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Battlegrounds Balance Suggestions
PeaBrainCarl
✭✭
I've been playing Battlegrounds semi-regularly since it moved to the base game with the release of Summerset. I've played a decent amount of PvP in Cyrodiil so I'm not completely new to PvP, just Battlegrounds.
After trying Battlegrounds, there's really no going back to Cyrodiil for me. I've been enjoying Battlegrounds for a few weeks now and it's been a good time. There are things that could use some changes though. Some skills and sets are too strong along with some problems with game modes. I'd like to talk about why I think these things need changed and include possible changes for them.
Note: This is specifically about Battlegounds. No CP, 4v4v4 PvP environment. Also, this is just my list which means it's what I've experienced so it may not cover everything and it's limited to my perspective.
---Monster Sets---
Valkyn Skoria - Nothing really interesting to say about it. It just does too much damage. The proc chance might only be 8%, but any build that's running this procs it fairly regularly. Most builds "could" run this since almost all builds have at least one DoT, and it would still be strong on them. Could lower the damage, but just make it a DoT itself. Make it over 5 seconds to match it's cooldown. I am pretty sure it's blockable, but since it drops from the sky, it's very hard to see coming. Maybe even lower it's damage by about 10-15% and increase the proc chance to 15%. Not sure if that would be a good change, but probably better than it is now.
Earthgore - This set was nerfed to heal over 6 seconds instead of 3, but with the lower amount of people in Battlegrounds compared to Cyrodiil, this often just increases the length of immortality the person it triggers on receives. A possible change for this would be to make the effect trigger earlier but reduce the healing it gives. Have it trigger at 70% hp, but heal for 21k(30% less) instead of 30k(before Battle Spirit), that way it keeps people from reaching execute range but does less healing overall.
Zaan - I don't see this set ran very often, but that doesn't mean it's not extremely strong. The counterplay to this set is to get out of range of it, but the player can simply travel with you. It tends to be either you get out of range and it doesn't do that much, or you get CC'd or outran and it nearly kills you on it's own. Also, if you do manage to get out of range to break the tether, simply by it triggering it forces a break in the fight. That could be an interesting use for the set. Lower it's overall damage by 25%(34.4k down to 25.8k, before Battle Spirit) and make the tether visible but do no damage for the first second, maybe two. That way not only is there more time to react to what's happening, but you can make the decision to keep fighting and take the damage or be forced to back off briefly. It's still very powerful even with the damage nerf and it requires the player using it to commit to the fight to use it.
Selene and Velidreth - Both of these sets are hard hitting, and I very really see Velidreth used. Often times when I'm hit by these though, it feels more like it's my own fault. There's time to see them coming. I don't think they need nerfed, but I do want to include them since other people may feel differently about them. If anything, they would just need their damage lowered. Wouldn't mind seeing them go away along with all proc sets though.
Troll King - This is another set I'm including just because I know it's strong. It's hard to really know how effective it is since I have never used it and you don't exactly see it working on the enemy aside from their health going up. It's (effectively) 7740 healing over 10 seconds, along with whatever healing triggered it. Doesn't have a cooldown either. It seems strong, but like I said, I don't know enough to comment on it.
---5pc Sets---
Sload's Semblance - I know a lot has already been said about this set so I'll try to keep this short. Personally, I'd like to see the set just go away completely. There's at least a few good reasons why this set should be nerfed. The fact that it does the same damage, which can't be mitigated or counterplayed in anyway(aside from purge), no matter how squishy or tanky you build, is a problem. Two problems right there really. It triggers off of everything, which can be a downside, but often isn't is a problem. The amount of damage it does, even if it's over time, is a problem in Battlegrounds where healing is already lessened, along with reduced healing effects, granted that's it's own problem but is related nonetheless. There can be multiple stacks on the same person. It taking people out of cloak, whether intended or not, is a problem. The breaking of Nightblade's stealth isn't bad on it's own, but it's a strong utility that's on a set that is already very strong. I'm just listing the problems with this set since there are other places to go to see in more detail why these are problems. Rather not discuss them here.
A real change that would make it fair would be to just cut the damage down to half, make it so it doesn't stack from multiple people, and make it not break cloak. It's still a lot of free pressure for any tanky builds that look to outlast an opponent. Also, change it's proc to be light and heavy attacks only with a 100% proc chance.
Caluurion's Legacy - I'm only including this set since it's very strong. It's very rare to see this ran in BGs since critical chance is lower there. Still strong and probably needs to not exist in PvP. Not really any suggestion for what to change about it. It's a lot of extra damage that triggers off a critical hit, so the target is already taking a lot of damage.
Curse of Doylemish - This is similar to Caluurion's Legacy, but I've never seen it ran. It does require the user to melee the target with a heavy attack while they are stunned, so it does seem to have a fair amount of requirements for it to trigger. If it is a problem, lower damage or just removing it from PvP seems like the best solution. It is interesting so I'd like to see it just lose damage if it turns out to be a problem.
---Class Skills---
Templar
(In general) - Nothing really stands out for Templars. Sure, Breath of Life is strong, but healing isn't usually a problem in BGs. When it is, it's because one team has a healer and the other(s) don't. Also, it's not always just a single skill that contributes to healing being very strong. Right now no Templar skills make my list, but I could be convinced otherwise.
Dragonknight
Dragon Leap(Ultimate) - Both morphs of this ability are strong. You either get an AoE stun or a damage shield for 100%(before Battle Spirit) of your health. Not only that, but it's at range, and a gap closer. I know most ultimates tend to be somewhat unfair in PvP, but this one comes with a lot of utility. I am a bit on the fence about it, and if it does need to be changed, and though this is not generally a "solution," but raising the cost a bit would probably be enough.
Reflective Scales - This is on the "watch list" just like Curse of Doylemish. It's clearly very strong when you not only stop the damage of the next four ranged attacks against you, but also reflect them back at the enemy. Fighting more than one person makes it less effective, but when combined with a healer, using this ability when you start to get low against one or two ranged opponents makes you nearly unkillable. More of a problem with healers together with this, but not much to be done about that. It's also one of the two abilities, the other being Nightblade's cloak, that you slot an AoE ability to use against it. I don't think it needs nerfed, but there are probably some interesting things that could be done with it if it does end up needing changed at some point. Seems fine for the time being.
Petrify - Don't see this used often, but it's Rune Prison with less range. Clearly not on the same power level as Rune Prison, but it's still a bit of a problem for most of the same reasons. Not sure if it needs to be changed, but it could be interesting to see it become a DoT that stuns when it ends or when it is cleansed. Even with the short range it tends to be very strong since to fight a DK you have to get close if they put up their wings. You are always vulnerable to the instant stun when fighting them.
Sorcerer
(In general) - Sorcerers, MagSorcs really, get a lot of hate because they are just not fun and unfair to play against. You get hit with an unavoidable stun from Rune Prison, then hit with a few light attacks and destro staff abilities, possibly a Crystal Fragments if it procs, which is just RNG, but it's rare to see that skill anymore. You will have a strong DoT placed on you that goes off a second time if you live long enough. If you are low enough after that, you get executed by Mage's Fury with no chance to heal. If you survive, which is based on whether you are tanky enough or not, and manage to fight back, they toss on a shield or two, and if you manage to put enough pressure on them, they just dash away with Bolt Escape. No mystery why people want sorcerers nerfed all of the time. That being said, there's only two skills that I think need to be changed from the "standard" MagSorc. Those being Rune Cage, a Rune Prison morph, and Mage's Fury, either morph.
