ZOS - We need a statement about servers

OGLezard · June 2018

I say scrap this game and bring out elderscrolls online 2 using someone else's engine that is known to work and be stable, better network code, actual anti cheat software, and a well structured subscription model with a well rounded focus group dedicated to listening and implementing proper feed back from players.

dbgager · June 2018

Sorry but 100ms is not 1 second but it is 1/10th of a second. 1000 ms is 1 second. mili= 1/1000, micro = 1 millionth, nano = 1 billionth, pico = 1 trillionth. A latency of 100 is not going to cause major issues. Some MMOs have latency indicators that show certain colors. I believe WOW is one of those. It didn't even turn yellow till 300 I believe and red at 500.

The servers are located in a certain place. If you happen to be a long ways from the server and have to go through many hops to get there your going to have a longer than average time to get there. 120ms is slightly over 1/10th of a second. It is not several seconds . If the trip was several seconds the ping would be 2000 or more. And there is really no way to fix ping times. They take as long as the take. And your ping to a Speedtest Server really has no bearing on how long it takes to get to an entirely different server. Speedtest could be 2 hops away..The ESO server could be 25. My latency is 100 and I live in the US. That is a pretty normal latency. 1/10 of a second is not going to effect reaction time perceptibly. If you want immediate reaction put your PC in the same room with the server or at worst next door. But since that is not feasible if you play an MMO don't expect it. Your packet is most likely traveling thousands of miles through multiple servers who have to confirm the destination of your packet and then send it on its way. It miraculous in the first place that it can even happen in 1/10th of a second. If you have a latency of 100 you have no issue and there is nothing you can probably do to make it less. It takes how long that it takes. If you had a latency of 1000 or more then you have an issue.

Casterial · June 2018

OGLezard wrote: »

I say scrap this game and bring out elderscrolls online 2 using someone else's engine that is known to work and be stable, better network code, actual anti cheat software, and a well structured subscription model with a well rounded focus group dedicated to listening and implementing proper feed back from players.

I COMPLETELY AGREE AT THIS POINT!

dbgager wrote: »

Sorry but 100ms is not 1 second but it is 1/10th of a second. 1000 ms is 1 second. mili= 1/1000, micro = 1 millionth, nano = 1 billionth, pico = 1 trillionth. A latency of 100 is not going to cause major issues. Some MMOs have latency indicators that show certain colors. I believe WOW is one of those. It didn't even turn yellow till 300 I believe and red at 500.
.

You read 1/5th of the post. That's cool. I was saying the indicator is messed up and saying we are at like 150 even though it feels far more than that. It feels like its a good 1500-2500.

I don't care for being 100-200, if the 100-200 was correct feeling of a semi-nano second delay... But its not buddy.

Not too sure if you play the game or even walk into Cyrodiil because it seems like you defended ZOS saying this is normal for an MMO. Hell WvW GW2 and even PRIVATE SERVERS with 2500+ online in one zone on WOW have ms of 50-100 with no delay.

SDraconis · June 2018

Watching my ESO brothers and sisters struggle with Cyro Lag + Bugs is like listening to a rich Beverly housewife telling herself that her billionaire playboy hubbie hasn't been cheating on her. Let us be very clear about one thing: ZOS hears us and knows exactly what they're doing with their Cyrodill experience.

On one hand, it feels pretty good pointing our fingers at Wrobel and Firor. Yet in the end they are nothing but yes-men. Pawns in a sick corporate game where the Publisher and the Developer are working together to squeeze you for every penny (RedShell).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bethesda_Softworks

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZeniMax_Media

This is like having two branches of government that enable each other's corruption instead of holding each other accountable for their bad behavior.

As a result of this monopoly in the chain of command, we see a complete lack of accountability and good faith for Zenimax's customers. Case in point: one of our best and busiest streamers Kodi took time to annotate and upload bug lists to forums:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/385622/sword-board-ultimate-bug-5-elder-scrolls-online-clockwork-city

NONE of us will be surprised to learn that ZOS hasn't touched the bugs yet, but somehow they found time to ban Kodi for trying to take a slice of the pie. Twice.

