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Warden Class gets an overhaul!
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Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sorry, but Shalks skill have to go. It's both visually and mechanically awful.
Also, I think we can ditch the spammable, consireding there are many options. We could get a spriggan pet instead, that could deal damage and heal at the same time.
Warden has 4 damage skills (currently a big issue with this class) and you want to remove two of them
Would a spriggan pet really make up for those? Also Wardens have no class execute, so losing their delayed damage skill would make them very weak....
Sorcs don't have a class spammable and Force Pulse is working more than fine for them. Also, most wardens run FP anyway.
As for Shalks...turn it into a dot, into instant AOE, into...anything, but this clunky garbage.
Deep Fissure is one of the few remaining class skills that the few remaining Magdens use in pvp... please do not turn it into a dot or make it instant... both of those options would ruin its burst potential... then what?... Magden will be forced to run all weapon and guild skill and fight at npc levels of predictability
And why would any Magden run fp when ew exists?
After all these nerfs in pve, I couldn't give a *** about pvp.
Shalks is an awful skill. It has to go.
You don’t care? What a revelation... PvP exists and is an important part of the game that many players enjoy... Why would you want to absolutely ruin the PvP magden more than it has been? You not caring is an awful excuse... By the way, I main Magden for everything PvE and PvP and would love some PvE buffs... but nerfing one of the last remaining PvP viable class skills for the sake of PvE is not the way to go...
That person is highly biased about Scorch but plz keep arguments minimal here anyway. None of the changes I proposed will ever happen regardless of whether they’re horrible or amazing
let’s not get the thread locked lol 0 -
Anhedonie✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Sorry, but Shalks skill have to go. It's both visually and mechanically awful.
Also, I think we can ditch the spammable, consireding there are many options. We could get a spriggan pet instead, that could deal damage and heal at the same time.
Warden has 4 damage skills (currently a big issue with this class) and you want to remove two of them Would a spriggan pet really make up for those? Also Wardens have no class execute, so losing their delayed damage skill would make them very weak....
Sorcs don't have a class spammable and Force Pulse is working more than fine for them. Also, most wardens run FP anyway.
As for Shalks...turn it into a dot, into instant AOE, into...anything, but this clunky garbage.
Deep Fissure is one of the few remaining class skills that the few remaining Magdens use in pvp... please do not turn it into a dot or make it instant... both of those options would ruin its burst potential... then what?... Magden will be forced to run all weapon and guild skill and fight at npc levels of predictability
And why would any Magden run fp when ew exists?
After all these nerfs in pve, I couldn't give a *** about pvp.
Shalks is an awful skill. It has to go.
Why do you hate Scorch so much? It’s a good skill with plenty of counterplay. Useful in both PvE and PvP. Also you have to consider all content when balancing stuff - not okay to be biased or you shaft lots of players......
In this scenario PvP actually caused Deep Fissure to get buffed in PvE scenarios (though Subterranean Assault was nerfed)
1. Extremly clunky mechanic.
2. Borderline useless. Good for debuffing trash mobs, but for single target using this skill will actually result in dps loss.
3. Very costly.
4. Godawful, lazy, unimaginitive animation (the worst part about this skill tbh). NPCs have Haj-Mota animation for that skill. That I could tolerate, but we got this garbage bugs animation instead.
Edited by Anhedonie on June 4, 2018 11:19PMProfanity filter is a crime against the freedom of speech. Also gags.0 -
Amdar_Godkiller✭✭✭✭✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Love most of the Animal Companions changes besides Subterranian assault. Speaking strictly in terms of PvE, to do the most damage this skill has to be cast on cooldown, meaning 3 casts per rotation. This fact is the main reason warden has sustain issues in PvE at times. I get nerfing the damage of this skill for PvP's sake, but if you keep or raise its cost, while reducing the damage so significantly (even with notch up) it wont be useful. Possible solution is keeping the damage nerf, but elreducing its cost OR refunding a part of its cost based on the number of targets affected (10% per target up to 60%).
My idea in terms of Subterranean Assault for PvE was that Stam Wardens should use it in the same way as Mag Wardens, meaning only in AoE fights. It should also keep the debuffs to remain a really good support skill for tanks/Healers that might want to use it. I nerfed the damage by 20% for the sake of reducing its burst potential in PvP which is clearly too strong rn.
So the net effect would hopefully be that casting Subterranean Assault on cooldown is no longer the way to deal the highest damage in single target, no longer forcing Stam Warden to have to use this so often.
However, Stam Warden would counter this thanks to the increase in DPS from Freezing Toxin, the Wolf Ult (should be a huge help and rarely ever die), and the increased sustain/damage from the Bull Netch buff and lots of free resources if occasionally casting Green Blossom. Plus not having to use Subterranean Assault so often should help sustain a lot. Also they’d get a lot of extra AoE DPS from Piercing Dive to make up for what was lost from the nerf.
