Add Major Brutality to Snipe to Make it a Better PVE Option? I Think it's Worth Discussing

GrumpyDuckling · June 2018

I have been trying to think about ways in which Snipe could effectively fit into a PVE rotation so it could become a skill more worthy of consideration, and adding Major Brutality is so far the only thing I could come up with without drastically changing the way the skill works. It would allow for damage during the buff rotation, and also allow archers who don't have access to Major Brutality through class skills, a different option for potion use.

How might a change like this affect PVP? I figure it wouldn't matter for most players since Momentum (already gives Major Brutality) is so valuable/common that Major Brutality on Snipe really wouldn't change much. Thoughts?

Brutusmax1mus · June 2018

If you're not using brutality / savagery pots in pve what are you doing?

Oakmontowls_ESO · June 2018

^ Alternatively they could have a morph apply a dot and have no/shorter cast time.

GrumpyDuckling · June 2018

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

If you're not using brutality / savagery pots in pve what are you doing?

A statement like this^ is kind of the point.

Snipe could be potentially used in the rotation, and other types of potions could be considered.

Skayaq · June 2018

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

If you're not using brutality / savagery pots in pve what are you doing?

A statement like this^ is kind of the point.

Snipe could be potentially used in the rotation, and other types of potions could be considered.

Most stam builds don't have a free slot for snipe, and there are no other potion effects that are useful enough to use all the time.

exeeter702 · June 2018

Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »

^ Alternatively they could have a morph apply a dot and have no/shorter cast time.

Snipe cast time already encompasses the GCD, any shorter and it would literally have to be an instant cast ability.

GrumpyDuckling · June 2018

Skayaq wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

If you're not using brutality / savagery pots in pve what are you doing?

A statement like this^ is kind of the point.

Snipe could be potentially used in the rotation, and other types of potions could be considered.

Most stam builds don't have a free slot for snipe, and there are no other potion effects that are useful enough to use all the time.

Potions with Sustain, Speed, Defenses, and Healing Received could offer decent alternatives for certain mechanics. However, you're right in saying that most of the time those aren't useful enough.

I wonder if Snipe could find its way into a rotation (if given Major Brutality) in dungeon builds without DKs (no igneous weapons) on bow/bow builds without class or ranged access to Major Brutality (such as Nightblade and Templar). It's pretty specific, I know, but at least it would provide more options.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · June 2018

Snipe is already the highest DPS range spammable in the game. And you want to buff it? Come on, get real. If they were to put major brutality on a bow skill, it would have to be Magnum shot. No one uses it and it would give it a reason to be on someones bar. But really though, you give up access to the buff in the skill line for supposedly safer combat, being ranged. So there ought to be trade-offs and that is a good one for that skill line. Whether you feel that is fair or not, that is up to you but that is the way it is.

And besides, as everyone says, use pots.

GrumpyDuckling · June 2018

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Snipe is already the highest DPS range spammable in the game. And you want to buff it? Come on, get real. If they were to put major brutality on a bow skill, it would have to be Magnum shot. No one uses it and it would give it a reason to be on someones bar. But really though, you give up access to the buff in the skill line for supposedly safer combat, being ranged. So there ought to be trade-offs and that is a good one for that skill line. Whether you feel that is fair or not, that is up to you but that is the way it is.

And besides, as everyone says, use pots.

I don't understand your "get real" comment. It's a buff in PVE, yes, because Snipe doesn't get much use.

I assume your comment is mainly concerning PVP, but would it really be that much of a buff in PVP? Momentum already gives Major Brutality and is such an essential stamina skill for HOT that most stam builds are running it and have access to the buff anyway. So I'm not really sure why you're opposed.

Magnum isn't currently built as a skill for damage (its more utility with CC, movement, and heal), so I'm not sure why a DPS would slot that anyway. Snipe makes more sense.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · June 2018

.I don't understand your "get real" comment. It's a buff in PVE, yes, because Snipe doesn't get much use.

I assume your comment is mainly concerning PVP, but would it really be that much of a buff in PVP? Momentum already gives Major Brutality and is such an essential stamina skill for HOT that most stam builds are running it and have access to the buff anyway. So I'm not really sure why you're opposed.

Um, no, I am a pver. I have a bow/bow warden that gets 30k DPS easy. If I was better at light attack weaving, that would go up a ton. Snipe is the best range spammable. Bar none. Learn about bow/bow gameplay-
.https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/381498/everything-needed-to-know-about-bow-bow-in-pve/p1

Snipe gets plenty of use.

Magnum isn't currently built as a skill for damage (its more utility with CC, movement, and heal), so I'm not sure why a DPS would slot that anyway. Snipe makes more sense.

I am aware of what Magnum shot is. I am also aware it has no use in pve. This would give it one. Even if you had to get close to get the buff.

Your comment about rally is flat wrong. Two-handers are hardly seen in pve, first off, and second no serious DPS is running it. They use pots. Just like every other DPS.

And you are saying snipe makes sense for major brutality, it is like you are saying it makes sense for wrecking blow to get it as well. That makes zero sense.

GrumpyDuckling · June 2018

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

.I don't understand your "get real" comment. It's a buff in PVE, yes, because Snipe doesn't get much use.

I assume your comment is mainly concerning PVP, but would it really be that much of a buff in PVP? Momentum already gives Major Brutality and is such an essential stamina skill for HOT that most stam builds are running it and have access to the buff anyway. So I'm not really sure why you're opposed.

Um, no, I am a pver. I have a bow/bow warden that gets 30k DPS easy. If I was better at light attack weaving, that would go up a ton. Snipe is the best range spammable. Bar none. Learn about bow/bow gameplay-
.https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/381498/everything-needed-to-know-about-bow-bow-in-pve/p1

Snipe gets plenty of use.

