Disability and ESO: would you mention it?

Strider__Roshin · June 2018

If I was grouped with you, and you were failing the mechanics yeah I'd get pretty irritated. If you told me that it's due to your medical condition that you can't perform said mechanics then it would make me more understanding, and I will try to overcompensate for you or give you a task that's less difficult to perform.

Simply ignoring everyone that criticizes you is a childish idea. Everyone by default thinks you're just as capable as they are. They won't know better unless you tell them otherwise.

yiasemi · June 2018

What do I care, it's a game and you probably play better than me anyway. I just ask you don't judge me. Have fun everyone.

THEDKEXPERIENCE · June 2018

jaschacasadiob16_ESO wrote: »

My opinion is that you should keep your real life well separated from your gaming activity. Only a very few selected number of people you play with should know who you are, where you live (city). Even less confidential details such as this.

If you think this can affect your performance, just avoid doing high-end content those days.

I’m the other way. It’s 2018, if someone really wants to stalk me there are 90,000 ways for them to figure out who I am.

I’m Dan, and I live in Mt Laurel, NJ. Nice to meet you all.

mareeelb16_ESO · June 2018

Hi Cazzy

I'm going to offer you my advice based on being in a position of being disabled myself and having already told people that I play with how it affects me (I have MS which can make my hands quite unpredictable at times).

Based on my own experience, I would urge some caution in telling people about your disability. I've found that people are often very understanding when you tell them, and express an intention of including and supporting you, however, when push comes to shove this rarely materialises. Unfortunately, I have definitely found that I'm now invited to join in vet dungeon runs and trials much less frequently than I was before I revealed my disability.

I guess the bottom line is what do expect to gain by telling people? And then you have to ask yourself whether you expectations are realistic. If you can already play the game and hold your own most of the time then I'm wondering whether the benefits of revealing your disability are outweighed by the risks?

Having said all of the above, I really would like to be wrong and find a really understanding group of people who would be fully inclusive, supportive and patient when things become challenging! Funnily enough, I remember the days when running trials and the whole group was challenged by the content... We overcame the hurdles together and there was a real sense of elation at the team effort.

Either way, I hope your decision works for you

DenMoria · June 2018

Cazzy wrote: »

So I have Erbs Palsy and although I do pretty alright I sometimes have off-days where my arm just won't cooperate. At those times I often wonder if I should mention to my team that I have Erbs and it can sometimes, rarely, but sometimes have an affect on certain mechanics etc.

I've been in positions where I've been scolded for something that was difficult for me that day and it made me feel awful. I also feel like mentioning it would put people off inviting me to groups (except the people I know well!)

I get the impression that this isn't a constant issue, but, if you run with a group of people that you know or have run with more than one, you could always IM them to let them know the situation. I certainly don't think you have to apologize for anything, but, just in case there's an issue, I am sure most folks would be more than happy to give you that little extra support until you're back to full force. At least I would.

Still, particularly if just grouping randomly, I don't think you need to say anything. No matter how bad you may perform, I can guarantee that there are those of us w/out any reasons that are just terrible players. I may be a great healer that will keep both myself and my team alive and kicking with buffs, but don't even think about putting me in a DPS position or direct conflict. I will let you down.

AuldWolf · June 2018

I'm quite disabled and I just avoid doing big group content any day, every day. It's not a particularly fun scene. I have poor sight (via the optic nerves, people whose heads this flies far over tend to recommend glasses), I can get the shakes really bad and lose control in a similar way, and I have generalised anxiety disorder which can cause panic attacks where I will literally lock up and be unable to move. People aren't usually very understanding or tolerant of those who're different than they are.

This is why I wish the content were designed differently. Player-instanced nodes, and all dungeons scaling to the size of the group entering it, that sort of thing. Why? It allows one to meet actually kind, understanding people whom they could then go and do some content with. That's how it used to be in MMOs a long time before it turned into forced grouping to aid... who? I don't know. I don't understand who it helps, exactly. Who wants to be forced into a group?