Rune Prison->Rune Cage - This is a long ranged, on demand(instant), unavoidable stun. At the very least, it should be an undodgeable projectile so you actually see it coming and it takes a moment to take affect. I think a real change to make it balanced would be to make it more like the Nightblade's Manifestation of Terror where you place down traps. This skill is just too strong in it's current form and is probably the most in need of being changed.
Mage's Fury - This skill just shouldn't exist in PvP. I'm not saying take away the Sorcerer's execute ability, but from a balance perspective, being able to put an execute DoT on someone that always goes off at exactly the right time before the enemy will ever have a chance to heal or react to being low is incredibly powerful. Since both morphs do roughly the same thing, one suggestion I have would be to keep one the way it is now, minus the four second linger time and up the damage. Make the other a defensive style morph a bit like Defensive Rune. Up the time to 8 seconds and make it to where when someone who is under the HP threshold attacks you, it triggers and deals the damage to them. Would need to increase the damage a bit for this one too and maybe up the threshold so it triggers a bit earlier. Can always adjust the numbers after seeing how it plays out. Would make it interesting when you and an enemy both get to low health in a fight. Also, it gives them some counterplay to it as well.
Rune Prison->Defensive Rune - This should just trigger on direct damage. It would be both better for the user and better for the enemy. The user wouldn't randomly lose it to some AoE they walk through, and it would still be there for when they actually get focused. From the enemy's side, they wouldn't get randomly stunned some time later from an AoE they dropped ten seconds ago. It also gives them a few options before triggering the stun. Not so much a "too strong" skill, just one that could be better.
Overload(Ultimate) - I'm not really sure how this skill can be changed, but I've been hit with this skill and taken 2k damage and I've also been hit with this skill and taken 10k damage. Doesn't happen often, but it's something that does happen. Not an easy skill to balance for PvP. Again, not sure what to do with it, but it's clearly on my list for good reason.
Hurricane - Not a problem skill, but on the watch list. This skill does a lot and is very strong. It's damage isn't huge, but it is fairly unavoidable. Being able to run faster than the enemy is a huge advantage and it also grants Major Resolve and Major Ward. It makes it possible to stick to the enemy so they also take the damage from it. It makes it impossible for any Nightblade to cloak away from the user as well. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing that it counters cloak, and the skill probably doesn't need to be changed at all. Worth mentioning though.
Nightblade
Death Stroke(Ultimate)->Incapacitating Strike - This skill does too much for it's cost. It could probably just lose the stun and be fine since you already need to be close to use it and Nightblades have Mass Hysteria for close combat CC. I don't really think leaving it the same and increasing the cost is a good idea since it does take away from it's uniqueness as a low cost, singe target ultimate.
Blur - This skill is just RNG based. Sometimes you dodge three of the last five attacks and sometimes you dodge zero. I think a good change for this would be to cause the first attack(that is dodgeable obviously) every 6 seconds to miss and have the skill last for 18 seconds. The same goes for the Medium Armor active skill Shuffle and it's morphs. This change makes it so it's not random, there's counterplay on the enemy's side, and it doesn't completely do nothing sometimes.
Shadow Cloak->Shadowy Disguise - This is clearly a strong skill, but I personally think it's fairly alright. It's countered much the same way the Dragonknight's Reflective Scales is countered: you slot an AoE ability; or Radiant Magelight works too. The change I think needs to be made is that when you break the Nightblade out of stealth with an AoE ability, they shouldn't be able to recast it for 3 seconds similar to interrupting a skill with a cast time.
Warden
Scorch - Much like the Templar, I don't really have anything about Wardens that needs changed(because it's too strong). Scorch, which morphs into Subterranean Assault and Deep Fissure, does a lot of damage and is an AoE attack. It does take some time for it to go off so there's some counterplay with moving out of it's area. It could probably lose some damage if the Warden had more skills to use. Maybe they do have other skills are too strong as well, but I don't see enough Wardens in BGs to really know for sure, and those I do see are mostly using weapon abilities.
---Pets---
(In general) - There needs to be an option to toggle off being able to target pets, of any kind, in BGs. Just a quality of life change. Maybe even make it a keybinding toggle so you can quickly turn it back on if you want to heavy attack a pet for resources.
---Game Modes---
Capture the Relic - This game mode suffers a bit when there's a player that is either very tanky or very fast. Both can be somewhat mitigated, but they are occasionally a problem. Maybe make it so that holding a relic causes the player to take more damage and limit their sprint speed to +50% instead of +100%. This would promote more fighting before the relic is picked up rather than trying to chase someone down that either can't be caught or can't be killed. Overall though, this game mode tends to play out well.
Domination - This is the only game mode I think truly needs help. This game mode is rarely enjoyable. It's often one sided and lacks PvP. Sometimes you face a group that refuses to do anything but run around as solos and avoid any fighting, winning the game with three total kills between the four players. The game mode isn't about getting kills, and I acknowledge that, but at the same time, it is a PvP game mode and it should be more about fighting over the points than hide and seek. Other times you face a group that stays together as four and are nearly unkillable that just go from one point to the next, capping them and moving on. They only stop to fight if someone is on the current point they are standing on, and once they capture it they simply move onto the next point not even bothering to defend the point they just took. It makes sense if you are looking for a higher score for the leader boards, but gameplay wise, it's incredibly boring.
There's a few things that could be done to make this game mode better. One change would be to make capture points give less points for a few ticks when a team first captures them, needing time to ramp up to their full worth. This would make points that you already own more valuable. Also, being at an owned point when it gives points could increase the player's score, and the score gained from it would be relative to the amount of points being gained from the capture point. Another change, though probably less likely to happen, would be to make it so that one of each of the three outer points start in front of the three team's spawns with the center one remaining as it is. After that, make it impossible to take another team's starting capture point without owning the middle one first. Also, you could capture your own back without needing the center. This would be a bit of a scaled down version of Cyrodiil and could even be it's own game mode.
Crazy King - This isn't on the list because it needs to be changed. It's on here because it's a good comparison to Domination. This one starts as a king-of-the-hill and becomes one where the tactics that are annoying in Domination, four unkillable players just capping points or four solos playing hide and seek, becomes fun. Points move over time and more spawn as the game goes on. It's chaotic, and the moving points make it dynamic enough for it to be fun.
Overall, just changing the proc sets Sload's Semblance, Valkyn Skoria, and Zaan's, along with the skills Rune Cage and Petrify, would solve most of the balance issues currently in Battlegrounds.
This last part is just here to show some absurdity. The last thing I was hit with before the enemy died was the Soul Tether. The rest all happened while the player I was fighting was already dead. It's not uncommon to have a death recap like this, but it tends to be when the enemy is still standing.
=====
Edit 1:
Game Modes -> Deathmatch - The damage sigil should be removed from this mode.
