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The Ultimate "Proper Constructive Criticism" Thread
Kalgert
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So this thread may be a creation from someone lacking sleep, or just from a sense of mild bother about the way some people deliver their "Helpful" and "Constructive" critique on how let's say... Someone's damage output or general performance in anything that involves fighting stuff.
I do not expect this thread to be a mighty rulebook, but more as guidelines that may suggest an optimal encounter, that will leave everyone happy, and not at each other's throats.
1. Do not be rude.
Pretty obvious with this one, telling someone that they are the worst player in existence and having a whiff of superiority over them won't help the player know what he is doing wrong, nor will he care to figure out because the person won't be too happy with someone telling them "U suck noob", block them and that is the end of it. Yes, being polite is hard, but do try the minimal best and treat the person you are talking to as a human being.
2. Encouragement.
What I mean with this, is that if you are already taking the role of a judge, you may want to at least acknowledge some things that are done good by the player you are judging. Something that many people seem to forget, and are then shocked why their words aren't taken seriously. Example: You are in a dungeon with someone who is doing poor DPS, but is doing a great job at surviving the encounter, and is also not taxing the healer too much.
Which do you think sounds better?
"Hey, you're doing a good job at surviving, but there are a few things that can be improved upon"
Or "You need improvements, experiment with builds"
Which leads to this one:
3. Hush with the builds
I suppose this one doesn't make much sense, but it does resonate in the sense of "Telling someone to experiment with builds isn't helping much". Let us be honest, how being a DPS is in this game can be described as... Strange to some degree. I personally have found out that the only way I am able to do higher DPS than I usually do, is by being a Magicka class with a lot of DoT's. And that is really not a fun way to play if you ask me, but I am kinda enthralled to do so due to ambitions of grandeour. Basically I want to say is, don't tell someone about builds, because they are pants.
5. Stop expecting perfection.
Hard to describe this one, but I see it as such: Stop expecting people to perform 30 to 40k single-target DPS, just because you saw some guy jumping around dropping one AoE down that killed a bunch of mobs in three seconds. Keep things realistic, and don't have a "If I can do it, so can everyone else, so do it or git fuckt" attitude, because not everyone are able to pin-point the exact formulae that will allow them to do a million billion damage, especially since it involves a lot of precise alchemy in this here game.
So... These are my musings. Feel free to debate me whether I am correct to think this or not.
Edited by Kalgert on June 20, 2018 2:54AM I do not expect this thread to be a mighty rulebook, but more as guidelines that may suggest an optimal encounter, that will leave everyone happy, and not at each other's throats.
1. Do not be rude.
Pretty obvious with this one, telling someone that they are the worst player in existence and having a whiff of superiority over them won't help the player know what he is doing wrong, nor will he care to figure out because the person won't be too happy with someone telling them "U suck noob", block them and that is the end of it. Yes, being polite is hard, but do try the minimal best and treat the person you are talking to as a human being.
2. Encouragement.
What I mean with this, is that if you are already taking the role of a judge, you may want to at least acknowledge some things that are done good by the player you are judging. Something that many people seem to forget, and are then shocked why their words aren't taken seriously. Example: You are in a dungeon with someone who is doing poor DPS, but is doing a great job at surviving the encounter, and is also not taxing the healer too much.
Which do you think sounds better?
"Hey, you're doing a good job at surviving, but there are a few things that can be improved upon"
Or "You need improvements, experiment with builds"
Which leads to this one:
3. Hush with the builds
I suppose this one doesn't make much sense, but it does resonate in the sense of "Telling someone to experiment with builds isn't helping much". Let us be honest, how being a DPS is in this game can be described as... Strange to some degree. I personally have found out that the only way I am able to do higher DPS than I usually do, is by being a Magicka class with a lot of DoT's. And that is really not a fun way to play if you ask me, but I am kinda enthralled to do so due to ambitions of grandeour. Basically I want to say is, don't tell someone about builds, because they are pants.
5. Stop expecting perfection.
Hard to describe this one, but I see it as such: Stop expecting people to perform 30 to 40k single-target DPS, just because you saw some guy jumping around dropping one AoE down that killed a bunch of mobs in three seconds. Keep things realistic, and don't have a "If I can do it, so can everyone else, so do it or git fuckt" attitude, because not everyone are able to pin-point the exact formulae that will allow them to do a million billion damage, especially since it involves a lot of precise alchemy in this here game.
So... These are my musings. Feel free to debate me whether I am correct to think this or not.
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Kalgert✭✭✭✭✭I just thought of another one.
6. Humble thyself and do not speak from the rear
This comes mostly from seeing people trying to elevate themselves as a greater power, no matter if they fumbled or not (Especially hard to take seriously if they were dying and yet take the liberty to critisize people's performance just because they happened to deal lotsadamage). Another thing is about how they attempt to lecture you, despite not playing a given role or class, so they end up talking complete nonsense, about how to play a tank when they are a healer or such and such. Do not do this, you are not perfect or know what I am playing, so please do not talk to people like you are an expert of their class, or think you are great even when you are dying.Edited by Kalgert on June 20, 2018 12:07PM1 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I just thought of another one.
6. Humble thyself and do not speak from the rear
This comes mostly from seeing people trying to elevate themselves as a greater power, no matter if they fumbled or not (Especially hard to take seriously if they were dying and yet take the liberty to critisize people's performance just because they happened to deal lotsadamage). Another thing is about how they attempt to lecture you, despite not playing a given role or class, so they end up talking complete nonsense, about how to play a tank when they are a healer or such and such. Do not do this, you are not perfect or know what I am playing, so please do not talk to people like you are an expert of their class, or think you are great even when you are dying.
