On PC/NA, I saw one in 2014 and none since then.

they are there just no visable, even other mmo's have taken to hidding them

I have never, ever seen a gamemaster with a [Z] in this game since early access.

I remember when i played Age of Conan, there was an issue about a dropped item. We called the game master and suddenly a bright light and a huge man appeared from the skies. He helped us with the item issue. I was so impressed how epic a gamemaster could be.
Even in dead games like Vanguard SOH, gamemasters where funny, although one time one turned my wife into a chicken while she was doing a dungeon. Because she died due to being a chicken he rezzed her and gave her a boat and some gold and returned all lost XP.
Also in vanguard my boat was bugged. As soon as i restored it i spawned another boat. A GM helped me, but afer he spawned around 500 boats accidently near Ahgram he had to reset the zone the boats where in. Funny times

The days of someone from the company needing to be logged in on a visible character to spot people breaking the TOS and act on it are long gone. Honestly I'd be concerned if ZOS were still using that method when there are much more efficient ways to monitor player activity behind the scenes.

You could ague that it would act as a deterrent, but if these are truly bots (as in it's an automated process "playing" the game with human input only needed to start and stop it) then that wouldn't achieve anything because there would be no one there to be deterred.

As for why they don't get banned after people report them, I'm not sure. My guess is it's a combination of not as many people report them as you might expect - either because they can't be bothered or because they genuinely don't realise that complaining in zone chat isn't a report - and ZOS banning botters in waves. I know other games will do that, they monitor reports and player activity for a few months and when they decide they've identified as many of 1 type of bot as they can they ban them all in one go, so if any are left they can't figure out how the others were caught and modify their bots to avoid it.

Danikat wrote: »

You could ague that it would act as a deterrent, but if these are truly bots (as in it's an automated process "playing" the game with human input only needed to start and stop it) then that wouldn't achieve anything because there would be no one there to be deterred.

But it would achieve something as those accounts being used as bots, are owned by someone. So whether they are selling gold or using the gold themselves to bid on guild traders or whatever, banning those bots will at least for a while stop it from happening. They could of course always buy new accounts and setup again, but we haven't stopped sending criminals to prison even though they can just commit new crimes after they get out.

Let's widen this to all platforms: has anyone ever seen a game master?

Let's be honest, if you check the hate and talk in /zone chats you can easily see there is none around, since they often end up targeting etnics and sexual orientation and go on for an easy half an hour. IF they were there, people would probably calm down. Even more, if it were clearly visible i nthe /zone that player X has been silenced for 1 hour by Game Master Y.

It's a cost they are not willing to pay.

Infrapuna wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Shrug. ZOS does not use visible game masters in the game. I am sure ZOS employees are in the game, though. I even think there might be a couple doing "ToS Enforcement".

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

they are there just no visable, even other mmo's have taken to hidding them

Okay, if they are there, and are just hiding, how come none of them ever venture to gathering hot spots to ban a few bots eh?

That is the real question, and one that we can only speculate as to how ZOS might answer.

Personally, I chalk it up to a couple of things... Studio ambivalence, lack of employee resources, and dependence on player reports. I don't think they are really all that interested in chasing down bots. When some bot gets reported too much, they sigh, go check it out, and maybe delete it, or maybe just chalk it up to "kids being kids" and go back to whatever else they do all day. I figure that none of this actually happens in the game, and not with a visible GM character, if they do go into the game.

I figure that, until ZOS clarifies, the above meets all observable criteria for how they respond to bots.

Danikat wrote: »

As for why they don't get banned after people report them, I'm not sure. My guess is it's a combination of not as many people report them as you might expect - either because they can't be bothered or because they genuinely don't realise that complaining in zone chat isn't a report - and ZOS banning botters in waves. I know other games will do that, they monitor reports and player activity for a few months and when they decide they've identified as many of 1 type of bot as they can they ban them all in one go, so if any are left they can't figure out how the others were caught and modify their bots to avoid it.

While I know that there is a reporting criteria that they seem to have, mainly because Jessica said so, she also always seems to talk about gold sellers in the same breath. This has led me to suspect, along with in-game observations, that gold sellers get priority when it comes to ToS enforcement. Normal players who might be botting, or multiboxing, for personal gain, might be getting the "kids will be kids" response.

This is largely why I stopped reporting bots. I can spot them a mile away, but I don't sense that ZOS cares that much. On top of that, I don't want to be reporting someone who ZOS is not going to take action against. It is a waste of my time, it is a waste of their time, and it puts an "innocent" player under a microscope unnecessarily.



YES, I have seen a Gamemaster in the game on PC NA

Infrapuna wrote: »

Some could argue that this is good for never players as that keeps richer players from raising the price of said materials to profit, but it is still not the way the economy is supposed to function.