(Start of game) - Have players start with either 0(empty) or 500(full) ultimate. I lean towards starting with 0 since it would then actually take time to build up as the fight is just starting. It is possible to always start with full already by building it up outside of the Battlegrounds before even queuing, but it feels more like an unfair advantage or something you are forced to do before the game even starts, which is unlike collecting and upgrading gear or brewing potions.
Edited by PeaBrainCarl on June 27, 2018 7:31PM After trying Battlegrounds, there's really no going back to Cyrodiil for me. I've been enjoying Battlegrounds for a few weeks now and it's been a good time. There are things that could use some changes though. Some skills and sets are too strong along with some problems with game modes. I'd like to talk about why I think these things need changed and include possible changes for them.
Note: This is specifically about Battlegounds. No CP, 4v4v4 PvP environment. Also, this is just my list which means it's what I've experienced so it may not cover everything and it's limited to my perspective.
---Monster Sets---
Valkyn Skoria - Nothing really interesting to say about it. It just does too much damage. The proc chance might only be 8%, but any build that's running this procs it fairly regularly. Most builds "could" run this since almost all builds have at least one DoT, and it would still be strong on them. Could lower the damage, but just make it a DoT itself. Make it over 5 seconds to match it's cooldown. I am pretty sure it's blockable, but since it drops from the sky, it's very hard to see coming. Maybe even lower it's damage by about 10-15% and increase the proc chance to 15%. Not sure if that would be a good change, but probably better than it is now.
Earthgore - This set was nerfed to heal over 6 seconds instead of 3, but with the lower amount of people in Battlegrounds compared to Cyrodiil, this often just increases the length of immortality the person it triggers on receives. A possible change for this would be to make the effect trigger earlier but reduce the healing it gives. Have it trigger at 70% hp, but heal for 21k(30% less) instead of 30k(before Battle Spirit), that way it keeps people from reaching execute range but does less healing overall.
Zaan - I don't see this set ran very often, but that doesn't mean it's not extremely strong. The counterplay to this set is to get out of range of it, but the player can simply travel with you. It tends to be either you get out of range and it doesn't do that much, or you get CC'd or outran and it nearly kills you on it's own. Also, if you do manage to get out of range to break the tether, simply by it triggering it forces a break in the fight. That could be an interesting use for the set. Lower it's overall damage by 25%(34.4k down to 25.8k, before Battle Spirit) and make the tether visible but do no damage for the first second, maybe two. That way not only is there more time to react to what's happening, but you can make the decision to keep fighting and take the damage or be forced to back off briefly. It's still very powerful even with the damage nerf and it requires the player using it to commit to the fight to use it.
Selene and Velidreth - Both of these sets are hard hitting, and I very really see Velidreth used. Often times when I'm hit by these though, it feels more like it's my own fault. There's time to see them coming. I don't think they need nerfed, but I do want to include them since other people may feel differently about them. If anything, they would just need their damage lowered. Wouldn't mind seeing them go away along with all proc sets though.
Troll King - This is another set I'm including just because I know it's strong. It's hard to really know how effective it is since I have never used it and you don't exactly see it working on the enemy aside from their health going up. It's (effectively) 7740 healing over 10 seconds, along with whatever healing triggered it. Doesn't have a cooldown either. It seems strong, but like I said, I don't know enough to comment on it.
---5pc Sets---
Sload's Semblance - I know a lot has already been said about this set so I'll try to keep this short. Personally, I'd like to see the set just go away completely. There's at least a few good reasons why this set should be nerfed. The fact that it does the same damage, which can't be mitigated or counterplayed in anyway(aside from purge), no matter how squishy or tanky you build, is a problem. Two problems right there really. It triggers off of everything, which can be a downside, but often isn't is a problem. The amount of damage it does, even if it's over time, is a problem in Battlegrounds where healing is already lessened, along with reduced healing effects, granted that's it's own problem but is related nonetheless. There can be multiple stacks on the same person. It taking people out of cloak, whether intended or not, is a problem. The breaking of Nightblade's stealth isn't bad on it's own, but it's a strong utility that's on a set that is already very strong. I'm just listing the problems with this set since there are other places to go to see in more detail why these are problems. Rather not discuss them here.
A real change that would make it fair would be to just cut the damage down to half, make it so it doesn't stack from multiple people, and make it not break cloak. It's still a lot of free pressure for any tanky builds that look to outlast an opponent. Also, change it's proc to be light and heavy attacks only with a 100% proc chance.
Caluurion's Legacy - I'm only including this set since it's very strong. It's very rare to see this ran in BGs since critical chance is lower there. Still strong and probably needs to not exist in PvP. Not really any suggestion for what to change about it. It's a lot of extra damage that triggers off a critical hit, so the target is already taking a lot of damage.
Curse of Doylemish - This is similar to Caluurion's Legacy, but I've never seen it ran. It does require the user to melee the target with a heavy attack while they are stunned, so it does seem to have a fair amount of requirements for it to trigger. If it is a problem, lower damage or just removing it from PvP seems like the best solution. It is interesting so I'd like to see it just lose damage if it turns out to be a problem.
---Class Skills---
Templar
(In general) - Nothing really stands out for Templars. Sure, Breath of Life is strong, but healing isn't usually a problem in BGs. When it is, it's because one team has a healer and the other(s) don't. Also, it's not always just a single skill that contributes to healing being very strong. Right now no Templar skills make my list, but I could be convinced otherwise.
Dragonknight
Dragon Leap(Ultimate) - Both morphs of this ability are strong. You either get an AoE stun or a damage shield for 100%(before Battle Spirit) of your health. Not only that, but it's at range, and a gap closer. I know most ultimates tend to be somewhat unfair in PvP, but this one comes with a lot of utility. I am a bit on the fence about it, and if it does need to be changed, and though this is not generally a "solution," but raising the cost a bit would probably be enough.
Reflective Scales - This is on the "watch list" just like Curse of Doylemish. It's clearly very strong when you not only stop the damage of the next four ranged attacks against you, but also reflect them back at the enemy. Fighting more than one person makes it less effective, but when combined with a healer, using this ability when you start to get low against one or two ranged opponents makes you nearly unkillable. More of a problem with healers together with this, but not much to be done about that. It's also one of the two abilities, the other being Nightblade's cloak, that you slot an AoE ability to use against it. I don't think it needs nerfed, but there are probably some interesting things that could be done with it if it does end up needing changed at some point. Seems fine for the time being.
Petrify - Don't see this used often, but it's Rune Prison with less range. Clearly not on the same power level as Rune Prison, but it's still a bit of a problem for most of the same reasons. Not sure if it needs to be changed, but it could be interesting to see it become a DoT that stuns when it ends or when it is cleansed. Even with the short range it tends to be very strong since to fight a DK you have to get close if they put up their wings. You are always vulnerable to the instant stun when fighting them.
Sorcerer
(In general) - Sorcerers, MagSorcs really, get a lot of hate because they are just not fun and unfair to play against. You get hit with an unavoidable stun from Rune Prison, then hit with a few light attacks and destro staff abilities, possibly a Crystal Fragments if it procs, which is just RNG, but it's rare to see that skill anymore. You will have a strong DoT placed on you that goes off a second time if you live long enough. If you are low enough after that, you get executed by Mage's Fury with no chance to heal. If you survive, which is based on whether you are tanky enough or not, and manage to fight back, they toss on a shield or two, and if you manage to put enough pressure on them, they just dash away with Bolt Escape. No mystery why people want sorcerers nerfed all of the time. That being said, there's only two skills that I think need to be changed from the "standard" MagSorc. Those being Rune Cage, a Rune Prison morph, and Mage's Fury, either morph.
