A New Service Token for the Crown Store
Vercingetorix
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Yes, a topic that's been hashed over a bunch of times yet continues to not be addressed by ZoS, so here's my crack at it:
Class Change Token
5000 Crowns
When used, the player will choose one of the other classes to apply to their character and that character will have that new class' skill lines applied in place of the original class' lines.
- Any Skill Points invested in the original class' skill lines will be refunded.
- The newly selected class skill lines will ALWAYS begin at 1.
- Upon successful completion of the class change, the player's account is locked out from using another class change token for 90 days.
Class Change Token
5000 Crowns
When used, the player will choose one of the other classes to apply to their character and that character will have that new class' skill lines applied in place of the original class' lines.
- Any Skill Points invested in the original class' skill lines will be refunded.
- The newly selected class skill lines will ALWAYS begin at 1.
- Upon successful completion of the class change, the player's account is locked out from using another class change token for 90 days.
FAQ:
1. What if the character has previously leveled up a class and it would be reverting back to it with this token?
A: It doesn't matter - the player will have to re-level the skill lines each time the class is changed.
2. What about using more than one token on different characters on my account?
A: Nope, your ACCOUNT can use 1 class change token every 90 days - even if you delete the character that previously used a class change token.
3. Would this cause unfairness in PvP?
A: No, because most players who care about "chasing the meta" will have multiple characters to change to when the patch seems "favorable" to a particular character. This class change token is mostly aimed at players with older characters that have many achievements tied to them and their owners wish to carry this progress with them on a different class for gameplay or RP reasons.
4. Can't you just make another character instead?
A: Can you make up over 20k+ achievement points and nearly 300+ skill points overnight? Yeah, I didn't think so. Lots of players want to continue their journey in ESO without slogging through older content or outdated grinds to make up progress they've already attained. Imagine if you wanted to go back for a second Master's Degree but the university said you had to get another duplicate Bachelor's Degree first - it's the same principle.
5. Won't this just invalidate needing to make other characters?
A: Not really as the benefits of having multiple characters, such as additional writ completions or swapping classes on the fly, are still worthwhile perks of managing many characters. Players who would rather consolidate their efforts on one character (and forego the benefits of additional characters) will not be at any advantage whatsoever against players who continue to use many characters. The progress of an individual player has no bearing on the efforts of another player and no player has a right to dictate how another player must play their own game. The token is an OPTIONAL service that a certain subset of the player base will utilize. The costs and restrictions of using it balance out the convenience it offers, just like any other service or item offered through the Crown Store.
“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
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themaddaedra✭✭✭✭✭
✭I would definitely pay 5000 crowns for this. Actually i'd still be ok if cooldown was 180 days instead of 90.
Edit: Inb4 someone with classical restricted Sherlock ideas such as "just level a new one" pops up.Edited by themaddaedra on July 7, 2018 8:20PMPC|EU3 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The cost of the token itself would need to take into consideration costs of leveling up a mount and bag space since players willing to spend will spend well on those items.
In other words, 5k may be chump change in comparison to what Zos would and should actually charge.
Beyond that there could be other reasons Zos does not want to offer such a change.1 -
Vercingetorix✭✭✭✭✭
✭Hayden_Knight wrote: »omg think of all the sorcs that would be roaming about
Think of all the players locked out of changing their class for 90 days if ZoS chooses to "adjust" the [insert class here]. Chasing the meta with this token's cost and restrictions would be foolish at best. That's why the cost is prohibitive and the cooldown exists.Edited by Vercingetorix on July 7, 2018 8:24PM“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”3 -
themaddaedra✭✭✭✭✭
✭The cost of the token itself would need to take into consideration costs of leveling up a mount and bag space since players willing to spend will spend well on those items.
In other words, 5k may be chump change in comparison to what Zos would and should actually charge.
Beyond that there could be other reasons Zos does not want to offer such a change.
Your mount and inventory space could just stay unchanged? Or did i take it wrong?PC|EU1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭themaddaedra wrote: »The cost of the token itself would need to take into consideration costs of leveling up a mount and bag space since players willing to spend will spend well on those items.
