A shout-out to the DEV's!!

Rogue_Ghost · July 2018

Sure, there are some minor issues going on at the moment. People are upset because the game they love to play is suddenly not operating at it's optimum level.

That sucks.

But, is that really a surprise? And, I don't mean that to suggest that it's the developers problem at all - I am simply stating the fact that ANY game has it's fair share of troubles from time to time. This is simply heightened exponentially by the added difficulty of having one HUGE game, operating on multiple platforms, releasing consistent upgrades, DLC, expansions, AND supporting millions of players across the world - all of whom expect the game to operate when they sit down and turn it on.

That's a tall order. Even for a team of experienced developers.

What's worse, is the ungratefulness people seem to display when things go - a little wonky. It's as if the world has crashed down around them! The DEV's know two things, no matter what. If they get it right, they are heroes. If something breaks, someone, somewhere - and likely someone who is WAY too involved in the game to begin with - will start demanding they all get fired, call for their heads on spikes outside of the building, and begin talking about cancelling their membership/demanding a refund.

Really? Exactly how much work have you put into this game? How many hours have you invested into developing this game? Not playing, but working on. Big difference.

I, for one, would rather thank the DEV's for their hard work, dedication, and overall outstanding service to a game that millions of people enjoy every single day.

Here are some stats: Perhaps the DEV's can chime in if they are not quite accurate, but it's the best I could find.

Zenimax Online Studios was formed in 2007. ESO was released in 2014. It took 7 years to develop ESO - it was Zenimax Online Studios first major project.
There are 250 employees working at Zenimax Studios (reported in 2012). A team that worked, again, for 7 years to get this game completed.
Here is a photo of the team - some of which may no longer be with Zenimax and have sought new horizons.
http://images.uesp.net//thumb/b/bc/ON-misc-Development_Team.jpg/600px-ON-misc-Development_Team.jpg

1000's of hours of work. 100's of people coming in every day to keep the game running. 11 total years of development time invested - so far.
My oldest daughter is 15, so if I were working with Zenimax, I would have been working on this game for the majority of her life!

Does it suck when the game doesn't operate as it should? Absolutely.
But, taking that disappointment and suggesting that it means the development team doesn't care about the game is, obviously, false. AND, to the point that someone will likely make as a response, OF COURSE they charge for items at the crown store. They put in the work and should get paid for it. You don't need to buy it. It's an option. If you don't see the value then don't spend the money.

I suppose this is a little "soap-box" like - but there seems to be a lot of discontent (not that I don't understand why - to be clear) that is also very out of place and reeks of pretentious, self-aggrandizing, and - quite frankly - pompous attitudes from people whose only claim is that they play the game.

LegendaryMage · July 2018

Ok.

Mojmir · July 2018

"Laggy cyrodiil style golf clap"

redspecter23 · July 2018

The devs work damn hard on this game and it does show. There are issues and that's unfortunate. Not everything can be fixed easily or as fast as players would like. One thing that I still find unfortunate is when issues are ignored completely. No communication on issues that players are concerned about. I get that fixes can be slow, but acknowledgement of the issues is fast and can put many minds at ease, at least for a time.

ResTandRespeC · July 2018

You say you understand the peoples issues, then go on to make the same types of claims they make. Okay.

riVALry9 · July 2018

I used to be like you....all optimistic and such lol. 3 years of observing this company’s actions and tactics has overcome that optimism. Don’t misunderstand me, I have no doubt that the devs WANT to do well with everything that they release, but whatever methods they have been using are clearly not working.

VaranisArano · July 2018

For the most part, the PVE portion of the game delivers what I want from the game.

The PVP side, on the other hand, has been plagued by lag, disconnects, inability to support the large-scale combat its designed for, and persistent and reoccurring bugs and exploits more or less for over a year. Sure, the Summerset patch is worse than usual, but bad performance in PVP is nothing new.

I love ESO. I love ESO PVP. I just wish it performed well enough that more players could actually play properly.

SHADOW2KK · July 2018

Cool story OP but they get paid for this, so they can do their jobs better.

People have a right to voice their irritations at this game, as any paying customer, we are not remotely interested in their personal lives or anything, just to do their jobs competently and deliver a stable game.

