5 flaws with the criminal system and how to fix them

Soella · June 2018

You want to be good and PvP - you need PvP build and gear.
You want to be good and PvE - you need PvE build and gear.

You want to be good in thievery - you need thief's build and gear, that's simple. Do some investigation (you can get decreasing detect radius gear, you can achieve next to permanent invis as magblade, you can combine thievery and killing as assassin) and you find solution even if you are RPing.

I agree with OP in only one thing - it is shame to vendor purple trophies, can we get at least some use for them? I'd love to have a special display case furniture (gold design from thievery?), where I could display my collection of purple trophies, for example.

Bajatar · June 2018

The IMHO worst aspect hasn't been mentioned: it's very buggy.

Off the top of my hat:

You can get spotted through walls.

You can get multiple trespassing bounties from the same NPC within a few seconds.

Pickpocketing a moving NPC is basically a "desync me from the server" button. For example if you pickpocket someone they stop moving for you but keep walking on the server or vice versa. Sometimes NPCs start spinning around and end up looking in different directions on your end and on the server. Which leads to situations where they are out of range even if you're right next to them, they spot you even if you're behind them or you cannot use the Blade of Woe because the server doesn't think you're behind them. Should you somehow manage to use the Blade of Woe their body sometimes cannot be looted because it's again "out of range".

Gythral · June 2018

As fair as I can tell there are actually 5 flaws with the criminal, most of which are L2P solved

Violynne · June 2018

SirGabenOfSteamia wrote: »

1: Allow Pirharri to launder on top of her fencing, and remove the loss of profits when selling to her.

No the launder, yes to the 30% fee removal. Pirharri's purpose is to take our goods and fence them, not launder them. I don't want these items back. If I want to keep any, I'll launder them myself.

There's no better feeling than carrying around a stolen blueprint worth 100k and getting caught along the way by a guard because you were seen by someone when breaking and entering that is linked telepathically with guards around all of Tamriel, and then can't get though the door to the Outlaw's Refuge because you had to flee and getting hit a single time means your brain forgets how to turn handles.

You call yourself a Master Thief. You're an embarrassment. You deserve to lose those treasures, amateur.

Get better thieving. Pro-tip: fence before you quest.

2: The bounty system is absolutely terrible.

As a NB, I forget some of you have issues sneaking about.

The reason I find the bounty system absolutely terrible: how the #$%#$@ does a guard in Riften know I stole a banana in Grahtwood. More importantly: why was this ridiculous theft reported across all of Tamriel?

3: Getting hit by a guard should not mean losing ability to go through doors.

Thieve better, "master".

4: Add a number of legendary contraband items to sell/launder for gold.

5k fence (plus 10%) will make this Master Thief very happy.

5: Make all contraband items have a purpose or into furnishing items.

No, thank you. I don't want my guests wondering why I kept a book about sexual positions in my collection (because who could sell a book like this).

Now, I'd like to add a fix offering:
6: Remove the confirmation to sell while fencing.
These are useless items, so why the confirmation?

Merlin13KAGL · June 2018

Fame
Infamy
Everything (good & bad that comes with it

35% is too much (the 'risk of losing everything' counterargument is a joke. Not like it's ever been hard to get to a Thieve's Guild refuge)
Bounty system is just an annoyance. It doesn't really keep anyone that is determined from going anywhere. If anything, it's asinine that someone just stolen from has goldfish memory and will happily interact with me 5 minutes later.
There should be chance of escape, whether it's a timed % thing (similar to pickpocketing chance) or whatever. In the same breath, pursuit shouldn't necessarily end as soon as you're on the other side of the door.
The drop chance of gold items would hardly be worth the implementation.
Some items would be worthy of display. Same with Monster trophies though (collections).

TheShadowScout · June 2018

SirGabenOfSteamia wrote: »

1: Allow Pirharri to launder on top of her fencing, and remove the loss of profits when selling to her.

Nope.
That is the price you pay when the merchants comes to you instead of when you come to the merchant - a discount for their trouble.
Don't want to sell at reduced rate? Go to the outlaw refugee.
Don't want to go to the outlaw refugee? Sell at reduced value.

Want to launder something? Go to the outlaw refugee.
Don't want to go to the outlaw refugee? Sell it instead. At reduced value.

Those are the choices!
Make your choice.

But don't go all "gimme crowd" on us by demanding to have the best of both worlds so you no longer need to choose...

As for useless... the only reason you call her is to unload low-value crap clogging up your inventory so you can keep on thieving.

And as for getting caught with something good... don't.
Or if you do, use your TG "clemency" to keep your ill gotten gains, and then stop your thieving spree for the day.
But mostly, don't get caught.
Steal smarter, not harder!

SirGabenOfSteamia wrote: »

2: The bounty system is absolutely terrible.