In other words, 5k may be chump change in comparison to what Zos would and should actually charge.
Beyond that there could be other reasons Zos does not want to offer such a change.
Your mount and inventory space could just stay unchanged? Or did i take it wrong?
You are thinking backwards of what I said. Add the cost of upgrading a mount and bag space via crown store and one might start getting a glimpse of what Zos would sell it for.
The current house (boat) for sale in Summerset could look like a sweet deal in comparison. Might even be cheaper to level up a new character.
That alone would be reason for Zos to not add it. The worthy price would bring animosity and calls for P2W even though it would not be.
Not suggesting I would or would not want this added. Just bringing up a perspective as to why it might not be what we think it will be. 5k is certainly a low ball offer.
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Vercingetorix✭✭✭✭✭
✭themaddaedra wrote: »The cost of the token itself would need to take into consideration costs of leveling up a mount and bag space since players willing to spend will spend well on those items.
In other words, 5k may be chump change in comparison to what Zos would and should actually charge.
Beyond that there could be other reasons Zos does not want to offer such a change.
Your mount and inventory space could just stay unchanged? Or did i take it wrong?
Mount ant inventory upgrades for the character are left alone and remain as they are. Only the class skill lines are being altered. I'd argue ZoS gets most of its sales from crown crates and housing stuff nowadays since that's what they tend to focus on.“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Vercingetorix wrote: »themaddaedra wrote: »The cost of the token itself would need to take into consideration costs of leveling up a mount and bag space since players willing to spend will spend well on those items.
In other words, 5k may be chump change in comparison to what Zos would and should actually charge.
Beyond that there could be other reasons Zos does not want to offer such a change.
Your mount and inventory space could just stay unchanged? Or did i take it wrong?
Mount ant inventory upgrades for the character are left alone and remain as they are. Only the class skill lines are being altered. I'd argue ZoS gets most of its sales from crown crates and housing stuff nowadays since that's what they tend to focus on.
He was replying in context of my first post in this thread as to why the cost would likely be much more than 5k if it was ever added.0 -
redspecter23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm all for a class change token, but I still wonder why the restrictive lockout timer? 90 days for your account feels unnecessary for any sort of game balance reason, mainly due to the reasons you've described. You could just have another toon of that class already. Class changing one toon doesn't add any sort of advantage. It also slows down sales, which ZOS would likely be looking to avoid if at all possible.
I feel that a lockout per character could accomplish whatever you're trying to do here, without impacting sales.0 -
Vercingetorix✭✭✭✭✭
✭Vercingetorix wrote: »themaddaedra wrote: »The cost of the token itself would need to take into consideration costs of leveling up a mount and bag space since players willing to spend will spend well on those items.
In other words, 5k may be chump change in comparison to what Zos would and should actually charge.
Beyond that there could be other reasons Zos does not want to offer such a change.
Your mount and inventory space could just stay unchanged? Or did i take it wrong?
Mount ant inventory upgrades for the character are left alone and remain as they are. Only the class skill lines are being altered. I'd argue ZoS gets most of its sales from crown crates and housing stuff nowadays since that's what they tend to focus on.
He was replying in context of my first post in this thread as to why the cost would likely be much more than 5k if it was ever added.
I see. The crown cost of the token in my post is frankly an eyeballed figure and the actual cost would rest on ZoS to figure out. The main focus of my post was to go over the functionality and restrictions it would have. I actually agree with you that the true cost of the token would likely end up being much higher.“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”0 -
themaddaedra✭✭✭✭✭
✭themaddaedra wrote: »The cost of the token itself would need to take into consideration costs of leveling up a mount and bag space since players willing to spend will spend well on those items.
In other words, 5k may be chump change in comparison to what Zos would and should actually charge.
Beyond that there could be other reasons Zos does not want to offer such a change.
Your mount and inventory space could just stay unchanged? Or did i take it wrong?
You are thinking backwards of what I said. Add the cost of upgrading a mount and bag space via crown store and one might start getting a glimpse of what Zos would sell it for.
The current house (boat) for sale in Summerset could look like a sweet deal in comparison. Might even be cheaper to level up a new character.