No PvP experience is perfect, but if we want Cyrodill to be less of a joke, we have to stand up for these things and call ZOS out on their BS.

The new Class Representative program? FREE PR to help placate an increasingly unhappy player base. (Hint they exposed their true intentions for the program in their disclaimer when they said they can't guarantee any suggestions from Reps will be brought to fruition.) If ZOS was truly interested in adopting feedback from the community, does anyone here really believe they'd risk their image by adding that tidbit in their disclaimer?

I've played this game for years--I love the spirit of the game, I love the players. But the sun is getting low on Zenimax's complacency. This flavor of corporate BS is simply unsustainable in a democratic market with free speech and grassroots potential.

dbgager · June 2018

Casterial wrote: »

OGLezard wrote: »

I say scrap this game and bring out elderscrolls online 2 using someone else's engine that is known to work and be stable, better network code, actual anti cheat software, and a well structured subscription model with a well rounded focus group dedicated to listening and implementing proper feed back from players.

I COMPLETELY AGREE AT THIS POINT!

dbgager wrote: »

Sorry but 100ms is not 1 second but it is 1/10th of a second. 1000 ms is 1 second. mili= 1/1000, micro = 1 millionth, nano = 1 billionth, pico = 1 trillionth. A latency of 100 is not going to cause major issues. Some MMOs have latency indicators that show certain colors. I believe WOW is one of those. It didn't even turn yellow till 300 I believe and red at 500.
.

You read 1/5th of the post. That's cool. I was saying the indicator is messed up and saying we are at like 150 even though it feels far more than that. It feels like its a good 1500-2500.

I don't care for being 100-200, if the 100-200 was correct feeling of a semi-nano second delay... But its not buddy.

Not too sure if you play the game or even walk into Cyrodiil because it seems like you defended ZOS saying this is normal for an MMO. Hell WvW GW2 and even PRIVATE SERVERS with 2500+ online in one zone on WOW have ms of 50-100 with no delay.

If it says 150 then its 150 They are not trying to fraud you . If you have large pauses you have other issues not related to latency. What are your specs. They have not installed a fake latency counter for the Cyodil area. Its using the same engine as the rest of the game. The thought is ridiculous. And 150 is not an issue...

Casterial · June 2018

dbgager wrote: »

Casterial wrote: »

OGLezard wrote: »

I say scrap this game and bring out elderscrolls online 2 using someone else's engine that is known to work and be stable, better network code, actual anti cheat software, and a well structured subscription model with a well rounded focus group dedicated to listening and implementing proper feed back from players.

I COMPLETELY AGREE AT THIS POINT!

dbgager wrote: »

Sorry but 100ms is not 1 second but it is 1/10th of a second. 1000 ms is 1 second. mili= 1/1000, micro = 1 millionth, nano = 1 billionth, pico = 1 trillionth. A latency of 100 is not going to cause major issues. Some MMOs have latency indicators that show certain colors. I believe WOW is one of those. It didn't even turn yellow till 300 I believe and red at 500.
.

You read 1/5th of the post. That's cool. I was saying the indicator is messed up and saying we are at like 150 even though it feels far more than that. It feels like its a good 1500-2500.

I don't care for being 100-200, if the 100-200 was correct feeling of a semi-nano second delay... But its not buddy.

Not too sure if you play the game or even walk into Cyrodiil because it seems like you defended ZOS saying this is normal for an MMO. Hell WvW GW2 and even PRIVATE SERVERS with 2500+ online in one zone on WOW have ms of 50-100 with no delay.

If it says 150 then its 150 They are not trying to fraud you . If you have large pauses you have other issues not related to latency. What are your specs. They have not installed a fake latency counter for the Cyodil area. Its using the same engine as the rest of the game. The thought is ridiculous. And 150 is not an issue...

350MB/S down, 30MB/S Up, hard wired
new m.2 series (ESO here) drive
500GB ssd
2TB HDD
i7 6800k overclocked to 4ghz, 6 core
3200 MHz 32GB RAM
1070 8GB Vram

Sorry its not me. Its them. I'm in the silicon valley. I suggest you queue up for something around 3:30PM - 5PM PST and start to watch the delay get worse and worse, also I suggest reading others post.

