relatively balanced compared to each other. Its the magicka specs with their ridicilously high burst from the safety of range, which absolutely destroys medium users. Even heavy builds are getting a hard time surviving a magsorc/magblade burst combo. Which would be fine if they did not have the ability to face tank enemies as well as heavy armor stamina users.
Do tell me, why heavy armor doing damage is a problem but light armor magsorcs/magblades tanking as good as a heavy armor user is not?

3.Of course I'm going to bring out stamina Dk, The class has the best synergy with fury/seventh legion setup. And also every time there is a ''buff medium'' post, there is always that one tard who comes out and says hurr durr heavy armor Dks so op, thats why medium sucks.(not implying that you are that guy, don't get me wrong there. But there is aaaaaalways gonna be that one guy who cries about heavy armor stamDk, I'm just sick of it.)
And then in the next update heavy armor gets a nerf, which changes absolutely nothing.

I'm tired of this whole thing. DK passives got shrekt because of this very mental issue. redguard got nerfed for the same thing. black rose got nerfed for god knows how many times, constution got nerfed. Shuffle got changed to block heavy users. Wrath is entirely removed because of this very same QQ. Block got nerfed so bad that you could not even block without wearing sturdy+block glyphs in morrowind(which caused the meta of permablocking magDks btw), and in the end the whole thing was so ridicilous they had to buff block again for non tanks.

What more do you people want though? Heavy armor is getting nothing but nerfs since morrowind, we now have jewelrycrafting which allows you to wear heavy sets in medium, we now have sets like brass and impreg which allows you to get medium passives with heavy armor levels of tankyness and what changed for medium armor?

A huge nothing.(except the recent soul assault and cliff racer changes which helped medium more than any of the heavy armor changes) You don't need to be a rocket scientist to understand what is wrong after so many trials and errors. The moment I wear 2 weapon damage sets in medium armor and go out in cyrodiil, I will face a magsorc and die a horrible , unavoidable death. What does this have to do with Fury and seventh legion? Why are we insisting on being ignorant?

Just why?

1. We really don't have an argument here... except for the fact that heavy sets shouldn't be pumping out 500 to 700 weapon damage.

Okay, little thought experiment.

Imagine those sets (namely fury, 7th) would be medium. It wouldn't make any sense at all. Medium thrives to evade damage (shuffle, dodge) while heavy takes the dmg and exploits it (resource return, formerly wrath). Only candidates to swap armor weight without anything would be ravager and heritance.
You either have to completely redesign those sets or nerf them to the ground and make them useless.

But no need for that as you can already transmog jewels, wear a heavy chest or weapons and get the benefit while wearing 6+ medium. But you wouldn't do that because it ususally doesn't go well when you get critted 25 times in medium armor.


But it doesn't stop there. Given you turn them to medium sets, redesigned or not, you can run whatever great heavy set would remain as your armor and still run a nice then-medium set on your jewels and weapons and we are at the exact same point again where we are now. Nothing stops me from running 7 heavy with bone pirates on jewels. What's the next logical step then? Introducing a mechanic that forbids to equip medium sets when wearing min 5p heavy?

Forum people sure do grasp at a lot of strawman arguments. It's simple... Light and medium should equal dps and heavy should equal tanking/survivability. Zos got this one fundamental wrong from the beginning and here we are.

You will do more damage in light and medium though. Heavy has good damage but with new jewelery crafting and staff changes light and medium will do more damage. Heavys also needs to have decent damage in this day and age because the burst damage in PvP makes it pretty mandatory for solo players. I switch between light and heavy regularly and I find light to only be playable solo on magsorc. I figure it's probably the same for medium decent on stamblade but not so strong on the other classes. I wouldn't say heavy armor is better overall because on paper light and medium have really good passives, but the way players in cyrodiil Zerg heavy is becoming mandatory.

I don’t know if this has been mentioned yet but I think a good start to “fixing” medium armor would be to change the “Improved Sneak” passive. As is, it only substantially helps stam nb’s. (I wouldn’t mind the improved sneak part of it trashed and it changed to level the playing field between stam nb’s and other stam classes.)

If you think this would be a good idea, let me know what you think the passive could be changed to. I have a couple of ideas myself. Maybe it could be changed to increase a 5-medium wearers healing done and healing received by 5% or 10% for 3 seconds successfully dodging an attack with a dodge roll. That seems like a pretty nice buff to the survivability of medium armor. Let me know what you think!

I'd kill for an instant cast wrecking blow, with reduced damage or whatever to compensate. Can't stand the cast time, especially with increased ping and lag

But to speak on medium resistances that shouldnt be a pssive it should just be armor vaule of medium slightly increased i do believe heavy has its spot as you are able to do dmg but not enough to burst someone who has buffs up. Its in a good spot but medium needs its spot now i feel it is basically useless to run because you get blown up

Maybe rework shuffle to make it so you have recov while roll dodge and sprinting while active or for a few seconds after activation