ZOS - We need a statement about servers

Gnozo · June 2018

Bonzodog01 wrote: »

A LOT of the lag is being caused by the proc sets that ZOS keep on introducing to the game. Remove them and it will reduce the problem greatly. This incudes monster sets that work off procs. And that would reduce the lag by roughly half.

Part of the reason the game went multi-core was because of the dogged insistence by someone in upper management that they keep putting these sets in game, but the single thread engine was not going to be able to handle it.

The problem they are now facing is that the multi-thread is an adaption to the old single thread engine. A good multi-thread engine would need to be coded from the ground out, and even now, in the world of MMO's, multi-thread engines are like gold-dust.

This.

Not only the removal of proc sets from at least pvp would greatly improve Latency it would also improve Balance and salt.

I keep dreaming that this will happend.

MusekininKanchou · June 2018

You insert these names like the care. Why? has anyone ever seen putting "@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Wrobel" or any Zos employee name in a thread work? The customer service sucks.

Sweetare · June 2018

Bonzodog01 wrote: »

A LOT of the lag is being caused by the proc sets that ZOS keep on introducing to the game. Remove them and it will reduce the problem greatly. This incudes monster sets that work off procs. And that would reduce the lag by roughly half.

Part of the reason the game went multi-core was because of the dogged insistence by someone in upper management that they keep putting these sets in game, but the single thread engine was not going to be able to handle it.

The problem they are now facing is that the multi-thread is an adaption to the old single thread engine. A good multi-thread engine would need to be coded from the ground out, and even now, in the world of MMO's, multi-thread engines are like gold-dust.

whoa, you do realize that you just said has absolutely NOTHING to do with what this thread is about, not to mention that it is outright false.

PC Specs (CPU, graphics card, RAM) have NOTHING to do with server lag or ping issues (with the possible exception of WiFi cards).

The game went Multi-thread cause they are dropping support for older systems and using the advantages of modern CPUs and GPUs, this has NOTHING to do with server performance, or proc sets, or ping. The job they are doing splitting the main thread into workers threads is actually pretty damn good and a hard feat to achieve.

Pixel_Zealot · June 2018

My ping is 250 on a good day, easily jumps to 500+ in a crowded area. I haven't touched Cyrodil in years cause of the lag fest.

Bodži · June 2018

After Summerset release I had better performace in sense of higher FPS and good latency (and loading screens yes, but still better performance when fighting etc). After last release this week, I had problems with dungeons and Cyrodiil, huge ping spikes and disconnections, last night 5 disconnections in 90 mins in PVP and two normal random runs, both time disconnected.

MusekininKanchou · June 2018

Your PC and internet have nothing to do with this. I have no lag. Game runs fine. But still every other character I try to load ends up on an endless "Requesting Character Load..." screen. This is a server problem created with the patch on Monday that they don't want to admit to.

ol_BANK_lo · June 2018

Casterial wrote: »

As the title states,

Many of us that play in Cyrodiil on the daily are having horrendous issues and yet to hear any real feedback from any dev or even a mod...
Cyrodiil is on the verge of near unplayable, the servers are either disconnecting random players or the servers are just completely lag ridden. or Lag Ridden Thread(Main) Currently the lag is actually worse than our PING truly states.

-> Another server lag thread

Honestly its not just Cyrodiil at this point, this can be a general server thread about issues everywhere because even in Rawl my PING is sitting at 100, but it spikes to 120-130, sometimes 150.

I wont say anything needs to be done because that is the devs job to track down and fix issues. But will we be getting new servers, or will you be looking into the issue?

There are hundreds of PVP threads of people complaining about this issue and most, if not all of the threads "Z" responses are "We have removed..blabla...copy/paste" Instead of talking about the issue or taking part in the community.

Example:
175 ping - 1 second delay
200 ping - 2 second delay
250 ping - 2.5-3 second delay
etc... But sometimes this delay is multiplied by 3 or even 4 its horrible.

Before Summerset ping: 70-85, spikes to 120
After Summerset; average 100 even out of pvp.
I'm in California 350mb/s down, 30mb/s down internet speed.
My computer is hard wired, and my computer specs are no where near trash... Its to the point of where I can confirm its your end and not mine. I've even tried disabling addons to and played without addons... It did not help with the PING.

To those who will say "don't zerg" I don't zerg, I run on the side lines and often ahead of, or in different areas of the zerg but still get affected and pray to RNG that the other player gets the lag spike and not me so I can win. As a PVP player I really want to hear a response from ZOS about the recent increase in lag, not FPS but PING.

We have had a direct response related to the stuttering, which to be honest is no longer as present as the server issue.