Rune Prison->Rune Cage - This is a long ranged, on demand(instant), unavoidable stun. At the very least, it should be an undodgeable projectile so you actually see it coming and it takes a moment to take affect. I think a real change to make it balanced would be to make it more like the Nightblade's Manifestation of Terror where you place down traps. This skill is just too strong in it's current form and is probably the most in need of being changed.
Mage's Fury - This skill just shouldn't exist in PvP. I'm not saying take away the Sorcerer's execute ability, but from a balance perspective, being able to put an execute DoT on someone that always goes off at exactly the right time before the enemy will ever have a chance to heal or react to being low is incredibly powerful. Since both morphs do roughly the same thing, one suggestion I have would be to keep one the way it is now, minus the four second linger time and up the damage. Make the other a defensive style morph a bit like Defensive Rune. Up the time to 8 seconds and make it to where when someone who is under the HP threshold attacks you, it triggers and deals the damage to them. Would need to increase the damage a bit for this one too and maybe up the threshold so it triggers a bit earlier. Can always adjust the numbers after seeing how it plays out. Would make it interesting when you and an enemy both get to low health in a fight. Also, it gives them some counterplay to it as well.
Rune Prison->Defensive Rune - This should just trigger on direct damage. It would be both better for the user and better for the enemy. The user wouldn't randomly lose it to some AoE they walk through, and it would still be there for when they actually get focused. From the enemy's side, they wouldn't get randomly stunned some time later from an AoE they dropped ten seconds ago. It also gives them a few options before triggering the stun. Not so much a "too strong" skill, just one that could be better.
Overload(Ultimate) - I'm not really sure how this skill can be changed, but I've been hit with this skill and taken 2k damage and I've also been hit with this skill and taken 10k damage. Doesn't happen often, but it's something that does happen. Not an easy skill to balance for PvP. Again, not sure what to do with it, but it's clearly on my list for good reason.
Hurricane - Not a problem skill, but on the watch list. This skill does a lot and is very strong. It's damage isn't huge, but it is fairly unavoidable. Being able to run faster than the enemy is a huge advantage and it also grants Major Resolve and Major Ward. It makes it possible to stick to the enemy so they also take the damage from it. It makes it impossible for any Nightblade to cloak away from the user as well. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing that it counters cloak, and the skill probably doesn't need to be changed at all. Worth mentioning though.
Nightblade
Death Stroke(Ultimate)->Incapacitating Strike - This skill does too much for it's cost. It could probably just lose the stun and be fine since you already need to be close to use it and Nightblades have Mass Hysteria for close combat CC. I don't really think leaving it the same and increasing the cost is a good idea since it does take away from it's uniqueness as a low cost, singe target ultimate.
Blur - This skill is just RNG based. Sometimes you dodge three of the last five attacks and sometimes you dodge zero. I think a good change for this would be to cause the first attack(that is dodgeable obviously) every 6 seconds to miss and have the skill last for 18 seconds. The same goes for the Medium Armor active skill Shuffle and it's morphs. This change makes it so it's not random, there's counterplay on the enemy's side, and it doesn't completely do nothing sometimes.
Shadow Cloak->Shadowy Disguise - This is clearly a strong skill, but I personally think it's fairly alright. It's countered much the same way the Dragonknight's Reflective Scales is countered: you slot an AoE ability; or Radiant Magelight works too. The change I think needs to be made is that when you break the Nightblade out of stealth with an AoE ability, they shouldn't be able to recast it for 3 seconds similar to interrupting a skill with a cast time.
Warden
Scorch - Much like the Templar, I don't really have anything about Wardens that needs changed(because it's too strong). Scorch, which morphs into Subterranean Assault and Deep Fissure, does a lot of damage and is an AoE attack. It does take some time for it to go off so there's some counterplay with moving out of it's area. It could probably lose some damage if the Warden had more skills to use. Maybe they do have other skills are too strong as well, but I don't see enough Wardens in BGs to really know for sure, and those I do see are mostly using weapon abilities.
---Pets---
(In general) - There needs to be an option to toggle off being able to target pets, of any kind, in BGs. Just a quality of life change. Maybe even make it a keybinding toggle so you can quickly turn it back on if you want to heavy attack a pet for resources.
---Game Modes---
Capture the Relic - This game mode suffers a bit when there's a player that is either very tanky or very fast. Both can be somewhat mitigated, but they are occasionally a problem. Maybe make it so that holding a relic causes the player to take more damage and limit their sprint speed to +50% instead of +100%. This would promote more fighting before the relic is picked up rather than trying to chase someone down that either can't be caught or can't be killed. Overall though, this game mode tends to play out well.
Domination - This is the only game mode I think truly needs help. This game mode is rarely enjoyable. It's often one sided and lacks PvP. Sometimes you face a group that refuses to do anything but run around as solos and avoid any fighting, winning the game with three total kills between the four players. The game mode isn't about getting kills, and I acknowledge that, but at the same time, it is a PvP game mode and it should be more about fighting over the points than hide and seek. Other times you face a group that stays together as four and are nearly unkillable that just go from one point to the next, capping them and moving on. They only stop to fight if someone is on the current point they are standing on, and once they capture it they simply move onto the next point not even bothering to defend the point they just took. It makes sense if you are looking for a higher score for the leader boards, but gameplay wise, it's incredibly boring.
There's a few things that could be done to make this game mode better. One change would be to make capture points give less points for a few ticks when a team first captures them, needing time to ramp up to their full worth. This would make points that you already own more valuable. Also, being at an owned point when it gives points could increase the player's score, and the score gained from it would be relative to the amount of points being gained from the capture point. Another change, though probably less likely to happen, would be to make it so that one of each of the three outer points start in front of the three team's spawns with the center one remaining as it is. After that, make it impossible to take another team's starting capture point without owning the middle one first. Also, you could capture your own back without needing the center. This would be a bit of a scaled down version of Cyrodiil and could even be it's own game mode.
Crazy King - This isn't on the list because it needs to be changed. It's on here because it's a good comparison to Domination. This one starts as a king-of-the-hill and becomes one where the tactics that are annoying in Domination, four unkillable players just capping points or four solos playing hide and seek, becomes fun. Points move over time and more spawn as the game goes on. It's chaotic, and the moving points make it dynamic enough for it to be fun.
Overall, just changing the proc sets Sload's Semblance, Valkyn Skoria, and Zaan's, along with the skills Rune Cage and Petrify, would solve most of the balance issues currently in Battlegrounds.
This last part is just here to show some absurdity. The last thing I was hit with before the enemy died was the Soul Tether. The rest all happened while the player I was fighting was already dead. It's not uncommon to have a death recap like this, but it tends to be when the enemy is still standing.
=====
Edit 1:
Game Modes -> Deathmatch - The damage sigil should be removed from this mode.
(Start of game) - Have players start with either 0(empty) or 500(full) ultimate. I lean towards starting with 0 since it would then actually take time to build up as the fight is just starting. It is possible to always start with full already by building it up outside of the Battlegrounds before even queuing, but it feels more like an unfair advantage or something you are forced to do before the game even starts, which is unlike collecting and upgrading gear or brewing potions.
