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Dark Soulgems

carljokl
carljokl
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I have noted from reading lore that trapping of sentient species like humans and mer in soul gems requires the use of dark should gems. I don't believe ESO includes any notion of dark soul gems and that sentient enemies can be captured in any soul gems.

From the story around Vanus Gallerion vs Mannimarco we lean the practice of necromancy including the use of dark should gems is banned by the mages guild.

I might infer that strictly speaking if a player traps a sentient enemy in a soul gem then they are committing a crime that risks expulsion from the mages guild (if they are a member). It doesn't seem like daedric summoning is frowned upon in the same way.

I am imagining the possibilities for taunting sentient enemies in soul gems, or keeping them for company like pets... >:)
My Characters

Xargothius: Breton - JOAT / Magsorc | Orchid the Fair: Orismer - Crafter / Heavy Tank | Voneri Vox: Dunmer - Magplar Healer | Rexorgiana: Imperial - Temptress / Magblade
Phirkius: Altmer - MagSorc | Rexorigus: Imperial - Med Tank / StamKnight | Sven Svedishchef: Nord - Provisioner / Stamplar | Finds-All-Fungi: Argonian - Alchemist/ Stamblade
Emerald-Wild-Guard: Bosmer - Wyrd / StamSorc | Nates Datum Festi: Imperial - Light Tank / StamKnight | Magnolia Desert-Blossom: Redguard - 2 Handed Stamplar | Shadow-Softpaw: Khajiit - StamBlade
Sorcerer | Dragon Knight | Templar | Night Blade
  • Turelus
    Turelus
    Community Ambassador
    You can also technically trap the souls of people who don't have souls.

    Base game story spoiler.
    Use Soul Trap in Cyrodiil vs someone who hasn't finished the related base games main story and you get full full soul gem.
    @Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
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  • notimetocare
    notimetocare
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    Turelus wrote: »
    You can also technically trap the souls of people who don't have souls.

    Base game story spoiler.
    Use Soul Trap in Cyrodiil vs someone who hasn't finished the related base games main story and you get full full soul gem.

    Mechanic vs lore. In Cyrodiil, you are a part of the army and not the Vestige
  • notimetocare
    notimetocare
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    carljokl wrote: »
    I have noted from reading lore that trapping of sentient species like humans and mer in soul gems requires the use of dark should gems. I don't believe ESO includes any notion of dark soul gems and that sentient enemies can be captured in any soul gems.

    From the story around Vanus Gallerion vs Mannimarco we lean the practice of necromancy including the use of dark should gems is banned by the mages guild.

    I might infer that strictly speaking if a player traps a sentient enemy in a soul gem then they are committing a crime that risks expulsion from the mages guild (if they are a member). It doesn't seem like daedric summoning is frowned upon in the same way.

    I am imagining the possibilities for taunting sentient enemies in soul gems, or keeping them for company like pets... >:)

    Not so simple. Black soul gems trap specific souls of man/mer/beasts but not only them. The difference is in the use, Necromancy.

    The hate of Necromancy in ESO is the general evil of most necromancers but not in all places either (depending on form).

    Black soul gems don't exist in game because of simplifying mechanics. Mannimarco uses them in the cinematic of your characters murder however.

    Filling a black soul gem is not the crime. Murder is xD
  • Merlian
    Merlian
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    I actually had this discussion the other night with someone. My understanding is that normal soul gems and black soul gems are the same physically. What differentiates the two are the souls being held inside where normal gems hold "White Souls" or non- sentient souls (Deer or other animals). Black souls gem's hold "Black Souls" or sentient souls (Humans).

    The lack of Black Soul gems in game seems to just be a mechanic decision, because they have been seen in game multiple times in quests/cinematic. I guess during development it was decided there was no need to differentiate between the two gems mechanically, although if they did and you stole someones soul in PvP and had a Black Gem with their name that would be bloody awesome!
    PC NA
    |Merlian Nightstalker| - DC Imperial Magicka Dragonknight
    |Nix Nightstalker| - EP Imperial Stamina Sorccer
    |Kragdin Longrock| - DC Imperial Stamina Templar
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    "If the job were easy, it wouldn't be any fun!"
  • carljokl
    carljokl
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    I think capturing an opponents soul is a lot more sophisticated and tasteful than tea bagging them to show dominance.
    My Characters