That alone would be reason for Zos to not add it. The worthy price would bring animosity and calls for P2W even though it would not be.
Not suggesting I would or would not want this added. Just bringing up a perspective as to why it might not be what we think it will be. 5k is certainly a low ball offer.
Well looks like i understood correctly. Why would i add any mount/bag space costs if i already levelled them on the character i want to class change? Or more likely, why would i add these costs if my mount and bag upgrades would stay unchanged after changing class?
Edit: Race change example. You don't get charged for other very unnecessary crown store upgrades when you change your race.Edited by themaddaedra on July 7, 2018 8:44PMPC|EU0 -
Vercingetorix✭✭✭✭✭
✭redspecter23 wrote: »I'm all for a class change token, but I still wonder why the restrictive lockout timer? 90 days for your account feels unnecessary for any sort of game balance reason, mainly due to the reasons you've described. You could just have another toon of that class already. Class changing one toon doesn't add any sort of advantage. It also slows down sales, which ZOS would likely be looking to avoid if at all possible.
I feel that a lockout per character could accomplish whatever you're trying to do here, without impacting sales.
While the lockout may appear to slow down sales, consider the fact that housing is technically a one-time sale with a rather high cost. This type of crown store item despite its one-time nature is still profitable for ZoS. While players may be locked out for a short while, the availability to purchase a class change token again would eventually happen, unlike houses. So, in a way, this type of service token (maybe with a higher crown cost) would be more profitable than houses.Edited by Vercingetorix on July 7, 2018 8:42PM“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”0 -
redspecter23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Vercingetorix wrote: »redspecter23 wrote: »I'm all for a class change token, but I still wonder why the restrictive lockout timer? 90 days for your account feels unnecessary for any sort of game balance reason, mainly due to the reasons you've described. You could just have another toon of that class already. Class changing one toon doesn't add any sort of advantage. It also slows down sales, which ZOS would likely be looking to avoid if at all possible.
I feel that a lockout per character could accomplish whatever you're trying to do here, without impacting sales.
While the lockout may appear to slow down sales, consider the fact that housing is technically a one-time sale with a rather high cost. This type of crown store item despite its one-time nature is still profitable for ZoS. While players may be locked out for a short while, the availability to purchase a class change token again would eventually happen, unlike houses. So, in a way, this type of service token (maybe with a higher crown cost) would be more profitable than houses.
Fair enough, but explain the need for the cooldown to begin with. A cooldown should only exist if there would be an issue when a cooldown does not exist. Dailies have a cooldown to prevent overfarming. Boss loot has a cooldown to prevent repeated lootings, etc. If someone chooses to class change 18 times in one day (and pay 90k crowns) does it break the balance of the game in any way? If no game balance is broken, what does the cooldown accomplish?Edited by redspecter23 on July 7, 2018 8:46PM0 -
Vercingetorix✭✭✭✭✭
✭redspecter23 wrote: »Vercingetorix wrote: »redspecter23 wrote: »I'm all for a class change token, but I still wonder why the restrictive lockout timer? 90 days for your account feels unnecessary for any sort of game balance reason, mainly due to the reasons you've described. You could just have another toon of that class already. Class changing one toon doesn't add any sort of advantage. It also slows down sales, which ZOS would likely be looking to avoid if at all possible.
I feel that a lockout per character could accomplish whatever you're trying to do here, without impacting sales.
While the lockout may appear to slow down sales, consider the fact that housing is technically a one-time sale with a rather high cost. This type of crown store item despite its one-time nature is still profitable for ZoS. While players may be locked out for a short while, the availability to purchase a class change token again would eventually happen, unlike houses. So, in a way, this type of service token (maybe with a higher crown cost) would be more profitable than houses.
Fair enough, but explain the need for the cooldown to begin with. A cooldown should only exist if there would be an issue when a cooldown does not exist. If someone chooses to class change 18 times in one day (and pay 90k crowns) does it break the balance of the game in any way? If no game balance is broken, what does the cooldown accomplish?