If this came off as rude, sorry but its true. I can't explain enough how there is some desync issue happening. Frames are fine, ping is fine but then out of the blue in a middle of a fight my ping jumps to 800+ and I just can't.. Sometimes its not even that, sometimes 20+ people get disconnected.

DenMoria · June 2018

I never realized that this is such a problem. I knew about Cyrodil, of course, it's always been bad, but, now that I think about it, I only just restarted after more than a year off and y'all are right. Randomly I'll suddenly go to load screen and then come back and I'm not even doing anything and there aren't that many people around (I'm restarting from the very beginning zones) and there is stuttering regularly.

Sheesh. I would have thought they'd have gotten this straightened out by now.

Casterial · June 2018

DenMoria wrote: »

I never realized that this is such a problem. I knew about Cyrodil, of course, it's always been bad, but, now that I think about it, I only just restarted after more than a year off and y'all are right. Randomly I'll suddenly go to load screen and then come back and I'm not even doing anything and there aren't that many people around (I'm restarting from the very beginning zones) and there is stuttering regularly.

Sheesh. I would have thought they'd have gotten this straightened out by now.

I think its something they did to make the dual processing, that or its truly that a surge of players are back for the expansion, but that wont last... I'm not sure, cyrodiil is lower in population than ever before but has issues more than ever.

dbgager · June 2018

Casterial wrote: »

dbgager wrote: »

Casterial wrote: »

OGLezard wrote: »

I say scrap this game and bring out elderscrolls online 2 using someone else's engine that is known to work and be stable, better network code, actual anti cheat software, and a well structured subscription model with a well rounded focus group dedicated to listening and implementing proper feed back from players.

I COMPLETELY AGREE AT THIS POINT!

dbgager wrote: »

Sorry but 100ms is not 1 second but it is 1/10th of a second. 1000 ms is 1 second. mili= 1/1000, micro = 1 millionth, nano = 1 billionth, pico = 1 trillionth. A latency of 100 is not going to cause major issues. Some MMOs have latency indicators that show certain colors. I believe WOW is one of those. It didn't even turn yellow till 300 I believe and red at 500.
.

You read 1/5th of the post. That's cool. I was saying the indicator is messed up and saying we are at like 150 even though it feels far more than that. It feels like its a good 1500-2500.

I don't care for being 100-200, if the 100-200 was correct feeling of a semi-nano second delay... But its not buddy.

Not too sure if you play the game or even walk into Cyrodiil because it seems like you defended ZOS saying this is normal for an MMO. Hell WvW GW2 and even PRIVATE SERVERS with 2500+ online in one zone on WOW have ms of 50-100 with no delay.

If it says 150 then its 150 They are not trying to fraud you . If you have large pauses you have other issues not related to latency. What are your specs. They have not installed a fake latency counter for the Cyodil area. Its using the same engine as the rest of the game. The thought is ridiculous. And 150 is not an issue...

350MB/S down, 30MB/S Up, hard wired
new m.2 series (ESO here) drive
500GB ssd
2TB HDD
i7 6800k overclocked to 4ghz, 6 core
3200 MHz 32GB RAM
1070 8GB Vram

Sorry its not me. Its them. I'm in the silicon valley. I suggest you queue up for something around 3:30PM - 5PM PST and start to watch the delay get worse and worse, also I suggest reading others post.

If this came off as rude, sorry but its true. I can't explain enough how there is some desync issue happening. Frames are fine, ping is fine but then out of the blue in a middle of a fight my ping jumps to 800+ and I just can't.. Sometimes its not even that, sometimes 20+ people get disconnected.

Latency has little to do with internet speed..Very little. It is entirely related to how long many hops are between you and the server. These packets and responses the data contained are very small. Even at slow internet speed they get to your PC and are entirely processed in microseconds or even nanoseconds. The limiting factor is latency not internet speed...unless you are operating at ancient speeds of say 56k. Its like sending a letter. It is entirely controlled by the speed of the servers you have to pass through. The speed moving between those servers is insignificant.