I can't do PuGs because the unknown variables are likely to trip my panic. One wrong word due to my inability to trust could cause me to freeze. That's not a good time for me or the people I'm playing with. I wish ZOS would adjust things to actually make ESO social, rather than forced antisocial. That's just me though. As I always say, it's their game. I just lament this forced antisocial nonsense. It's not great. I think an MMO is one where you find bonds with others by playing your own way, rather than being forced together with a bunch of people that feels too much like being stuck on a bus rather than anything genuinely enjoyable.

I'll never understand forced content. It's really antisocial. And it explains why end-game content is always a ghost town.

Thing is? I'm fine with the non-trial content anyway. It's just... well, lamentable is the right word. It's lamentable that MMOs have become such a forced affair. Like everyone is so antisocial that they have to be forced together. It's unfortunate.

Feanor · June 2018

Well, I know I’d just rez a player with an ailment who died to a mechanic and try to step up my game a bit too. If someone‘s honest about it I think 95% of players would go the extra mile to be helpful. Also shoutout to @wenchmore420b14_ESO , it’s true what he says about his guild.

pod88kk · June 2018

If you let people know they're usually very understanding, otherwise they won't know that you're having a rough day.

Danikat · June 2018

I think if you know or expect it to affect your ability to play that day it might be worth saying something so your group knows what to expect, but how much detail you give is up to you.

Ideally when you tell them they'll make an effort to accommodate you, which sounds like it would be as simple as accepting that it might take you a bit longer to do things and your timing might not be perfect and not criticising because they know there's a reason for it. And if they are going to be horrible about it then it's probably better to find out before you waste your time trying to play with them.

It's not the same but I can't use voice chat most of the time - my hearing is fine and normally so is my voice (not right now, I have a cold) but I play in the main room of my house which is usually noisy and I can't use headphones to shut myself off from that so I can't even listen and not speak. I always tell guilds when I join that I don't do voice chat and if a group asks me to join I tell them the same (except on the rare occasions I'm home alone and can join in). I've never been turned down because of it. I've decided not to join guilds because they said they usually use voice chat but if I type people will probably respond, which sounds very lonely to me, but dungeons groups or whatever are fine with it. (I don't do the harder content, which probably helps.)

I've also had days when someone has asked me to do a dungeon and I've explained that I'm home sick and barely up to doing starter islands and on more than one occasion they've persuaded me to come along anyway and put up with my terrible timing and suddenly stopping for a coughing fit.

Maybe I've just been lucky with the people I meet, but I suspect most people are actually not that strict about perfect timing and things.

ZeroXFF · June 2018

I've read a couple comments and I haven't seen it being mentioned...

As harsh as it sounds, this is a team game, so it's not just about you. You don't show up to a serious football game (even among friends) in a wheelchair and expect everyone to compensate and pretend that you're a valuable member of the team, even if they really like you otherwise. It's your problem, not theirs.

With that said, I'm pretty sure there are people who would love to help out, so join them and not those who actually want to get things done. Yes, talk about it to your guild master and raid organizers, that way you'll know how much fun you can have with them, and they'll know how much they can progress with you in the group.

As for pugs, it's up to you. Mentioning it will most definitely turn a "u suck, delet gaem" into "I'm sorry, but we can't do it with you" before they kick you, but they will still kick you (or leave themselves, which doesn't really change the result).

And at the end of the day there is a special setting for people who can't perform well, it's called normal mode. There is rarely anyone running them who isn't disabled one way or another

, so you won't stand out, and you will still be able to do most if not all of that content.

DenMoria · June 2018

Cold. Not inaccurate, but cold. 1) This is not a "team game". It can be a "team game" but it doesn't have to be and 2) You, as a player, are exactly the reason why I do not do the grouping, PUG and shared things in this game. I am more than happy to help out when I'm needed (and I am quite a good healer to be honest), but I refuse to be dictated to because I do not fit the narrow slot that another player has set for me (that' so Meta of you!) or be berated because I should "LTP" because I have not given my entire life over to a game. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of absolutely awesome folks that play ESO, but, they are few and far between anymore and it is people like you that are making it more difficult. You are to be supported. You are the only one that matters. Only YOU matter.