Yes.
Yes, it is.
Especially how it carries over to other alliances who by all rights should cheer you for burglaring their enemies.
And especially how easily the guards forget that murder spree yesterday.
And most of all, how the punishments for getting caught are pretty meaningless for players.
But that is why some of us want more justice: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/384538/for-great-justice/p1

But you seem to be talking mostly about trespassing...
...and that is all right for the most part, -except- that it seems noone ever goes to sleep!

Yes, B&E should be trespassing and get them to yell for the guard if they spot you doing it, who will somehow magically recognize you as the criminal as they -obviously- use magical investigation methods, like testimony from aetherius (aka, asking the dead for their witness report) to determine your guilt since even if you murderdeathkill everyone, the guards still know you are criminal scum right away...

All that is okay.
Crime -needs- to have risks, or it becomes way too easy.

But it ought to be balanced by having a time where people in houses are sleeping (like, for example, for one hour out of six real-time in the middle of the game-night...), and you can sneak in and steal as long as you are quiet about it (unless the house has a dog, but I totally would have the TG sell you drugged sausages to take care of that, or a magical alarm thing, which the TG totally should sell scrolls for to deal with, etc.), and avoid the patrolling "night watch" guards in the streets (who technically should stop -everyone- at nighttime for interrogation, which would make for great teamwork opportunities - your accomplice lets themselves be spotted by the guard, then keeps them locked in conversation while you break into the house behind the guards backs... wouldn't that be fun for an MMO?), yes?

Also, with that in mind, it would make sense to add more to the burglary system. Like... trapped lockboxes, where you get a second minigame to disarm the trap, which could do anything from jabbing a poisoned needle at the unlucky lockpicker to sound an alarm that wakes up everyone so they call for the guards and the would be burglar gets bounty-fied... and there could be two kinds of traps, mechanical and magical, for two different kinds of new minigames... and the magical minigame could also be reused for other stuff, magical barriers that they could refit to many places... (and for those who do not like minigames, the thieves guild might start selling "unlock", "trap removal" and "seal dispelling" scrolls for a not-so-modest fee...)
I mean, just think of how much more fun the game would be if there were all those extra options! When you had to make more of an effort! (which of course would need to be balanced by more on an payoff as well, naturally)

SirGabenOfSteamia wrote: »

3: Getting hit by a guard should not mean losing ability to go through doors.

No, it should mean instant death if you turn towards the door while the guard is after you. Since that is what showing your back usually boils down to, but since that would be even more vexing, the developers decided to go with a "can't open that door, the guard/citizen is there to stab you!" instead.

Don't like it? Don't thieve in banks. That's the higher risk, that if you do get spotted, your chances of excape are almost nil (in some larger houses you can lead the guard on a merry chase then jump over a railing and get to the door just as the "has been hit" timer counts down and before the guard comes back to hit you again, but its iffy)

You do realize that criminal activities ought to come with a certain amount of risk, right? And it is only logical that banks would have guards to make the risk higher for any would be robbers... that's the whole point of a bank after all!

And hightened security in Sumerset -does- in fact fit with the lore. After all, those stuck up altmer will be extra careful now that grubby outsiders were allowed into their sacred and oh so high and glorious home, right? (but that also makes thievery more fun there, because f... uhm... stick it to those stuck up high elves for thinking they are all better then the rest of us!:p )

That being said...
...the one thing that IS missing is a way to "surrender" to an citizen (or guard for that matter) attacking you (like, automatic prompt at half health for example), so you only get the punishment for the thievery you were spotted at, and not stack murder onto it for successfully fighting back... that ought to be your own choice, not a fiat by the game system!

SirGabenOfSteamia wrote: »

4: Add a number of legendary contraband items to sell/launder for gold.

Definitely!
Some places should have better stuff, and occasionally some really good stuff. Especially "noble home" type of places.
I for one would love it if crime became more risky (see link above), but also more rewarding!

Also, the thievery should not be this limited to "treasure" items. More other stuff as well, please. And -especially- more set jewelry and items... I mean, if your thievery does not net you rings and necklaces from a noble ladies jewelry box, or a magic sword from a noble lords weapons rack, something seems wrong, right?

Heck, I would even want to see a monster helm and shoulder show up on some very rare exceptional rolls in a nobles house, from some heroic ancestory, etc. It would only make sense, yes?

I would also love way more loot tables, like having greater chances of finding random motiv pages and basic crafting resources (metal ingots, cloth & leathers, sanded wood, etc.) when burglaring crafter shops/homes, or such, while stealing from banks ought to net you more chance at increased gold rewards and precious stones or metals (trait and jewelry crafting mats), and in mages guilds there should be a greater chance for runes or potions...

The rarest and best finds ought to be stuff that usually only comes as Bind-on-Pickup reward for dungeon completions and stuff, in BoE version so the master thieves can launder and sell it at their guild store for massive profits!