Been here since the closed betas of 2013 and seen it all, as have some others, not many of us left I would imagine.

We all want the game to be better, it is up to them to deliver, and it is slowly getting there.

orubor · July 2018

Nah. Look, I appreciate the game, it's fun and I enjoy it and intend to keep playing it, but ZOS genuinely has terrible management with this game.

ESO started in 2014. It's been 4 years. Four. Whole. Years. And these type of problems have been going on since launch. I understand that having two megaservers and an insane amount of traffic must be hard to manage. But four years is plenty of time to fix that. To come up with new solutions instead of maintenance every other week that just fixes problems for a week or two, and then rinse and repeat.

Even before Summerset came out I was still noticing problems. And it literally extends outside of the game. Sending in a support ticket is practically useless. Posting in the forums will not solve disconnects and lag, because all ZOS does is respond with the same troubleshoot to every thread, which doesn't work for the majority of the people having these problems.

ZOS doesn't admit fault to any of this, either. This stuff is absolutely beyond ridiculous. Shout out to the Dev's for creating an amazing game, sure, but I can't honestly say ZOS deserves much credit for trying to fix these problems. Because they don't fix them.

DrSweetazz · July 2018

Yes congratulations is due for making the framework of a quality game....now finish it so we can actually play it

Rogue_Ghost · July 2018

@redspecter23

redspecter23 wrote: »

The devs work damn hard on this game and it does show. There are issues and that's unfortunate. Not everything can be fixed easily or as fast as players would like. One thing that I still find unfortunate is when issues are ignored completely. No communication on issues that players are concerned about. I get that fixes can be slow, but acknowledgement of the issues is fast and can put many minds at ease, at least for a time.

On this I completely agree. It's best to own up to an issue rather than stay silent and hope it goes away. Even with their acknowledgement (of the server issues, not sure if you are referring to other issues in there...) it simply seems to stoke the fires and people hit them with the classic "lazy" "don't care" "greedy" moniker as a result anyway though. So, is it better to acknowledge and take the heat anyway, or, simply work on it, get it done, and do it quietly? Either way, the heat will come. It's a razor's edge.

To address others:
I am not suggesting that voicing concerns, bringing up complaints, and/or requesting changes is a bad thing. Not at all. I have brought up concerns of my own a few times as well. Where it becomes ridiculous is when people disregard the thousands of hours people have worked to provide this game - for over 11 years now in total - because they have a little bit more difficulty controlling their character.
For instance, right now I know that the Summerset expansion is huge - I have it myself - and because it's the hot new thing it's also a little crowded and can experience some issues as a result. I can either A.) whine and complain about it, throw a hissy fit, and demand that the developers get fired as a result. OR, B.) I can move to another area where the traffic isn't as bad and enjoy myself doing something else for a while until it clears up a bit.

Personally, I choose the latter. I find my entertainment somewhere else in the ESO world.

Meanwhile, I see many others who seem to choose the first option. And, many of them at least, seem to find themselves here opening a new thread about how bad things are, they can't play, they demand changes instantly, and Oh, BTW, the entire development team is a group of greedy, lazy, idiots.

Maybe it falls on deaf ears. Perhaps people genuinely feel as if they are that important simply because they play a game.

I just choose to keep things in perspective.

@orubor

orubor wrote: »

Even before Summerset came out I was still noticing problems. And it literally extends outside of the game. Sending in a support ticket is practically useless. Posting in the forums will not solve disconnects and lag, because all ZOS does is respond with the same troubleshoot to every thread, which doesn't work for the majority of the people having these problems.

ZOS doesn't admit fault to any of this, either. This stuff is absolutely beyond ridiculous. Shout out to the Dev's for creating an amazing game, sure, but I can't honestly say ZOS deserves much credit for trying to fix these problems. Because they don't fix them.

I can't say that I've had any experience with the company outside of playing the game. If support tickets and other such issues are not being properly addressed then this is a situation that they themselves are creating. Either by A.) not having a good enough support system in place to actually - you know - support the game and it's customers; or B.) they are simply not responding to these requests appropriately and are instead providing canned responses that have never helped anyone - EVER. I too would be rather upset if I used the platform THEY provided, voiced my concerns, and got nothing in return. If that is a larger experience others have had, then I can fully support a request for immediate change.

