I want to run DLC dungeons with my tank, it's what I created it for. But when I click random I just get BC, CoA and VoM.

Can't we just exchange rng somehow?

As a tank I agree. I honestly hate the dlc dungeons as a tank. The mechanics were not made with tanks in mind.

DLC dungeons are fun as a tank, and I bet that the payroll is not the reason some people dont play them. The worst tank experience for me is offtanking vAS+2 because you need to:

- not die
- heal yourself
- sometimes heal the group
- taunt the adds constantly
- cast shields to protect yourself and the group from miniboss mechanics
- apply crusher enchant
- apply engulfing flames
- apply wall of elements for offbalance and concussion
- be a backup interrupter with crushing shock
- use purge to purge yourself and the group
- maintain alkosh enchant if not using totug's pact)
- (optional - provide orbs)
- (optional - apply ele drain)
- (optional - use weakening enchant on one of the bars)
- (optional - use low slash to apply minor maim to reduce miniboss damage and gain ultimate)

As you can see you have more responsibilities there than the 10 available bar slots. So not only you need to pick what is most helpful for the group, but in all cases you will never be able to constantly apply all de-buffs while keeping taunt and stacking bosses together.

It is hard enough to hold a boss by the nose and take everything he has to dish out while trying to pull in and lock down significant adds to create a tight little killing zone for the dps' AoE. As we know, it takes a lot of specialization and sacrifice to pull that off. When it works though the feeling is magnificent because that is what a tank is meant to do.

On the other hand, when a boss will not hold taunt or periodically ignores it to go try and kill a squishy, that makes the tank (at least this one) feel absolutely worthless. It's not like I can chain the recalcitrant boss back because, oh yeah, they're immune to that. Or maybe I can help with my awesome dps. . . oh wait. . . 4K dps vs 2.7M hitpoints. . . . Yeah. No wonder there are so few tanks.

Basically, @Unit117 said it alot more concisely than I.

As a tank you can queue for the specific dungeon you want and the queue will pop in minutes, if not seconds. Your argument has no merit, just don't queue for randoms.

I agree with what the others have posted. DF is not the problem, it is pretty random. The problem is the design.
1: 1 shot mechanics; 1 shotting DD and healers is fine, but if it 1shots the tank, what's the point in the tank.
2: untauntable bosses; pretty obvious
3: buff/debuff DD meta; you're not a TANK, you're pure DD support, therefore, no variety (granted a problem for all if you go full meta)
4: all the rest of the game! You hit like a wet noodle so it takes ages to kill a standard mob, or, you fill your bag with a dmg set and unlock more abilities so you can DRASTICALLY change your build.
5: I love tanking in all my previous MMO's; I don't hate tanking in ESO, I hate solo tanking in ESO, I love the queue time in ESO!

Thorstienn wrote: »

I agree with what the others have posted. DF is not the problem, it is pretty random. The problem is the design.
1: 1 shot mechanics; 1 shotting DD and healers is fine, but if it 1shots the tank, what's the point in the tank.
2: untauntable bosses; pretty obvious
3: buff/debuff DD meta; you're not a TANK, you're pure DD support, therefore, no variety (granted a problem for all if you go full meta)
4: all the rest of the game! You hit like a wet noodle so it takes ages to kill a standard mob, or, you fill your bag with a dmg set and unlock more abilities so you can DRASTICALLY change your build.
5: I love tanking in all my previous MMO's; I don't hate tanking in ESO, I hate solo tanking in ESO, I love the queue time in ESO!

1. If you're getting 1 shot as a tank, it's probably your fault.
2. The Planar Inhibitor was untauntable, but tanks are still pretty valued for the fight. ARE there any fights where the boss is just plain untauntable no matter what?
3. Agreed. Being basically a b with an itch boi for the DPS is MEH with a side of MEH.
4. I tank and dps on all my characters, and heal on the magicka ones. And heck, you're a tank. You're amazing in a good chunk of the game and have not only no issues doing the thing, but can do/get into the thing instantly. Having to have a few spare weapons and armor pieces around and maybe mowing through open world slightly slower than a dps is, I think, a negligible price to pay. Also, it's certainly not a drastic change to your build - maybe your CP if you were previously doing vet trials or something? But I don't think it's a big a change as you seem to make it out to be.