...

Though when talking about stuff found in other peoples homes... reduce the lockpicks. It makes absolutely no sense at all that every farmer should have lockpicks in their nightstand somewhere... remove them from all in-world containers except thieves troves, and make them for sale in the outlaw refugee instead.

SirGabenOfSteamia wrote: »

5: Make all contraband items have a purpose or into furnishing items.

Maybe not all, but... it IS vexing when you steal a "chamber pot" or something, but have to sell it since you cannot take it for yourself, yes? Well, okay, maybe not that used chamber pot, but... there are other things where people cannot help but think "I want to display this in my home!", right?

JumpmanLane wrote: »

I’d just add let me be able to kill the guards. Make them DLC vet dungeon boss strong and let me take my chances; but, IMMORTAL? What’s the point.

The point is to prevent larger guilds from completely bypassing the criminal system by slaughtering all the guards in a town.

But I agree, they could have done it in better ways.

Like, not make the guards immortal, but instead give them an "arrest" spell that only works on criminal scum (aka, characters with a bounty), which the guards will fire off if they hit half health... and that wraps attacking characters in unbreakable "chains of stendarr" ready to be carted to the judge or something... that way the guard still seems mortal, but still can serve their purpose...
Oh, well. Maybe they will change it someday, not like it would be a big thing for them to do...

redshirt_49 · June 2018

Simple, kill all the witnesses before looting. They might have some goodies anyway. The blade of woe is your friend.

DenMoria · June 2018

Dern Khajiit. No wonder I like to wear fur so much!

delenn35 wrote: »

I read the whole post.

I agree with all of it.

Yes, I have chosen a life of crime... but it was my mother who taught me how to steal.

Seriously though, all of your suggestions make crime more realistic. Every one of your points, I’ve often wondered about myself.

DenMoria · June 2018

JumpmanLane wrote: »

SirGabenOfSteamia wrote: »

Ok so, recently I've started getting into the whole thievery aspect of the game. Its not that I haven't before gotten into it before because in fact, I have about 510k/1mil on my crafter done for black market mogul, but rather because its extremely unprofitable in the amount of time required to gain a large sum of gold or furnishing plans. I'd like to offer a set of points I've thought up that I'd like to believe would improve the system if they were implemented into the game.

So here's 5 things that I believe should be reworked to make the criminal system 10x more profitable and worthwhile to take part in:

1: Allow Pirharri to launder on top of her fencing, and remove the loss of profits when selling to her.
This is a little bit of a personal problem of mine rather than a problem with the criminal system, but as of right now, Pirharri is a completely useless assistant. Yeah, I get it, you can always just teleport out of a house or whatever whenever you want to a place like Sentinel where there's a clear path to the Outlaw's refuge, but still. There's nothing I love more than lugging around 10k or 15k worth of greens and blues and selling it all to Pirharri for 65% percent of what its worth. You know that feeling of when something new comes out a you sell it for what you think is a good price, but then a few hours later someone finds the same item and sells it for 35% more than what you got instantly? Yeah, well its like that but all the time with this assistant. Why would I use Pirharri when I can only sell 140 items a day and I'm grinding for Mogul? I thought assistants were supposed to be helpful... whatever.

I also believe that Pirharri should be able to launder goods. There's no better feeling than carrying around a stolen blueprint worth 100k and getting caught along the way by a guard because you were seen by someone when breaking and entering that is linked telepathically with guards around all of Tamriel, and then can't get though the door to the Outlaw's Refuge because you had to flee and getting hit a single time means your brain forgets how to turn handles.

2: The bounty system is absolutely terrible.
At first, I didn't mind it, but with the addition of the Thieves' Guild's B&E system, it starts to get a little tiresome. So how it works it that, in basically any DLC or chapter zone since the release of the Thieves' Guild DLC, breaking and entering a house will mean you are trespassing. Trespassing is a nice way of saying "if anyone at all sees you, you're screwed" ---- Instant 240+ gold bounty. There's no way of getting rid of this bounty unless you pay off a guard/fence, or use an amnesty edict. You can't kill the NPC who saw you with a blade of woe to get rid of the bounty like in Skyrim, its just there until your Swiftly Forgotten gets rid of it for you.

Now, this hasn't always been a huge problem for me, but since the addition of Summerset its really been getting on my nerves. NPCs with set paths have unpredictable movements, like starting to walk in one direction and then half way through the room just pivoting 180 degrees without stopping and walking back as if they forgot where they wanted to stand; 5+ NPCs in a single household mean that you're almost bound to get caught by a single one of them eventually; 2 NPCs in the same room who have like 1 minute cycles which mean either waiting 3 minutes for them to get separated to pickpocket one of them once because you have to wait for the success percentage to turn green to even have a chance because more often than not an 80% chance at pickpocketing will get you detected either way.