Magnum isn't currently built as a skill for damage (its more utility with CC, movement, and heal), so I'm not sure why a DPS would slot that anyway. Snipe makes more sense.

I am aware of what Magnum shot is. I am also aware it has no use in pve. This would give it one. Even if you had to get close to get the buff.

Your comment about rally is flat wrong. Two-handers are hardly seen in pve, first off, and second no serious DPS is running it. They use pots. Just like every other DPS.

And you are saying snipe makes sense for major brutality, it is like you are saying it makes sense for wrecking blow to get it as well. That makes zero sense.

I think you misunderstood. Read the post again. I'm talking about Momentum in PVP, not PVE.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · June 2018

. I think you misunderstood. Read the post again. I'm talking about Momentum in PVP, not PVE.

One paragraph you insult me by assuming that that I am a pvper then when I clarified, you continue to talk about PvP. which is it man?

GrumpyDuckling · June 2018

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

. I think you misunderstood. Read the post again. I'm talking about Momentum in PVP, not PVE.

One paragraph you insult me by assuming that that I am a pvper then when I clarified, you continue to talk about PvP. which is it man?

I didn't know it was an insult to assume your comments might also consider PVP (we do play a game where balance decisions influence both PVE and PVP).

I was responding to add clarification to your comment in which you said, "Your comment about rally is flat wrong. Two-handers are hardly seen in pve, first off, and second no serious DPS is running it. They use pots. Just like every other DPS."

My original comment about Momentum being essential was talking about its status in PVP, not PVE, which you appeared to mistake it as. I merely pointed out that you were arguing against a point that I never made.

Toc de Malsvi · June 2018

There are not any other really good options from potion combinations for PVE to supplant Major Brutality, Major Savagery, and stamina return. A change like this would be more beneficial for bow builds in PVP rather than PVE simply because it would open up a few more build options. I don't know that there really is a good skill for Major Brutality in the Bow skill line.

Snipe is a very efficient skill cost to damage, which is why it requires a cast time to not be the best spammable in the game. It is unfortunately not very productive though because of the cast time and associated snare. It does make its way into rotations though and you can do solid dps with it even in melee. IMHO the better place to argue for Major Brutality is in the Fighters Guild line.

A spammable within the bow skill line that would scale with Hawk Eye passive would be nice for PVE but relatively useless for PVP where you need the delayed burst from Snipe. Changing one of the morphs of Snipe to be a really short cast 0.5 sec, or instant would likely appease both crowds from PVP to PVE.

GrumpyDuckling · June 2018

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

There are not any other really good options from potion combinations for PVE to supplant Major Brutality, Major Savagery, and stamina return. A change like this would be more beneficial for bow builds in PVP rather than PVE simply because it would open up a few more build options. I don't know that there really is a good skill for Major Brutality in the Bow skill line.

Snipe is a very efficient skill cost to damage, which is why it requires a cast time to not be the best spammable in the game. It is unfortunately not very productive though because of the cast time and associated snare. It does make its way into rotations though and you can do solid dps with it even in melee. IMHO the better place to argue for Major Brutality is in the Fighters Guild line.

A spammable within the bow skill line that would scale with Hawk Eye passive would be nice for PVE but relatively useless for PVP where you need the delayed burst from Snipe. Changing one of the morphs of Snipe to be a really short cast 0.5 sec, or instant would likely appease both crowds from PVP to PVE.

Good point about Major Brutality on snipe potentially opening up more PVP builds. Bow + Dual Wield, maybe? It's definitely possible now, but it would make it a bit easier, as someone could open with snipe instead of flying blade or relying on a potion. Momentum would be hard to give up, but Blade Cloak could help to compensate for the lost healing with less AOE damage taken.

Jowrik · June 2018

I like how you think but adding Major Brutality wouldn't magically make Snipe more used in PVE more than it already is (I too run double bow (NB)). Potions are still your best choice because some passives boost the use for them (i.e. Nightblade passive Catalyst (Siphoning line): After drinking a potion, you gain 8 Ultimate.)

A buff for PVE Snipe (Focused Aim) might be to add a 'increases all AoE (or single target) damage by 5% (random not-too-OP number)" debuff on the target (doesn't exist in the game AFAIK), or have Focused Aim do more damage when 5 stacks of Hawk Eye are on the player (this would give incentive to use a bow on two bars, since you lose the stacks when barswapping to another weapon and would motivate you to weave your light attacks properly to maintain the 5 stacks as much as possible).

They could also just remove the Long Shots passive and either:
- Add some % based Armor Penetration depending on distance
- Add a flat amount of Armor Penetration
- Add a "Increase all AoE damage by 10% (random not-too-OP number) with a bow equipped".

Either way, I think the problem with Bow PVE comes from this passive mostly. 3% more damage at 10m, 7% more damage at 20m and 12% at 24m. In PVE, you hardly ever want to be further away than 15m.

Snipe (Focused Aim) is in an okay spot at this point, in vTrials i'm able to get about 48k (thank you Relequen).
You don't ever want Lethal Arrow in PVE unless you have atleast 60% of other poisondamage skills slotted, which is pretty much never.

Slack · June 2018

Make it instant, add major brutality and major berserk to it and turn it into oblivion damage

Bhaal5 · June 2018

Only thing that should happen to snipe is

If recasted within 6 sec, cost increases 50%

Oreyn_Bearclaw · June 2018

How does adding a redundant PVE buff make it better for PVE? If you dont care about min/maxing, its already viable to run a snipe build. If you do care about min/maxing, you run potions. Period.