1
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Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TLDR nerf everything. The only part I can really agree with in this fully is that proc damage is way over strong in BGs. Completely out of control. Troll king is necessary for most stam builds at this time because of all the dots, bleeds, sloads etc. If that aspect is balanced ever, then most people will choose to run a more beneficial set anyways.7 -
cpuScientist✭✭✭✭✭
✭Get rid of the damage sigil in death match. Very rarely is it used by a weak team to catch up. It usually the strong teams that use it. Too many times it is decided by that. And furthermore you used to k oe if someone had the sigil they would have a red circle around them and you could try to avoid them. Now no counterplay you just left Wondering WTF happened. It really kills the mode for me, many polls on forums and just asking in general to friends want it removed. Deathmatch is nearly perfect but please get rid of this. It is mildly entertaining when I get it sure but daaaaaamn having a gamemode be decided by that sigil really sucks. And last about that many players seem to know EXACTLY where and when it's going to spawn. Many times I have been grouped with certain players and they leave and run standing on a spot in stealth and when I get there a few seconds later here's a sigil. And when I ask how did they k kw I get out on ignore.
Also your thoughts on a new DOMINATION playstyle I must say I LOVE it. Crazy king is a more enjoyable version of current domination. And chaos ball is very fun if I'm on the right toon or am playing with the right friends lol.0 -
Lichbourne90✭✭✭With the current state of pvp I don't even wanna here about a nerf to troll king.... there is way to much going on in the way of burst, defiles, and proc sets to even consider it..0 -
ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭General BGs: I'd change the way kills are calculated. I'd also halve all external (non self) healing because holy *** heal stacking is overtuned, especially in premades. BGs are meant to be fast paced. This is everything but that. Adjust achievements as necessary
Sets: Obvious OTT problems like sloads, SB, etc need a straight nerfs. The monster sets need a little different. Zaan 1s tether prior to damage, and breaking on LOS is needed. Valkyn could use an orange meteor like indicator, but pretty eh damage wise. Earthgore would have its heal as is, but reduced to 3s, and restore the AoE purges per tick.
Skills: Nerf rune cage, *** is massively OP to the point of hilarity. Reduce cost of breakfree, way too much now, and with a smaller field where LOS is taxing, being stunned is so common.Edited by ak_pvp on June 27, 2018 1:08PMMagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.3 -
ChunkyCat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭PeaBrainCarl wrote: »
NERF errr’body.
You strike me as someone who has been tea bagged one too many times.Edited by ChunkyCat on June 27, 2018 1:30PM0 -
PeaBrainCarl✭✭TLDR nerf everything. The only part I can really agree with in this fully is that proc damage is way over strong in BGs. Completely out of control. Troll king is necessary for most stam builds at this time because of all the dots, bleeds, sloads etc. If that aspect is balanced ever, then most people will choose to run a more beneficial set anyways.
The list of things I'd like to see buffed is far greater than what I think needs nerfed, but those are unlikely to be changed because they aren't causing any problems. Put bluntly, the people running the company, and this is true for a lot of them, care less about the things in the game, such as balance, as the people playing the game. Problems get fixed. Requests get evaluated. I'd at least like to take out some of the things that are problems.
I agree with the solution, as if it was a problem, to people running Troll King is to make it possible for them to run other things. It should still be considered if the things it's currently being ran to mitigate get changed. For instance, if skills were all about even at, let's just say, 5, but there's a skill that is a 9 that people are using and a skill that is a 7 that people are using to counter the skill that's a 9, once the 9 is balanced to be a 5, the skill that's a 7 is now a problem. I'm not saying this is the case for Troll King, but it could be and it should remain on the watch list.cpuScientist wrote: »Get rid of the damage sigil in death match. Very rarely is it used by a weak team to catch up. It usually the strong teams that use it.
I forgot about that. That should definitely be removed. I'm not sure if something else should be added just to "spice up" DM a bit, but the sigil isn't doing that game mode any favors.0 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It's a thoughtful post, but it just nerf this, nerf that, more nerfs needed here, a nerf there, etc.2 -
PeaBrainCarl✭✭You strike me as someone who has been tea bagged one too many times.
I'm not unaccustomed to that or the occasional angry or gloating whisper. Can't really change what people will do, especially over the internet. That's more of a problem with individuals, humanity as a whole, and competitive things in general. If they want to do that, that's fine. You can block whispers if it's that bad. I'm just saying that while I'm laying there being their unwilling victim, I'd like Battlegrounds to be balanced at the time.
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exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Just a heads up, crit chance is unaffected by CP. Only critical damage modifiers.0 -
Danksta✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭exeeter702 wrote: »Just a heads up, crit chance is unaffected by CP. Only critical damage modifiers.
Except for the extra 12% crit chance you get...BawKinTackWarDs PS4/NA0 -
PeaBrainCarl✭✭exeeter702 wrote: »Just a heads up, crit chance is unaffected by CP. Only critical damage modifiers.
That's not true. You lose 12% from both weapon and spell crit that you can have from having 30 points in The Apprentice(spell crit, Spell Precision passive) and from having 30 points in The Ritual(weapon crit, Perfect Strike passive).
Also, as you mentioned, you lose out on a lot of critical damage so you are disincentivized to run sets that grant crit chance. It means there's less criticals happening in non-CP PvP such as Battlegrounds.0 -
Hutch679✭✭✭✭✭
✭Wtf did I just read? Did you really say wardens have abilities that are too strong? Uh make sure you put stam in that sentence lol. Mag warden is garbage that's why you dont see them. They can't nerf deep fissure or you will never see a mag warden again.0 -
PeaBrainCarl✭✭Wtf did I just read? Did you really say wardens have abilities that are too strong? Uh make sure you put stam in that sentence lol. Mag warden is garbage that's why you dont see them. They can't nerf deep fissure or you will never see a mag warden again.
What you are saying is exactly what I said about Wardens. Sorry if I phrased it poorly, but I am implying they don't have strong skills that need changed, but they do have skills that need changed, and that's because those skills are too weak. I'm addressing the things that could be toned down or removed. Once there isn't multiple things that are throwing off the balance of the game, it would then become beneficial to talk about buffing sets and skills to make more things viable. The list of those things is so long, however, that each category would need it's own thread.
When I said Deep Fissure could lose some damage, it's because it's a skill that has a delay. This is a drawback for obvious reasons, but it also creates the possibly of combining it with other skills for high burst damage. As far as their other skills, since they aren't being used much, or at all, I haven't encountered them to know if they could be problems as well. As you mentioned, it's highly likely they are terrible skills in their current condition, but since I haven't played one and most people aren't playing them either, there's missing information there and that's what I'm acknowledging.0 -
cpuScientist✭✭✭✭✭
✭Delete the offense sigil, death match is spicy enough as is. That sigil really ruins the experience. Most want it gone. And people can cheat and get it every time. It really sucks to have a mostly funeral even match be turned sideways by some RNG. If they MUST have sigils. Make them weaker. 20% more damage. Or 50% more but also take 50% more damage. Sigil that gives you 20 second of big ulti gen. Or just general health sigils to buff health a little. Or mag or Stam whatever. Give you major buff.