Just please, get rid of the trespassing system, make it so that killing witnesses remove bounties, make it so that an NPC will have to actually report to a guard to get a bounty on you, or reduce how much gold the bounty is so that it doesn't take 10 minutes to wear off with swiftly forgotten.

3: Getting hit by a guard should not mean losing ability to go through doors.
Its not happened to me often, but I've been caught in a tight space like the Riften Bank more than once by a guard and then have to kite him around the room hopelessly waiting for the "X to open door" prompt to appear while the guard's damage gets exponentially higher (why is that a thing?).

Just let me open door damn it! And please, please make it so that guards don't have the ability to do 30k in one hit if they're aggro'd for too long.

4: Add a number of legendary contraband items to sell/launder for gold.
As of right now, the only legendary-quality treasures are the "lore-heavy" (if they can be called that) gold lootables required for the Master Thief title and the gold treasures you get for completely vet HM trials. Would be cool if we could find golds around the world in safeboxes and wardrobes or whatever to sell for an exceedingly high amount of gold like the HM treasures. I'd love to see some lootable Daedric artifacts or relics from other games.

5: Make all contraband items have a purpose or into furnishing items.
I know this is a lot to ask for, but you have these hundreds of stolen items all with their own descriptions and some with unique inventory icons, and absolutely nothing to do with them other than sell them. Purple contraband items are ridiculously important when it comes to lore (Scute of the Mock Turtle, Piece of Volendrung's Handle, Half-shard of Sunder) and yet all we do is just sell them away as soon as we get them. I've seen several discussions brought up on these forums about a real desire to have these items become a part of our houses, as a sort of trophy. I too share this desire and would love to put up some sick lore-heavy items in my townhouse!

Thanks for reading, hope you agree on some of my points.

I read the whole post and agree with it all. I’d just add let me be able to kill the guards. Make them DLC vet dungeon boss strong and let me take my chances; but, IMMORTAL? What’s the point. Fully buffed, my MagDk can go toe to toe with them and my StamDK could probably wipe a whole NPC town. Then, suddenly one shot. It sucks.

Confidentially... they're not really guards. They're synths imported from Fallout 4. Beep...beep...beep...

DenMoria · June 2018

SirGabenOfSteamia wrote: »

idk wrote: »

1. Having Pirharri reduces the risk we take which is why there is a "fee" for using her to launder. That is not a flaw. Risk is reduced because we can launder to her when we have a bounty instead of risking losing everything.

2. The bounty system is fine. Especially with the TG passive where the bounty goes down very fast the little 200 bounty is near nothing. Do not like it, do not get caught. It really is that simple.

3. Whenever we have received damage recently we cannot go through doors. Use the tools available to all of us in this situation . Invisibility potion. Oh, do not get nabbed by the guard when using this or you get pulled out.

The last two points are not worth mentioning after the first three. It does not seem OP has found flaws in the system but really just wants the small bit of resistance to be removed and have it all become meaningless.

It also seems OP is good at getting a bounty and the idea is to not get that bounty to start with.

ZoS: "Let's add a system that's nets players about 20k every 3 non-stop hours of farming, not update it at all after a year and a half, and then make it impossibly difficult and frustrating to accomplish!"

Fanboys: "Yeah there's nothing wrong with that, I mean my friend who's farming geysers is making 50k an hour but that's his choice. I prefer the former."

Real people: making 50k an hour noises

Well it wouldn't be much of an accomplishment if it was easy.

DenMoria · June 2018

LTP !???!

Gythral wrote: »

As fair as I can tell there are actually 5 flaws with the criminal, most of which are L2P solved

redshirt_49 · June 2018

DenMoria wrote: »

SirGabenOfSteamia wrote: »

idk wrote: »

1. Having Pirharri reduces the risk we take which is why there is a "fee" for using her to launder. That is not a flaw. Risk is reduced because we can launder to her when we have a bounty instead of risking losing everything.

2. The bounty system is fine. Especially with the TG passive where the bounty goes down very fast the little 200 bounty is near nothing. Do not like it, do not get caught. It really is that simple.

3. Whenever we have received damage recently we cannot go through doors. Use the tools available to all of us in this situation . Invisibility potion. Oh, do not get nabbed by the guard when using this or you get pulled out.

The last two points are not worth mentioning after the first three. It does not seem OP has found flaws in the system but really just wants the small bit of resistance to be removed and have it all become meaningless.

It also seems OP is good at getting a bounty and the idea is to not get that bounty to start with.

ZoS: "Let's add a system that's nets players about 20k every 3 non-stop hours of farming, not update it at all after a year and a half, and then make it impossibly difficult and frustrating to accomplish!"

Fanboys: "Yeah there's nothing wrong with that, I mean my friend who's farming geysers is making 50k an hour but that's his choice. I prefer the former."

