Infused or Robust for weapon damage?

Colecovision · June 2018

I'm considering transmuting from robust to infused for extra weapon damage, but will it actually help? I'd gain 88 weapon damage, but lose 840 stamina. I read in another thread that you get 1 weapon damage for every 10.6 stamina. Does that mean I'm already getting 78 weapon damage out of the robust trait? If so, the switch would only give me a net of 10 weapon damage and that's not a good trade off. Can someone clarify how this works?

Any other thoughts on transmuting to infused from robust when weapon damage is the goal?

idk · June 2018

I think you may have misunderstood the thread. There is an equivalent stamina to weapon damage and it is about 10.5 to 1, but stam itself does not add to the actual weapon damage. iirc. have not actually looked in a long time.

It is merely that the formulas use both WD and stam to calculate a skills damage but at different weights.

EDIT: just check and it is still the case that stamina does not affect weapon damage.

Reorx_Holybeard · June 2018

Don't forgot your bonuses to Weapon Damage (Major/Minor Brutality) and Stamina (CP, racial, passives, ...). Include these factors in your calculation and you should get a pretty good idea of the potential difference. I'd wager a guess that for most builds the difference would be minimal but a lot of ESO is combining a bunch of small differences to end up with a considerable one.

Chilly-McFreeze · June 2018

Better check it out on the UESP build editor first.

Colecovision · June 2018

idk wrote: »

I think you may have misunderstood the thread. There is an equivalent stamina to weapon damage and it is about 10.5 to 1, but stam itself does not add to the actual weapon damage. iirc. have not actually looked in a long time.

It is merely that the formulas use both WD and stam to calculate a skills damage but at different weights.

EDIT: just check and it is still the case that stamina does not affect weapon damage.

I definitely misunderstood the other thread, so thank you for clearing that up for me. But it looks like even though the weapon damage stat doesn't go up, it's still unclear as to weather or not it's worth losing 840 stamina to add 88 weapon damage when it comes to overall damage done.

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Better check it out on the UESP build editor first.

That's where I started, but it's broken right now. The searches show one item, but then the image and stats match a different item. Bone pirates currently points to the image and stats of Lamia's song. Ebon pops up for another stamina set.

Maybe I'll wait until there's more tests out there. Crystals are tough for me to come by.

exiars10 · June 2018

Gilliam posted in his video that Infused is just a tiny bit better then Robust, 100 DPS per trait which is a joke.

From 11.34:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfVv2KT4NVg

Gallagher563 · June 2018

From what I have read and seen in YouTube videos infused gives slightly more damage (500-1000 dps with 40k+ dps) but at the loss of some sustain. Also if you are doing 35k+ dps you probably already have a good rotation and probably sustain fairly well so the loss of some sustain won't be as detrimental as it would be to someone who is just learning a rotation.

Colecovision · June 2018

yikes... Definitely not worth it.

Thank you for all the feedback.

JAwtunes · June 2018

I find it slightly better on one of my stam burst builds, but that's due to additional passive WD bonuses from class and fighters guild skill lines. I think my burst damage increased by about 0.6% when I switched a gold neck from robust to infused. Better than nothing I suppose.

Iselin · June 2018

It is hardly worth the effort: infused gives you a very small amount of extra DPS at the cost of some sustain. It's a classic case of "six of one, half a dozen of the other"

Chilly-McFreeze · June 2018

Intersting. So on "meta-builds" it's not really worth it. Probably only really benefits some niché pelinals-builds then.

Iselin · June 2018

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Intersting. So on "meta-builds" it's not really worth it. Probably only really benefits some niché pelinals-builds then.

Yup. Pelinals hybrid builds is about the only clear cut case where infused is a benefit and even then only for the abilities you might use that need the copied stat to be boosted. That's typically any magicka based damage ability or weapon you might use with your build since most times with Pelinals you stack weapon damage and any stamina abilities or weapons get the boost from both weapon power and stamina. It's a wash for those abilities.

Gallagher563 · June 2018

The real benefits to infused comes from cost reduction and recovery. If you have trouble with sustain throw on one infused with a cost reduction and all sustain problems go away. Might also be good for tanks as well.