    Xargothius: Breton - JOAT / Magsorc | Orchid the Fair: Orismer - Crafter / Heavy Tank | Voneri Vox: Dunmer - Magplar Healer | Rexorgiana: Imperial - Temptress / Magblade
    Phirkius: Altmer - MagSorc | Rexorigus: Imperial - Med Tank / StamKnight | Sven Svedishchef: Nord - Provisioner / Stamplar | Finds-All-Fungi: Argonian - Alchemist/ Stamblade
    Emerald-Wild-Guard: Bosmer - Wyrd / StamSorc | Nates Datum Festi: Imperial - Light Tank / StamKnight | Magnolia Desert-Blossom: Redguard - 2 Handed Stamplar | Shadow-Softpaw: Khajiit - StamBlade
    Sorcerer | Dragon Knight | Templar | Night Blade
  • Enodoc
    Enodoc
    Community Ambassador
    I think black soul gems are mentioned in passing in-game in Coldharbour, but technically they don't really exist yet. Splitting the definition of souls into "black" and "white" has only just been proposed in the ESO time period.
    UESP: The Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages - A collaborative source for all knowledge on the Elder Scrolls series since 1995
  • carljokl
    carljokl
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    I wonder then if it is technically an error or lore then that Skyrim had empty dark soul gems rather than the just the souls themselves being dark or light?
    My Characters

    Xargothius: Breton - JOAT / Magsorc | Orchid the Fair: Orismer - Crafter / Heavy Tank | Voneri Vox: Dunmer - Magplar Healer | Rexorgiana: Imperial - Temptress / Magblade
    Phirkius: Altmer - MagSorc | Rexorigus: Imperial - Med Tank / StamKnight | Sven Svedishchef: Nord - Provisioner / Stamplar | Finds-All-Fungi: Argonian - Alchemist/ Stamblade
    Emerald-Wild-Guard: Bosmer - Wyrd / StamSorc | Nates Datum Festi: Imperial - Light Tank / StamKnight | Magnolia Desert-Blossom: Redguard - 2 Handed Stamplar | Shadow-Softpaw: Khajiit - StamBlade
    Sorcerer | Dragon Knight | Templar | Night Blade
  • Enodoc
    Enodoc
    Community Ambassador
    carljokl wrote: »
    I wonder then if it is technically an error or lore then that Skyrim had empty dark soul gems rather than the just the souls themselves being dark or light?
    Black soul gems in Skyrim is correct, because they can be created from Grand Soul Gems under the Necromancer's Moon in the Shade of the Revenant. Black soul gems in ESO is less correct, given that the Shade of the Revenant doesn't really exist yet.

    What you can extrapolate from the "Guild Memo on Soul Trapping" though is that following the division of souls into black and white, soul trap spells could no longer trap "black" souls in standard gems, because the spell was adjusted such that it only affected "white" souls. Thus a separate gem had to be created so that the spell could once again trap a black soul in something.
    UESP: The Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages - A collaborative source for all knowledge on the Elder Scrolls series since 1995
  • carljokl
    carljokl
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    Now I am thinking of the Bosmer dominion spy on Bleakrock Isle: "Your soul is missing. Do you want mine? It is black and gooey"
    My Characters

    Xargothius: Breton - JOAT / Magsorc | Orchid the Fair: Orismer - Crafter / Heavy Tank | Voneri Vox: Dunmer - Magplar Healer | Rexorgiana: Imperial - Temptress / Magblade
    Phirkius: Altmer - MagSorc | Rexorigus: Imperial - Med Tank / StamKnight | Sven Svedishchef: Nord - Provisioner / Stamplar | Finds-All-Fungi: Argonian - Alchemist/ Stamblade
    Emerald-Wild-Guard: Bosmer - Wyrd / StamSorc | Nates Datum Festi: Imperial - Light Tank / StamKnight | Magnolia Desert-Blossom: Redguard - 2 Handed Stamplar | Shadow-Softpaw: Khajiit - StamBlade
    Sorcerer | Dragon Knight | Templar | Night Blade
  • Konstant_Tel_Necris
    Konstant_Tel_Necris
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    Enodoc wrote: »
    I think black soul gems are mentioned in passing in-game in Coldharbour, but technically they don't really exist yet. Splitting the definition of souls into "black" and "white" has only just been proposed in the ESO time period.

    But actually they are exist, they just more rarre then normal soul gems.
    With a brash courage known only to the young, Mannimarco and his followers held open a portal to the Prince's realm. Ever thirsting for adventure, it was Vastarie who entered its depths and returned with a cache of black crystals the likes of which they had never seen.