ZeroXFF wrote: »

I've read a couple comments and I haven't seen it being mentioned...

As harsh as it sounds, this is a team game, so it's not just about you. You don't show up to a serious football game (even among friends) in a wheelchair and expect everyone to compensate and pretend that you're a valuable member of the team, even if they really like you otherwise. It's your problem, not theirs.

With that said, I'm pretty sure there are people who would love to help out, so join them and not those who actually want to get things done. Yes, talk about it to your guild master and raid organizers, that way you'll know how much fun you can have with them, and they'll know how much they can progress with you in the group.

As for pugs, it's up to you. Mentioning it will most definitely turn a "u suck, delet gaem" into "I'm sorry, but we can't do it with you" before they kick you, but they will still kick you (or leave themselves, which doesn't really change the result).

And at the end of the day there is a special setting for people who can't perform well, it's called normal mode. There is rarely anyone running them who isn't disabled one way or another , so you won't stand out, and you will still be able to do most if not all of that content.

Nestor · June 2018

Feanor wrote: »

Well, I know I’d just rez a player with an ailment who died to a mechanic and try to step up my game a bit too. If someone‘s honest about it I think 95% of players would go the extra mile to be helpful. Also shoutout to @wenchmore420b14_ESO , it’s true what he says about his guild.

Wench and I are in the same Guild and I am in another social guild. As an officer in both I can say we don't put up with exclusionary nonsense. We even run a Group event where you come as you are. Which means as long as you are trying, its all good. Sure something like the Vet Trials event has some requirements but we also run a couple normal trials where all we ask is you listen to the Raid Leader.

If you want a good group experience, your going to find it in a good guild. PUGs are hit or miss and sometimes, not always, less forgiving.

Good rule of thumb, if you only care about getting the dungeon done, join a pug, if want a good experience, join a guild.

Nyghthowler · June 2018

I have M.S. so the signals don't always go to the fingers I want, causing mis-keys. I have no embarrassment about this as it is something I can't help.

That being said, I don't do Trials, end game dungeons, or anything else that requires precise input. I am part of some really good guilds and have no doubt I could get groups to do the content with me, but I don't want to be the weak link in the chain. Just how I feel about it. To all the others with disabilities that do take part;

/Applause!!!

MehrunesFlagon · June 2018

I always tell my group I'm crazy.

Tholian1 · June 2018

jaschacasadiob16_ESO wrote: »

My opinion is that you should keep your real life well separated from your gaming activity. Only a very few selected number of people you play with should know who you are, where you live (city). Even less confidential details such as this.

If you think this can affect your performance, just avoid doing high-end content those days.

This ^

It shouldn’t be anyone’s business. If you are having an off day, do something solo like quests or farming materials. Or simply ignore the people that take this game way too seriously.

ZeroXFF · June 2018

DenMoria wrote: »

Cold. Not inaccurate, but cold. 1) This is not a "team game". It can be a "team game" but it doesn't have to be and 2) You, as a player, are exactly the reason why I do not do the grouping, PUG and shared things in this game. I am more than happy to help out when I'm needed (and I am quite a good healer to be honest), but I refuse to be dictated to because I do not fit the narrow slot that another player has set for me (that' so Meta of you!) or be berated because I should "LTP" because I have not given my entire life over to a game. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of absolutely awesome folks that play ESO, but, they are few and far between anymore and it is people like you that are making it more difficult. You are to be supported. You are the only one that matters. Only YOU matter.

ZeroXFF wrote: »

I've read a couple comments and I haven't seen it being mentioned...