Casterial · June 2018

dbgager wrote: »

Internet speed has little to do with latency..Very little. It is entirely related to how long many hops are between you and the server. These packets and responses the data contained are very small. Even at slow internet speed they get to your PC and are entirely processed in microseconds or even nanoseconds. The limiting factor is latency not internet speed...unless you are operating at ancient speeds of say 56k.

Everyone is experiencing this issue and we know its not us at this point. We all know/understand its ZOS and we really want an answer or someone to look into this. They fixed the stuttering, now I just want this fixed.

dbgager · June 2018

Casterial wrote: »

dbgager wrote: »

Internet speed has little to do with latency..Very little. It is entirely related to how long many hops are between you and the server. These packets and responses the data contained are very small. Even at slow internet speed they get to your PC and are entirely processed in microseconds or even nanoseconds. The limiting factor is latency not internet speed...unless you are operating at ancient speeds of say 56k.

Everyone is experiencing this issue and we know its not us at this point. We all know/understand its ZOS and we really want an answer or someone to look into this. They fixed the stuttering, now I just want this fixed.

The first sentence was written incorrectly in my post. What I meant was Latency has little to do with internet speed. Not sure why I typed it backwards. As I i explain it however you can see that is what I meant.

Casterial · June 2018

dbgager wrote: »

Casterial wrote: »

dbgager wrote: »

Internet speed has little to do with latency..Very little. It is entirely related to how long many hops are between you and the server. These packets and responses the data contained are very small. Even at slow internet speed they get to your PC and are entirely processed in microseconds or even nanoseconds. The limiting factor is latency not internet speed...unless you are operating at ancient speeds of say 56k.

Everyone is experiencing this issue and we know its not us at this point. We all know/understand its ZOS and we really want an answer or someone to look into this. They fixed the stuttering, now I just want this fixed.

The first sentence was written incorrectly in my post. What I meant was Latency has little to do with internet speed. Not sure why I typed it backwards. As I i explain it however you can see that is what I meant.

I need the thumbs up emoji

DanteYoda · June 2018

valeriiya wrote: »

gootdude wrote: »

Since they have no idea how to fix it, they'll completely ignore all these posts.

ZOS only responds when they can fix things, which is why they only respond to the simplest bugs.

They only respond when it might impact their $$$ which is why they prioritize the Crown Store over PvP

Well when a lot of customers leave because they can't play the game.. That effects the crown store.. I purchase on the crown store if i cannot play anymore because of server issues i move on and so does my wallet..

I assume many more will too.

LadyLethalla · June 2018

Re that article linked above about the Hero Engine... direct quote from Matt Firor:
"Also, our plan is to have ESO run on just about any PC or Mac – laptops included – that have been bought in the last five years."

Funny how it won't run on my laptop, which is less than 5 years old with an Nvidea GeForce GT 740M... last tested the spec probably about 9 months ago, when it was less than 4 years old.

Malmai · June 2018

ZOS doesnt give flying f.

ArcVelarian · June 2018

My only recommendation for people experiencing horrific latency is to reset your routers and to make sure there aren't any other devices or programs that could possibly be gobbling up your bandwidth.

Dredlord · June 2018

OGLezard wrote: »

I say scrap this game and bring out elderscrolls online 2 using someone else's engine that is known to work and be stable, better network code, actual anti cheat software, and a well structured subscription model with a well rounded focus group dedicated to listening and implementing proper feed back from players.

Sounds expensive....DENIED. - zos

Casterial · June 2018

DanteYoda wrote: »

Well when a lot of customers leave because they can't play the game.. That effects the crown store.. I purchase on the crown store if i cannot play anymore because of server issues i move on and so does my wallet..

I assume many more will too.

Agreed, no point in crowns if I can't play and use em!

LadyLethalla wrote: »

Re that article linked above about the Hero Engine... direct quote from Matt Firor:
"Also, our plan is to have ESO run on just about any PC or Mac – laptops included – that have been bought in the last five years."

