I Simply Don't Care...

Valerien · July 2018

The graphics are amazing, the writing and VO phenomenal (the Altmer that thought she was Investigator Vale need I say more) and the game play wonderful. And yet I find I am having an incredibly hard time working through Summerset. I play for a bit and then find myself with other things to do and I couldn't work out why and then it dawned on me, I simply don't care what happens next.

I roll between being a scummy outsider to someone needed to risk life and limb in battle with the daedric princes after having already fought through all the previous world or guild or zone ending plots. And yet nothing changes, I am still that nameless, faceless, personality-less do gooder who for 332 gold and some green piece of junk will slay that army of whatever. The we will then never speak of it again as that may give me some personality so instead I will move on to help the next insulting, begging or whatever person I find over the next hill to repeat the same experience all over again.

My character seems to have no agency or connection to the world or events, either in the personal or the epic in scope, instead just being an observer while others have all the fun. Even the small things such as Raz gets to stay with the pretty high elf while I head off to battle goblins gives him more connection to the story. I know a bad example as Raz is just always interesting so to compare anyone to him is unfair but even a certain Golden Knight has become a champion of a Daedric prince while my character continue to stalk artists to see if he can get them some pigments.

So I guess this is a plea to the writers/developers or Daedric Princes, can we get a few stories where the player gets the chance to direct events more than just be the muscle, to out fox their enemies, set plans into motion as opposed to always having the react to such plans, win the hand of the princess/prince (queen Ayrenn) or even just for once have someone come to you on bended knee while you sit on your throne and seek your aid rather than have to run up to strangers and ask to help them while they insult your parentage. Even the next update seems to be one where the enemy has been active in capturing a castle while we if we can be bothered will slay the big bad and then walk away hopefully with a motif or mask. Hell it would be nice to do the capturing and keeping for once.

Facefister · July 2018

No, you're one tiny bit of many players. I saw it in WoW, where everyone is the commander, the hero, the saviour of the galaxy. It totally ruins the immersion.

griffkhalifa · July 2018

Valerien wrote: »

The graphics are amazing, the writing and VO phenomenal (the Altmer that thought she was Investigator Vale need I say more) and the game play wonderful. And yet I find I am having an incredibly hard time working through Summerset. I play for a bit and then find myself with other things to do and I couldn't work out why and then it dawned on me, I simply don't care what happens next.

I roll between being a scummy outsider to someone needed to risk life and limb in battle with the daedric princes after having already fought through all the previous world or guild or zone ending plots. And yet nothing changes, I am still that nameless, faceless, personality-less do gooder who for 332 gold and some green piece of junk will slay that army of whatever. The we will then never speak of it again as that may give me some personality so instead I will move on to help the next insulting, begging or whatever person I find over the next hill to repeat the same experience all over again.

My character seems to have no agency or connection to the world or events, either in the personal or the epic in scope, instead just being an observer while others have all the fun. Even the small things such as Raz gets to stay with the pretty high elf while I head off to battle goblins gives him more connection to the story. I know a bad example as Raz is just always interesting so to compare anyone to him is unfair but even a certain Golden Knight has become a champion of a Daedric prince while my character continue to stalk artists to see if he can get them some pigments.

So I guess this is a plea to the writers/developers or Daedric Princes, can we get a few stories where the player gets the chance to direct events more than just be the muscle, to out fox their enemies, set plans into motion as opposed to always having the react to such plans, win the hand of the princess/prince (queen Ayrenn) or even just for once have someone come to you on bended knee while you sit on your throne and seek your aid rather than have to run up to strangers and ask to help them while they insult your parentage. Even the next update seems to be one where the enemy has been active in capturing a castle while we if we can be bothered will slay the big bad and then walk away hopefully with a motif or mask. Hell it would be nice to do the capturing and keeping for once.

Sounds like you're after a single-player adventure and not an MMO. Nothing wrong with that, just stating a fact. The whole point of MMO's are the other things to do and social activities outside of questing.

Bladerunner1 · July 2018

Ever tried joining roleplayers? Pretty much solves all the issues, except maybe the sitting on a throne part, unless a group of players like the idea.

