Tonturri wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

DemonDruaga wrote: »

Just let me crit them shields

Shields don't crit and they can't be critted in return. Personally this seems like balanced at first but it isn't , when you add on the fact that they are also immune to status effects, which gives shield stackers additional tankyness. Against people who don't stack shields it is not an issue,

So the root of this problem in the end is still, magsorcs. Not to blame them, its just the way it is. But still very dumb mechanic in the end.

Why aren't posters asking for status effects to work against shields? I don't think I've ever seen a thread actually mentioning that...it feels like there are a few things 'off' about shields - status effects and the magicka return from Harness - but people constantly pop up with suggestions to make massive, sweeping changes - like a stacking cost increase, allowing you to crit against shields but not allowing shields to crit, and so on.

Am bamboozle.

I simply do not care , or at least not enough to argue with all the magsorcs in the forum. I'm simply getting bored to death with magsorcs that can turtle up 1v1s for infinity.

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

DemonDruaga wrote: »

Just let me crit them shields

Shields don't crit and they can't be critted in return. Personally this seems like balanced at first but it isn't , when you add on the fact that they are also immune to status effects, which gives shield stackers additional tankyness. Against people who don't stack shields it is not an issue,

So the root of this problem in the end is still, magsorcs. Not to blame them, its just the way it is. But still very dumb mechanic in the end.

Status effects play such a small role in PvP, it's negligible. Only shock and disease have an impact, and both are irrelevant in a magicka fight.

Now, if we apply standard rules to shields, you'll be looking at:
- 70% more shield strength 50% of the time thanks to crit
- the need for penetration thanks to resistances
- shield builds upping the amount of crit resist, making HP more protected

And maybe, if we go all the way to make shields equal to armor and therefore HP:
- Pirate Skeleton and such working on shields again
- Major Mending and Vitality for shields
- Shields being able to receive healing from allies

You don't want this, I assure you.

I like how you instantly go full ''Don't touch muh sorc'' mode(which is done a lot in these forums anyways), without even mentioning defiles, maim, concussion, as well as getting into how strong crits hit people for. And shields being able to ''receive healing''? What? What does that even has to do with status effects again? I'm simply saying there is not a single logical reason for shields to block status effects.

The big part was about making shields crittable.

As for your status effects, only mag builds use shock glyphs, so equal playing field among them. Stamina could use disease enchants, but Defile doesn't affect shields, anyway. It's such a small topic here, that it's just wasted time discussing it.

Stamina builds also dodge a lot, which evades status effects and every other debuff. Could look into that, as well, how'd you like that?

Actually no, I used shock glyphs quite a lot on my stamina Dk and stamina sorc. The concussion proc is ridicilously strong. And even If I don't, its still not an even playing field really. The newly buffed combustion does not proc on shields for example, because of this mechanic.

And dodge is quite logical since you literally evade the attack, do you realize how bad your argument sounds right now?

You are literally trying to kind of threaten me with ''Shut up or I will turn this into a buff sorc threat'', Or maybe that is just how I feel about it, but seriously, I want you to tell me a logical reason as to why shields should stop status effects. That is all I ask.

Edit: And yes I realize this is probably a very minimal issue, only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to my issues with PvP, but it still is an issue, and I believe I have solid reasoning.

Bergzorn wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

DemonDruaga wrote: »

Just let me crit them shields

Shields don't crit and they can't be critted in return. Personally this seems like balanced at first but it isn't , when you add on the fact that they are also immune to status effects, which gives shield stackers additional tankyness. Against people who don't stack shields it is not an issue,

So the root of this problem in the end is still, magsorcs. Not to blame them, its just the way it is. But still very dumb mechanic in the end.

Status effects play such a small role in PvP, it's negligible. Only shock and disease have an impact, and both are irrelevant in a magicka fight.

Now, if we apply standard rules to shields, you'll be looking at:
- 70% more shield strength 50% of the time thanks to crit
- the need for penetration thanks to resistances
- shield builds upping the amount of crit resist, making HP more protected

And maybe, if we go all the way to make shields equal to armor and therefore HP:
- Pirate Skeleton and such working on shields again
- Major Mending and Vitality for shields
- Shields being able to receive healing from allies

You don't want this, I assure you.