Funny how it won't run on my laptop, which is less than 5 years old with an Nvidea GeForce GT 740M... last tested the spec probably about 9 months ago, when it was less than 4 years old.

They pretty much took this away this patch, however that was saying 5 years old in 2013.

ArcVelarian wrote: »

My only recommendation for people experiencing horrific latency is to reset your routers and to make sure there aren't any other devices or programs that could possibly be gobbling up your bandwidth.

No, this isn't a solution at all sadly. I can have nothing running, only one PC on and still get this. Speed test is fine.

Diminish · June 2018

ArcVelarian wrote: »

My only recommendation for people experiencing horrific latency is to reset your routers and to make sure there aren't any other devices or programs that could possibly be gobbling up your bandwidth.

Cant fix what ZoS controls. This is not a sudden issue with 100s of home routers. I'd love to see packet captures from whatever router(s) ZoS has their server attached to. With such poor latency from time to time it sounds to me like somewhere along the route (closer to the server-side since it is affecting such a large number or people) there is a capacity problem or a bad router. Overloading often results in packets being dropped/damaged/lost, and retransmissions to occur; which depending on the severity can wreak havoc on round trip times. Has anyone tried actually graphing an extended trace route over time using something like PingPlotter yet? I can fire it up tomorrow, and see how bad things really look.

Kel · June 2018

ArcVelarian wrote: »

My only recommendation for people experiencing horrific latency is to reset your routers and to make sure there aren't any other devices or programs that could possibly be gobbling up your bandwidth.

My game froze, and when I logged back in, I was the only one in my faction inside the keep. We had just entered to take it when the game froze.
This has nothing to do with bandwidth or routers, this is something wonky with the game servers. You can see in zone chat, most of the players I was with inside the keep got froze out too, not just me. It's a much broader issue than personal equipment.

https://youtu.be/NgOK0aOna0k

Dreyloch · June 2018

If you think Cyrodiil is bad now, just wait a month when Midyear Mayhem comes around. Sure, they might add a few more servers to help. But those that have played during that time in the past know it's going to be more than stupid how bad the ping and lag will get. Not to mention the long queue times.

Hundreds of threads about this subject. Hundreds more about the state of PvP altogether. From bugs that don't get fixed. Then DO get fixed, and come back the next patch. New bugs going un-fixed for months on end. Sets and class imbalance.

Yet here we are still passionate about the game trying to get them to fix it. Other games are coming. I know one I'm leaving ESO once CU beta is in a decently playable state. If it gets released by end of this year, PvP here will be gone. It'll be too late for ZoS to fix it, and those shareholders and marketing plebs will figure out the player base is what matters. NOT the crown store. New content is great, that's fantastic. But fix what ya got first. You can put a 100 gallons of new paint on rusted metal, but that quarter panel is still gonna fall right off the clown car!!!!

P.S> wish we could state our fustration with the appropriate words. Ya know, those 4 letter kind? Civil? There is no more civil after 4 years of this...FIX IT!!!!

Casterial · June 2018

Dreyloch wrote: »

If you think Cyrodiil is bad now, just wait a month when Midyear Mayhem comes around. Sure, they might add a few more servers to help. But those that have played during that time in the past know it's going to be more than stupid how bad the ping and lag will get. Not to mention the long queue times.

Hundreds of threads about this subject. Hundreds more about the state of PvP altogether. From bugs that don't get fixed. Then DO get fixed, and come back the next patch. New bugs going un-fixed for months on end. Sets and class imbalance.

Yet here we are still passionate about the game trying to get them to fix it. Other games are coming. I know one I'm leaving ESO once CU beta is in a decently playable state. If it gets released by end of this year, PvP here will be gone. It'll be too late for ZoS to fix it, and those shareholders and marketing plebs will figure out the player base is what matters. NOT the crown store. New content is great, that's fantastic. But fix what ya got first. You can put a 100 gallons of new paint on rusted metal, but that quarter panel is still gonna fall right off the clown car!!!!