The cooldown was a measure I considered from a PvP perspective. Having half the player base swap classes on a whim due to patch notes isn't something most players would be willing to tolerate. While I agree that each player has a right to spend their money as they see fit, consider a Leaderboards situation if a nerf/change happens mid-campaign from a patch. The cooldown puts a hindrance on "meta-chasers" by forcing players to think about whether they want to truly swap classes. At that point, a player may simply opt for a second character to simply have the freedom to swap classes without penalty.
The token would more than likely be popular with folks with old characters that have a ton of achievements and progress on them - these are the same players who primarily play with a single character. In other words, most players who would use this token wouldn't be meta-chasers. Meta-chasers simply make a new character instead because achievements aren't a priority to them.“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”0 -
Acrolas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Vercingetorix wrote: »Yes, a topic that's been hashed over a bunch of times yet continues to not be addressed by ZoS
I'm pretty sure a component of the Class Representative program will be to ensure that each class can sufficiently fulfill each group role. Then the race change token would just be a minor but ultimately optional adjustment of dominant stats.
Meta chasers are going to have their outrage threads regardless of whether the token exists or how much it costs. And so long as people keep expressing class change as a need, ZOS is going to internally consider how to correct the need as opposed to entertaining the want. Hence the resistance.signing off0 -
Vercingetorix✭✭✭✭✭
✭Vercingetorix wrote: »Yes, a topic that's been hashed over a bunch of times yet continues to not be addressed by ZoS
I'm pretty sure a component of the Class Representative program will be to ensure that each class can sufficiently fulfill each group role. Then the race change token would just be a minor but ultimately optional adjustment of dominant stats.
Meta chasers are going to have their outrage threads regardless of whether the token exists or how much it costs. And so long as people keep expressing class change as a need, ZOS is going to internally consider how to correct the need as opposed to entertaining the want. Hence the resistance.
Some folks will still want to change their class regardless of whatever changes ZoS makes to the classes. The folks who are wanting this token are primarily the same folks who choose classes based on decisions from 2014 and/or RP reasons. This type of thread will continue to perpetuate until ZoS gives the player base (customer) what it wants. That's how businesses work - there's a demand and ZoS is losing out on profits each day they choose to refuse supply customers with their desired product.“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”0 -
Acrolas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Vercingetorix wrote: »That's how businesses work - there's a demand and ZoS is losing out on profits each day they choose to refuse supply customers with their desired product.
You cannot have negative earnings on a product you never intend to carry. There's no value applied to it. It does not exist.
But it's more than a product; as a digital item this also falls under asset management. If ZOS does not want classes changed after character creation, that's completely within their right as the owner of said assets.
You do not own the characters. ZOS does.
signing off0 -
ArvenAldmeri✭✭✭✭✭I wouldnt buy this. Reason why: It takes freaking forever to level up skill lines after you are lv50. Its painfully slow. With skill lines lv50, yes, sure.Magicka sorcerer from start until the end. Always. Through the good times and the bad, even now when its probably saddest PvE dps it has ever been.
Even as an owner of one radiant apex mounts I am against radiant apex mounts and anything thats not obtainable by direct purchase.0 -
I only have one char since day one. A nightblade which was already stamblade, magblade, tank and healer. Also this char was already a bosmer, an altmer, an argonian, a nord and a khajiit. I hate alts because of several things. Everywhere quest icons, the horse training, undaunted, magesguild and psijic skill trees, crafting, all the time to level these things - just no. I only want one perfect char and a tamriel without open quests.
So I would really pay up to 10.000 crowns for this token because I had chosen a warden if this class would have existed at release. This token is besides an argonian story dlc the number one of my wishlist.
I would say a cooldown of about 180 or even 360 days would also be fine.Edited by EdgarMoose on July 8, 2018 7:35AM2 -
coolkhajit✭✭I think this would be fair even if they bumped the cooldown up to more than 90 days. The fact of the matter is that classes change through patches and on a game like this where there’s is a much going on in the story it isn’t enjoyable to do all of the quests over again so rerolling is annoying. This way if someone were unhappy with their class changes they could switch classes without having to redo the same things they already did and would probably help with player retention in the these situations.1