This would be a large nerf to PVE Stam warden. So much so that they would fall behind just about every mag class. It would also make them no longer viable for PVP. Subterranean doesn't do any more damage than surprise attack, the sorc execute, dark flare, Incap, Dragon Leap, Jesus Beam or any other heavy hitting burst skill in the game; it's just much harder to land than all of them. You literally only have to roll sideways to avoid it entirely 100% of the time. If anything, it needs to be given a longer cast time by one second and a damage buff of about 33% to make the class competitive in PVE. I play both Mag and Stam Warden in PVP and Stam Warden in PVE, and while I like the changes for the Mag Warden, I'd quit the game in rage if Stam Warden was reduced in this fashion. Gives us a fetcherfly execute stam morph of growing swarm for crissakes! That's what this class needs most. That and for Arctic blast to be useful in any capacity.2 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Love most of the Animal Companions changes besides Subterranian assault. Speaking strictly in terms of PvE, to do the most damage this skill has to be cast on cooldown, meaning 3 casts per rotation. This fact is the main reason warden has sustain issues in PvE at times. I get nerfing the damage of this skill for PvP's sake, but if you keep or raise its cost, while reducing the damage so significantly (even with notch up) it wont be useful. Possible solution is keeping the damage nerf, but elreducing its cost OR refunding a part of its cost based on the number of targets affected (10% per target up to 60%).
My idea in terms of Subterranean Assault for PvE was that Stam Wardens should use it in the same way as Mag Wardens, meaning only in AoE fights. It should also keep the debuffs to remain a really good support skill for tanks/Healers that might want to use it. I nerfed the damage by 20% for the sake of reducing its burst potential in PvP which is clearly too strong rn.
So the net effect would hopefully be that casting Subterranean Assault on cooldown is no longer the way to deal the highest damage in single target, no longer forcing Stam Warden to have to use this so often.
However, Stam Warden would counter this thanks to the increase in DPS from Freezing Toxin, the Wolf Ult (should be a huge help and rarely ever die), and the increased sustain/damage from the Bull Netch buff and lots of free resources if occasionally casting Green Blossom. Plus not having to use Subterranean Assault so often should help sustain a lot. Also they’d get a lot of extra AoE DPS from Piercing Dive to make up for what was lost from the nerf.
This would be a large nerf to PVE Stam warden. So much so that they would fall behind just about every mag class. It would also make them no longer viable for PVP. Subterranean doesn't do any more damage than surprise attack, the sorc execute, dark flare, Incap, Dragon Leap, Jesus Beam or any other heavy hitting burst skill in the game; it's just much harder to land than all of them. You literally only have to roll sideways to avoid it entirely 100% of the time. If anything, it needs to be given a longer cast time by one second and a damage buff of about 33% to make the class competitive in PVE. I play both Mag and Stam Warden in PVP and Stam Warden in PVE, and while I like the changes for the Mag Warden, I'd quit the game in rage if Stam Warden was reduced in this fashion. Gives us a fetcherfly execute stam morph of growing swarm for crissakes! That's what this class needs most. That and for Arctic blast to be useful in any capacity.
@Amdar_Godkiller PvP Stam Warden is extremely strong rn.
Subterranean Assault doesn’t do more damage than the skills you listed by it’s also a delayed Dmg skill and very strong because of the ability to cast it without a target. The point of the changes is to reduce the burst Dmg it provides a bit in PvP - aka nerf PvP Stam Warden. It’d still be used to the exact same effect. The Dmg it deals just wouldn’t be as high which is fully the intent.
I really disagree with Stam Warden having any issues in PvE with this change. A -20% damage nerf to Subterranean Assault would not make them fall behind every Mag class lol, plus like I said that can be adjusted to -15% or even -10%. Very easy to change and ofc requires testing we will never be able to do.
Please remember that I revamped *the whole class* not just one skill lol. They gain a huge amount of damage elsewhere. You’re looking at the Subterranean Assault change in isolation to all of the other buffs. Stam Warden is not weak in the current patch, though they are behind - with the changes proposed they’d be amongst the best and allowed to build a bit differently and still be viable. Giving them a random 33% Damage buff to Subterranean Assault is unnecessary and actually would make them OP with all of the other changes I made. There needs to be solid logic and reasoning behind every change made, not just a random big %damage buff here or there.
As for Swarm and Arctic Blast, I don’t believe it’s a good idea for either of those to be Stam-based in anyway. Arctic Blast is a ball of ice..... that’s not for Stam. Swarm increasing Magic Damage dealt and although you could argue it can be Stam-based I’d rather it wasn’t. Stam and Mag should not use all of the same skills (Dive, Scorch, and Swarm) or their rotations/playstyles would feel too similar.