Some of us are very experienced with all three PVE roles, Kalgert. If I’m on my damage dealer and I’m having to kite the boss, dodge roll every two seconds, and spam shields because the tank doesn’t know how to taunt or turn bosses, and the healer doesn’t have a single group heal equipped, then I’m well within my rights to speak up.
Edit: You also do not have to play a particular role to understand the basic requirements of said role.
Edited by Aurielle on June 20, 2018 12:29PM4 -
Milvan✭✭✭✭✭
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For real tho, internet (maybe IRL too, I don't really know much about it since I don't go out much) has been like this since it's dawn. You won't really change much with a random thread on a mmorpg forum.“Kings of the land and the sky we are; proud gryphons.” Stalker stands, the epitome of pride. Naked and muscular, his wings widen and his feet dig in as if he alone holds down the earth and supports the heavens, keeping the two ever separate.”
Gryphons guild - @Milvan,6 -
Merlin13KAGL✭✭✭✭✭
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This. People often make assumptions, and they're generally wrong or missing considerable information.I just thought of another one.
6. Humble thyself and do not speak from the rear
This comes mostly from seeing people trying to elevate themselves as a greater power, no matter if they fumbled or not (Especially hard to take seriously if they were dying and yet take the liberty to critisize people's performance just because they happened to deal lotsadamage). Another thing is about how they attempt to lecture you, despite not playing a given role or class, so they end up talking complete nonsense, about how to play a tank when they are a healer or such and such. Do not do this, you are not perfect or know what I am playing, so please do not talk to people like you are an expert of their class, or think you are great even when you are dying.
Some of us are very experienced with all three PVE roles, Kalgert. If I’m on my damage dealer and I’m having to kite the boss, dodge roll every two seconds, and spam shields because the tank doesn’t know how to taunt or turn bosses, and the healer doesn’t have a single group heal equipped, then I’m well within my rights to speak up.
Edit: You also do not have to play a particular role to understand the basic requirements of said role.
Also, people are either open to suggestions, or they're not. There's usually not much middle ground.
I was on an alt account in Selene's as the healer around CP150ish. You'd have thought I kicked the tank's puppy when I asked him to lock down the adds on Longclaw. He actually replied with "I can't be expected to tank the boss and the adds." and various other follow ups. He didn't factor in the multiple characters of multiple roles (most vet trials capable) on the main account (which I hadn't mentioned) with more CP's than the other three group members combined.
I informed them they were going to have loads of fun on the last fight.
So with that in mind:
7. Be willing to take reasonable advice with a grain of salt. If someone's offering a suggestion on how your group might be able to succeed where they have been failing, or it seems like they have experience not directly reflected on their character sheet stats, you might want to listen. You may actually improve your class, character, and content specific mechanics in the process - you might actually learn something.
Take the time to listen and you might learn. Be insistent that you're aware of all there is to know already, and people worthy of passing on some hidden gems won't bother wasting their time.
Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...
Earn it.
IRL'ing for a while for assorted reasons, in forum, and in game.I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS1 -
Agenericname✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭So this thread may be a creation from someone lacking sleep, or just from a sense of mild bother about the way some people deliver their "Helpful" and "Constructive" critique on how let's say... Someone's damage output or general performance in anything that involves fighting stuff.
I do not expect this thread to be a mighty rulebook, but more as guidelines that may suggest an optimal encounter, that will leave everyone happy, and not at each other's throats.
1. Do not be rude.
So... These are my musings. Feel free to debate me whether I am correct to think this or not.
Personally I think that you could have stopped at #1 and encompassed just about everything. Don't be toxic. It's a good rule that applies to life in general.
If I were to add something, perhaps; "be open to criticism." Not all of it should be seen as toxic.
That of course is just my opinion. Fortunately my experiences have been that the game itself is often less toxic than the forums can be.
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Agenericname✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭jokeaccount wrote: »what, uh... what happened to the fourth rule?
"Only two guys to a fight fellas"0 -
Kalgert✭✭✭✭✭jokeaccount wrote: »what, uh... what happened to the fourth rule?
It has been lost in translation. Or well, as I haven't slept at all during that time (Managed to get a few winks after posting the thread), I must've forgotten to put fourth instead of skipping to fifth.0 -
DenMoria✭✭✭✭✭
✭True, but you don't need to be rude about it and act the bully. After my first year with ESO, I pretty much stopped doing anything except solo and minor silent support roles in group because of know-it-all, rude people. I would rather play my part as a healer who can defend themselves and remain silent or on my own rather than be berated by someone who thinks they're the end all and be all. If someone is screwing up, just tell them they need so shape up, not yell at them, call them stupid and completely humiliate them. Nobody learns that way.I just thought of another one.
6. Humble thyself and do not speak from the rear
This comes mostly from seeing people trying to elevate themselves as a greater power, no matter if they fumbled or not (Especially hard to take seriously if they were dying and yet take the liberty to critisize people's performance just because they happened to deal lotsadamage). Another thing is about how they attempt to lecture you, despite not playing a given role or class, so they end up talking complete nonsense, about how to play a tank when they are a healer or such and such. Do not do this, you are not perfect or know what I am playing, so please do not talk to people like you are an expert of their class, or think you are great even when you are dying.
Some of us are very experienced with all three PVE roles, Kalgert. If I’m on my damage dealer and I’m having to kite the boss, dodge roll every two seconds, and spam shields because the tank doesn’t know how to taunt or turn bosses, and the healer doesn’t have a single group heal equipped, then I’m well within my rights to speak up.
Edit: You also do not have to play a particular role to understand the basic requirements of said role.
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