    To Mannimarco, they were perfect. Small, capable of containing even the most willful of souls, and apparently indestructible. To Vastarie, they were deeply flawed, for enchantment was the only safe way to free a soul from their depths.
    http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Legend_of_Vastarie

    Vampire Buoyant Armiger found one of such gems in Dagot Ur cavern.
    Rithari sought and obtained a cursed soul gem of mysterious nature from a deep cavern on the northern slopes of Dagoth Ur, delivering it to Molag Bal's shrine in Bal Ur.
    http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Galur_Rithari's_Papers_(book)

    Besids soul gems can be mined from natural geodes like in Blackreach
    Empty Soul Gems can also be harvested from Geode Veins resulting in 2-3 gems of any size, including Black Soul Gems. Blackreach is home to numerous Geode Veins, and is the only known place where they can be found and mined.

    Also there was Lore about thats during Planemeld Molag Bal somehow alter necromancy soultraping so souls does not go in Soul Cairn as usual, as we know there goes even white souls.

    You right about Soultrap spell thats was modifed by Mage Guild to not affect white souls, but black soul gems exist even before, Shade of the Revenant just transform normal grand soulsgems into their more rare black counterpart.
  • notimetocare
    notimetocare
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    Enodoc wrote: »
    I think black soul gems are mentioned in passing in-game in Coldharbour, but technically they don't really exist yet. Splitting the definition of souls into "black" and "white" has only just been proposed in the ESO time period.

    But actually they are exist, they just more rarre then normal soul gems.
    With a brash courage known only to the young, Mannimarco and his followers held open a portal to the Prince's realm. Ever thirsting for adventure, it was Vastarie who entered its depths and returned with a cache of black crystals the likes of which they had never seen.

    To Mannimarco, they were perfect. Small, capable of containing even the most willful of souls, and apparently indestructible. To Vastarie, they were deeply flawed, for enchantment was the only safe way to free a soul from their depths.
    http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Legend_of_Vastarie

    Vampire Buoyant Armiger found one of such gems in Dagot Ur cavern.
    Rithari sought and obtained a cursed soul gem of mysterious nature from a deep cavern on the northern slopes of Dagoth Ur, delivering it to Molag Bal's shrine in Bal Ur.
    http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Galur_Rithari's_Papers_(book)

    Besids soul gems can be mined from natural geodes like in Blackreach
    Empty Soul Gems can also be harvested from Geode Veins resulting in 2-3 gems of any size, including Black Soul Gems. Blackreach is home to numerous Geode Veins, and is the only known place where they can be found and mined.

    Also there was Lore about thats during Planemeld Molag Bal somehow alter necromancy soultraping so souls does not go in Soul Cairn as usual, as we know there goes even white souls.

    You right about Soultrap spell thats was modifed by Mage Guild to not affect white souls, but black soul gems exist even before, Shade of the Revenant just transform normal grand soulsgems into their more rare black counterpart.

    Souls were sacrificed to Bal. Nothing special on that front tbh
  • Yo_Donno
    Yo_Donno
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    Aren't black soul gems mentioned in Asylum Sanctorium? Something like..

    Sotha Sil traps the souls of the 3 Saints in black soul gems, and then builds them into the factotums and the mechanical titan. But living in the black soul gems for so long made them go crazy and that's why he locked them in the Asylum.

    Also, wasn't Sotha Sil the one who originally developed black soul gems?
  • theskymoves
    theskymoves
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    At least one other 'black soul gem' makes an appearance in the Clockwork City DLC; it plays an integral part in the quest Most Complicated Machine
    Edited by theskymoves on June 29, 2018 12:07PM
  • LMar
    LMar
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    Yo_Donno wrote: »
    Aren't black soul gems mentioned in Asylum Sanctorium? Something like..

    Sotha Sil traps the souls of the 3 Saints in black soul gems, and then builds them into the factotums and the mechanical titan. But living in the black soul gems for so long made them go crazy and that's why he locked them in the Asylum.

    Also, wasn't Sotha Sil the one who originally developed black soul gems?

    I asked this question in an ESO live and the lore master said thar black souk gems is a magical technology that has been discovered more than one time... So yes, Sotha Sil discovered and used them but also Molag Bal and Mannimarco
    "If a stick of fish is a fish stick, it will stick like other fish sticks stick"
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