I like how you instantly go full ''Don't touch muh sorc'' mode(which is done a lot in these forums anyways), without even mentioning defiles, maim, concussion, as well as getting into how strong crits hit people for. And shields being able to ''receive healing''? What? What does that even has to do with status effects again? I'm simply saying there is not a single logical reason for shields to block status effects.

The big part was about making shields crittable.

As for your status effects, only mag builds use shock glyphs, so equal playing field among them. Stamina could use disease enchants, but Defile doesn't affect shields, anyway. It's such a small topic here, that it's just wasted time discussing it.

Stamina builds also dodge a lot, which evades status effects and every other debuff. Could look into that, as well, how'd you like that?

I think we need to investigate this immediately. I hear you can still dodge light attacks!

Don't play it down, the amount of damage one can roll-dodge especially in vX situations is insane. It does not make invincible and has to be paired with other defensive mechanisms. The same should hold for damage shields, but shield stacking is still too effective for most magsorcs, and alternatives like HOTs are lacking on this class.

You say that and yet whenever I dodge roll it's a waste of time because I end up just getting blown up.

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

DemonDruaga wrote: »

Just let me crit them shields

Shields don't crit and they can't be critted in return. Personally this seems like balanced at first but it isn't , when you add on the fact that they are also immune to status effects, which gives shield stackers additional tankyness. Against people who don't stack shields it is not an issue,

So the root of this problem in the end is still, magsorcs. Not to blame them, its just the way it is. But still very dumb mechanic in the end.

Status effects play such a small role in PvP, it's negligible. Only shock and disease have an impact, and both are irrelevant in a magicka fight.

Now, if we apply standard rules to shields, you'll be looking at:
- 70% more shield strength 50% of the time thanks to crit
- the need for penetration thanks to resistances
- shield builds upping the amount of crit resist, making HP more protected

And maybe, if we go all the way to make shields equal to armor and therefore HP:
- Pirate Skeleton and such working on shields again
- Major Mending and Vitality for shields
- Shields being able to receive healing from allies

You don't want this, I assure you.

I like how you instantly go full ''Don't touch muh sorc'' mode(which is done a lot in these forums anyways), without even mentioning defiles, maim, concussion, as well as getting into how strong crits hit people for. And shields being able to ''receive healing''? What? What does that even has to do with status effects again? I'm simply saying there is not a single logical reason for shields to block status effects.

The big part was about making shields crittable.

As for your status effects, only mag builds use shock glyphs, so equal playing field among them. Stamina could use disease enchants, but Defile doesn't affect shields, anyway. It's such a small topic here, that it's just wasted time discussing it.

Stamina builds also dodge a lot, which evades status effects and every other debuff. Could look into that, as well, how'd you like that?

Actually no, I used shock glyphs quite a lot on my stamina Dk and stamina sorc. The concussion proc is ridicilously strong. And even If I don't, its still not an even playing field really. The newly buffed combustion does not proc on shields for example, because of this mechanic.

And dodge is quite logical since you literally evade the attack, do you realize how bad your argument sounds right now?

You are literally trying to kind of threaten me with ''Shut up or I will turn this into a buff sorc threat'', Or maybe that is just how I feel about it, but seriously, I want you to tell me a logical reason as to why shields should stop status effects. That is all I ask.

Edit: And yes I realize this is probably a very minimal issue, only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to my issues with PvP, but it still is an issue, and I believe I have solid reasoning.

You're just paranoid, you know that?
Following your logic, shields keep the caster from being hit by stuff, just like dodge. Therefore, not even debuffs should apply, if we were to be consistent here.

OK, all dots pre-applied now hit the target through shields

The reason it stops status effects is due to how the game calculates shields.

The damage you deal is amped by your own amps, (and % target debuffs like for executes, vampires, vulnerability etc) then converted to "shield X". be it harness or hardened and then takes it away from the shields remaining health. This amps damage for lack of resistances, and then reduces the crit modifier to 0 for however large the shield is, if damage overflows the shield then the resistances and normal crit modifier applies.

You don't deal that damage type you use to the targets, but "shield X" damage type, so no status effects are passed on.