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Help clarify Alcast's MagSorc "Mystic" rotation

  • Dantaria
    Dantaria
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Okay, okay. I'm not professional player, but I main sorc, I until now mained non-pet sorc, so... Yeah. I would truly like to clarify some things about Alcast and non-pet sorc in general now and... Screw you, ZoS. Just screw you.

    When it comes to Alcast you have to understand - his builds are for top-notch raid teams. With all due respect to him, he reeeeeally gets it backwards now. You need good DPS to have a chance for a spot in top-notch team. You do not just appear in top-notch where his builds will shine.

    With this in mind - let's get started.

    1) Penetration.
    Forget Apprentice. Really - just instantly forget Apprentice. Apprentice works only in raid with Alcosh.

    Let's count together.

    Major Breach = ~5100
    Infused Crucher = ~2100
    =7200

    18200 - 7200 = ~11k

    You need ~11k penetration on your own. A little less really, but... Let's say 11k.

    If Lover: 4880 (Light Armor) + 100 + ~4100 = ~9k

    2k from CP and you're golden.

    Let's now take Apprentice:
    4880 (Light Armor) + 100 and... that's freaking it.

    Like... Excuuuuuuuse me. You have 5k on your own. And then what? 100 into Spell Erosion? What?

    However: 4880 + 100 + ~3000 (Alcosh) + 3k from CP (~40 in Spell Erosion) = ~11k

    No way math fits without Alcosh. Just... no way.

    If your raid has Alcosh, if your raid has Power of the Light or other interesting stuff people now use... Then and only then you can use Apprentice.

    The majority of raid teams do not have Alcosh, dungeon tank does not have Alcosh, there is no Alcosh in vMA...

    And your own penetration is laughable. Truly laughable. Hence - low numbers on skeleton.

    Forget Apprentice. If/when you end up in super raid team which penetrates bosses like crazy (pun intended :D) - yep, recall it again and use it. But until then - forget apprentice.

    2) This rotation isn't sustainable.
    Magsorc simply do not sustain without HA in Morrowind realities.

    I had a non-pet build for Morrowind: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/355291/easy-and-reliable-non-pet-magsorc-build-pve

    On ~540CP I managed honest 30k on my own.

    MainSorc.png

    I passed vHoF in it. Passed vMoL in it. I didn't have to scream "HEALER ORBS ORBS". I did needed them, but rarely. It was honest sustainable build - I brought down 6kk skeleton with only self-casted Ele Drain without issues. And I had self-buffed 30k in Julianos and without vMA staff.

    Now? Forget it. It's 25k guys. 5k - puff. Gone with HotR.

    All possible combinations: 5 July + 5 Netch (which I finally got, but... AHAHAHA), 5 Netch + IA + Ilambris, 5 July + MD + Ilambris... Nope.

    Honest self-sustainable non-pet sorc does *** DPS in HoTR.

    The only way for you to get nice numbers is to end up in top-end raid team. But while you will have nice numbers, everyone else will get divine numbers.

    Petsorc outdamage non-petsorc ridiculously in HotR.

    I hate pets. God the witness, I do. This fugly and buggy scamp can rot in Cold Harbor forever and ever more, but... There is no choice now. Because on non-pet you just can't do good damage and have sustain in the same time.

    Thanks, ZoS. Thanks for the "diversity".
    English isn't my native, apologies for any mistakes.
  • Betsararie
    Betsararie
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Dantaria wrote: »
    Okay, okay. I'm not professional player, but I main sorc, I until now mained non-pet sorc, so... Yeah. I would truly like to clarify some things about Alcast and non-pet sorc in general now and... Screw you, ZoS. Just screw you.

    When it comes to Alcast you have to understand - his builds are for top-notch raid teams. With all due respect to him, he reeeeeally gets it backwards now. You need good DPS to have a chance for a spot in top-notch team. You do not just appear in top-notch where his builds will shine.

    With this in mind - let's get started.

    1) Penetration.
    Forget Apprentice. Really - just instantly forget Apprentice. Apprentice works only in raid with Alcosh.

    Let's count together.

    Major Breach = ~5100
    Infused Crucher = ~2100
    =7200

    18200 - 7200 = ~11k

    You need ~11k penetration on your own. A little less really, but... Let's say 11k.

    If Lover: 4880 (Light Armor) + 100 + ~4100 = ~9k

    2k from CP and you're golden.

    Let's now take Apprentice:
    4880 (Light Armor) + 100 and... that's freaking it.

    Like... Excuuuuuuuse me. You have 5k on your own. And then what? 100 into Spell Erosion? What?

    However: 4880 + 100 + ~3000 (Alcosh) + 3k from CP (~40 in Spell Erosion) = ~11k

    No way math fits without Alcosh. Just... no way.

    If your raid has Alcosh, if your raid has Power of the Light or other interesting stuff people now use... Then and only then you can use Apprentice.

    The majority of raid teams do not have Alcosh, dungeon tank does not have Alcosh, there is no Alcosh in vMA...

    And your own penetration is laughable. Truly laughable. Hence - low numbers on skeleton.

    Forget Apprentice. If/when you end up in super raid team which penetrates bosses like crazy (pun intended :D) - yep, recall it again and use it. But until then - forget apprentice.

    2) This rotation isn't sustainable.
    Magsorc simply do not sustain without HA in Morrowind realities.

    I had a non-pet build for Morrowind: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/355291/easy-and-reliable-non-pet-magsorc-build-pve

    On ~540CP I managed honest 30k on my own.

