Do you realize how much ADVERTISING cost an online game?

President_PUG
President_PUG
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Top AAA online games have to budget HALF all their income on Advertising.
Sometimes that's a 1 with this many Zero's after it 00000000. or 1,000,000,000. think really big game company rhythms with Bony.
I didn't really realize it till people got concerned about a program called REDSHELL.DLL
I wanted to know what it was, and why it was needed.
I try to break it down here.

MOTHERBOARD ONLINE MAGAZINE reports:
Game Developers Dump 'Redshell' Tracking Program After Privacy Backlash
Developers of games like Total War and Civilization are apologizing and removing the software from their games.
Jun 18 2018, 8:25am

Personally it wasn't as big a deal as people made out.There are so many marketing ways to track consumers you probably don't even realize Your local grocery store keeps tabs on you.

Here is selection from MORRISON FOODS : "We know that an anonymised card number paid for a particular basket of groceries one week and how much was spent with the same card number the following week," says a Morrisons spokesperson. "It means we know when customers are lapsing because we won't see their card for a week. We use it to measure the effectiveness of promotions and events."

Supermarkets can use your card details to learn more about you.
When asked whether its customers give permission for their card numbers to be tracked in this way, the supermarket says customers "would only need to opt in" if Morrisons intended to send them any form of communication.

Maybe you didn't realize Your local T.V. provider can sell your browsing history.

Consider this:DirecTV combines data it collects from viewing habits from its customers’ digital video recorders with information from third-party market researchers in categories such as income, gender, age and buying habits. This is how it figures out how to send the right ad to the person on the other end of the pitch.
“We can target based on demographics, household income, geo-targeting, home owners versus rental - a wide variety,” said Paul Guyardo, chief revenue and marketing officer for DirecTV.

Did you know the following information about you is accessible by your service provider at any time.
All unencrypted IP packets: the addresses in the header, and the data payload.
All unencrypted E-mails that are ever stored at their E-mail server.
All unencrypted files you store in their web server (or "Cloud Storage" service). All encrypted files to which they have the encryption key.
All IP Addresses you exchange traffic with, without exception (these cannot be encrypted because they are used to route the traffic and thus are subject to Traffic Analysis). This can be slightly mitigated with use of Virtual Private Networks, but that still will not mask how much data you’re moving, or when you’re moving it.
All E-mail addresses for correspondence you send/receive through their SMTP (E-mail) servers (as with IP addresses, these are used to route E-mail messages and must be unencrypted). Also subject to Traffic Analysis.
All Domain Name System queries you make through their DNS name servers.

If you stop and think about it The Marketing companies were trying to be helpful to you. "Hey We notice you like to call your Pizza in around 7 p.m. Friday evenings...We special offer yada yada yada just for you..."

You know what THE BIGGEST COST for a game is, hell any business...ADVERTISING.
If I told you "HALF the budget for an online internet game goes just in Advertising." 9 figures in top AAA games. Would you consider they could save a HUGE amount money if they knew which adds actually work? They wouldn't have to spend so much in areas that offer no return. They could narrow down a lot of wasted money, if they just knew a way to find out what you might want in the future.
Hence a tool that's been around longer most you been on Earth called "MIDDLEMAN"
That's just another person with their hand out trying just make an honest living keeping a notebook about what other people are up to.

REDSHELL could've saved gamers and and game makers millions, the only mistake was not telling those on the targeted end that we would like to peruse your purchasing history of OUR PRODUCTS to better allocate The funds we use to know what to continue to make and what not to make.It all stayed in house, What gaming company wants to give up what you might like to buy?

Lets look at the World as a Whole and in closing You might find this amusing and less threatening to Your Information comfort zone.

You read in The Headlines one day a Foreign country has accessed your banks information and may have targeted your account. You know stealing from a bank that way is a one time gig...If you just want to know what everyone over there is buying, You could build a factory way ahead everyone else and start supplying the goods before other nations realize the potential.Think of the savings, no guessing where to invest when starting up that company, Heck its a blank check.
That how valuable your spending habits are. Your actually money is safe that's not their agenda. They just want to know more then the other guy, and offer You The Thing You exactly wanted for along time...before you even realize you need it.

Bottom line? Someday not too far in the Future... a Game that's a must have and if you don't have it your loser, The Game decides You can join, but here is what We need you to agree to...and from there depending on how bad you wanna play that game, you will be willing to put on clown shoes, ride a unicycle, and call yourself MARY! Just so you can have that game.
They all ready got your attention focused to their world the size of hand held phone. VR and real time heart rate monitoring, instant brain wave mapping, and soon You won't even need a cord to plug in any more, all you need is a little chip behind your ear, and you take your gaming anywhere.
“Don’t wish it was easier, wish you were better.”
  • Enslaved
    Enslaved
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    I just know I play less now than before. Constant bombardment with summerset ads are to be blamed for that.
    Once I log in, I am forced to either cope with horrid out of place music related to new chapter on a every single character in any zone, or to completely turn off music.
    I am forced to use addons like no, thank you to not be visually assaulted every single time I log on another character with adds of stuff I did buy already.
    Some of the quests force ppl to battle mobs that are same as crown crate exclusive mounts.