EvilCroc · July 2018

All players represent the same person - Vestige. So, even if personally you have done nothing - your character is still savior of the galaxy, etc.

Kiralyn2000 · July 2018

Facefister wrote: »

No, you're one tiny bit of many players. I saw it in WoW, where everyone is the commander, the hero, the saviour of the galaxy. It totally ruins the immersion.

No, you are The One Hero here, just like in WoW.

But yeah, this is a Normal Pattern PvE MMO. We're going to keep doing jobs for people. I don't think the structure of the game could really support giving you agency.

Everstorm · July 2018

EvilCroc wrote: »

All players represent the same person - Vestige. So, even if personally you have done nothing - your character is still savior of the galaxy, etc.

The problem is that there are no meaningful choices to make. Which is inherent to the MMO genre since everyone has to live in the same consistent world. You either have to forcefully suspend your own disbelief, or stick to single player games.

JasmineMcCoy · July 2018

Valerien wrote: »

or even just for once have someone come to you on bended knee while you sit on your throne and seek your aid

No, please, I can't even teleport to a zone with an alt without a horde of NPCs chasing me screaming about their kidnapped wives, lost shipments, bandits pillaging their village or daedra stealing their favourite pair of pants.

VaranisArano · July 2018

I tend to role play my way through the story, narrating how my character would rather than exactly how the game has it.

My Dunmer Vestige, who's already saved the world from Molag Bal, came to Summerset to enjoy a vacation and is perpetually annoyed to be asked to solve everyone's problems and treated like a nobody by provincial Altmer who haven't a clue who she is. Except for Raz, who she's worked with before.

My Breton master thief and Silencer of the Dark Brotherhood, on the other hand, just got back from foiling the Triad's plan for Clockwork City and is absolutely delighted to help out the Psijic Order and the Altmer - since it means they are giving her access to all these secret places with many valuable things to steal and important people to murder. Hail Sithis!

The_Protagonist · July 2018

Just think of the NPC as poor souls caught in a time warp, where they are destined for eternal torment to go through their trouble millions of time (count 11 million for now) and still have the same problem when a new vestige is revealed from the ether.

Mainly this makes me feel more sad for poor soul than me not getting recognition for my efforts, I get paid and move on, they are just trapped.

Add on to that, the NPCs that are murdered by my Dark Brotherhood brethren, are reborn to be murdered again, realizing this makes me feel so much better.

Rain_Greyraven · July 2018

The_Protagonist wrote: »

Just think of the NPC as poor souls caught in a time warp, where they are destined for eternal torment to go through their trouble millions of time (count 11 million for now) and still have the same problem when a new vestige is revealed from the ether.

Mainly this makes me feel more sad for poor soul than me not getting recognition for my efforts, I get paid and move on, they are just trapped.

Add on to that, the NPCs that are murdered by my Dark Brotherhood brethren, are reborn to be murdered again, realizing this makes me feel so much better.

Well that is actually changing in MMO's thanks to AI, I'm currently consulting for a developer that is creating unique NPC's with daily habits (Like getting up opening their shop going home, going to the pub etc) You will see this on several off the shelf game development engines , in the next year or two.

In five years it is going to be harder to distinguish players from NPC's without some type of tell like a name tag, in Ten years you won't be able to tell.

#thefutureisawesome

Rohamad_Ali · July 2018

We only get paid 333 gold? Forget that then ...

Cuthceol · July 2018

Rain_Greyraven wrote: »

The_Protagonist wrote: »

Just think of the NPC as poor souls caught in a time warp, where they are destined for eternal torment to go through their trouble millions of time (count 11 million for now) and still have the same problem when a new vestige is revealed from the ether.

Mainly this makes me feel more sad for poor soul than me not getting recognition for my efforts, I get paid and move on, they are just trapped.

Add on to that, the NPCs that are murdered by my Dark Brotherhood brethren, are reborn to be murdered again, realizing this makes me feel so much better.

Well that is actually changing in MMO's thanks to AI, I'm currently consulting for a developer that is creating unique NPC's with daily habits (Like getting up opening their shop going home, going to the pub etc) You will see this on several off the shelf game development engines , in the next year or two.