Real people: making 50k an hour noises

Well it wouldn't be much of an accomplishment if it was easy.

Plus, you know, people have a tendency to turn every game mechanic in this game into a farm of some sort. Even if they weren't intended for that in the first place.

DenMoria · June 2018

True, but, even I have to admit that I farm. Can't help it. I NEED that stuff! I just NEED it!

redshirt_49 wrote: »

DenMoria wrote: »

SirGabenOfSteamia wrote: »

idk wrote: »

1. Having Pirharri reduces the risk we take which is why there is a "fee" for using her to launder. That is not a flaw. Risk is reduced because we can launder to her when we have a bounty instead of risking losing everything.

2. The bounty system is fine. Especially with the TG passive where the bounty goes down very fast the little 200 bounty is near nothing. Do not like it, do not get caught. It really is that simple.

3. Whenever we have received damage recently we cannot go through doors. Use the tools available to all of us in this situation . Invisibility potion. Oh, do not get nabbed by the guard when using this or you get pulled out.

The last two points are not worth mentioning after the first three. It does not seem OP has found flaws in the system but really just wants the small bit of resistance to be removed and have it all become meaningless.

It also seems OP is good at getting a bounty and the idea is to not get that bounty to start with.

ZoS: "Let's add a system that's nets players about 20k every 3 non-stop hours of farming, not update it at all after a year and a half, and then make it impossibly difficult and frustrating to accomplish!"

Fanboys: "Yeah there's nothing wrong with that, I mean my friend who's farming geysers is making 50k an hour but that's his choice. I prefer the former."

Real people: making 50k an hour noises

Well it wouldn't be much of an accomplishment if it was easy.

Plus, you know, people have a tendency to turn every game mechanic in this game into a farm of some sort. Even if they weren't intended for that in the first place.

Orange_fire_dragon · June 2018

For number 4: there are the bounty sheets that you can get from guard pockets? they are gold tier stuff

NoTimeToWait · June 2018

While I am being irritated by the issues mentioned in the first post from time to time, I think they add certain dangers to thievery. Having stolen more than 2 mil worth of goods (the ones that count towards achievement) across all of my alts, I would say that most of it is l2p issue.

And there is only one rule: do not get caught. If you believe that chances you get caught are high, plan escape route.

That's all. In many hours of thieving I was killed by guards less than 10 times. And more than half of them were due to inexplicable amount of damage from single blow (maybe it was exponential growth you mentioned, rarely experienced by me).

The only thing I would agree is that Pirharri (gosh, had to look up her name) is completely useless. Would like to see laundering functionality added or a bit smaller percentage for her services

Also, I would like to be able to store or display some stolen collectibles too (some of them are quite interesting)

Asha_11_ESO · June 2018

So you want to reap the rewards of engaging in criminal activity, without any of the risk or inconvenience? I don't agree.

However, your last point about the treasures being useful items or furnishings, is something I'd LOVE to have. It would be simply effing amazing to have achieves related to all of the various stolen items, and be able to display them in our own dens of thievery. Museum style, so you can click on them and read the flavour text.

Kiralyn2000 · June 2018

I think the one thing I can agree with is that it's annoying the number of "sneak like a thief" quests they've added to the regular zone quests that I keep ending up having to do on my not-sneaky-like-thief characters.

The rest of it..... nah.

(I'm also fine with how much profit can be made thieving vs trade guilding. Thievery is much higher profit for me, since I've never sold anything via trade.)

Katahdin · June 2018

The only thing Pirrarhi is good for is a house decoration. She is one of the inhabitants of my thieves cave

Korah_Eaglecry · June 2018

Radinyn wrote: »

Stealing is bad, you hear it from a Khajiit.

Yes, just borrow. Borrowing totally legal.

idk · June 2018

SirGabenOfSteamia wrote: »

idk wrote: »

1. Having Pirharri reduces the risk we take which is why there is a "fee" for using her to launder. That is not a flaw. Risk is reduced because we can launder to her when we have a bounty instead of risking losing everything.

2. The bounty system is fine. Especially with the TG passive where the bounty goes down very fast the little 200 bounty is near nothing. Do not like it, do not get caught. It really is that simple.

3. Whenever we have received damage recently we cannot go through doors. Use the tools available to all of us in this situation . Invisibility potion. Oh, do not get nabbed by the guard when using this or you get pulled out.

The last two points are not worth mentioning after the first three. It does not seem OP has found flaws in the system but really just wants the small bit of resistance to be removed and have it all become meaningless.

It also seems OP is good at getting a bounty and the idea is to not get that bounty to start with.

ZoS: "Let's add a system that's nets players about 20k every 3 non-stop hours of farming, not update it at all after a year and a half, and then make it impossibly difficult and frustrating to accomplish!"

