generalmyrick wrote: »
- sloads is fun in pve and pvp
- permablockers and shield stacking sorcs are not fun--they name call others and only are good when they pick some slow zergling off when they get separated.
- caving to the pressure of the above will just lead to a game where people will move on after getting bored of the above and then you'll have a game where noone dies.
- #makesloadsgreatagain
generalmyrick wrote: »
- sloads is fun in pve
DeadlyRecluse wrote: »generalmyrick wrote: »
- sloads is fun in pve
How.
The mechanics that make it strong in PvP don't really exist in PvE, the damage is lackluster in that context, and the visual effect of the proc looks like a purple fart.
generalmyrick wrote: »
- sloads is fun in pve and pvp
- permablockers and shield stacking sorcs are not fun--they name call others and only are good when they pick some slow zergling off when they get separated.
- caving to the pressure of the above will just lead to a game where people will move on after getting bored of the above and then you'll have a game where noone dies.
- #makesloadsgreatagain
So the average single player gamer from Skyrim is completely lost and without a clue in ESO. So to compensate, they completely nerfed PVE content to oblivion and added layers of cheese that completely bypass mechanics in PVP like Shieldbreaker and Sload..
This is known (to use your word) as 'cheese', now baddies love this because they can have it all without any real trade-off or drawback and is an example of why people mock PvP in games like ESO, especially when the person is silly enough to go on about skill.
So the average single player gamer from Skyrim is completely lost and without a clue in ESO. So to compensate, they completely nerfed PVE content to oblivion and added layers of cheese that completely bypass mechanics in PVP like Shieldbreaker and Sload..
They added cheese as a band-aid to fix cheese like shield stacking, excessive blocking, etc.
A pretty standard concept in PvP games is if you build for attack you should have weak defence, if you build for defence you should have weak attack, that is balance, that helps promote skilled play, because you have to make trade-offs and learn to play with real weaknesses.
Now in ESO there are things that to various extents are the opposite of this, one of which is shields, where your main defence is non-critable, scaled off the same resource you want for sustain (and that also contributes to damage), has a skill that then restores that resource when you get hit and then to top it off you can stack this defence, so essentially your main defence scales and sustains off building for attack.
This is known (to use your word) as 'cheese', now baddies love this because they can have it all without any real trade-off or drawback and is an example of why people mock PvP in games like ESO, especially when the person is silly enough to go on about skill.
This is known (to use your word) as 'cheese', now baddies love this because they can have it all without any real trade-off or drawback and is an example of why people mock PvP in games like ESO, especially when the person is silly enough to go on about skill.
Are baddies the ones that people struggle to kill, or the one's struggling to kill someone?
In other words if I'm 1vX'ing players, it's because I'm playing the game right with a viable build. And my targets are losing for any number of reasons, down to having poor builds and not knowing how to play the game.
So which is the baddie?
This is known (to use your word) as 'cheese', now baddies love this because they can have it all without any real trade-off or drawback and is an example of why people mock PvP in games like ESO, especially when the person is silly enough to go on about skill.
Are baddies the ones that people struggle to kill, or the one's struggling to kill someone?
In other words if I'm 1vX'ing players, it's because I'm playing the game right with a viable build. And my targets are losing for any number of reasons, down to having poor builds and not knowing how to play the game.
So which is the baddie?
Well, you see that right there is one of the reasons people mock players in games like this, take SC2, guys that are GM, played the game for years, hours nearly every day, etc wouldn't get excited at playing a bronze ranked player or consider it skilled, to the point if they got a match against a bronze ranked player they'd think the game was broken, because of course what would be the point.
Where as the baddies of games like ESO think fighting players who might have a fraction of the time played, might only play PvP on occasion, could be of a vastly different age, etc (let's not even go into the joke that is differences in CP, gear, etc) is somehow "skilled" play, rather than the laughable "PvP" it actually is.
I realise this is going to come as a shock, but the basis for skilled PvP in games is competitive play, which is why most games have some sort of matchmaking and modes and balance designed around that, ESO on the other hand is to skilled competitive PvP what Jeffrey Dahmer was to fine cuisine.
They added cheese as a band-aid to fix cheese like shield stacking, excessive blocking, etc.
Now in ESO there are things that to various extents are the opposite of this, one of which is shields, where your main defence is non-critable, scaled off the same resource you want for sustain (and that also contributes to damage), has a skill that then restores that resource when you get hit and then to top it off you can stack this defence, so essentially your main defence scales and sustains off building for attack.