In five years it is going to be harder to distinguish players from NPC's without some type of tell like a name tag, in Ten years you won't be able to tell.

#thefutureisawesome

hasn't that kinda ai been in single player games for decades? what took so long?

GimpyPorcupine · July 2018

Rain_Greyraven wrote: »

In five years it is going to be harder to distinguish players from NPC's without some type of tell like a name tag, in Ten years you won't be able to tell.

#thefutureisawesome

I can't tell the difference now IRL.

Rain_Greyraven · July 2018

WasteOfTime wrote: »

Rain_Greyraven wrote: »

The_Protagonist wrote: »

Just think of the NPC as poor souls caught in a time warp, where they are destined for eternal torment to go through their trouble millions of time (count 11 million for now) and still have the same problem when a new vestige is revealed from the ether.

Mainly this makes me feel more sad for poor soul than me not getting recognition for my efforts, I get paid and move on, they are just trapped.

Add on to that, the NPCs that are murdered by my Dark Brotherhood brethren, are reborn to be murdered again, realizing this makes me feel so much better.

Well that is actually changing in MMO's thanks to AI, I'm currently consulting for a developer that is creating unique NPC's with daily habits (Like getting up opening their shop going home, going to the pub etc) You will see this on several off the shelf game development engines , in the next year or two.

In five years it is going to be harder to distinguish players from NPC's without some type of tell like a name tag, in Ten years you won't be able to tell.

#thefutureisawesome

hasn't that kinda ai been in single player games for decades? what took so long?

Not like this, the AI that is being developed now is like nothing even conceived of before. I think we are going to end up with a lot of current generation games that are about as far apart as AOL's Neverwinter Nights than FFXIV is today.

GimpyPorcupine wrote: »

I can't tell the difference now IRL.

LOL! Awesome

jedtb16_ESO · July 2018

EvilCroc wrote: »

All players represent the same person - Vestige. So, even if personally you have done nothing - your character is still savior of the galaxy, etc.

not necessarily.

i'm playing through one 1 toon, mid 30's hybrid nb, that has never been to coldharbour.... and is never going there.

soul intact, never the vestige.

Myux · July 2018

the writers for this game are infinitely better than anything bethesda has written in the past decade so honestly they get all the praise from me for actually making fun characters in a *** elder scrolls game, a concept which was so bizarre to see after oblivion and skyrim, so i dont really care what they do cause they seem to be enjoying doing their own thing.

also morrowinds characters were still written boringly for the most part. cry about it

xan4silkb14_ESO · July 2018

I could have sworn I've heard some random NPC's make mention of things of done as I run through town in Daggerfall, particularly some of the guards after I completed the Bloodthorn Assassins quest and saving the King. I do remember hearing a town crier basically listing off some of the zone quests I'd recently completed, although my character's name wasn't mentioned.

Nestor · July 2018

OP, It would go against lore for most Altmer to consider other races exist, much less show consideration to any outsiders. There is even a dialog thread with one of the Job Brokers that illustrates this. I do hear plenty from rank and file NPCs concerning my prior exploits.

kamkar · July 2018

(Shattered sound)
The game is ruined for me.

What is role-playing guild and how they solve this problem?
I always role play alone.

Necrelios · July 2018

ESO is like when you know you're getting socks for your birthday, because you always get socks, and then your birthday finally arrives and you get socks. Not that I have a problem with socks or birthdays. That's not the point. It's the allure of the whole thing that is missing.

Kel · July 2018

Valerien wrote: »

The graphics are amazing, the writing and VO phenomenal (the Altmer that thought she was Investigator Vale need I say more) and the game play wonderful. And yet I find I am having an incredibly hard time working through Summerset. I play for a bit and then find myself with other things to do and I couldn't work out why and then it dawned on me, I simply don't care what happens next.