Also, I think if we try and push ZOS to address the tanks lack of damage just because they're lacking damage and can't plow through OW as fast as DPS, they'll come up with something horrible. I do believe it's a symptom of a bigger issue rather than the main thing. If the whole being basically a stepping stone for your DPS to reach godhood thing is changed a bit so tanks can be more than stepping stones who get railed on by the boss just because they've slotted a taunt, then I think the lack of dmg elsewhere will be somewhat alleviated due to increased build variety in trials - aka you'll be able to build for more dmg in trials and still be taken along, which will result in needing to change your build less when doing other stuff.

Thorstienn wrote: »

Riptide wrote: »

Why would you solo quest on a tank? Seriously now, there are 8 character slots. It is not that time consuming to set up one character for overland, one for tanking.

If you are stubborn about that, its your deal.

If this was to me: sky shards, guild line unlocks, getting overland gear etc.

Or simply, maybe some people want to play their characters in all content.

I make my character a tank after he's maxed on those.

Tank from beginning to end sounds awful

Tonturri wrote: »

Thorstienn wrote: »

I agree with what the others have posted. DF is not the problem, it is pretty random. The problem is the design.
1: 1 shot mechanics; 1 shotting DD and healers is fine, but if it 1shots the tank, what's the point in the tank.
2: untauntable bosses; pretty obvious
3: buff/debuff DD meta; you're not a TANK, you're pure DD support, therefore, no variety (granted a problem for all if you go full meta)
4: all the rest of the game! You hit like a wet noodle so it takes ages to kill a standard mob, or, you fill your bag with a dmg set and unlock more abilities so you can DRASTICALLY change your build.
5: I love tanking in all my previous MMO's; I don't hate tanking in ESO, I hate solo tanking in ESO, I love the queue time in ESO!

1. If you're getting 1 shot as a tank, it's probably your fault.
2. The Planar Inhibitor was untauntable, but tanks are still pretty valued for the fight. ARE there any fights where the boss is just plain untauntable no matter what?
3. Agreed. Being basically a b with an itch boi for the DPS is MEH with a side of MEH.
4. I tank and dps on all my characters, and heal on the magicka ones. And heck, you're a tank. You're amazing in a good chunk of the game and have not only no issues doing the thing, but can do/get into the thing instantly. Having to have a few spare weapons and armor pieces around and maybe mowing through open world slightly slower than a dps is, I think, a negligible price to pay. Also, it's certainly not a drastic change to your build - maybe your CP if you were previously doing vet trials or something? But I don't think it's a big a change as you seem to make it out to be.

Also, I think if we try and push ZOS to address the tanks lack of damage just because they're lacking damage and can't plow through OW as fast as DPS, they'll come up with something horrible. I do believe it's a symptom of a bigger issue rather than the main thing. If the whole being basically a stepping stone for your DPS to reach godhood thing is changed a bit so tanks can be more than stepping stones who get railed on by the boss just because they've slotted a taunt, then I think the lack of dmg elsewhere will be somewhat alleviated due to increased build variety in trials - aka you'll be able to build for more dmg in trials and still be taken along, which will result in needing to change your build less when doing other stuff.

1: I agree. My point was if the mechanic 1shots unless you get out of it, a tank isn't needed.
2: forget names: last boss Direfrost Keep, Last boss DC 2, planar as you mentioned (maybe more, but they come to mind)
4: I love tanking but overworked is a HUGE part of this game. I don't want more dmg, DD need less dmg (I have 14 characters, not all tanks) and content adjusted.
Finally, this is about; Why aren't there more tanks? What's the 1st thing people say to someone when they start the game and want to be a tank: go DD and respect at max lvl!