But in truth just got rid of the damn thing. Nothing else needed.0 -
Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Nerf Valkyn Skoria??
... and once again, PvE would get nuked because of PvP crying.
All of this, on a set with massively visible proc, 1.6k DPS in PvE (I guess less in PvP) and that all you need to avoid its damage is to step 2 meters aside!
I am sure one day I am going to see someone proposing to nerf walking, because it's way overperforming!Edited by Vahrokh on June 28, 2018 8:27AMVaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
Trials addict, soloer extraordinaire!
Here are my Elder Scrolls Online videos
Here is the Sorcerer Helper addon I have updated to work on current ESO0 -
Lord_Eomer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭PeaBrainCarl wrote: »I've been playing Battlegrounds semi-regularly since it moved to the base game with the release of Summerset. I've played a decent amount of PvP in Cyrodiil so I'm not completely new to PvP, just Battlegrounds.
After trying Battlegrounds, there's really no going back to Cyrodiil for me. I've been enjoying Battlegrounds for a few weeks now and it's been a good time. There are things that could use some changes though. Some skills and sets are too strong along with some problems with game modes. I'd like to talk about why I think these things need changed and include possible changes for them.
Note: This is specifically about Battlegounds. No CP, 4v4v4 PvP environment. Also, this is just my list which means it's what I've experienced so it may not cover everything and it's limited to my perspective.
---Monster Sets---
Valkyn Skoria - Nothing really interesting to say about it. It just does too much damage. The proc chance might only be 8%, but any build that's running this procs it fairly regularly. Most builds "could" run this since almost all builds have at least one DoT, and it would still be strong on them. Could lower the damage, but just make it a DoT itself. Make it over 5 seconds to match it's cooldown. I am pretty sure it's blockable, but since it drops from the sky, it's very hard to see coming. Maybe even lower it's damage by about 10-15% and increase the proc chance to 15%. Not sure if that would be a good change, but probably better than it is now.
Earthgore - This set was nerfed to heal over 6 seconds instead of 3, but with the lower amount of people in Battlegrounds compared to Cyrodiil, this often just increases the length of immortality the person it triggers on receives. A possible change for this would be to make the effect trigger earlier but reduce the healing it gives. Have it trigger at 70% hp, but heal for 21k(30% less) instead of 30k(before Battle Spirit), that way it keeps people from reaching execute range but does less healing overall.
Zaan - I don't see this set ran very often, but that doesn't mean it's not extremely strong. The counterplay to this set is to get out of range of it, but the player can simply travel with you. It tends to be either you get out of range and it doesn't do that much, or you get CC'd or outran and it nearly kills you on it's own. Also, if you do manage to get out of range to break the tether, simply by it triggering it forces a break in the fight. That could be an interesting use for the set. Lower it's overall damage by 25%(34.4k down to 25.8k, before Battle Spirit) and make the tether visible but do no damage for the first second, maybe two. That way not only is there more time to react to what's happening, but you can make the decision to keep fighting and take the damage or be forced to back off briefly. It's still very powerful even with the damage nerf and it requires the player using it to commit to the fight to use it.
Selene and Velidreth - Both of these sets are hard hitting, and I very really see Velidreth used. Often times when I'm hit by these though, it feels more like it's my own fault. There's time to see them coming. I don't think they need nerfed, but I do want to include them since other people may feel differently about them. If anything, they would just need their damage lowered. Wouldn't mind seeing them go away along with all proc sets though.
Troll King - This is another set I'm including just because I know it's strong. It's hard to really know how effective it is since I have never used it and you don't exactly see it working on the enemy aside from their health going up. It's (effectively) 7740 healing over 10 seconds, along with whatever healing triggered it. Doesn't have a cooldown either. It seems strong, but like I said, I don't know enough to comment on it.
---5pc Sets---
Sload's Semblance - I know a lot has already been said about this set so I'll try to keep this short. Personally, I'd like to see the set just go away completely. There's at least a few good reasons why this set should be nerfed. The fact that it does the same damage, which can't be mitigated or counterplayed in anyway(aside from purge), no matter how squishy or tanky you build, is a problem. Two problems right there really. It triggers off of everything, which can be a downside, but often isn't is a problem. The amount of damage it does, even if it's over time, is a problem in Battlegrounds where healing is already lessened, along with reduced healing effects, granted that's it's own problem but is related nonetheless. There can be multiple stacks on the same person. It taking people out of cloak, whether intended or not, is a problem. The breaking of Nightblade's stealth isn't bad on it's own, but it's a strong utility that's on a set that is already very strong. I'm just listing the problems with this set since there are other places to go to see in more detail why these are problems. Rather not discuss them here.
A real change that would make it fair would be to just cut the damage down to half, make it so it doesn't stack from multiple people, and make it not break cloak. It's still a lot of free pressure for any tanky builds that look to outlast an opponent. Also, change it's proc to be light and heavy attacks only with a 100% proc chance.
Caluurion's Legacy - I'm only including this set since it's very strong. It's very rare to see this ran in BGs since critical chance is lower there. Still strong and probably needs to not exist in PvP. Not really any suggestion for what to change about it. It's a lot of extra damage that triggers off a critical hit, so the target is already taking a lot of damage.
Curse of Doylemish - This is similar to Caluurion's Legacy, but I've never seen it ran. It does require the user to melee the target with a heavy attack while they are stunned, so it does seem to have a fair amount of requirements for it to trigger. If it is a problem, lower damage or just removing it from PvP seems like the best solution. It is interesting so I'd like to see it just lose damage if it turns out to be a problem.
---Class Skills---
Templar
(In general) - Nothing really stands out for Templars. Sure, Breath of Life is strong, but healing isn't usually a problem in BGs. When it is, it's because one team has a healer and the other(s) don't. Also, it's not always just a single skill that contributes to healing being very strong. Right now no Templar skills make my list, but I could be convinced otherwise.
Dragonknight
Dragon Leap(Ultimate) - Both morphs of this ability are strong. You either get an AoE stun or a damage shield for 100%(before Battle Spirit) of your health. Not only that, but it's at range, and a gap closer. I know most ultimates tend to be somewhat unfair in PvP, but this one comes with a lot of utility. I am a bit on the fence about it, and if it does need to be changed, and though this is not generally a "solution," but raising the cost a bit would probably be enough.
Reflective Scales - This is on the "watch list" just like Curse of Doylemish. It's clearly very strong when you not only stop the damage of the next four ranged attacks against you, but also reflect them back at the enemy. Fighting more than one person makes it less effective, but when combined with a healer, using this ability when you start to get low against one or two ranged opponents makes you nearly unkillable. More of a problem with healers together with this, but not much to be done about that. It's also one of the two abilities, the other being Nightblade's cloak, that you slot an AoE ability to use against it. I don't think it needs nerfed, but there are probably some interesting things that could be done with it if it does end up needing changed at some point. Seems fine for the time being.
Petrify - Don't see this used often, but it's Rune Prison with less range. Clearly not on the same power level as Rune Prison, but it's still a bit of a problem for most of the same reasons. Not sure if it needs to be changed, but it could be interesting to see it become a DoT that stuns when it ends or when it is cleansed. Even with the short range it tends to be very strong since to fight a DK you have to get close if they put up their wings. You are always vulnerable to the instant stun when fighting them.