ZOS_AlexTardif wrote:

Thanks everyone for the information! The stutter many of you are experiencing now is new with this patch. With the info and videos you have supplied, we've been able to track down the sources of these and are currently working on fixes that we'll get out as soon as possible. We've also discovered that if you have Game Mode turned on (Windows 10 users), it can significantly negatively impact the performance of the game with the Summerset patch, so it's worth double-checking if you have that enabled.

Additionally, when customer support recommends disabling your addons to help with framerate issues, that's not a blind recommendation. In practice through performance analysis...………………..

I'm sorry in all my years of playing this is one of the more unplayable states. I use to play when ping averaged 1k, but heck it was playable everything was on the client then!

You're never going to get the response you want. People have discussed this for years. Right now lots of people on all the time because there is a new chapter out. They are questing, grinding for trial gear, new people trying BGs. It's super laggy everywhere...especially primetime.

....again, you will never get the response you want.

ol_BANK_lo · June 2018

jcm2606 wrote: »

While my connection to the servers in general is just bad (Australian, with *** internet, and a household full of "moderate" users to top it all off), I can definitely tell that the servers have gotten worse. 2 years ago when I first joined the game my ping was always around 250-300, closer to 250. Now it hovers around 300-350 on average, with ping spiking whenever entering combat (before anybody says "maybe it's your connection", my group/guild mates who live in North America even feel the lag setting in the exact moment I do, so unless it's something with Akami's network slowing everyone's traffic, it has to be the servers).

At this point I'm both concerned and convinced that it isn't as simple as adding more servers; rather, the server-sided engine just isn't equipped for what the game has become. Looking back at threads 3+ years ago, it seemed that a lot of the computation was performed on the player's client, which meant that the servers / server-sided engine didn't have to deal with much. But obviously this made hacking possible, so Zenimax slowly started moving a lot of the computation over to the servers, increasing the load on them and the server-sided engine. If this is the case, this probably won't be fixed by simply throwing more servers at the game, especially in group-oriented zones/instances like Cyrodiil. It would probably require outright rewriting, or worse, redesigning the entire engine, both client and server. Which would effectively kill the game.

This may be why Zenimax is so quiet. If this is the case, they probably already know that there's nothing they can do short of redesigning the engine, and so don't want to admit it. Even if that was the case, simply giving us something would be better than the effective silence we get now.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Wrobel Maybe bring this up at some point? At least suggest that the team behind the engine itself, or wherever you guys think the think is, should let the community know what you guys think the problem is. Again, simply guessing on the cause, or outright stating the cause, is better than the effective silence we have now.

Also, for the record @Casterial, 150 ping isn't a 1 second delay. 1ms = 1/1000th of a second, so 150 ping is 0.15 seconds. I should know, I am forced to play the game at ~300 ping.

I agree. I believe they know what the problem is for the most part, and they know there is nothing they can do. I have heard from people that have been to ZOS that they just don't have the manpower to do all that needs to be done. This game seems to make a ton of money, so I'm not sure why they are so understaffed.

amir412 · June 2018

Another nice attempt to get a decent answer from ZOS related to the elephant in the room.
They will never answer, they dont care.

Mojmir · June 2018

Dont need a statement, need it fixed.

usmguy1234 · June 2018

I did a little digging and found a rumor that eso servers are in Texas. I found a ping test server in Texas to test my internet. Ping was less than 30. I don't think these issues are ping related because my game is literally unplayable.

Karivaa · June 2018

i am about done with ESO. I have played since Day 1. Every time they release an update, they break Cyrodiil. This has happened since Imperial City. Cyrodiil was finally fun and without lag until this update. Of course, that could be because not many people play anymore which is evident by the 3 campaigns.

Vapirko · June 2018

I can definitely say that battle grounds matches without lots of flashy proc sets like sloads, Zaan, skoria, thorvulkun, the one that summons a poison spitting creature, selenes etc function a hell of a lot better than ones that have those. There’s no doubt that getting rid of such sets would improve performance quite a lot.

Bhaal5 · June 2018

How about send them a message, stop your subscription and stop buying crown crates until they address the issues.
Enough is enough.

gootdude · June 2018

Since they have no idea how to fix it, they'll completely ignore all these posts.

ZOS only responds when they can fix things, which is why they only respond to the simplest bugs.

reiverx · June 2018

Guys, the purpose of the game is to keep the shareholders happy, not the players.

Casterial · June 2018

Bonzodog01 wrote: »

A LOT of the lag is being caused by the proc sets that ZOS keep on introducing to the game. Remove them and it will reduce the problem greatly.