And it doesnt make much sense because farming and selling mats and daily rewards is one the easiest ways to farm gold for a casual/new player. Its less profitable that reselling stuff, sure, but its easy.
Golden gear, on the other hand, doesnt provide that much of an advantage, except for weapons. Purple is enough for pretty much anything, especially for a casual/new player who isnt really interested in pushing super high trial scores.
So I'd say it brings more harm than good even for new players.

Anyway, ZOS doesnt seem to care about bot issues. I always report those bot trains, but tbh I'm pretty sure that no one even checks those reports.

ZOS staff DO play this game, but they don't have active GM characters that they use very often. I have seen evidence of a ZOS staff member playing this game though, on Xbox EU as well, when a bugged fort was mentioned on voice chat, within our group, and it was fixed within a 5 minutes. There were two americans in our group at the time, and we now think one of them were ZOS staff.

lordrichter wrote: »

Infrapuna wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Shrug. ZOS does not use visible game masters in the game. I am sure ZOS employees are in the game, though. I even think there might be a couple doing "ToS Enforcement".

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

they are there just no visable, even other mmo's have taken to hidding them

Okay, if they are there, and are just hiding, how come none of them ever venture to gathering hot spots to ban a few bots eh?

That is the real question, and one that we can only speculate as to how ZOS might answer.

Personally, I chalk it up to a couple of things... Studio ambivalence, lack of employee resources, and dependence on player reports. I don't think they are really all that interested in chasing down bots. When some bot gets reported too much, they sigh, go check it out, and maybe delete it, or maybe just chalk it up to "kids being kids" and go back to whatever else they do all day. I figure that none of this actually happens in the game, and not with a visible GM character, if they do go into the game.

I figure that, until ZOS clarifies, the above meets all observable criteria for how they respond to bots.

Danikat wrote: »

As for why they don't get banned after people report them, I'm not sure. My guess is it's a combination of not as many people report them as you might expect - either because they can't be bothered or because they genuinely don't realise that complaining in zone chat isn't a report - and ZOS banning botters in waves. I know other games will do that, they monitor reports and player activity for a few months and when they decide they've identified as many of 1 type of bot as they can they ban them all in one go, so if any are left they can't figure out how the others were caught and modify their bots to avoid it.

While I know that there is a reporting criteria that they seem to have, mainly because Jessica said so, she also always seems to talk about gold sellers in the same breath. This has led me to suspect, along with in-game observations, that gold sellers get priority when it comes to ToS enforcement. Normal players who might be botting, or multiboxing, for personal gain, might be getting the "kids will be kids" response.

This is largely why I stopped reporting bots. I can spot them a mile away, but I don't sense that ZOS cares that much. On top of that, I don't want to be reporting someone who ZOS is not going to take action against. It is a waste of my time, it is a waste of their time, and it puts an "innocent" player under a microscope unnecessarily.

YES, I have seen a Gamemaster in the game on PC NA

Suspect that to, players running in circles killing mobs can be hard to spot as bots if group is small.
Remember one far east in Stonefall, I was questing and saw they run in circle killing the few enemies in the area.
I assumed they waited for dolmen, however they did not react to it so obvious bots.

Yes its one large groups, one in Grathwood who is an obvious bot train but looks like ordinary players because all levels and character types.

Juhasow wrote: »

Can we stop repeating that myth that bots are affecting economy and are main reason of crafting mats prices drops ? I am totally against bots but I am also against spreading misinformation.

Maybe bots don't impact the economy as much as they used to, even though its marginal they still affect the economy in someway.

Just look at this:


Bots are good and bad at the same time because it makes easier for new players to acquire golden mats but it also ruins the market by pushing down the price for people who rely on selling gold mats as main gold income.

Infrapuna wrote: »

Danikat wrote: »

You could ague that it would act as a deterrent, but if these are truly bots (as in it's an automated process "playing" the game with human input only needed to start and stop it) then that wouldn't achieve anything because there would be no one there to be deterred.

But it would achieve something as those accounts being used as bots, are owned by someone. So whether they are selling gold or using the gold themselves to bid on guild traders or whatever, banning those bots will at least for a while stop it from happening. They could of course always buy new accounts and setup again, but we haven't stopped sending criminals to prison even though they can just commit new crimes after they get out.

You need to have read the paragraph above that one as well instead of pulling one part of the post out of context.

What I said was:

Danikat wrote: »

The days of someone from the company needing to be logged in on a visible character to spot people breaking the TOS and act on it are long gone. Honestly I'd be concerned if ZOS were still using that method when there are much more efficient ways to monitor player activity behind the scenes.

You could ague that it would act as a deterrent, but if these are truly bots (as in it's an automated process "playing" the game with human input only needed to start and stop it) then that wouldn't achieve anything because there would be no one there to be deterred.

I was still talking about the same thing - I meant that having someone from ZOS getting paid to stand around in game wearing a GM tag might deter people from botting/farming there if they see it, but it wouldn't have any other benefits because they don't need to be visible in the zone to find and stop botters. (And that the might not see it because they will start the bot running then go and do something else instead of sitting there watching.)

The last GM left 34 month ago