Fanboys: "Yeah there's nothing wrong with that, I mean my friend who's farming geysers is making 50k an hour but that's his choice. I prefer the former."

Real people: making 50k an hour noises

You can all us fanboys because we see past such trivial comments for what they really are. It really did not make sense anyhow.

It is certainly not impossibly difficult. Many of us deal with thieving in game every day and seem to accomplish this without frustration.

It comes down to figuring out how to do it well. Not having the system nerfed into oblivion so it is silly easy.

Edit: it has not been updated because it does not need to be. It is easy as it is.

Malacthulhu · June 2018

I think the system is pretty good as far as making gold/furnishings go. You just have not got to the point to realize how your suggestion would be just a tad over the top. Btw black market mogel is really no big deal, they shoupd add more tiers to the achievement. I do agree with Pirharri being nothing more a npc house deco furnishing as far as functionality goes so any changes there are probably welcomed. I would love to see bounties go down slower but be seperated by zone, and a system where npc bounty hunters try to hunt you down.

BejaProphet · June 2018

I'm not sure about the specific suggestions, but the OP and the thread definitely makes me realize the justice system could use a reimagining.

I'm not saying it should be more forgiving. I just think that if they really put their heads to it they could make it more fun. More fun BOTH to succeed AND to get caught.

I'm for the justice system getting a once-over.

Tan9oSuccka · June 2018

I agree only with the assistant. It’s so useless, I usually don’t even place her in my homes.

Everything else. Meh.

HybrisCross · June 2018

Some improvment are needed, like more realistic reaction from npc.

But not in a way to mkae it easy, robbery need to be harder, it's just too easy to spam Kari'sjob or emptying a town.

Moreover, they are sometimes not enough space for thief job (coz other thieves, or killers making theirs stuff in our area ), so with your system, it will be thief everywhere to get money.

DenMoria · June 2018

1) To easy - as soon as you go in to sneak, everybody should be suspicious, especially if you're one of those folks that stays in sneak all the time. We can see you, you know. This is the market district and you're only squatting down.
2) You steal something and get caught, you die. Period. No excuses.
3) You kill someone and get caught, you die. Period. No excuses.
4) If I call the guards and get caught, they kill you. Period. No excuses.
5) When you die, I get all your stuff and that includes everything in your bank and everything in your bag and all your pets, mounts, property and furnishings. Hey! Maybe that'll larn' ya! Okay, it can all be turned over to you guild, that's fine. They deserve for having to put up with an evil b***** like you!

And finally, at least for me: If you get caught and you die, you are permanently dead. Period. No excuses. No resurrection. The character is over and done with forever.

That'll make being a thief/assassin/a**hat a challenge.

SirGabenOfSteamia · June 2018

idk wrote: »

SirGabenOfSteamia wrote: »

idk wrote: »

1. Having Pirharri reduces the risk we take which is why there is a "fee" for using her to launder. That is not a flaw. Risk is reduced because we can launder to her when we have a bounty instead of risking losing everything.

2. The bounty system is fine. Especially with the TG passive where the bounty goes down very fast the little 200 bounty is near nothing. Do not like it, do not get caught. It really is that simple.

3. Whenever we have received damage recently we cannot go through doors. Use the tools available to all of us in this situation . Invisibility potion. Oh, do not get nabbed by the guard when using this or you get pulled out.

The last two points are not worth mentioning after the first three. It does not seem OP has found flaws in the system but really just wants the small bit of resistance to be removed and have it all become meaningless.

It also seems OP is good at getting a bounty and the idea is to not get that bounty to start with.

ZoS: "Let's add a system that's nets players about 20k every 3 non-stop hours of farming, not update it at all after a year and a half, and then make it impossibly difficult and frustrating to accomplish!"

Fanboys: "Yeah there's nothing wrong with that, I mean my friend who's farming geysers is making 50k an hour but that's his choice. I prefer the former."

Real people: making 50k an hour noises

You can all us fanboys because we see past such trivial comments for what they really are. It really did not make sense anyhow.

It is certainly not impossibly difficult. Many of us deal with thieving in game every day and seem to accomplish this without frustration.

It comes down to figuring out how to do it well. Not having the system nerfed into oblivion so it is silly easy.

Edit: it has not been updated because it does not need to be. It is easy as it is.

Listen, I make gold off of this too. You're acting like the whole reason I made this post was because I'm unable to make anything at all, because I keep getting caught. But the truth of the matter is, I do make gold and a lot of the time I don't get caught.

There's a reason why half the time all the safeboxes in a city aren't looted, and if they are, its only in the most active cities in the game. That's because people see a safebox and they open it just to get the gold out of them at this point, nothing more. I very often come across unlocked safeboxes in places like Wayrest and Mournhold that still have greens and blues in them.