This is known (to use your word) as 'cheese', now baddies love this because they can have it all without any real trade-off or drawback and is an example of why people mock PvP in games like ESO, especially when the person is silly enough to go on about skill.
Where as the baddies of games like ESO think fighting players who might have a fraction of the time played, might only play PvP on occasion, could be of a vastly different age, etc (let's not even go into the joke that is differences in CP, gear, etc) is somehow "skilled" play, rather than the laughable "PvP" it actually is.
This is known (to use your word) as 'cheese', now baddies love this because they can have it all without any real trade-off or drawback and is an example of why people mock PvP in games like ESO, especially when the person is silly enough to go on about skill.
Are baddies the ones that people struggle to kill, or the one's struggling to kill someone?
In other words if I'm 1vX'ing players, it's because I'm playing the game right with a viable build. And my targets are losing for any number of reasons, down to having poor builds and not knowing how to play the game.
So which is the baddie?
Well, you see that right there is one of the reasons people mock players in games like this, take SC2, guys that are GM, played the game for years, hours nearly every day, etc wouldn't get excited at playing a bronze ranked player or consider it skilled, to the point if they got a match against a bronze ranked player they'd think the game was broken, because of course what would be the point.
Where as the baddies of games like ESO think fighting players who might have a fraction of the time played, might only play PvP on occasion, could be of a vastly different age, etc (let's not even go into the joke that is differences in CP, gear, etc) is somehow "skilled" play, rather than the laughable "PvP" it actually is.
I realise this is going to come as a shock, but the basis for skilled PvP in games is competitive play, which is why most games have some sort of matchmaking and modes and balance designed around that, ESO on the other hand is to skilled competitive PvP what Jeffrey Dahmer was to fine cuisine.
ESO drew people to the PvP because it isn't like games like SC2, it's a modernized take on action combat.
If you think ESO is a joke of a game, why do you play it?
If you don't think ESO is a joke of a game, why do you care what other people might think that don't play it?
In a game time played generally and directly correlates with your understanding of said game, which is part of the skill at being good at a video game. So if those five people who for whatever varying reason do not have the same time investment in the game, they should not experience the same level of success as someone who does.
This is known (to use your word) as 'cheese', now baddies love this because they can have it all without any real trade-off or drawback and is an example of why people mock PvP in games like ESO, especially when the person is silly enough to go on about skill.
Are baddies the ones that people struggle to kill, or the one's struggling to kill someone?
In other words if I'm 1vX'ing players, it's because I'm playing the game right with a viable build. And my targets are losing for any number of reasons, down to having poor builds and not knowing how to play the game.
So which is the baddie?
Well, you see that right there is one of the reasons people mock players in games like this, take SC2, guys that are GM, played the game for years, hours nearly every day, etc wouldn't get excited at playing a bronze ranked player or consider it skilled, to the point if they got a match against a bronze ranked player they'd think the game was broken, because of course what would be the point.
Where as the baddies of games like ESO think fighting players who might have a fraction of the time played, might only play PvP on occasion, could be of a vastly different age, etc (let's not even go into the joke that is differences in CP, gear, etc) is somehow "skilled" play, rather than the laughable "PvP" it actually is.
I realise this is going to come as a shock, but the basis for skilled PvP in games is competitive play, which is why most games have some sort of matchmaking and modes and balance designed around that, ESO on the other hand is to skilled competitive PvP what Jeffrey Dahmer was to fine cuisine.
ESO drew people to the PvP because it isn't like games like SC2, it's a modernized take on action combat.
That it is action combat is irrelevant to the point, just as SC2 being a isometric point and click type combat is...If you think ESO is a joke of a game, why do you play it?
As a skilled PvP game it is a joke.If you don't think ESO is a joke of a game, why do you care what other people might think that don't play it?
You really didn't get the point did you...In a game time played generally and directly correlates with your understanding of said game, which is part of the skill at being good at a video game. So if those five people who for whatever varying reason do not have the same time investment in the game, they should not experience the same level of success as someone who does.
Whoosh... I never stated any different, the difference is in skilled PvP games (whatever their combat system), the big reason they have what is considered skilled PvP is that the PvP is competitive, putting a player who has played the game a week against someone who has played 4 years is not competitive, it is not 'skilled PvP', it is trash tier PvP which is what you get in ESO (and a lot of MMORPGs), it is why lots of games have matchmaking, no one other than clueless MMORPG baddies think playing against opponents who are significantly worse than them (for whatever reason) is skilled PvP.