AEAltadoonPadhome · June 2018

For Argonian tanks, infused potion cooldown reduction seems to be a thing. With 3 infused pot CD glyphs, you can use twice as many potions as without.
Especially since you can stack different pots, such as tri pots and lingering health+vitality, and you can keep both up 100% of the time.

Asardes · June 2018

Depends on class, race, what skills you have on your bar etc. so there isn't a straight forward answer. All skills as well as basic attacks now scale with weapon power which is maximum stamina/10.5 + weapon damage. So you can say that 10.5 stamina is roughly equal to 1 weapon damage. Note that Templar skill Power of the Light will only scale on maximum stamina. Stamina builds generally have a higher multiplier for weapon damage than maximum stamina, but there are some where things are pretty close.

Stamina gets:
up to 20% from CP - capped at 100 CP invested in the Thief
up to 10% from racial bonuses - Redguard and Imperial have the highest
8% from slotting Bound Armaments on a stamina Sorcerer
up to 6% from Undaunted Mettle if you are using 1/5/1 setup
So between 1.22-1.44 depending on race, class, and gear

Weapon damage gets:
12% from Agility if you're using at least 5 pieces of Medium armor
8% from slotting Flawless Dawnbreaker and 3% more for each additional Fighters Guild skill slotted from Slayer passive
20% from Major Brutality from various sources
5% from Minor Brutality - if you have a DK in group casting an Earthen Heart skill every 20s for Eternal Mountain passive
6% if you are a Templar from Balanced Warrior passive or
2% for each Sorcerer skill slotted from Expert Mage passive (was bugged, giving only about 1%, not sure if fixed)
So between 1.40-1.51 depending on your class and group composition. PvP builds that use heavy armor and use DboS instead have an even lower multiplier, 1.23-1.28, meaning that for those builds robust is clearly better.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · June 2018

AEAltadoonPadhome wrote: »

For Argonian tanks, infused potion cooldown reduction seems to be a thing. With 3 infused pot CD glyphs, you can use twice as many potions as without.
Especially since you can stack different pots, such as tri pots and lingering health+vitality, and you can keep both up 100% of the time.

The best sustain for tanks is still sheild play.

. JEWELRY TRAITS

Here is the big deal for you. What trait to use? Should you go with Triune or Infused or Harmony or what? I already answered this in another discussion about this topic and will copy paste it here.

Here is the calculation for block cost if you use Infused jewelry with Shield Play enchants:
We have 574 Block Cost with 8 Sturdy, Fortress, 100 Shadow Ward and no Shield Play enchants.
325 is the Infused Shield Play enchant.
[ 1760 - ( 325 * 3 ) ] - ( 0.68 (8 sturdy) * 0.64 (Fortress) * 0.75 (100 Shadow Ward) ) = 256 Stamina per block (574-256 = 318 per second assuming you block once every second)
And this is the no-Infused calculation:
[ 1760 - ( 203 * 3 ) ] - ( 0.68 (8 Sturdy) * 0.64 (Fortress) * 0.75 (100 Shadow Ward) ) = 375 Stamina per block (574-375 = 199 per second assuming you block once every second)
So the difference is about 120 stamina per block. So yeah, it is quite decent .

Infused can also be used with Stamina Cost Reduction.
Assuming you use Pierce Armour and Heroic Slash every 10 seconds , here is the benefit of Stamina cost reduction)
1531 , 2673 , no enchant = 4204
1349 , 2491 , 1 enchant = 3840 > 364 stamina saved every 10 seconds, 36 per second
1166 , 2308 , 2 enchants = 3474 > 730 stamina saved every 10 seconds, 73 per second
983 , 2125 , 3 enchants = 3108 > 1096 stamina saved every 10 seconds, 110 per second

And here is the same thing with Infused jewelry:
1238 , 2380 , 1 enchant = 3618 > 586 Stamina saved every 10 seconds, 58.6 per second
945 , 2088 , 2 enchants = 3033 > 1171 Stamina saved every 10 seconds, 117.1 per second
653 , 1795 , 3 enchants = 2448 > 1756 Stamina saved every 10 seconds, 175.6 per second

Another sustain tool is Harmony.
You can get a shard/orb every 20 seconds, restoring 3960 Stamina.