The forums are, well, the forums. They are not really designed for true technical support issues. Sure, they have a few threads here and there for it - but even the company knows that the amount of "good" inquiries in a format such as this is going to be absolutely minimal at best. A request in the forums should, naturally, take less precedence than a request completed through actual support channels.

FloppyTouch · July 2018

I tried to agree with you but crashed 3 times

Rogue_Ghost · July 2018

FloppyTouch wrote: »

I tried to agree with you but crashed 3 times

I had a good laugh at this, so thank you. lol

I am not at all saying it is perfect. There is a lot of road left before it gets there. The alternative is the DEV's stop working on it altogether - and I would hate to see ESO become a stagnant game that people quickly abandon because there is nothing new going on with it.

Morgul667 · July 2018

FloppyTouch wrote: »

I tried to agree with you but crashed 3 times

liked this one ^^

ArchMikem · July 2018

You know the saying, it takes more muscles to smile, than it does to frown?

Its harder to appreciate. Its easy to hate, its even fun for some people. Theres no getting around that. I at least am glad to see this kind of post on the forum.

ravnarok · July 2018

ArchMikem wrote: »

You know the saying, it takes more muscles to smile, than it does to frown?

Its harder to appreciate. Its easy to hate, its even fun for some people. Theres no getting around that. I at least am glad to see this kind of post on the forum.

Aint that the truth!

oXI_Viper_IXo · July 2018

Calling them "minor issues" is seriously minimizing what is actually happening on consoles right now. We are not wrong to expect a working product as consumers.

Vapirko · July 2018

redspecter23 wrote: »

The devs work damn hard on this game and it does show. There are issues and that's unfortunate. Not everything can be fixed easily or as fast as players would like. One thing that I still find unfortunate is when issues are ignored completely. No communication on issues that players are concerned about. I get that fixes can be slow, but acknowledgement of the issues is fast and can put many minds at ease, at least for a time.

True. But now I’ve feel like they’ve taken to acknowledging issues, receiving the praise, and then leaving it at that.

orubor · July 2018

Rogue_Ghost wrote: »

@orubor

orubor wrote: »

Even before Summerset came out I was still noticing problems. And it literally extends outside of the game. Sending in a support ticket is practically useless. Posting in the forums will not solve disconnects and lag, because all ZOS does is respond with the same troubleshoot to every thread, which doesn't work for the majority of the people having these problems.

ZOS doesn't admit fault to any of this, either. This stuff is absolutely beyond ridiculous. Shout out to the Dev's for creating an amazing game, sure, but I can't honestly say ZOS deserves much credit for trying to fix these problems. Because they don't fix them.

I can't say that I've had any experience with the company outside of playing the game. If support tickets and other such issues are not being properly addressed then this is a situation that they themselves are creating. Either by A.) not having a good enough support system in place to actually - you know - support the game and it's customers; or B.) they are simply not responding to these requests appropriately and are instead providing canned responses that have never helped anyone - EVER. I too would be rather upset if I used the platform THEY provided, voiced my concerns, and got nothing in return. If that is a larger experience others have had, then I can fully support a request for immediate change.

The forums are, well, the forums. They are not really designed for true technical support issues. Sure, they have a few threads here and there for it - but even the company knows that the amount of "good" inquiries in a format such as this is going to be absolutely minimal at best. A request in the forums should, naturally, take less precedence than a request completed through actual support channels.

Honestly...I guess it just depends. A lot of the users who have problems are steam users. There are obviously issues that need to be fixed, but this thread has kind of given me a different perspective, which I thank you for that.

I know I find myself very angry when these problems happen. I think I get caught off guard and my first instinct is to be upset that I can't play the game, like a lot of people. But also, that's no reason to yell at the devs, or treat them like crap. The people who manage the game aren't robots and therefore can't be perfect and it's unrealistic to expect it to be running smoothly 24/7 365 days a year.