We can't confirm this though. This is purely speculation.

shaielzafine wrote: »

It's definitely not just Cyrodiil. After months of infinite loading screens, extreme skill lag, general lag, game crashes, it's worse in general in overland doing writs & pve as well - getting lag spikes during trials, dungeons & even maelstrom arena! This is all on top of the regular bugs that were there already

Glad to hear its not just Cyrodiil.

jcm2606 wrote: »

Also, for the record @Casterial, 150 ping isn't a 1 second delay. 1ms = 1/1000th of a second, so 150 ping is 0.15 seconds. I should know, I am forced to play the game at ~300 ping.

I understand this, but the delay is much worse than 150 ping has every felt. I've played private servers of wow with average 350+ ping.. this is nothing like it.

gootdude wrote: »

Since they have no idea how to fix it, they'll completely ignore all these posts.
ZOS only responds when they can fix things, which is why they only respond to the simplest bugs.

They fix things? That's good, lets hope this is brought to their attention!

Bhaal5 wrote: »

How about send them a message, stop your subscription and stop buying crown crates until they address the issues.
Enough is enough.

They wont listen, half the playerbase is already gone.

Karivaa wrote: »

i am about done with ESO. I have played since Day 1.

Its sad because a lot of older players will be leaving due to this. My friendslist is already dead

Vapirko wrote: »

I can definitely say that battle grounds matches without lots of flashy proc sets like sloads, Zaan, skoria, thorvulkun, the one that summons a poison spitting creature, selenes etc function a hell of a lot better than ones that have those. There’s no doubt that getting rid of such sets would improve performance quite a lot.

We again cannot confirm this affects the server, TTC and MM do however affect PING.

amir412 wrote: »

Another nice attempt to get a decent answer from ZOS related to the elephant in the room.
They will never answer, they dont care.

Lets fix that. With this post!

usmguy1234 wrote: »

I did a little digging and found a rumor that eso servers are in Texas. I found a ping test server in Texas to test my internet. Ping was less than 30. I don't think these issues are ping related because my game is literally unplayable.

Texas / California now I believe? I ping at 15-20 ms to Texas... Its them not us.

Mojmir wrote: »

Dont need a statement, need it fixed.

Can't get a fix without them knowing its an issue and admitting it though.

BANK_IT_HERE wrote: »

I agree. I believe they know what the problem is for the most part, and they know there is nothing they can do. I have heard from people that have been to ZOS that they just don't have the manpower to do all that needs to be done. This game seems to make a ton of money, so I'm not sure why they are so understaffed.

They have many job openings, but its hard to keep a consistent staff on an MMO.

BANK_IT_HERE wrote: »

You're never going to get the response you want. People have discussed this for years. Right now lots of people on all the time because there is a new chapter out. They are questing, grinding for trial gear, new people trying BGs. It's super laggy everywhere...especially primetime.

....again, you will never get the response you want.

I'll get the response by being completely persistent with these devs until its answered. #FixServers lol. That's the thing, we discussed it for years but its deteriorating quicker.

Pixel_Zealot wrote: »

My ping is 250 on a good day, easily jumps to 500+ in a crowded area. I haven't touched Cyrodil in years cause of the lag fest.

Understandable!

Sweetare wrote: »

The game went Multi-thread cause they are dropping support for older systems and using the advantages of modern CPUs and GPUs, this has NOTHING to do with server performance, or proc sets, or ping. The job they are doing splitting the main thread into workers threads is actually pretty damn good and a hard feat to achieve.

Agreed, its something with the architecture that's causing all these issues now.

Bodži wrote: »

After Summerset release I had better performace in sense of higher FPS and good latency (and loading screens yes, but still better performance when fighting etc). After last release this week, I had problems with dungeons and Cyrodiil, huge ping spikes and disconnections, last night 5 disconnections in 90 mins in PVP and two normal random runs, both time disconnected.

That's crazy I watched 30+ DC Disconnect at Aleswell once on Sunday. I don't believe its just this weeks release.

MusekininKanchou wrote: »

You insert these names like the care. Why? has anyone ever seen putting "@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Wrobel" or any Zos employee name in a thread work? The customer service sucks.

They read them sometimes.

Casterial · June 2018

reiverx wrote: »

Guys, the purpose of the game is to keep the shareholders happy, not the players.

I don't believe this company is public.... Lol maybe their mother studio happy or just keep making money off of Elder Scrolls until VI then shut down after?

MusekininKanchou · June 2018

I think if that was the plan they wouldn't keep making content. My guess is marketing keeps saying they need content to sell so nothing gets done to make sure the game works.