Aside: my 1st character is a Nord Templar tank, and he leveled all the way with sword and board (medium armor at the start and mixed stats etc, but evolved).

My main started off as a classic stamDK 1H&S tank and I spent a year developing him. Then ZoS released Morrowind and destroyed the meta by wrecking stam regen and they've been making it progressively harder ever since. So after 2k game hours I gave up and turned him into another DW character, which is less interesting but more satisfying because he can at least do damage. I'm genuinely angry at ZoS for wrecking the meta. I put up with a lot, including pitiful DPS, to build a viable solo/dungeon character and to have that all wasted really sticks in my craw. I can't just turn him into a dungeon only character because he's my main and has to be flexible. While he now solos far more easily he'll never tank again, so everybody loses. It's just too hard for us mere mortals.

Considering you get the same XP bonus for random dungeons regardless of selecting vet or normal - why not just do normal? If you're tank cannot handle normal DLC dungeons, then you should not be queuing for any vet dungeons.

Good tanks are simply not fun for most people in PVE because they are only of use in group content. Leveling and questing in a proper tank is slow and tedious, people would much rather build a dps and steamroll through.

My first tank has cadwells silver and gold completed but out of 13 characters, only 2 of them are tanks.

Thorstienn wrote: »

Tonturri wrote: »

Thorstienn wrote: »

I agree with what the others have posted. DF is not the problem, it is pretty random. The problem is the design.
1: 1 shot mechanics; 1 shotting DD and healers is fine, but if it 1shots the tank, what's the point in the tank.
2: untauntable bosses; pretty obvious
3: buff/debuff DD meta; you're not a TANK, you're pure DD support, therefore, no variety (granted a problem for all if you go full meta)
4: all the rest of the game! You hit like a wet noodle so it takes ages to kill a standard mob, or, you fill your bag with a dmg set and unlock more abilities so you can DRASTICALLY change your build.
5: I love tanking in all my previous MMO's; I don't hate tanking in ESO, I hate solo tanking in ESO, I love the queue time in ESO!

1. If you're getting 1 shot as a tank, it's probably your fault.
2. The Planar Inhibitor was untauntable, but tanks are still pretty valued for the fight. ARE there any fights where the boss is just plain untauntable no matter what?
3. Agreed. Being basically a b with an itch boi for the DPS is MEH with a side of MEH.
4. I tank and dps on all my characters, and heal on the magicka ones. And heck, you're a tank. You're amazing in a good chunk of the game and have not only no issues doing the thing, but can do/get into the thing instantly. Having to have a few spare weapons and armor pieces around and maybe mowing through open world slightly slower than a dps is, I think, a negligible price to pay. Also, it's certainly not a drastic change to your build - maybe your CP if you were previously doing vet trials or something? But I don't think it's a big a change as you seem to make it out to be.

Also, I think if we try and push ZOS to address the tanks lack of damage just because they're lacking damage and can't plow through OW as fast as DPS, they'll come up with something horrible. I do believe it's a symptom of a bigger issue rather than the main thing. If the whole being basically a stepping stone for your DPS to reach godhood thing is changed a bit so tanks can be more than stepping stones who get railed on by the boss just because they've slotted a taunt, then I think the lack of dmg elsewhere will be somewhat alleviated due to increased build variety in trials - aka you'll be able to build for more dmg in trials and still be taken along, which will result in needing to change your build less when doing other stuff.

1: I agree. My point was if the mechanic 1shots unless you get out of it, a tank isn't needed.
2: forget names: last boss Direfrost Keep, Last boss DC 2, planar as you mentioned (maybe more, but they come to mind)
4: I love tanking but overworked is a HUGE part of this game. I don't want more dmg, DD need less dmg (I have 14 characters, not all tanks) and content adjusted.
Finally, this is about; Why aren't there more tanks? What's the 1st thing people say to someone when they start the game and want to be a tank: go DD and respect at max lvl!

Aside: my 1st character is a Nord Templar tank, and he leveled all the way with sword and board (medium armor at the start and mixed stats etc, but evolved).