No Harmony > 3960 / 20 = 198 Stamina per second.
1 Harmony > 5346 / 20 =267 Stamina per second. (69 Stamina per second)
2 Harmony > 6732 / 20 = 337 Stamina per second. (139 Stamina per second)
3 Harmony > 8118 / 20 = 406 stamina per second. (208 Stamina per second)

To sum it up, Shield-Play still rules at sustaining as long as you block once every second but not necessarily when combined with Infused. Using Harmony jewelry combined with Shield-Play will give you better sustain overall. Harmony jewelry added 208 Stamina per second while Infused added only 120. Keep in mind that this calculation assumes that you block once every second. If you block twice or more per second, Infused combined with Shield-Play will outperform everything. If there is no blocking at all, 3 Harmony + 3 Stamina Cost Reduction will give best results. It all depends on content you'll be getting into.

From here- https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/410521/pve-tanking-discussion-for-summerset

JAwtunes · June 2018

Asardes wrote: »

Depends on class, race, what skills you have on your bar etc. so there isn't a straight forward answer. All skills as well as basic attacks now scale with weapon power which is maximum stamina/10.5 + weapon damage. So you can say that 10.5 stamina is roughly equal to 1 weapon damage. Note that Templar skill Power of the Light will only scale on maximum stamina. Stamina builds generally have a higher multiplier for weapon damage than maximum stamina, but there are some where things are pretty close.

Stamina gets:
up to 20% from CP - capped at 100 CP invested in the Thief
up to 10% from racial bonuses - Redguard and Imperial have the highest
8% from slotting Bound Armaments on a stamina Sorcerer
up to 6% from Undaunted Mettle if you are using 1/5/1 setup
So between 1.22-1.44 depending on race, class, and gear

Weapon damage gets:
12% from Agility if you're using at least 5 pieces of Medium armor
8% from slotting Flawless Dawnbreaker and 3% more for each additional Fighters Guild skill slotted from Slayer passive
20% from Major Brutality from various sources
5% from Minor Brutality - if you have a DK in group casting an Earthen Heart skill every 20s for Eternal Mountain passive
6% if you are a Templar from Balanced Warrior passive or
2% for each Sorcerer skill slotted from Expert Mage passive (was bugged, giving only about 1%, not sure if fixed)
So between 1.40-1.51 depending on your class and group composition. PvP builds that use heavy armor and use DboS instead have an even lower multiplier, 1.23-1.28, meaning that for those builds robust is clearly better.

Excellent!
I get a WD modifier a little higher the 1.51 on my sNB due to the NB passive buff when in sneak or invisible (10%) and Cont. Attack (10%). These are both obv. pvp orientated, and the former only relevant to niche builds, but worth noting.

Jsmalls · June 2018

Think it should also be started that infused gold jewellery gives about 100 weapon damage versus 870 stamina
So that stamina stat is roughly 83 "damage" before multipliers compared to 100 "damage" before multipliers.

Then as stated you can get up to 1.51 (actually 1.61 including continuous attack). In my eyes weapon damage infused glyphs are the way to go for stamina classes.

So just doing a rough sketch of the math Robust: 870x3=2610, 2610x1.3=3393, 3393÷10.5=323
Infused: 101x3=303, 303x1.4=424

Expensive right now but gives 100 more "damage".

As a magicka Sorc forced into Arcane (don't set me on fire I know we're OP this patch

) I'd like the ability to run Max spell damage but doing so would gimp my defenses and arcane scales a lot better than infused for my class.i guess it's cool that running different things makes sense for different builds.

Asardes · June 2018

I made the comment from a PvE perspective since the topic is not in the PvP section, but for PvP things are even more skewed towards high weapon damage as opposed to high maximum stamina. On one hand, as other people pointed out you get 10% from Assault: Continuous Attack, and on top of that you can have another 5%/10% if you have 1/2 enemy offensive scrolls captured. For the same reason I didn't consider the Master Assassin passive since that only applies to your first attack, but it does matter for a ganking build. On the other hand, if you play BG or no-CP Cyrodiil campaign, your stat multiplier is much smaller, since you don't benefit from CP. So stacking weapon damage is definitely a winner.