ESO PvP is just RvRvR in an open-world sandbox style environment.
When you say ESO has "worse PvP" than a game featuring a matchmaking system, that's more or less just your opinion. I play a lot of games with matchmaking and even in those games success generally boils down to time-played and your understanding of the game within that time.
The same thing applies to ESO regardless of if you want to accept it or not.
one minute I can roll my face across the keyboard against some guy who has played the game a week, the next I can get ganked by 4 guys on TS/Discord who have played since beta, neither of which is skilled, competitive, quality PvP in my book, maybe for you it is...
one minute I can roll my face across the keyboard against some guy who has played the game a week, the next I can get ganked by 4 guys on TS/Discord who have played since beta, neither of which is skilled, competitive, quality PvP in my book, maybe for you it is...
It would have been skilled, competitive, quality PvP if you had defeated the 4 guys in TS/Discord that ganked you.
I think you're confusing the idea of being "skilled" with being "impressive".
Obviously if I beat a brand new player with no armor, it isn't impressive, but it also doesn't mean that they way I defeated them wasn't skillful, nor does it mean I couldn't do the same thing against a much better, well prepared player.
Defeating several low level players might sometimes take a ton of skill, which would make it impressive. But that is relative.
"Skilled PvP" just means that whatever you are doing takes a lot of skill, and fighting ten potatoes sometimes does.
ESO PvP is just RvRvR in an open-world sandbox style environment.
When you say ESO has "worse PvP" than a game featuring a matchmaking system, that's more or less just your opinion. I play a lot of games with matchmaking and even in those games success generally boils down to time-played and your understanding of the game within that time.
Well I agree that in a general sense what is better or worse PvP is somewhat subjective (though objectively I'd point you to how PvP has basically failed miserably in MMORPGs and literally a single successful PvP game like DOTA, Overwatch, etc has vastly more players than every MMORPG PvPer combined, which speaks volumes).
However in terms of things being competitive and skilled, then no ESO (and MMORPGs in general) fail miserably at that compared to RTS, Shooters, MOBAs, etc.The same thing applies to ESO regardless of if you want to accept it or not.
The difference is if I go play SC2 or whatever, then for the most part I play against other players of a similar skill level, I don't face Bronze players in Platinum nor do I face Grandmaster league players, so for the most part that makes the PvP competitive and requires me to perform well, where as in Cyrodil for example competitively it is largely a joke, one minute I can roll my face across the keyboard against some guy who has played the game a week, the next I can get ganked by 4 guys on TS/Discord who have played since beta, neither of which is skilled, competitive, quality PvP in my book, maybe for you it is...
It would have been a 'skilled, competitive, quality' fight if based on our ability the outcome had a roughly 50% chance either way, the vast majority of fights aren't that, which is one of the reasons the game is a joke as a 'skilled, competitive, quality' PvP game.
Okay, yes you are right ESO is as competitive as DOTA 2, CS:GO, etc, requires the precision aiming and reflexes of Halo, the mechanical ability of SC2 and has a playerbase the size of LoL, topped off with devs that balance exclusively around a competitive game mode designed to keep the skill cap as high as possible.
Waffennacht wrote: »Fyi no first person shooter game is skill based.
In my Oh so many years of playing them.
FPS = cross hair (aka a dot on screen) on head (another dot on screen) push button = not skill
ZOS created a game with incredible depth to its combat system. But:
- they barely documented it
- don't have decent tutorials
- don't gradually scale the difficulty PVE content to teach players how to use it; in fact 99.9% of PVE is so easy, learning to play is *completely* optional
So the average single player gamer from Skyrim is completely lost and without a clue in ESO. So to compensate, they completely nerfed PVE content to oblivion and added layers of cheese that completely bypass mechanics in PVP like Shieldbreaker and Sload.
Instead of nerfing its own mechanics, ZOS should implement proper documentation, proper tutorials, and create PVE content that teaches players how to play as they progress.
Further, instead of throwing all players in the same PVP arenas -- whether in Cyrodiil, BGs or IC -- regardless of aptitude, they should create mechanisms and interfaces that segment players based on interest level; so that hardcore gamers are fighting hardcore gamers more often and casuals fight casuals.
This evening the odds 'raising the floor, lowering the ceiling' BS is destroying PVP.