I roll between being a scummy outsider to someone needed to risk life and limb in battle with the daedric princes after having already fought through all the previous world or guild or zone ending plots. And yet nothing changes, I am still that nameless, faceless, personality-less do gooder who for 332 gold and some green piece of junk will slay that army of whatever. The we will then never speak of it again as that may give me some personality so instead I will move on to help the next insulting, begging or whatever person I find over the next hill to repeat the same experience all over again.

My character seems to have no agency or connection to the world or events, either in the personal or the epic in scope, instead just being an observer while others have all the fun. Even the small things such as Raz gets to stay with the pretty high elf while I head off to battle goblins gives him more connection to the story. I know a bad example as Raz is just always interesting so to compare anyone to him is unfair but even a certain Golden Knight has become a champion of a Daedric prince while my character continue to stalk artists to see if he can get them some pigments.

So I guess this is a plea to the writers/developers or Daedric Princes, can we get a few stories where the player gets the chance to direct events more than just be the muscle, to out fox their enemies, set plans into motion as opposed to always having the react to such plans, win the hand of the princess/prince (queen Ayrenn) or even just for once have someone come to you on bended knee while you sit on your throne and seek your aid rather than have to run up to strangers and ask to help them while they insult your parentage. Even the next update seems to be one where the enemy has been active in capturing a castle while we if we can be bothered will slay the big bad and then walk away hopefully with a motif or mask. Hell it would be nice to do the capturing and keeping for once.

This is hilarious....only because in World of Warcraft players want to go back to that nameless, mercenary type of adventurer who doesn't have a hand in shaking up world events.
While you can't compare the games, mmo players are not all that unique. So it struck me as funny reading this, after so many years of reading how players (in another game, granted) don't want to be the world renowned hero.

Valerien · July 2018

I appreciate that it may sound like a single player story or not possible in an MMO. However much of the experience is a single solo adventure. From the big things like taking down a daedric prince (or many) to being the champion of a guild or even helping uncover the identity of the sweet roll killer the story is told as if the player is the only person completing the tasks and not as part of an MMO full of other adventures.

Now I suspect if you were to try and write a story that took into account many other players you would have a hard time and forced to make it so generic as you wouldn't be able to kill any named individuals let alone save the world multiple times.

So what we end up with is a solo story in which you can save the world only nobody really talks about it. Your adventures all become stand alone and the rewards limited to what you can stick in your sack and there are never any lasting consequences. One of my favorite single Player RPG's is the Witcher 3 and perhaps because of the darker elements or what you can do in a single player game it always felt that the story/lore and actions of the Witcher were connected to the game world. So sometimes the choices were hard to make, where you don't know whats going to work out and you don't always know whose side to take cause you can empathizes with both groups; or the group that is in the right is going to do some pretty bad things if you side with them. Ultimately it feels like you are affecting the world for better or worse and that you leave your mark on the world.

Now perhaps MMO's have to be more like an episode of the Simpsons where everything is the same at the end of the episode as they were at the beginning. But it would be nice if there was some continuation and continuity even if only seen in personal solo instances (like the Vestiges quests) and dialogues where its more than just a throw away comment tacked on round the important information. In short to have a feeling of consequences and not the red green or blue choice offered in Mass Effect 3.

Soleya · July 2018

Valerien wrote: »

And yet nothing changes, I am still that nameless, faceless, personality-less do gooder who for 332 gold and some green piece of junk will slay that army of whatever.

The irony is that you get 664 gold (twice as much) for doing crafting writs, than you do for saving the world.

Sylvermynx · July 2018

It's a funny thing. I love my SPMR games in the TES world. But eventually after years of them, I decided it was time to mess with an MMO again (after 8 years in WoW - ending in 2013, and 3 in RIFT - which ended in 2016).

The draw for me is that nothing is static - things change all the time (well, more or less - more than SPMR games, less than RL of course!) Anyway, I enjoy the movement and change for a while - and then I want to get back to a plain ol' SPMR game, where people don't get in my face over "join this, do that". Eh, I'm NOT into social gaming.... Sorry.... I play MMOs occasionally just to enjoy the "living" feel - I don't want to join a guild or group to do content. About the grouping, it's that my lag means it's a downer for everyone else, so really I just do what I can solo. About the guild stuff, it's that people just TALK too damn much....