My arguments are mostly based around the fact that anyone at all, no matter their level or passives or whatever can make more gold off of a single geyser than 10 minutes of stealing they don't get caught, so in the end, there is no actual reason to steal anything unless you want the ultra-rare golds furnishings or blueprints, and its easier to get blueprints off looting dungeons with a lot of urns than spending 2 hours trying to get one going from house to house stealing.

My post isn't a cry for help, but a cry for change. The justice system is lacking, boring, and ultimately nothing more than a 500 hour grind of going back and forth over the course of 100 days to make enough money off of selling contraband in order to get Black Market Mogul. There's nothing special that you can get from stealing other than the average homestead items that have been in the game since homestead launch, and blueprints, which like I said before can be farmed much easier in safer places.

To make the justice system worthwhile, things don't need to be "nerfed into oblivion," but rather buffed in the player's favour:
- more gold per stolen item
- removal of the sell limit per day
- addition of a launder option for Pirharri (because yes, despite what you think, wayshrining to an Outlaw's den or running to one from somewhere does take away from possible profits when you're only getting less than 1k for that green blueprint or less than 5 for that blue or less than 10 for that purple).
- Witness system so that I can get rid of my bounty without going to a fence or a guard or using an edict when i get seen through walls by NPCs and get a bounty or detected when the stealth eye isn't even open
- reworking of the NPCs in Summerset so they don't walk in one direction for a few feet and then pivot 180 degrees without stopping because their pathing is screwed up
- addition of gold contraband that can be sold for 10k like HM trial trophies
- changing certain contraband items into usable furnishings or runeboxes, thereby rewarding players for stealing rare and sought-after goods as a sort of trophy for their actions (Dwemer red mountain standard as a parlor decoration or Akaviri Dragonguard Burial Mask as a wearable style or hat for example).
- Ability for characters to function properly when getting hit by a guard. After all that's happened to my toon I doubt my motor functions are so severely damaged by a single hit that my character forgets how to open a door .

There are so many ways to change the system for the better! It doesn't even need to be made easier, it just needs to be made worthwhile! That's exactly why you hardly ever see anyone in any houses you break into, or see unopened safeboxes in the busiest areas of the game. Its because its just. not. worth. it!

If you think I'm upset because I've lost a couple grand worth of contraband or a diagram or whatever, I'm really not. What I'm upset about is needing to pay bounties for no other reason than because ZoS made it so. Trust me when I say that I'm not involving myself in the justice system because I want gold.Since the release of Summerset, I've noticed a heightened drop rate on contraband purples, which is huge for me because I've always been a collector.

As of right now I have 27 of these extremely lore-important, future-elder-scrolls-changing artifacts like a piece of Volendrung that is just collecting dust, sitting in a coffer in my home. Why? Well, to tell you the truth, I don't know. I'm not just gonna sell it away, I can't find it in myself to do so.

And as much as this whole discussion arose from selfishness and a want for these artifacts to have an actual reason for keeping, its shared just as much by many other members of the criminal community.

OmniDo · June 2018

Guards are a Joke.
I have Rapid Maneuver, Cowards Gear, and I'm a nightblade on top of it all.
I dont get killed by guards, ever.
Heck, I dont even get caught by them, since I can just blitz away, immune to their infinite-ranged root, and chain-cloak to break their aggro if necessary.
In fact, my latest thrill has been to use guards as blood-bags to lower my vampire stages while laughing all the way to the closest outlaw-refuge entrance.
Whats a 109 gold bounty to me? Pfff nothing.
I only have 300+ pardon edicts and about the same number of leniency edicts.
Bounty? What bounty?

But as for the OP's suggestions about Pirharri, yeah. Worthless.
I use her usually as a caged-decoration in my homes, but never to fence anything.

DamenAJ · June 2018

SirGabenOfSteamia wrote: »

idk wrote: »

SirGabenOfSteamia wrote: »

idk wrote: »

1. Having Pirharri reduces the risk we take which is why there is a "fee" for using her to launder. That is not a flaw. Risk is reduced because we can launder to her when we have a bounty instead of risking losing everything.

2. The bounty system is fine. Especially with the TG passive where the bounty goes down very fast the little 200 bounty is near nothing. Do not like it, do not get caught. It really is that simple.

3. Whenever we have received damage recently we cannot go through doors. Use the tools available to all of us in this situation . Invisibility potion. Oh, do not get nabbed by the guard when using this or you get pulled out.

The last two points are not worth mentioning after the first three. It does not seem OP has found flaws in the system but really just wants the small bit of resistance to be removed and have it all become meaningless.

It also seems OP is good at getting a bounty and the idea is to not get that bounty to start with.

ZoS: "Let's add a system that's nets players about 20k every 3 non-stop hours of farming, not update it at all after a year and a half, and then make it impossibly difficult and frustrating to accomplish!"