Sorcerer
(In general) - Sorcerers, MagSorcs really, get a lot of hate because they are just not fun and unfair to play against. You get hit with an unavoidable stun from Rune Prison, then hit with a few light attacks and destro staff abilities, possibly a Crystal Fragments if it procs, which is just RNG, but it's rare to see that skill anymore. You will have a strong DoT placed on you that goes off a second time if you live long enough. If you are low enough after that, you get executed by Mage's Fury with no chance to heal. If you survive, which is based on whether you are tanky enough or not, and manage to fight back, they toss on a shield or two, and if you manage to put enough pressure on them, they just dash away with Bolt Escape. No mystery why people want sorcerers nerfed all of the time. That being said, there's only two skills that I think need to be changed from the "standard" MagSorc. Those being Rune Cage, a Rune Prison morph, and Mage's Fury, either morph.
Rune Prison->Rune Cage - This is a long ranged, on demand(instant), unavoidable stun. At the very least, it should be an undodgeable projectile so you actually see it coming and it takes a moment to take affect. I think a real change to make it balanced would be to make it more like the Nightblade's Manifestation of Terror where you place down traps. This skill is just too strong in it's current form and is probably the most in need of being changed.
Mage's Fury - This skill just shouldn't exist in PvP. I'm not saying take away the Sorcerer's execute ability, but from a balance perspective, being able to put an execute DoT on someone that always goes off at exactly the right time before the enemy will ever have a chance to heal or react to being low is incredibly powerful. Since both morphs do roughly the same thing, one suggestion I have would be to keep one the way it is now, minus the four second linger time and up the damage. Make the other a defensive style morph a bit like Defensive Rune. Up the time to 8 seconds and make it to where when someone who is under the HP threshold attacks you, it triggers and deals the damage to them. Would need to increase the damage a bit for this one too and maybe up the threshold so it triggers a bit earlier. Can always adjust the numbers after seeing how it plays out. Would make it interesting when you and an enemy both get to low health in a fight. Also, it gives them some counterplay to it as well.
Rune Prison->Defensive Rune - This should just trigger on direct damage. It would be both better for the user and better for the enemy. The user wouldn't randomly lose it to some AoE they walk through, and it would still be there for when they actually get focused. From the enemy's side, they wouldn't get randomly stunned some time later from an AoE they dropped ten seconds ago. It also gives them a few options before triggering the stun. Not so much a "too strong" skill, just one that could be better.
Overload(Ultimate) - I'm not really sure how this skill can be changed, but I've been hit with this skill and taken 2k damage and I've also been hit with this skill and taken 10k damage. Doesn't happen often, but it's something that does happen. Not an easy skill to balance for PvP. Again, not sure what to do with it, but it's clearly on my list for good reason.
Hurricane - Not a problem skill, but on the watch list. This skill does a lot and is very strong. It's damage isn't huge, but it is fairly unavoidable. Being able to run faster than the enemy is a huge advantage and it also grants Major Resolve and Major Ward. It makes it possible to stick to the enemy so they also take the damage from it. It makes it impossible for any Nightblade to cloak away from the user as well. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing that it counters cloak, and the skill probably doesn't need to be changed at all. Worth mentioning though.
Nightblade
Death Stroke(Ultimate)->Incapacitating Strike - This skill does too much for it's cost. It could probably just lose the stun and be fine since you already need to be close to use it and Nightblades have Mass Hysteria for close combat CC. I don't really think leaving it the same and increasing the cost is a good idea since it does take away from it's uniqueness as a low cost, singe target ultimate.
Blur - This skill is just RNG based. Sometimes you dodge three of the last five attacks and sometimes you dodge zero. I think a good change for this would be to cause the first attack(that is dodgeable obviously) every 6 seconds to miss and have the skill last for 18 seconds. The same goes for the Medium Armor active skill Shuffle and it's morphs. This change makes it so it's not random, there's counterplay on the enemy's side, and it doesn't completely do nothing sometimes.
Shadow Cloak->Shadowy Disguise - This is clearly a strong skill, but I personally think it's fairly alright. It's countered much the same way the Dragonknight's Reflective Scales is countered: you slot an AoE ability; or Radiant Magelight works too. The change I think needs to be made is that when you break the Nightblade out of stealth with an AoE ability, they shouldn't be able to recast it for 3 seconds similar to interrupting a skill with a cast time.
Warden
Scorch - Much like the Templar, I don't really have anything about Wardens that needs changed(because it's too strong). Scorch, which morphs into Subterranean Assault and Deep Fissure, does a lot of damage and is an AoE attack. It does take some time for it to go off so there's some counterplay with moving out of it's area. It could probably lose some damage if the Warden had more skills to use. Maybe they do have other skills are too strong as well, but I don't see enough Wardens in BGs to really know for sure, and those I do see are mostly using weapon abilities.
---Pets---
(In general) - There needs to be an option to toggle off being able to target pets, of any kind, in BGs. Just a quality of life change. Maybe even make it a keybinding toggle so you can quickly turn it back on if you want to heavy attack a pet for resources.
---Game Modes---
Capture the Relic - This game mode suffers a bit when there's a player that is either very tanky or very fast. Both can be somewhat mitigated, but they are occasionally a problem. Maybe make it so that holding a relic causes the player to take more damage and limit their sprint speed to +50% instead of +100%. This would promote more fighting before the relic is picked up rather than trying to chase someone down that either can't be caught or can't be killed. Overall though, this game mode tends to play out well.
Domination - This is the only game mode I think truly needs help. This game mode is rarely enjoyable. It's often one sided and lacks PvP. Sometimes you face a group that refuses to do anything but run around as solos and avoid any fighting, winning the game with three total kills between the four players. The game mode isn't about getting kills, and I acknowledge that, but at the same time, it is a PvP game mode and it should be more about fighting over the points than hide and seek. Other times you face a group that stays together as four and are nearly unkillable that just go from one point to the next, capping them and moving on. They only stop to fight if someone is on the current point they are standing on, and once they capture it they simply move onto the next point not even bothering to defend the point they just took. It makes sense if you are looking for a higher score for the leader boards, but gameplay wise, it's incredibly boring.
There's a few things that could be done to make this game mode better. One change would be to make capture points give less points for a few ticks when a team first captures them, needing time to ramp up to their full worth. This would make points that you already own more valuable. Also, being at an owned point when it gives points could increase the player's score, and the score gained from it would be relative to the amount of points being gained from the capture point. Another change, though probably less likely to happen, would be to make it so that one of each of the three outer points start in front of the three team's spawns with the center one remaining as it is. After that, make it impossible to take another team's starting capture point without owning the middle one first. Also, you could capture your own back without needing the center. This would be a bit of a scaled down version of Cyrodiil and could even be it's own game mode.
Crazy King - This isn't on the list because it needs to be changed. It's on here because it's a good comparison to Domination. This one starts as a king-of-the-hill and becomes one where the tactics that are annoying in Domination, four unkillable players just capping points or four solos playing hide and seek, becomes fun. Points move over time and more spawn as the game goes on. It's chaotic, and the moving points make it dynamic enough for it to be fun.