P.S> wish we could state our fustration with the appropriate words. Ya know, those 4 letter kind? Civil? There is no more civil after 4 years of this...FIX IT!!!!

I agree, the loyal players are leaving probably when CU comes out unless ZOS really does step forward. Its sad, but we've been patient for the last 4 years.

GlorphNoldorin · June 2018

Many will leave ESO pvp if a better alternative comes along. However pvp is such a small slice of the game that I doubt ZOS will care anymore than they have done already,

craftycarper73 · June 2018

Zo$ official statement.

yep we know the servers are akin to a potatoe patch, but we dont have time to fix it, because were still counting your money you gave us for summerset.

More info will be given when we break the game somemore with our next crappy DLC.

red_emu · June 2018

Bam_Bam wrote: »

The much-hyped server improvements - what happened to them? When Summerset went live there was a definite improvement but since the first patch performance has been worse than ever.

The new hamsters lied on their resumes!

Abysswarrior45 · June 2018

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7J342xiBUo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMnEQyfcx28

Idinuse · June 2018

DenMoria wrote: »

I never realized that this is such a problem. I knew about Cyrodil, of course, it's always been bad, but, now that I think about it, I only just restarted after more than a year off and y'all are right. Randomly I'll suddenly go to load screen and then come back and I'm not even doing anything and there aren't that many people around (I'm restarting from the very beginning zones) and there is stuttering regularly.

Sheesh. I would have thought they'd have gotten this straightened out by now.

I'm sorry, but I don't agree with you on the bolded part. I've been playing since beta, and while the first months of the Live ESO had problems on various levels, last quarter of 2014 and almost the whole of 2015 was, for the most time, a smooth experience PvP wise. And this was on a Dual Core AMD CPU and an AMD HD5850 GPU with 4GB RAM on Win7 32bit. I have since upgraded all components in my rig by far, and have had worst performance latency/lag wise (not necessarily ping) ever for the last year.

Aurielle · June 2018

Casterial wrote: »

dbgager wrote: »

Internet speed has little to do with latency..Very little. It is entirely related to how long many hops are between you and the server. These packets and responses the data contained are very small. Even at slow internet speed they get to your PC and are entirely processed in microseconds or even nanoseconds. The limiting factor is latency not internet speed...unless you are operating at ancient speeds of say 56k.

Everyone is experiencing this issue and we know its not us at this point. We all know/understand its ZOS and we really want an answer or someone to look into this. They fixed the stuttering, now I just want this fixed.

This. I think it’s hilarious that people are trying to insist that performance issues experienced by a significant portion of the player base after a new patch are somehow user-end issues. I took a tentative step into Cyrodiil the other night and in the thirty minutes I was able to stomach it, experienced/witnessed: (1) multiple 5+ second screen freezes; (2) approximately 20 DC players frozen in place outside Sejanus; (3) frequent slideshows (no FPS counter on console, but I’m guessing it was about 2-5 FPS).

Performance was a problem before Summerset, but it was never this bad. I never had frequent screen freezes that would resolve themselves after a few seconds. Guild chat and zone chat is filled with many frustrated messages from people experiencing the same thing.

It. Is. Not. Us.

Summerset borked something, and I’d really like a fix soon. I spend a lot of money on this game, and I don’t appreciate being delivered poorly optimized content.

Numerikuu · June 2018

MusekininKanchou wrote: »

You insert these names like the care. Why? has anyone ever seen putting "@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Wrobel" or any Zos employee name in a thread work? The customer service sucks.

The servers may be unstable as all hell, but I stand with them in this case. They're human first and foremost. You try responding to god knows how many of those pings a day. It's literally impossible. Not to mention server stability isn't their field. They're probably well aware and have passed on the word. Best they can do.

Bonzodog01 · June 2018

Ok, the on screen freezing you are seeing is NOT lag, or latency or anything network related. The problem is a hand off issue in the games engine between worker threads. Its actually a consequence of the new patch to the engine to switch from single thread to multi-thread.

The consoles are expecting a patch to (hopefully) fix this issue on Tuesday next week.