Fanboys: "Yeah there's nothing wrong with that, I mean my friend who's farming geysers is making 50k an hour but that's his choice. I prefer the former."

Real people: making 50k an hour noises

You can all us fanboys because we see past such trivial comments for what they really are. It really did not make sense anyhow.

It is certainly not impossibly difficult. Many of us deal with thieving in game every day and seem to accomplish this without frustration.

It comes down to figuring out how to do it well. Not having the system nerfed into oblivion so it is silly easy.

Edit: it has not been updated because it does not need to be. It is easy as it is.

Listen, I make gold off of this too. You're acting like the whole reason I made this post was because I'm unable to make anything at all, because I keep getting caught. But the truth of the matter is, I do make gold and a lot of the time I don't get caught.

There's a reason why half the time all the safeboxes in a city aren't looted, and if they are, its only in the most active cities in the game. That's because people see a safebox and they open it just to get the gold out of them at this point, nothing more. I very often come across unlocked safeboxes in places like Wayrest and Mournhold that still have greens and blues in them.

My arguments are mostly based around the fact that anyone at all, no matter their level or passives or whatever can make more gold off of a single geyser than 10 minutes of stealing they don't get caught, so in the end, there is no actual reason to steal anything unless you want the ultra-rare golds furnishings or blueprints, and its easier to get blueprints off looting dungeons with a lot of urns than spending 2 hours trying to get one going from house to house stealing.

My post isn't a cry for help, but a cry for change. The justice system is lacking, boring, and ultimately nothing more than a 500 hour grind of going back and forth over the course of 100 days to make enough money off of selling contraband in order to get Black Market Mogul. There's nothing special that you can get from stealing other than the average homestead items that have been in the game since homestead launch, and blueprints, which like I said before can be farmed much easier in safer places.

To make the justice system worthwhile, things don't need to be "nerfed into oblivion," but rather buffed in the player's favour:
- more gold per stolen item
- removal of the sell limit per day
- addition of a launder option for Pirharri (because yes, despite what you think, wayshrining to an Outlaw's den or running to one from somewhere does take away from possible profits when you're only getting less than 1k for that green blueprint or less than 5 for that blue or less than 10 for that purple).
- Witness system so that I can get rid of my bounty without going to a fence or a guard or using an edict when i get seen through walls by NPCs and get a bounty or detected when the stealth eye isn't even open
- reworking of the NPCs in Summerset so they don't walk in one direction for a few feet and then pivot 180 degrees without stopping because their pathing is screwed up
- addition of gold contraband that can be sold for 10k like HM trial trophies
- changing certain contraband items into usable furnishings or runeboxes, thereby rewarding players for stealing rare and sought-after goods as a sort of trophy for their actions (Dwemer red mountain standard as a parlor decoration or Akaviri Dragonguard Burial Mask as a wearable style or hat for example).
- Ability for characters to function properly when getting hit by a guard. After all that's happened to my toon I doubt my motor functions are so severely damaged by a single hit that my character forgets how to open a door .

There are so many ways to change the system for the better! It doesn't even need to be made easier, it just needs to be made worthwhile! That's exactly why you hardly ever see anyone in any houses you break into, or see unopened safeboxes in the busiest areas of the game. Its because its just. not. worth. it!

If you think I'm upset because I've lost a couple grand worth of contraband or a diagram or whatever, I'm really not. What I'm upset about is needing to pay bounties for no other reason than because ZoS made it so. Trust me when I say that I'm not involving myself in the justice system because I want gold.Since the release of Summerset, I've noticed a heightened drop rate on contraband purples, which is huge for me because I've always been a collector.

As of right now I have 27 of these extremely lore-important, future-elder-scrolls-changing artifacts like a piece of Volendrung that is just collecting dust, sitting in a coffer in my home. Why? Well, to tell you the truth, I don't know. I'm not just gonna sell it away, I can't find it in myself to do so.

And as much as this whole discussion arose from selfishness and a want for these artifacts to have an actual reason for keeping, its shared just as much by many other members of the criminal community.

Making stolen items worth more will not actually fix the issue of making more money from a geyser vs. stealing, it will just cause more inflation, because there is more gold in the game, and the stolen items have a fixed gold price, whereas the items from geysers have an ever changing gold price because they're bought by PLAYERS. Geyser stuff is valuable to people, who will just pay more if there is more gold.

In real life, people do not walk in predictable straight lines. The forget stuff, turn around, get lost in thought, drift. Etc. Again, in real life, someone would PURSUE you through a door, and not just give up because they got too far from their post. So unless you want them to chase you through the doors, and chase you farther, take the door trouble.

Being caught through walls should be fixed, yes. It's clearly a glitch. And yeah, it'd be cool to have some contraband items as furnishings. But most of what your asking for is pointless.

Swimguy · June 2018

make an alt and get an insanely high bounty. just be careful not to die LOL