    MainSorc.png

    I passed vHoF in it. Passed vMoL in it. I didn't have to scream "HEALER ORBS ORBS". I did needed them, but rarely. It was honest sustainable build - I brought down 6kk skeleton with only self-casted Ele Drain without issues. And I had self-buffed 30k in Julianos and without vMA staff.

    Now? Forget it. It's 25k guys. 5k - puff. Gone with HotR.

    All possible combinations: 5 July + 5 Netch (which I finally got, but... AHAHAHA), 5 Netch + IA + Ilambris, 5 July + MD + Ilambris... Nope.

    Honest self-sustainable non-pet sorc does *** DPS in HoTR.

    The only way for you to get nice numbers is to end up in top-end raid team. But while you will have nice numbers, everyone else will get divine numbers.

    Petsorc outdamage non-petsorc ridiculously in HotR.

    I hate pets. God the witness, I do. This fugly and buggy scamp can rot in Cold Harbor forever and ever more, but... There is no choice now. Because on non-pet you just can't do good damage and have sustain in the same time.

    Thanks, ZoS. Thanks for the "diversity".

    Really insightful post, thanks.


    Edited by Betsararie on August 31, 2017 10:24PM
  • s7732425ub17_ESO
    s7732425ub17_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    You honestly cannot sustain force pulse + crystal frag rotations anymore. Replace with heavy attacks. Your DPS will be about the same, and you will have infinite magicka. And you free up spots on your bar (so you can add a pet!). Unfortunately, it's reality.
  • theacefes
    theacefes
    ✭✭✭
    You honestly cannot sustain force pulse + crystal frag rotations anymore. Replace with heavy attacks. Your DPS will be about the same, and you will have infinite magicka. And you free up spots on your bar (so you can add a pet!). Unfortunately, it's reality.

    Question for you @s7732425ub17_ESO - are you saying to replace force pulse in Alcast's suggested rotation with HA? So it will be HA > LA > HA > LA and so on? Sorry if I'm way off! I main a DK and I'm still learning Sorc.
  • s7732425ub17_ESO
    s7732425ub17_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    theacefes wrote: »
    You honestly cannot sustain force pulse + crystal frag rotations anymore. Replace with heavy attacks. Your DPS will be about the same, and you will have infinite magicka. And you free up spots on your bar (so you can add a pet!). Unfortunately, it's reality.

    Question for you @s7732425ub17_ESO - are you saying to replace force pulse in Alcast's suggested rotation with HA? So it will be HA > LA > HA > LA and so on? Sorry if I'm way off! I main a DK and I'm still learning Sorc.

    Na, I'm saying you go completely to a pet build rotation.

    If you reallllly want to stay non-pet build, then every other rotation or every 3rd you replace force pulse and crystal frags with heavy attacks until it's time to replace your dots. HA > HA > HA > dots.
  • Betsararie
    Betsararie
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    You honestly cannot sustain force pulse + crystal frag rotations anymore. Replace with heavy attacks. Your DPS will be about the same, and you will have infinite magicka. And you free up spots on your bar (so you can add a pet!). Unfortunately, it's reality.

    Yes, this is true. Force pulse no longer viable in PvE but under very specific circumstances.

    I wanted to get rid of the pet because frankly, it glitches out terribly and constantly disappears etc, plus it can die and recasting it takes a lot of time.

    You simply cannot do without it. Especially with the point that sorc is at now, it helps so much with aoe damage we can't afford to lose it.

    I'm now going to switch gears and roll Alcast's new pet setup with 5 Julianos 5 necro 1 iceheart. This should be more than sufficient for farming vet dungeons which will be its main use. I only jump into vet trials runs occasionally if a guildie or friend is specifically looking for a dps, or at least that's what I had done in the past when sorc was performing well. Still undecided on the Mundus. The lover recommended above was an interesting recommendation. Is this going to be the way to go in PvE?
    Edited by Betsararie on August 31, 2017 11:19PM
  • theacefes
    theacefes
    ✭✭✭
    theacefes wrote: »
    You honestly cannot sustain force pulse + crystal frag rotations anymore. Replace with heavy attacks. Your DPS will be about the same, and you will have infinite magicka. And you free up spots on your bar (so you can add a pet!). Unfortunately, it's reality.

    Question for you @s7732425ub17_ESO - are you saying to replace force pulse in Alcast's suggested rotation with HA? So it will be HA > LA > HA > LA and so on? Sorry if I'm way off! I main a DK and I'm still learning Sorc.

    Na, I'm saying you go completely to a pet build rotation.

    If you reallllly want to stay non-pet build, then every other rotation or every 3rd you replace force pulse and crystal frags with heavy attacks until it's time to replace your dots. HA > HA > HA > dots.

    Got it. Sounds like I would be better with a pet build - I don't have enough of an opinion either way, I just want to play the build well! Thank you :)
  • paulychan
    paulychan
    ✭✭✭✭
    I rolled the akcast non pet. In the end, to get dps over 22k, I went with QA and IA with Illambris. Outperformed many other sets. I had to rely on a dynamic rotation that involves proc of the mage guild empower, force pulse/frags yada yada.

    I went back to pet and my dps is easily 8k more with a simpler rotation.
    Non pet is my preference, I just couldn’t get the dps high enough so I’m workonf on a mag blade. Pets are unreliable and buggy for me for some reason. Little dude just exits stage left sometimes and Aggros stuff idrather have hit the tank.
    I’d still roll the mystic type build for vma.
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