Sandman929 · June 2018

Same story on console basically. I took a week off from PvP when Summerset arrived and just tried to go back last night. Now, I rarely gripe about lag, especially in a big fight. I don't like it, but I get it, it's never going to be perfect and I've only called the game "unplayable" twice so far; once when midyear mayhem made it impossible to get into Cyrodiil without waiting 2 hours (unplayable due to my impatience) and once when every single load screen was terminal (broken game).
What's happening right now is unplayable again and the game is just broken. Every single fight last night that involved more than 8 people present made the game freeze and often resulted in disconnecting.

VelociousLegend · June 2018

According to ZOS this was to be addressed in 2017 https://elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/25913

As for Cyrodiil: we know that performance (both server and client) is often not up to par, to put it mildly. These problems particularly plague Champion-ranked Campaigns and, coupled with some of the balance issues and bugs that are still present, result in an often-frustrating experience for some players. We will be addressing this in 2017 – from Champion System performance to class/armor balance to client/server performance in large battles. This is a priority for us, but as these issues are extremely complex, we will be re-thinking how some of the systems in the game interact with each other; changes of this magnitude cannot happen quickly.

Not sure if it is a priority at this point.

Casterial · June 2018

VelociousLegend wrote: »

According to ZOS this was to be addressed in 2017 https://elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/25913

As for Cyrodiil: we know that performance (both server and client) is often not up to par, to put it mildly. These problems particularly plague Champion-ranked Campaigns and, coupled with some of the balance issues and bugs that are still present, result in an often-frustrating experience for some players. We will be addressing this in 2017 – from Champion System performance to class/armor balance to client/server performance in large battles. This is a priority for us, but as these issues are extremely complex, we will be re-thinking how some of the systems in the game interact with each other; changes of this magnitude cannot happen quickly.

Not sure if it is a priority at this point.

They did a lot and summerset was a big fat undo.

valeriiya · June 2018

gootdude wrote: »

Since they have no idea how to fix it, they'll completely ignore all these posts.

ZOS only responds when they can fix things, which is why they only respond to the simplest bugs.

They only respond when it might impact their $$$ which is why they prioritize the Crown Store over PvP

Casterial · June 2018

valeriiya wrote: »

gootdude wrote: »

Since they have no idea how to fix it, they'll completely ignore all these posts.

ZOS only responds when they can fix things, which is why they only respond to the simplest bugs.

They only respond when it might impact their $$$ which is why they prioritize the Crown Store over PvP

Crown store is cool and all but everything is honestly marked up 25%+ I mean this motif is on sell for "4k crowns" but cost 10k gold in-game.

Gprime31 · June 2018

WE ARE “working on it” love zos

Bonzodog01 · June 2018

What I said about the proc sets stands, as nearly all calculations for them are done server side, thus creating the lag when they go off. Message queues are a thing, and proc sets more than double the length of those queues.

Also, the games CDN (Content Delivery Network) is hosted by Akamai in Dallas, Texas for the NA Servers, and Frankfurt, Germany for the EU servers.

Akamai are one of the worlds largest CDN's and have DDos mitigation that is amongst the best.

liviogc · June 2018

My dream is to have a ping below 300 fixed. The worst is not the value but the crazy variation.

Gprime31 · June 2018

I seem to recall some post talking about this game being tcp not udp.... so unless they rebuild the game from the ground up. Nothing will change ever. My guess this is why zos is trolling us in the issue.

Casterial · June 2018

Gprime31 wrote: »

WE ARE “working on it” love zos

But they aren't?

liviogc wrote: »

My dream is to have a ping below 300 fixed. The worst is not the value but the crazy variation.

In Cyrodiil I can sit at 100 comfortably... 200 is pushing it i'm sorry

Gprime31 wrote: »

I seem to recall some post talking about this game being tcp not udp.... so unless they rebuild the game from the ground up. Nothing will change ever. My guess this is why zos is trolling us in the issue.

Its their own game engine, their own architecture. This means they have the power.

BozzyTheDrummer · June 2018

Shoot, i'm on Xbox NA and the lag on my end is insane. Screen keeps freezing/stuttering every couple minutes and lasts for about 30 seconds, then goes away, then happens again.

Last night the lag was so bad, my toon was running, then all of the sudden my screen was frozen and instead of my toon running, the screen would transition like a Microsoft power point presentation, each second was in a different stance/location, rather than showing him run from point A to point B ( i really hope this makes sense)

It's really bad when my group and I are in dungeons, or when I am soloing dungeons or fighting in general. I start my fight and go through my bar rotation as per usual and it was all good. Now, since Summerset launched, I run through my bar rotation and end up getting mixed up with what is going on. The screen starts freezing, the fighting gets slower, my attacks are not registering/happening and before you know it, i'm dead from something that I shouldn't have died so easily from.

Hope what I am describing makes sense. But the lag (if that's even the right term) has been the worst I have seen since playing old mech warrior games on a home built computer form when I was a kid back in the mid 90's.