Overall, just changing the proc sets Sload's Semblance, Valkyn Skoria, and Zaan's, along with the skills Rune Cage and Petrify, would solve most of the balance issues currently in Battlegrounds.
This last part is just here to show some absurdity. The last thing I was hit with before the enemy died was the Soul Tether. The rest all happened while the player I was fighting was already dead. It's not uncommon to have a death recap like this, but it tends to be when the enemy is still standing.
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Edit 1:
Game Modes -> Deathmatch - The damage sigil should be removed from this mode.
(Start of game) - Have players start with either 0(empty) or 500(full) ultimate. I lean towards starting with 0 since it would then actually take time to build up as the fight is just starting. It is possible to always start with full already by building it up outside of the Battlegrounds before even queuing, but it feels more like an unfair advantage or something you are forced to do before the game even starts, which is unlike collecting and upgrading gear or brewing potions.
I do not agree with most of nerfs except Rune Cage and Petrify!
Solad's and Zaan might need some adjustment too.
You can just suggest to nerf down everything!0 -
PeaBrainCarl wrote: »(Start of game) - Have players start with either 0(empty) or 500(full) ultimate. I lean towards starting with 0 since it would then actually take time to build up as the fight is just starting. It is possible to always start with full already by building it up outside of the Battlegrounds before even queuing, but it feels more like an unfair advantage or something you are forced to do before the game even starts, which is unlike collecting and upgrading gear or brewing potions.
...This is a joke, right?
But seriously, this is a non-issue. Collecting ult takes exactly 1 minute to do, and if someone did that before queuing, good for them. You can too.
Most of your points don't take other aspects of the game into consideration. Your suggestion to nerf everything would absolutely destroy balance in Cyrodiil, and in PvE content. I agree that Sload procs should not stack from multiple attackers, and that Rune Cage is stupid overpowered (at least shorten the range, ZOS! Those sorcs won't talk so tough when they're in whip range...) but other than that, I disagree with everything else. I don't believe a game should be balanced around a niche game mode, and I'd hardly consider these changes to be "balancing" at that. More like just blanket weakening.1 -
D0ntevenL1ft✭✭✭✭✭PeaBrainCarl wrote: »
(Start of game) - Have players start with either 0(empty) or 500(full) ultimate. I lean towards starting with 0 since it would then actually take time to build up as the fight is just starting. It is possible to always start with full already by building it up outside of the Battlegrounds before even queuing, but it feels more like an unfair advantage or something you are forced to do before the game even starts, which is unlike collecting and upgrading gear or brewing potions.
I picture 12 destro ults colliding in the middle 5 seconds into the match
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PeaBrainCarl✭✭Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »PeaBrainCarl wrote: »(Start of game) - Have players start with either 0(empty) or 500(full) ultimate. I lean towards starting with 0 since it would then actually take time to build up as the fight is just starting. It is possible to always start with full already by building it up outside of the Battlegrounds before even queuing, but it feels more like an unfair advantage or something you are forced to do before the game even starts, which is unlike collecting and upgrading gear or brewing potions.
...This is a joke, right?
But seriously, this is a non-issue. Collecting ult takes exactly 1 minute to do, and if someone did that before queuing, good for them. You can too.
No, it's not a joke. There are two aspects to this. The first being that "ideally", as soon as you get out of one BG and queue for another, there is no wait time and you enter the next one immediately. This is often not the case, and it would be on the player, as you suggest, if they decide to enter again before filling their ultimate meter. This part of it is just a low-priority quality of life change.
The second aspect, however, is one that should be considered. Some of the game modes could be better, primarily Deathmatch, if everyone started at 0 ultimate. This way the battle takes a bit of time to "rev up" instead of having the initial clash of teams where everyone has their strongest ability available as if the fight has been going on for a few minutes already. This is both a question of preference and of balance. Some classes would be weaker from this change(if only temporarily), and this would come at a benefit or detriment to certain game modes. If it is a detriment to some of them, it can easily be handpicked which ones start at 0 and which ones start at 500, or any number in between.
I'm also aware that this affects werewolves in a major way. I'm not entirely sure what to do about that at the moment, but there's room for creative ideas here.0 -
PeaBrainCarl✭✭Lord_Dexter wrote: »I do not agree with most of nerfs except Rune Cage and Petrify!
Solad's and Zaan might need some adjustment too.
You can just suggest to nerf down everything!
I admit this at the end that there are only these few that "need" to be changed, while most of the others are there for discussion and my thoughts on why I think they could be changed if they even need changed at all.Nerf Valkyn Skoria??
... and once again, PvE would get nuked because of PvP crying.
All of this, on a set with massively visible proc, 1.6k DPS in PvE (I guess less in PvP) and that all you need to avoid its damage is to step 2 meters aside!
I think Valkyn Skoria deserves to be near the top of the list as well. Burst damage is what kills players in PvP, not so much DPS. Just because it's low DPS doesn't mean it's not high burst damage. Also, this set cannot be walked out of or dodged. You can only block it for lower damage, which makes it guaranteed to do at least some damage. It's worth noting that while testing this in a duel, which I did to make sure the information I was already pretty sure was accurate was correct, that it took me rough 15 tries to react to it while testing if it was dodgeable. This was with nothing else going on and simply waiting to try and dodge it when it triggered. I admit that it's possible my reaction time is just bad, but it seems like you don't get much warning, and again, this is aside from it being only blockable. It could stand to lose some damage at the very least.Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »Most of your points don't take other aspects of the game into consideration. Your suggestion to nerf everything would absolutely destroy balance in Cyrodiil, and in PvE content. - - I don't believe a game should be balanced around a niche game mode.
There are two parts to this. I'm not sure how much it's been discussed before on the forums, so I don't know if this is "more of the same." The first part is simply that I'm looking at Battlegrounds specifically. It's the same if I were looking at Cyrodiil or PvE, both of which I have and do play. I play all aspects of the game with PvE being the biggest for me.
The second part to this is that the different parts of the game are balanced together when they shouldn't be. That part of it is out of the hands of the players, even if it's obvious to many of us that it shouldn't be the way it currently is for the reason you mention.
Given both of these, it is fair to say I am ignoring the rest of the game, but that's how it should be looked at. Each area should be looked at in isolation to balance that area. If it is the case that they are all balanced together, and I'm well aware that this is the way ZOS does things and it's unlikely to change, it's still best to look at each area alone. Once every area of the game has been isolated and balance has been "finalized," at least in discussion, we can then start discussing how to balance things across multiple areas of the game. It's about having something from which to work, not about simply ignoring the other areas of the game and not caring about them at all. That part, bringing the other aspects of the game into it, comes afterwards. This is about Battlegrounds and should only be about Battlegrounds.0 -
cpuScientist✭✭✭✭✭
✭In terms of PvP not just like BG's, they need to Nerf sloads and rune cage sure. BESIDES THAT the only other Nerf needed is to take away the offense sigil from death match. People cheat to know exactly where it is. It just kills the fun of good PvP the one bastion of good pure PvP is deathmatch,and they find a way to MUCK it up with that darn offense sigil. TAKE IT OUT. Besides that we good homie.
Oh and change domination or delete it. Crazy king is a better domination than domination, Crazy king is dominating domination at being a better domination mode than the current domination mode is what I'm saying.0