1. Insofar as I remember, those mechanics are rather contained..and everybody else has to get out of it, too. On fights that have such a mechanic, I highly doubt that the mechanic voids the need for a tank all on its own.
2. DC 2 having a tank is still useful for ad control. Your job just changes a little (Switch up skills or something). Of course you can do it without a tank, but that's more a result of power creep than anything else. Back when, I remember loving having a tank on that fight.

1 & 2 - so, I generally disagree that having an untauntable boss or 1-shot mechanic in a fight is what's lessening the tank population, or the need for a tank. Almost always, I've found it's been just...old content becoming easier and easier. Still, I'm not sure it's a good idea to go back and make the base game dungeons harder just because of that. Tanks are definitely still needed/used on your average (say, pug group, no one CP capped, may have varying degree of competence, etc)

4. Designated health scaling abilities for classes would, I think, help a little bit (like warden has a nice selection compared to all the other classes). I think this could be solved by giving tanks some sort of damage-return mechanic that functions similarily to DK's armor buff spiked...thingymajigger, except actually noticeable. Nothing too strong, but something extra for tanks to use. Bone Shield, in particular, comes to mind...it has a morph that returns melee damage. Maybe switch it with blood altar or something and make it baseline/scale returned dmg off health - again, do this if needed.

Players have always screwed with intended methods of progression (like leveling being totally doable in a reasonable amount of time by any build but one where you're effectively not slotting any skill or hitting your enemies)by being meta pushers, though, even going so far as to give such advice to new players - when in reality you can definitely level up as a 'tank' because of stat scaling...unless you go all in and like, slot nothing but abilities totally unrelated to your build, but then that's a player problem.

Lacking tanks isn't an ESO specific problem, either, and in other games (WoW) you can level perfectly fine - sometimes faster - on a tank setup than a DPS one, and it still sees a tank shortage. This is partially why I'm a little iffy on your reasoning. It might just be the responsibility tanks have and the amount of abuse they get if they screw up even the slightest - but again, that'd be an issue brought into being by players, and not one I think that is very solvable. But it's late and I need sleep. Gonna think on this.

Thorstienn wrote: »

4: all the rest of the game! You hit like a wet noodle so it takes ages to kill a standard mob, or, you fill your bag with a dmg set and unlock more abilities so you can DRASTICALLY change your build.

I wish we had Add-Ons on console to change skill bars and outfits with a few clicks instead of handpicking every single skill and item every time we want to change from tank to dd to healer and back..

Riptide wrote: »

If this was to me: sky shards, guild line unlocks, getting overland gear etc.

Or simply, maybe some people want to play their characters in all content.

Guild line unlocks and skyshards simply require rapids, which takes literally 5 minutes to aquire. No need to fight much of anything. And what need has a tank for maxing mages guild? No need. And with the 1-50 skillpoints, the skillpoints picked up from dungeons, you have more than enough to tank vet content with after clearing the normals.

I get that people want to play that one toon to do everything, and hey, its their dime and time.

But a sensible person would bang their head against that wall, spec the tank to tank and tank with it, and run another toon for overland adventuring. That requires no crazy overhall to tanking with butterfly effect balance chaos, it just requires a person to not be stubborn about it and accept that there are 8 character slots for a reason. It isn’t time consuming, certainly far less than questing on a tank.

And from experience, it takes 5 minutes to log off a toon, log in tank, queue for what ya want, it pops. Its always near to hand when you are in the mood. No armor and skill switching junk, just rock.

I have similar looks and same armor style for all my characters. Its seemless and no gnashing of teeth. But whatever works for folks

I can do the overland content on my tank just fine. Some stuff goes a bit slower, but I still mamage to kill stuff. And I dont have problems with dlc content as randoms either, but if you get the same stuff day after day because bad rng you are bound to burn people out quickly. And considering that healers can go dps on their backbar, with light armor, tanks need a whole different build with different armor and characterpoints as well....

Long story short: dont put me into dlc dungeons all the time because there are no other tanks that want to run them!