One poster had a good idea in Discord to add a stacking damage increase to Subterranean Assault so that it could still be used for PvE single target DPS as well.
The idea though in general was for Subterranean Assault to not be mandatory for max single target DPS as Stam Warden. If people actually like that though it could easily change.0 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Amdar_Godkiller I actually went ahead and edited Subterranean Assault in my original post a bit because -20% was a bit too big of a change. I made it so the initial burst is the only part lowered in damage rather than subsequent Subterranean Assaults as well. Def a better way to go about it imo, and made it synergies a bit more with Bull Netch that will only really help PvE Stam Wardens.
I also added more info about it obv being impossible to know the best value because we will never be able to test this stuff. Subterranean Assault is a touchy topic for Stam Wardens lol
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exiars10✭✭✭I highly agree with you but Wrobel doesn't care...
I'll write about things I don't agree.
Evergreen Protector as wolf is "never" going to happen. It means money investment into modeling and coding and it screws marketing. A big no no. Let it stay as a bear with your proposed changes. Don't be greedy
.
Swarm to have stamina morph, maybe?
Summon Ice Elemental - this is a big no:
1) Sorcerer has two morph of Storm Attronach so you:
a) either have Ice Attronach as ultimate with two morphs
b) or is not going to happen as you would have two completely different abilities for ulti --->
2) plus this is again investment.
And I strongly oppose Daedric summoning for Warden as class is nature and ice themed. We already have Sorcerer for daedric theme.
Keep it as simple as possible.Edited by exiars10 on June 5, 2018 8:47AMI don't play ESO since 15.06. because Cyrodiil is broken since Summerset (PvE isn't much better, too)...
Aldmeri Dominion (PC Europe via Steam)
The cowardly Wood Elves are best noted for their unwillingness to engage in a face-to-face attack; a Bosmer will strike at you from every side except the front. You won't cross swords with a Bosmer, but you might catch an arrow in the throat. Be wary in forests and jungles, and watch your back.0 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I highly agree with you but Wrobel doesn't care...
I'll write about things I don't agree.
Evergreen Protector as wolf is "never" going to happen. It means money investment into modeling and coding and it screws marketing. A big no no. Let it stay as a bear with your proposed changes. Don't be greedy.
Swarm to have stamina morph, maybe?
Summon Ice Elemental - this is a big no:
1) Sorcerer has two morph of Storm Attronach so you:
a) either have Ice Attronach as ultimate with two morphs
b) or is not going to happen as you would have two completely different abilities for ulti --->
2) plus this is again investment.
And I strongly oppose Daedric summoning for Warden as class is nature and ice themed. We already have Sorcerer for daedric theme.
Keep it as simple as possible.
I don’t really care if it is reasonable based on marketing stuff since they’d need to create new models, some new skills, etc. None of this stuff will ever happen anyway. I’m simply proposing what I wish the class was since its a mess rn with the most pidgeonholed playstyle out there
As for Ice Elemental it’s not much of a pet like Storm Atro is. It’s much more like Betty Netch that’ll give you lots of damage and work mainly based on how smartly you use it. I also like the idea of having two Ults in one (Permafrost vs Ice Elemental).
Ty for the feedback though!0 -
exiars10✭✭✭
I love my Warden and I posted my feedback in that thread.I don’t really care if it is reasonable based on marketing stuff since they’d need to create new models, some new skills, etc. None of this stuff will ever happen anyway. I’m simply proposing what I wish the class was since its a mess rn with the most pidgeonholed playstyle out there
You have to put yourself into ZMM and ZOS position. Just ignoring investment into coding, modeling and testing it, Warden is constantly marketed with bear and introducing wolf is a big no. So let it stay as a bear with your other proposed changes.
They still didn't introduce one, just one new skin for bear one year later even people are more than ready to buy it... And that should say a lot.
Again just ignoring Daedric summoning (as completely out of theme) there is no ultimate in the game which has two completely different morphs, right? Classes for sure.As for Ice Elemental it’s not much of a pet like Storm Atro is. It’s much more like Betty Netch that’ll give you lots of damage and work mainly based on how smartly you use it. I also like the idea of having two Ults in one (Permafrost vs Ice Elemental).
Ty for the feedback though!
Other than that I support changes.
I don't play ESO since 15.06. because Cyrodiil is broken since Summerset (PvE isn't much better, too)...