It kind of feels there's not a balance to this stuff. People are either 100% angry and demand to have something fixed in an instant, or people are having no problems and treat the people who are having problems like it's no big deal. Devs should be appreciated, of course, but there are things that ultimately need to be worked on, even if that's not gonna happen overnight.

TheValkyn · July 2018

It's almost as if they got paid to make the game. That's enough.

Rogue_Ghost · July 2018

TheValkyn wrote: »

It's almost as if they got paid to make the game. That's enough.

Not trying to be humorous, or downgrade your thoughts here - but really?

Morrowind, Summerset, Thieves Guild, Dark Brotherhood, The Orc DLC (can't remember the name off hand), Clockwork City, Dragon Bones.

That's quite a bit of content. Don't get me wrong, I agree that some of the content is simply cookie-cutter. How many times can I buy a senche? How many times can I buy a lion? This one glows a little differently, that one doesn't glow at all. But, it's just adding effects to items they already carry.

It would be nice to see some more variation in what is available. I am still a little upset that I couldn't get the stag without a little bit of crate gambling involved - but they add a great deal to the game and continue to do so.

Like I said, some of the complaints are valid.

Huyen · July 2018

Rogue_Ghost wrote: »

Sure, there are some minor issues going on at the moment. People are upset because the game they love to play is suddenly not operating at it's optimum level.

That sucks.

But, is that really a surprise? And, I don't mean that to suggest that it's the developers problem at all - I am simply stating the fact that ANY game has it's fair share of troubles from time to time. This is simply heightened exponentially by the added difficulty of having one HUGE game, operating on multiple platforms, releasing consistent upgrades, DLC, expansions, AND supporting millions of players across the world - all of whom expect the game to operate when they sit down and turn it on.

That's a tall order. Even for a team of experienced developers.

What's worse, is the ungratefulness people seem to display when things go - a little wonky. It's as if the world has crashed down around them! The DEV's know two things, no matter what. If they get it right, they are heroes. If something breaks, someone, somewhere - and likely someone who is WAY too involved in the game to begin with - will start demanding they all get fired, call for their heads on spikes outside of the building, and begin talking about cancelling their membership/demanding a refund.

Really? Exactly how much work have you put into this game? How many hours have you invested into developing this game? Not playing, but working on. Big difference.

I, for one, would rather thank the DEV's for their hard work, dedication, and overall outstanding service to a game that millions of people enjoy every single day.

Here are some stats: Perhaps the DEV's can chime in if they are not quite accurate, but it's the best I could find.

Zenimax Online Studios was formed in 2007. ESO was released in 2014. It took 7 years to develop ESO - it was Zenimax Online Studios first major project.
There are 250 employees working at Zenimax Studios (reported in 2012). A team that worked, again, for 7 years to get this game completed.
Here is a photo of the team - some of which may no longer be with Zenimax and have sought new horizons.
http://images.uesp.net//thumb/b/bc/ON-misc-Development_Team.jpg/600px-ON-misc-Development_Team.jpg

1000's of hours of work. 100's of people coming in every day to keep the game running. 11 total years of development time invested - so far.
My oldest daughter is 15, so if I were working with Zenimax, I would have been working on this game for the majority of her life!

Does it suck when the game doesn't operate as it should? Absolutely.
But, taking that disappointment and suggesting that it means the development team doesn't care about the game is, obviously, false. AND, to the point that someone will likely make as a response, OF COURSE they charge for items at the crown store. They put in the work and should get paid for it. You don't need to buy it. It's an option. If you don't see the value then don't spend the money.

I suppose this is a little "soap-box" like - but there seems to be a lot of discontent (not that I don't understand why - to be clear) that is also very out of place and reeks of pretentious, self-aggrandizing, and - quite frankly - pompous attitudes from people whose only claim is that they play the game.

Its not the issues that make people mad. Its thr lack of information and an overall lack of competence towards the game.

Not to mention the cashgrabs...

Aesthier · July 2018

Rogue_Ghost wrote: »

Sure, there are some minor issues going on at the moment. People are upset because the game they love to play is suddenly not operating at it's optimum level.

...or not operating at all for some.