As harsh as it sounds, this is a team game, so it's not just about you. You don't show up to a serious football game (even among friends) in a wheelchair and expect everyone to compensate and pretend that you're a valuable member of the team, even if they really like you otherwise. It's your problem, not theirs.

With that said, I'm pretty sure there are people who would love to help out, so join them and not those who actually want to get things done. Yes, talk about it to your guild master and raid organizers, that way you'll know how much fun you can have with them, and they'll know how much they can progress with you in the group.

As for pugs, it's up to you. Mentioning it will most definitely turn a "u suck, delet gaem" into "I'm sorry, but we can't do it with you" before they kick you, but they will still kick you (or leave themselves, which doesn't really change the result).

And at the end of the day there is a special setting for people who can't perform well, it's called normal mode. There is rarely anyone running them who isn't disabled one way or another , so you won't stand out, and you will still be able to do most if not all of that content.

You don't know me. You would probably love me in the game, because I'm usually one of those who clicks no on those low CP kicks at the start of a dungeon, and I will explain tactics and keep wiping with someone who is learning for hours, if I see that there is a chance for improvement. And I also don't care about who uses "the meta" either.

Just because I say the truth as it is, doesn't mean I'm a bad person. It's quite scary that telling the truth invites such hostility from the general public. When you can't say anything without sugar-coating it with lies or by saying only half the truth as to not offend the snowflakes, no wonder all politicians are liars and the world is going to hell.

And I disagree about your estimation of how many good people are in ESO. There certainly are plenty of bad people (for example everyone who queues as a fake tank without even slotting a taunt), but there are many more who will be happy to help. But you can't blame someone who plays an hour a day for not wanting to waste all of it in a dungeon they can't complete because of you.

MLGProPlayer · June 2018

Yes. People won't get angry (unless they're dickbags) if they know you're disabled. They get angry because they think you're bad and you're ignoring their advice. If you can't heed their advice at a specific moment due to a disability that's an entirely different story and you'll get a very different response if you make it known.

Everyone loses if the disability is kept secret. The teammates will continue to berate the disabled player, not knowong any better, while the disabled player will feel like *** because they can't do anything about it.

I have a disability myself (heart condition) and I'm not supposed to lift anything super heavy. I'm also tall and look athletic though, so people always ask me for help carrying things around. If I tell them I don't want to do it, they call me an *** because it means someone smaller has to do it. If I tell them I'm disabled, they are completely understanding.

MLGProPlayer · June 2018

Violynne wrote: »

If you have people criticizing your play, put them on your ignore list and find the many more who won't.

Criticism is an important part of multiplayer games. You shouldn't be ignoring it if you're genuinely bad at the game.

Obviously that isn't the case with OP, but the general advice of "ignore feedback from teammates" is not good advice. Players that aren't disabled should absolutely not ignore their teammates. And players who are disabled should make it known so their teammates can adjust their expectations accordingly.

DenMoria · June 2018

My apologies then if I'm mistaken. That and, apparently I just have terrible luck with the group mechanics. I'm not a talker and don't take being bullied well and it seems like 90% of my non-guild contacts are that way.

ZeroXFF wrote: »

DenMoria wrote: »

Cold. Not inaccurate, but cold. 1) This is not a "team game". It can be a "team game" but it doesn't have to be and 2) You, as a player, are exactly the reason why I do not do the grouping, PUG and shared things in this game. I am more than happy to help out when I'm needed (and I am quite a good healer to be honest), but I refuse to be dictated to because I do not fit the narrow slot that another player has set for me (that' so Meta of you!) or be berated because I should "LTP" because I have not given my entire life over to a game. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of absolutely awesome folks that play ESO, but, they are few and far between anymore and it is people like you that are making it more difficult. You are to be supported. You are the only one that matters. Only YOU matter.

ZeroXFF wrote: »

I've read a couple comments and I haven't seen it being mentioned...