Aldmeri Dominion (PC Europe via Steam)
The cowardly Wood Elves are best noted for their unwillingness to engage in a face-to-face attack; a Bosmer will strike at you from every side except the front. You won't cross swords with a Bosmer, but you might catch an arrow in the throat. Be wary in forests and jungles, and watch your back.0 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
I love my Warden and I posted my feedback in that thread.I don’t really care if it is reasonable based on marketing stuff since they’d need to create new models, some new skills, etc. None of this stuff will ever happen anyway. I’m simply proposing what I wish the class was since its a mess rn with the most pidgeonholed playstyle out there
You have to put yourself into ZMM and ZOS position. Just ignoring investment into coding, modeling and testing it, Warden is constantly marketed with bear and introducing wolf is a big no. So let it stay as a bear with your other proposed changes.
They still didn't introduce one, just one new skin for bear one year later even people are more than ready to buy it... And that should say a lot.
Again just ignoring Daedric summoning (as completely out of theme) there is no ultimate in the game which has two completely different morphs, right? Classes for sure.As for Ice Elemental it’s not much of a pet like Storm Atro is. It’s much more like Betty Netch that’ll give you lots of damage and work mainly based on how smartly you use it. I also like the idea of having two Ults in one (Permafrost vs Ice Elemental).
Ty for the feedback though!
Other than that I support changes.
That could definitely work too! Creating a wolf skin. Same effect in the end though of ZOS needing to create a new model, code it, etc. the only difference is that your suggestion would then cost Crowns, no? Also it’s not a big deal that the Bear was their promo because there are 17 other classes skills that aren’t. Doesn’t matter if a Wolf is included as a morph imo.
As for Ults changing functionality of an ult skill we sort of already see this in a few Ults, but my idea here would push it a bit further. Soul Tether has a totally different functionality than Soul Siphon. Ballista is very different in actual use from Toxic Barrage. Destro Ult morphs are also pretty different though the comparison isn’t very accurate in that case.
What I’m saying though is that it doesn’t matter if it feels like two different Ults. Sleet Storm has a very unimaginative morph Northern Storm that feels like it should be part of the base skill so that’s what I did in my post. This opened up an Ult morph to help Ice Mage DPS become viable and feel unique so that’s why I came up with Ice Elemental. It just means more build variety because of how powerful Ice Elemental would be for an Ice Mage Warden, especially for PvE DPS. Plus their marketing advertises Warden many time as a Frost Mage yet it’s horribly unsupported in the current Warden class. I’d think Ice Elemental, Arctic Blast, and Frigid Torrent would match very well with advertising.Edited by Vaoh on June 5, 2018 9:49AM0 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@exiars10 Another thing about ZOS is that they originally did intend to have Warden be an Ice Mage, before deciding to turn the Ice Staff/Ice Magic into a tool for strictly tanking.
The Warden’s class description still fits the Ice Mage DPS ideology:
Wardens are defenders of the Green, master storytellers whose nature tales become magical reality. They wield frost spells against enemies and summon animals to aid them.
Reading this you’d think they are *primarily* Ice Mages, who also have animal summons and nature magic.
So it’s very important imo that Warden is give many more tools for Ice Mages that at least includes one powerful DPS ult.0 -
Zardayne✭✭✭✭✭Swarm
I feel growing swarm needs to be instant 6 target castable. The 10 second delay to swarm is useless.
Perhaps make the infection swarm the executable kind of like the poison arrow morph on bow.
I also hate having to double click fetcher infection to get the bonus damage. I'm already juggling so many buffs(lotus flower, netch) , toggles (if you use elemental weapon) , and delay of shalks that it makes combat sluggish IMO.
Living Vines
I wish one of these vine options were guaranteed to land on me, the caster.
Nature's Grasp
Since both morphs swing you to the target perhaps have one that's aoe targettable with some form of aoe buff or debuff attached.0 -
SocialAssassin✭✭✭I bought the Warden Class yesterday because I wanted to try a new class. Face it it's been quite a while since we had a new class in an Elder Scrolls game. It reminds me of a Ranger Druid hybrid without the shapeshifting. Although technically you can be a werewolf so there is that. I have to say so far I am not too impressed. I will continue playing it to see if it gets better? But I have my doubts so I will keep my expectations low for now.“I’m The Best There Is At What I Do. But What I Do Isn't Very Nice…” - Wolverine/Logan/James Howlett0 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The title is click bait heart attack...PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -2 -
SocialAssassin✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »The title is click bait heart attack...
Agreed why do gamers always complain about something getting "nerfed" it's called game balancing for the record. And every MMO does this. It's because they don't want an OP class.“I’m The Best There Is At What I Do. But What I Do Isn't Very Nice…” - Wolverine/Logan/James Howlett0 -
Anhedonie✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SocialAssassin wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »The title is click bait heart attack...
Agreed why do gamers always complain about something getting "nerfed" it's called game balancing for the record. And every MMO does this. It's because they don't want an OP class.
Nobody wants a *** class either.Profanity filter is a crime against the freedom of speech. Also gags.1