    This type of ads simply make me not wanna log in at all. I do so just to collect daily reward and to train mounts on my alt account.
  • Exalted_Goose
    Exalted_Goose
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    All this thread did is make me want to move to an isolated forest and establish an Upper Paleolithic-era tribal community to escape from the marketing vultures who'll track me when I buy a pack of 6 Interprox Plus 90° Micro Interdental Brushes.
    "One fine day in the middle of the night. Two dead Kings got up to fight. Back to back they faced each other, drew their bows... and stabbed themselves...".
  • jedtb16_ESO
    jedtb16_ESO
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    hmmm....

    it's not like this is a new thing. epos has been around since the early 70's. didn't really take off till the early 90's (moores law and all that).

    if you want to avoid it just pay with cash. kind of limits your options though.
  • Easily_Lost
    Easily_Lost
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    Don't you think they know what you buy from the Crown Store without having to use a third party program.
    PC - NA - AD
    started April 2015
    PVE & Solo only

    Meet the LOST family: CP 1250+
    Easily Lost Crafter - lvl 50 - Sorcerer Orc ( knows all traits and most styles )
    Easily Lost-W - lvl 50 - Warden Imperial
    Forever Lost - lvl 50 Sorcerer


    CROWN CRATES: It doesn't affect gameplay, it's not mandatory, it's cosmetic only. If it helps to support the game and ZOS, I support it! Say YES to crown crates.
  • AuldWolf
    AuldWolf
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    The problem is is that advertising can hurt a company more than it can help it if they don't understand the product they're selling. I remember at one point ESO was trying to sell itself as a WoW-clone. "Look at all our raid content! Work together! Take on the daedric raid bosses, TOGETHER! AS A HUGE WAR GROUP THING! WOOO! RAAAAIDS!" And all I could think to myself was 'what game is this?' I mean, it certainly isn't ESO. ESO is a small-group game that's casual friendly. They learned their lesson afterwards and focused on story-based trailers (a GOOD choice) instead of trying to sell ESO as a WoW clone.

    Marketing fails can hurt a company, though. It can bring in people who're looking for one kind of product, specifically, that you're not selling. If you're not selling that product, it leads to a small number of very angry, loud, vocal people who'll demand you provide them with that product because you advertised it to them. That's the problem with advertising is that people will behave as though if something is advertised, it's the absolute truth of the matter. Advertising rarely represents any absolute truths, but people are people.

    It was honestly painful for a while to watch just how behind the curve ESO's marketing division was. They were trying to sell 'ESO-flavoured WoW' when One Tamriel was rolling out. So, yeah, advertising can be as detrimental as it can be helpful. I'm not sure how helpful it actually is in the long run.

    The best advertising you can have is to just have video games news/video sites play the game and report on it. That's how 99 per cent of people will come into a game. They'll watch Polygon or some other group play a game and think 'I want to play that, too!' That's how modern advertising tends to actually work for games like this. This isn't exactly a high-profile brick & mortar single-player game.

    So I'm all for them spending money on advertising, I just want them to make sure it's the right advertising that'll help them bring in more money and grow their loyal community.
  • Eldartar
    Eldartar
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    Welcome to the Modern World, you may be able to fence yourself in, but you can't fence the world out. change will happen with or without you.
  • Taternater
    Taternater
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    If someone spying on me dies of boredom, am I a murderer? If so, am I still boring?
  • Turelus
    Turelus
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    Marketing is a huge part of games publishing now, the Zenimax group take their marketing very seriously.

    The costs they pay and the random things they do to further push the visibility of their games is crazy.
    @Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
    "Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."
  • NoTimeToWait
    NoTimeToWait
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    They would still spend half the budget advertising the product no matter what. Because it pays off more than anything else.
    Edited by NoTimeToWait on June 19, 2018 10:05AM
  • Mayrael
    Mayrael
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    Advertising to someone who already bought their product is bad. Also irritating your possible customers with adds usualy gives opposite effects. I don't mind ZOS spending billions on advertising on Facebook or wherever they want, just stop pi$$ing off the player base. We are already here, we know what is in Crown Store, when something changes ok, then give me a notice, I will check it out but stop bombing me with the same stuff every time I switch my toons...
    "We are currently investigating connection issues some players are having on the European megaservers. We will update as new information becomes available."
    — They always claim they’re “investigating” the causes, but in reality they’re just waiting until the PC EU players go to bed. Once that happens, you can suddenly log in again and they happily mark the issue as Fixed.
  • VaranisArano
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    I'm sure it costs a ton to advertise.