As harsh as it sounds, this is a team game, so it's not just about you. You don't show up to a serious football game (even among friends) in a wheelchair and expect everyone to compensate and pretend that you're a valuable member of the team, even if they really like you otherwise. It's your problem, not theirs.

With that said, I'm pretty sure there are people who would love to help out, so join them and not those who actually want to get things done. Yes, talk about it to your guild master and raid organizers, that way you'll know how much fun you can have with them, and they'll know how much they can progress with you in the group.

As for pugs, it's up to you. Mentioning it will most definitely turn a "u suck, delet gaem" into "I'm sorry, but we can't do it with you" before they kick you, but they will still kick you (or leave themselves, which doesn't really change the result).

And at the end of the day there is a special setting for people who can't perform well, it's called normal mode. There is rarely anyone running them who isn't disabled one way or another , so you won't stand out, and you will still be able to do most if not all of that content.

You don't know me. You would probably love me in the game, because I'm usually one of those who clicks no on those low CP kicks at the start of a dungeon, and I will explain tactics and keep wiping with someone who is learning for hours, if I see that there is a chance for improvement. And I also don't care about who uses "the meta" either.

Just because I say the truth as it is, doesn't mean I'm a bad person. It's quite scary that telling the truth invites such hostility from the general public. When you can't say anything without sugar-coating it with lies or by saying only half the truth as to not offend the snowflakes, no wonder all politicians are liars and the world is going to hell.

And I disagree about your estimation of how many good people are in ESO. There certainly are plenty of bad people (for example everyone who queues as a fake tank without even slotting a taunt), but there are many more who will be happy to help. But you can't blame someone who plays an hour a day for not wanting to waste all of it in a dungeon they can't complete because of you.

DenMoria · June 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Violynne wrote: »

If you have people criticizing your play, put them on your ignore list and find the many more who won't.

Criticism is an important part of multiplayer games. You shouldn't be ignoring it if you're genuinely bad at the game.

Obviously that isn't the case with OP, but the general advice of "ignore feedback from teammates" is not good advice. Players that aren't disabled should absolutely not ignore their teammates. And players who are disabled should make it known so their teammates can adjust their expectations accordingly.

There is a big difference between criticism and just being a tool. I know, I've met many of both. Feedback, on the whole, in my experience (and perhaps only in my experience), while not directed at me, has been downright rude and/or outright bully tactics.

Parvati_OAC · June 2018

I am a long time gamer with leg paralysis for 30+ yrs, I had a PUG once vote kick me in a Cradle of Shadows run as I tanked and tried to explain the end boss fight as we repeatedly wiped. The dps and healer both voiced among themselves "his gamer tag is [snip] he must be 'autistic' or something...."

Really ----> you can't listen to kind instructions instead of dying and I'm the one who is disabled?

I get booted and reque...

Same group. WTF.

And that's PUGs.

[Edit for naming and shaming.]

Cazzy · June 2018

Thank you all for the positive comments and feedback!

I will say I don't let my disability stop me in real life so won't let it stop me in ESO. I've lead vet trial groups before and always try my best. I will never let it dictate what content I can do

I'm in a few friendly guilds already and think I'll mention it to them as I want to join some prog groups and, eventually, core.

It felt really good to read these comments and feel better about my situation. It has helped a lot, thank you!

Diminish · June 2018

No need to say anything. On console, I've played many games with people who obviously had no thumbs. It all worked out in the end, and it will work out in your situation as well.

All jokes aside, what you choose to share is your choice, and only your choice. Each person you choose to share things like this with will be because of different reasons. There is no yes/no answer to your question. Personally, I could give two *** if you were in my group, and not pulling your weight. There are very few things in this game that cannot be done with 2 to 3 decent players in a group so having 1 or 2 people slacking , not pulling their own weight, or simply incapable for whatever reason really is not a big deal. If you get someone [snip] and moaning about a single person in most content outside of some of the trials and vet hard mode DLC dungeons then they themselves really have no room to criticize you (knowing your condition or not).

[Edit for censor bypass.]