So in your eyes...:
1. Broken launcher issues such as patches on infinite downloading/validate/repair loops.
2. CTDs upon "play" button initialization
3. Inability to connect/ login
4. Infinite Character login in/loading screens
5. Infinite loading screens/CTDs that happen randomly or when opening doors or just walking through Cyrodil

...all those are just examples of

Rogue_Ghost wrote: »

...when things go - a little wonky.

Rogue_Ghost wrote: »

What's worse, is the ungratefulness people seem to display when things go - a little wonky. It's as if the world has crashed down around them! The DEV's know two things, no matter what. If they get it right, they are heroes. If something breaks, someone, somewhere - and likely someone who is WAY too involved in the game to begin with - will start demanding they all get fired, call for their heads on spikes outside of the building, and begin talking about cancelling their membership/demanding a refund.

Really? Exactly how much work have you put into this game? How many hours have you invested into developing this game? Not playing, but working on. Big difference.

REALITY CHECK!
Players are the customers "paying" for a "working" product to be supplied.
ZeniMax Online is the company being paid to supply that "working" product".

Currently, ZeniMax Online is not ensuring all their paying customers are receiving a "working product".

If someone is paying for working product and receives a broken and unusable product then YES canceling their "paid" membership and demanding a refund is a logical thing to do.

Look I love the Dev's they designed and made a beautiful game. I am not even upset with anyone as an individual from ZoS.

But I am beginning to despise ZeniMax Online. For a company that has been actively managing this game for over 4 years now, they should have a much better grasp of the underlying code required for stable connectivity and gameplay.

I get that each new release placed on an aging engine increases the difficulties, but prioritizing new expansions and toys to sell over fixing connectivity and stability issues that DENY customers access to the very product they are paying for is outlandish.

If the team/s in charge of connectivity and stability issues can't handle it, then take a chunk of the money and hire a specialty team to fix it. The point is to prioritize and FIX the problem instead of tap dancing around it, avoiding it or even blaming the customers who are being denied the working product they paid for.

Drdeath20 · July 2018

I never understood why forum posters become apologists for the game?

Doctordarkspawn · July 2018

Not to this bloody degree.

I've not gone a day without DCing since summerset. It used to be more stable than this.

Aurielle · July 2018

I agree that some of the vitriol goes a bit too far. The developers are human, and they make mistakes. I don’t fault them for that at all.

That being said, when I’m paying for a service, I do expect it to function at a certain level, and for issues to be addressed in a timely fashion. It’s really frustrating to see Crown store related issues fixed rapidly, while we enter our fourth consecutive week of frequent crashing in Cyrodiil and FPS stuttering everywhere on console.

You know what happens when game developers prioritize the cash shop over performance? Long-term, loyal customers leave. Turbine is another MMORPG company that did not prioritize performance; I left LOTRO after eight years of paying a subscription on top of cash store extras because they did not fix their massive FPS drops and memory leaks.

It is more expensive to attract new customers than it is to keep existing customers happy, and ZOS would do well to remember that. If the freezing in Cyrodiil is not fixed soon, I will absolutely take my subscription money elsewhere.

Androconium · July 2018

Just who are these mysterious devs?

Are you sure that the people that do the actual development/coding are the same people that decide what content is made available?

Miswar · July 2018

Devs has produced a lot content. Good for that one.

However when ZoS has flatout ignored performance threads for what few years now... people are finally short on sympathy.

There was the Clockwork DLC fiasco and now another even bigger console fiasco... well.. go check the alliane forums its a graveyard of ignored performance threads.

I apologize for not having much sympathy left... You can avoid and try to ignore but eventually that will catch up to you and this is bad road this game is going with current problems.

Also what is the new content good for if the performance is awful as it is nowdays? I mean people bought this game and paid their montly fees to PLAY the game!

Violynne · July 2018

Rogue_Ghost wrote: »

Sure, there are some minor issues going on at the moment.

4 years isn't a moment.

MajesticHaruki · July 2018

Shout out to the DEV's "what"?

RebornV3x · July 2018

Ever game has its problems and trust me ive played a lot of bad games from Superman 64 etc to even the crappiest early release game of today ive never seen a game that continues to have year 1 issues 4 years after release I've never played a game where the performance actually gets worse than better its crazy