    That's why I find it funny that pretty much the only advertisements I see online these days are for Summerset and before that for Morrowind...both of which I pre-ordered.
  • Ri_Khan
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    Vote with your money folks. It's the only thing that matters to these companies and the only way you can get them to listen.
  • Everstorm
    Everstorm
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    Good products sell themselves.
  • Violynne
    Violynne
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    Top AAA online games have to budget HALF all their income on Advertising.
    No, they don't.

    More importantly: advertising costs have gone down across the board.

    So while game prices remain high, and advertising rates have gone down, companies get more money.
    Personally it wasn't as big a deal as people made out.There are so many marketing ways to track consumers you probably don't even realize Your local grocery store keeps tabs on you.
    It was a huge deal because it was installed without consent. Yes, other places track our behavior, but we're aware of those behaviors and agree to them.
    ...the supermarket says customers "would only need to opt in" if Morrisons intended to send them any form of communication.
    Opt in. Key point.
    Maybe you didn't realize Your local T.V. provider can sell your browsing history.
    Browsing history is anonymized and doesn't point to a specific person. What ISPs sell is usage data to advertisers, who then take this information to create ads for those users.

    The "targeted" ad isn't targeting people, it's targeting their behavior.

    People who visit game sites will see an increase in game ads. Just watch any YouTube video featuring game content and read the description. 99% of the time you'll see an ad for the game being talked about.
    Consider this:DirecTV combines data it collects from viewing habits from its customers’ digital video recorders with information from third-party market researchers in categories such as income, gender, age and buying habits.
    Considering DirecTV doesn't have this information, that's not what his statement implied. Gender can be determined by the types of shows watched within a household. It's very likely women will watch "chick flicks" while men will use the internet to grab 10 seconds of those videos before returning to anything starring Aging Action Hero.
    Did you know the following information about you is accessible by your service provider at any time.
    All unencrypted IP packets: the addresses in the header, and the data payload.
    All unencrypted E-mails that are ever stored at their E-mail server.
    Did you know the majority of people just don't care? There are plenty of services, free mind you, people can easily use to prevent companies from obtaining this information, but consumers just don't care.

    As long as they "know".
    All unencrypted files you store in their web server (or "Cloud Storage" service). All encrypted files to which they have the encryption key.
    They do not have have the encryption key, and you should stop spreading FUD. Those who assign the key can unlock it. Just because the file exists doesn't mean it's available for companies to use. This statement makes it sound like companies can read encrypted files, and they can't.

    Just ask the FBI if you want validation on this.
    All IP Addresses you exchange traffic with, without exception (these cannot be encrypted because they are used to route the traffic and thus are subject to Traffic Analysis). This can be slightly mitigated with use of Virtual Private Networks, but that still will not mask how much data you’re moving, or when you’re moving it.
    True, but VPNs aren't designed to hide IP addresses. They're designed to prevent ISPs from knowing what data is being transferred.

    ISPs can't tell if the data transferred is from Netflix or from Steam, because they can't see the information contained. All they can see is where the data is going to and, of course, the VPN IP address.
    All E-mail addresses for correspondence you send/receive through their SMTP (E-mail) servers (as with IP addresses, these are used to route E-mail messages and must be unencrypted). Also subject to Traffic Analysis.
    All Domain Name System queries you make through their DNS name servers.
    Which every company does. Traffic analysis isn't as nefarious as you make it out to be. Companies require analytics to determine if their product/service is being used, and if not, why.
    If you stop and think about it The Marketing companies were trying to be helpful to you. "Hey We notice you like to call your Pizza in around 7 p.m. Friday evenings...We special offer yada yada yada just for you..."
    This is what you take away from privacy invading, no option to opt-out, and companies earning billions from your habits?

    As I said: consumers just don't care and this attitude is precisely why.
    You know what THE BIGGEST COST for a game is, hell any business...ADVERTISING.
    Actually, you're mistaken. The biggest cost is insurance.

    The "advertising represents the largest cost of business" is not true, it's never been true, and it will never be true.

    See, what you don't understand is this fallacy is used to create what's called "lost revenue", in which a company can claim "X to make a game (which includes advertising)", and when the game "fails", companies can write off the loss (which won't include advertising) to allow them to make a profit even if the game tanks.

    Every development has a fixed cost. This is recouped by a multiple number of factors, including game sales and licensing.

    With digital libraries offered by every game platform out there (Steam, Sony, Microsoft), "advertising" is 100% free. The game gets launched, and each will offer up the "latest arrival" listing to its users.

    The notion of "millions spent" on advertising is solely for the benefit of the company to manipulate losses and gains.

    Take Fallout 4 for example. Not a single penny had to be spent on advertising outside of E3, when it was announced.

    Anything that was: complete waste of money.
    That's just another person with their hand out trying just make an honest living keeping a notebook about what other people are up to.
    Knowing what people are up to is not the same thing as selling their data to profit.
    REDSHELL could've saved gamers and and game makers millions, the only mistake was not telling those on the targeted end that we would like to peruse your purchasing history of OUR PRODUCTS to better allocate The funds we use to know what to continue to make and what not to make.It all stayed in house, What gaming company wants to give up what you might like to buy?
    To think you're advocating Redshell would have saved gamers money shows you must be a Redshell shill. Do you work for the company? You must, because this is the biggest and most blatant lie spewed in your wall of text.

    Any time a company does something without telling its users, they're in the wrong. No ands, ifs, or buts.

    It's just damn lucky someone in the community discovered the BS ZoS tried to get away with.
    Lets look at the World as a Whole and in closing You might find this amusing and less threatening to Your Information comfort zone.
    My comfort zone is this: don't sell data which can be linked to me. Don't give my age, address, location, or any other "non-personal but easily identifiable" information.

    Simple. So why is it companies are being the arseholes about this.
    You read in The Headlines one day a Foreign country has accessed your banks information and may have targeted your account.
    What is this garbage? This has nothing to do with using deceptive practices to install software from users in order to cash in on advertising.
    Bottom line? Someday not too far in the Future... a Game that's a must have and if you don't have it your loser, The Game decides You can join, but here is what We need you to agree to...and from there depending on how bad you wanna play that game, you will be willing to put on clown shoes, ride a unicycle, and call yourself MARY! Just so you can have that game.
    They all ready got your attention focused to their world the size of hand held phone. VR and real time heart rate monitoring, instant brain wave mapping, and soon You won't even need a cord to plug in any more, all you need is a little chip behind your ear, and you take your gaming anywhere.
    You must have reached the bottom of the bottle by the time you got to this point.

    This entire paragraph just proved the point giving up personal information to play a game or we have no choice isn't a good thing.




    Edited by Violynne on June 19, 2018 11:24AM
  • AlnilamE
    AlnilamE
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    Personally it wasn't as big a deal as people made out.There are so many marketing ways to track consumers you probably don't even realize Your local grocery store keeps tabs on you.

    Here is selection from MORRISON FOODS : "We know that an anonymised card number paid for a particular basket of groceries one week and how much was spent with the same card number the following week," says a Morrisons spokesperson. "It means we know when customers are lapsing because we won't see their card for a week. We use it to measure the effectiveness of promotions and events."

    Supermarkets can use your card details to learn more about you.
    When asked whether its customers give permission for their card numbers to be tracked in this way, the supermarket says customers "would only need to opt in" if Morrisons intended to send them any form of communication.

    My grocery store can track what I buy *at their store*. But they don't know what I buy at the competition.

    Meanwhile, ZOS apparently can't even track what I have already purchased on my account and keeps advertising the same things I already bought. I think they need to work on that first before they decide they should track what I buy elsewhere without my permission...

    The Moot Councillor
  • Gythral
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    It always amazes me how much is spent on advertising the wrong thing to the wrong audience

    Which explains why AAA titles spend so much money when targetting correctly would allow them to spend less for a greater return.

    And it is not just game companies even the mightiest of retailers does the same thing
    “Be as a tower, that, firmly set,
    Shakes not its top for any blast that blows!”
    Dante Alighieri, The Divine Comedy
  • OutLaw_Nynx
    OutLaw_Nynx
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    What
  • JaZ2091
    JaZ2091
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    TL;DR.
    Edited by JaZ2091 on June 19, 2018 4:01PM
  • Jayman1000
    Jayman1000
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    A more interesting question though: Which costs more: advertizing or FIXING THE GOD DAMN STEAM LOGIN ISSUES?!?!?!?!?!?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • D0PAMINE
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    I don't care how much it costs, its a waste of money advertising a product to someone who already owns it.
  • WhiteCoatSyndrome
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    VR and real time heart rate monitoring, instant brain wave mapping, and soon You won't even need a cord to plug in any more, all you need is a little chip behind your ear, and you take your gaming anywhere.

    Or I could just buy a set of gaming dice and get the same result without the expensive electronics and/or invasive surgery.
    #proud2BAStarObsessedLoony
    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
    A useful explanation for how RNG works
    How to turn off the sustainability features (screen dimming, fps cap) on PC
  • Morgul667
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    Zell if they only reinvested a little bit of that in the game performance...
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